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Post #529481  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:15 pm 
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Emile Smith Rowe easily our best player today

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Post #529482  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:16 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Some heroic defensive performances but it felt more like a relegation team parking the bus than two heavyweights slugging it out.

This is probably true, but considering how we outplayed them at times in our home win I'd say we've done our part against Chelsea this season!


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Post #529483  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 pm 
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So we've beaten 3 of the top 4 away from home.

We're probably not as good a team as wins away to Man U and chelsea say, but equally we aren't as bad a team as taking 1 point from burnley and drawing at home to fulham and southampton

Away from home our points total is something that would fare well against any top 4 placed team over the last few years I'd bet - but lots of teams have been better away from home this year.

30 points away from home you'd take again next season. You'd think you could/should get 40 points at home, 70 points total has you in the mix for top 4


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Post #529484  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:17 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Well well well. Did not see that result.
Smith-Rowe scored the winner but he was also fantastic all game.

We actually have a spine of the team who suit that kind of backs to the walls effort, Holding, Mari, Elneny, Partey.

You can look at the performance in two ways.
negative: totally dominated by chelsea, shows how far to get to their level
positive: restricted chelsea to maybe 1 shot on target all second half, defended well and found a way to win against a team who clearly have better players than us


Smith Rowe was excellent, shades of Grealish in the way he moves with the ball.

I think Holding is a lot better than many give him credit for.

Elneny did well too.


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Post #529485  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:21 pm 
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Everything went for us tonight from the Havertz miss onwards. Still, we did show a lot of character and kudos for that.


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Post #529486  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Well, didn't see that coming. Welcome surprised even though it could have easily been a loss. How we kept a clean sheet I have no idea.

I've thought Holding had upside potential ever since that cup final against Chelsea a few years back. Oxade-Chamberlain said "he bossed it' at the back in his first cup final. Pers played great, best defender on the pitch possibly that day but he's a german international, he's expected. Holding wasn't expected to and did great in a big game. Since then we've seen him regress but rose again in stature when given a run of games.

At the risk of sounding like a party pooper, I wouldn't make any more out of it than it is. We beat a good team with a combination of us playing well, the opposition making mistakes they normally wouldn't and a bit of luck.
We are capable of beating any side in the league on our day. So, has sides lower the table have done against the top sides.

This game should be one that instills belief and hopefully have the players buy in to the project. It certainly doesn't mean we've turned a corner. Far from it.

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Post #529487  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:32 pm 
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Smith Rowe. Well played sir.
Can’t believe we won but second half we defended very well.


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Post #529488  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:35 pm 
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Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.


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Post #529489  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:39 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.

He's been inconsistent for sure, but the West Ham game alone is almost enough for me to want to sign him permanently. There's quality there, and he's at the perfect age for us when trying to rebuild the team in my opinion.


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Post #529490  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:43 pm 
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The Guardian said Chelsea were insipid and that Arsenal were deserved winners?


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Post #529491  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:47 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.


Not £50m for me, unless its part of a £200m splurge :laughing7:


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Post #529492  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:50 pm 
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Bored wrote:
The Guardian said Chelsea were insipid and that Arsenal were deserved winners?


Wouldn’t disagree.


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Post #529493  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:51 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.

He's been inconsistent for sure, but the West Ham game alone is almost enough for me to want to sign him permanently. There's quality there, and he's at the perfect age for us when trying to rebuild the team in my opinion.


That’s one good game from several he’s played though right ?

I suppose it depends on the fee 25 to 30 and maybe worth a bite but they are going to ask for 40 or 50


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Post #529494  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:53 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
When chelsea wallop us later rather than focus on us watch their midfield 3 and how they distribute the ball. The problem story of our season in my opinion (which had many)

I think we need to get Arteta a couple more midfielders then if he has better players in the midfield but still is making over indulgent and pretentious decisions like the ones seen recently then he can get booted around Christmas

Oh well the Kroenke can sleep better now, knowing there is no need to invest in the squad

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Post #529495  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:23 pm 
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Great win
Didnt envisage that at all.
Real backs to the wall.
Need to win our last 2 and hope others slip up.
Just checked the table and incredibly only 3 points behind west ham though they have a game in hand.
A defeat and 2 draws for them and 2 wins for us and we would finish above them by a point.
Absolutely ridiculous considering they were going seriously for top 4.
Only a point behind spurs now.
Need Everton and liverpool to both lose tomorrow.


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Post #529496  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:49 pm 
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DHD wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
My accent range is east London, west London, Liverpool, Irish, the poorest Geordie, a poor Glaswegian accent. I also do regional American accents. I've always been a decent mimic growing up. I have great Vito Corleone, Darth Vader and a few other voices that I immodestly say are pretty darn good.


Those long winter nights must fly by round your gaff, AG.

Just recalling AG awhile back mentioning an obnoxious Chelsea fan at the Cock n Bull, not certain if the one he mentioned here is the same though. No point bothering with assorted accents.

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Post #529497  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Zed wrote:
For Leno it's either way obviously which way he goes.
May have something to do with the GK coach Inaki Cana. Reports suggest Leno's form has dipped and he's made a few errors in games lately, of course. Cana is a concern among a few players apparently. Arteta brought Cana to Arsenal in 2019.

And it was on Cana’s recommendation that we bought runnarsson to the club, despite all his latest stats showing he was not the required standard

It certainly was Rünarsson.

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Post #529498  Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:28 pm 
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The commentator throughout the match tried to add some unlikely scenario we just might squeak by with European football if we win and this and that happens, the euro does this, Saturn does that and a butterfly flaps its wings in Singapore.

We're not playing European football next season. Yeah, numerically we're in it with a shout but I doubt it.

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Post #529499  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:11 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.


I rather we do not sign him. I think Willock is a better bet right now after his Newcastle stint.

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Post #529500  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:13 am 
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Kudos to Leno in yesterday's game. He was good.

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Post #529501  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:20 am 
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Thinking about it, I should have more faith in our moving up the table a little. We are in a decent position. We are among 2 or 3 teams whose fortunes can go up or down on each result. We'll see what happens. All we can do is win our games and the football gods decide the rest.

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Post #529502  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:07 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
The commentator throughout the match tried to add some unlikely scenario we just might squeak by with European football if we win and this and that happens, the euro does this, Saturn does that and a butterfly flaps its wings in Singapore.

We're not playing European football next season. Yeah, numerically we're in it with a shout but I doubt it.

Depends what you mean by European football. https://www.skysports.com/share/12304202

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Post #529503  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:49 am 
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Table since Christmas.


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Post #529504  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:43 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Not sure on Ødegaard. Think he flatters to deceive a little and certainly doesn’t look like a 50 million pound type signing.


I rather we do not sign him. I think Willock is a better bet right now after his Newcastle stint.

They're different players I think. We've seen Willock try to operate as a No.10 and it doesn't suit him, he needs the ball in front of him to run on to. Ødegaard is a superior creator in that sense but Willock looks better at making those late runs and being a goal threat.
If we can get Ødegaard on loan for another season I'd take it as it allows us to divert funds to other areas of the team, we can't afford to spend £50m on Ødegaard. At that price I'd be more tempted to go for Buendia at £40m


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Post #529505  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:46 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Table since Christmas.

and yet our form doesn't feel like we're a top 3 team since Christmas. What it does show is how congested a lot of teams are, a few good/bad results in the season are the difference of 4-5 places.
We're certainly not as bad as some of the results we've had this season, but Liverpool would say the same with some of their home defeats - and I'm sure anyone finishing 5th to 9th will point to 4 games where they really should have picked up another 10 points which would have had them in the top 4.


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Post #529506  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:54 am 
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Arteta was very stern in his post match chat, calling out the media for misrepresenting his quotes. I think he took the reporter asking the questions by surprise because once he said what he did the reporter knew he had to keep asking him about that topic but didn't seem prepared and Arteta was just angry and silent waiting for the next question. I liked it. BUT, do it once and don't make it a running theme, because if you keep calling out the media they'll just come back twice as hard and you'll never win.


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Post #529507  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:18 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Table since Christmas.

and yet our form doesn't feel like we're a top 3 team since Christmas. What it does show is how congested a lot of teams are, a few good/bad results in the season are the difference of 4-5 places.
We're certainly not as bad as some of the results we've had this season, but Liverpool would say the same with some of their home defeats - and I'm sure anyone finishing 5th to 9th will point to 4 games where they really should have picked up another 10 points which would have had them in the top 4.

The margins are small right

If Xhaka didn’t get sent off at Burnley and the ref didn’t give that ridiculous penalty at Wolves we would be 5th right now and there would be a totally different atmosphere around Arsenal.

Despite our problems my feeling is our bad start was a bit of an anomaly and if we had Ødegaard and Emile Smith Rowe raring to go at the start of the season it might have been a different story.


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Post #529508  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:03 am 
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Post #529509  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:11 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
and yet our form doesn't feel like we're a top 3 team since Christmas. What it does show is how congested a lot of teams are, a few good/bad results in the season are the difference of 4-5 places.
We're certainly not as bad as some of the results we've had this season, but Liverpool would say the same with some of their home defeats - and I'm sure anyone finishing 5th to 9th will point to 4 games where they really should have picked up another 10 points which would have had them in the top 4.

The margins are small right

If Xhaka didn’t get sent off at Burnley and the ref didn’t give that ridiculous penalty at Wolves we would be 5th right now and there would be a totally different atmosphere around Arsenal.

Despite our problems my feeling is our bad start was a bit of an anomaly and if we had Ødegaard and Emile Smith Rowe raring to go at the start of the season it might have been a different story.

The two Burnley games are the ones that really stick out for me. We were in control and looking likely to win the game at home, the red card cost us 3 points. Away from home a terrible error from Xhaka and then a terrible one from the ref to not give the penalty for handball.
We've only been well beaten 6 times I'd say, Villa at home, Spurs away and both games v Liverpool and City. The other 7 defeats have been touch and go, small margins - but equally we've had some wins that were very tight.

I suspect every team has their own 'nearly' or 'if only' moments this season so we are rightfully where we are on merit


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Post #529510  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:21 am 
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So what is left to play for? The slim chance of 7th (or even 6th!) and Europa Conference League football next year?
To catch Spurs we need them to take a maximum of 4 points from the last 3 games v Wolves(h), Villa (h), Leicester (a). AND, for us to take 2 wins from Palace (a) and Brighton (h). If that happened we'd pip them by a point

We'd also need Everton to take only 6 points from their 4 remaining fixtures, Villa (a), Sheff Utd (h), Wolves (h), City (a)

if West Ham only take 3 points from their last 3 games Brighton(a), West Brom (a), Southampton (h) then we would overtake them as well if we win our 2 games

How much of any of that is feasible? I'd give that a very, very slim chance of happening and can see us finishing 9th as the most likely position


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Post #529511  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:54 am 
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Next seasons away short is pretty smart


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Post #529512  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 1:18 pm 
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Arsenal have a 5 year contract on the table for Smith Rowe - lets hope we can get him signed up. Real break through season for him. We need to allow him to grow, same with Saka who is even younger, they have carried us too often this season.


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Post #529513  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:17 pm 
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Right now Smith Rowe and Saka have a bit of Charlie George about them. Came up through the youth system and are living their biggest dream.

However, at some point, they will want to win things. Kane wants to win things, so he's seriously considering leaving the club he loves. Not everyone is Le Tissier, where just playing for the club you love almost as much life is itself is enough.

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Post #529514  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 2:39 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Right now Smith Rowe and Saka have a bit of Charlie George about them. .

An obvious connection eh ?

Hey ever wondered if Kanye West and Fred West are related ?


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Post #529515  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:41 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Right now Smith Rowe and Saka have a bit of Charlie George about them. .

An obvious connection eh ?

Hey ever wondered if Kanye West and Fred West are related ?

Charlie George (from Islington) and Smith Rowe (from Croydon) were boyhood Arsenal fans. Saka (from Ealing) didn’t support Arsenal. He actually supported Newcastle because his dad supported them.


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Post #529516  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:07 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
The commentator throughout the match tried to add some unlikely scenario we just might squeak by with European football if we win and this and that happens, the euro does this, Saturn does that and a butterfly flaps its wings in Singapore.

We're not playing European football next season. Yeah, numerically we're in it with a shout but I doubt it.

Depends what you mean by European football. https://www.skysports.com/share/12304202


I'm guessing American Gooner hasn't looked at the table recently.

More generally, its actually silly how people buy into particular narratives, and just stick to them, regardless of facts. Flat-earthers and conspiracy junkies aren't the only ones who do this.

Spurs have to win two of their last three to be sure of finishing ahead of us. Everton likewise. They just dropped another 2 points thanks in part to Martinez's heroics. And I wouldn't bet against us winning both of our remaining games.

Sure we're still third favourites to finish 7th, but even if we miss out, we're probably going to end up very close to Spurs and Liverpool in the table. We had a terrible first half of the season, and shot ourselves in the foot in Europe, but actually we haven't been nearly as poor this season as people make out.

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Post #529517  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:11 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Next seasons away short is pretty smart

Good to hear. But I trust they come with two legs?

The shirt looks nice too.

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Post #529518  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:20 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
and yet our form doesn't feel like we're a top 3 team since Christmas. What it does show is how congested a lot of teams are, a few good/bad results in the season are the difference of 4-5 places.
We're certainly not as bad as some of the results we've had this season, but Liverpool would say the same with some of their home defeats - and I'm sure anyone finishing 5th to 9th will point to 4 games where they really should have picked up another 10 points which would have had them in the top 4.

The margins are small right

If Xhaka didn’t get sent off at Burnley and the ref didn’t give that ridiculous penalty at Wolves we would be 5th right now and there would be a totally different atmosphere around Arsenal.

Despite our problems my feeling is our bad start was a bit of an anomaly and if we had Ødegaard and Emile Smith Rowe raring to go at the start of the season it might have been a different story.

Exactly, which is why I disagree with your argument that we need a major squad overhaul. I think we are evolving in the right direction.

The fact that we've had two players from the academy establish themselves (Saka probably was 70% there already after last season) and a quite a batch more that really look promising, is also massive.

Getting on par with City, United Chelsea and Liverpool will be a tall order, mind you.

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Post #529519  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:00 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Table since Christmas.

Very interesting.

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Post #529520  Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:19 pm 
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Maybe it hurts us technically table wise, haven't bothered to look, but I always cheer for Liverpool over Man Utd.
The very first match I can recall ever hearing about in English football. I vaguely recall as a little kid on American news, the sports section, seeing cops on horses and masses of people having to walk down a gauntlet and the commentator saying it had to be done for safety. The commentator and all of us wondering why all this over a game. Like 'really? Is it that serious?'. Came to understand 'yes, it is'..lol.

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