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Post #530761  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:54 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yeah they rejected the first offer because they want more than Xhaka is likely to cost :58big-emoticons:

Great example

A 21-year old players value decreasing with about £20m after he's had a great season is a pretty decent example of a market that isn't quite all right, yes.


Ah so he was worth 40 million last summer. Yeah right !


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Post #530762  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:57 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
A 21-year old players value decreasing with about £20m after he's had a great season is a pretty decent example of a market that isn't quite all right, yes.


Ah so he was worth 40 million last summer. Yeah right !

Eh? Last year it was widely reported Dortmund wanted £100m for Sancho. Now it's reported they'd let him go for £80m.


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Post #530763  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
I think we're fine with the number of non-homegrown players in our squad actually - most of the players leaving (Luiz, Xhaka, Guendouzi, Ceballos, Ryan, Ødegaard, probably Willian) are not homegrown, so that leaves plenty of squad space for more non-homegrown players.

But speaking of homegrown players, there are some rumblings from The Athletic that we're targeting Ben White from Brighton to strengthen our defense. Consensus among Arsenal fans are probably that CB isn't a priority, but I'm all for it. Think he's an excellent young CB, and he's looked better on the ball than any of our current CBs when I've seen him play. Only 23 as well. Holding had his best season for us, but to me he just isn't a guy we should rely too much on if we're aiming to make it back into the top four. Better suited to a team in the lower half of the table in my opinion.

The problem with this is most of the players who could leave and generate decent money ARE the home -grown players....Nketiah, Willock, Maitland-Niles - even Nelson.

Those 7 non home grown players you list above, 3 of them are loan returns, Luiz goes for free, I cant see anyone paying a transfer fee for Willian, Roma have only bid £13m for Xhaka and Guendouzi is looking like a £10m sale.

The 4 home grown players I put above should be able to generate over £50m eve in a depressed market


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Post #530764  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:02 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Ah so he was worth 40 million last summer. Yeah right !

Eh? Last year it was widely reported Dortmund wanted £100m for Sancho. Now it's reported they'd let him go for £80m.

Ah your talking about Sancho and not lokonga.

They probably asked for 100 million cause they never wanted to sell him at that point. Anyway it’s not quite selling a player for less than half the market price for a similar player in his position.


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Post #530765  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:05 pm 
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Reading a lot of stories that Arsenal are really keen on James Maddison from Leicester. I like him as a player but I can't see how we can afford him. Why would Leicester sell for anything under £50m - it is what they do.

Unless there is a yet to be known cash injection I don't think us signing any £50m player is the right way to go. I reckon we need at least 8-10 new players, £50m sucks too much out of the budget. I think we should be shopping in the under £25m range and looking at the bargains we can pick up from clubs either in deep debt or players entering the last year of their deal.


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Post #530766  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:09 pm 
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https://le-grove.co.uk/2021/06/15/data- ... long-read/

This is a good read on the re-shaping of our midfield.
It also shows how good Partey is and how good he is against a whole load of midfielders we're linked with. Watching Partey last year I thought he had an up and down season disrupted by injury but some of the stats - and this covers all sorts of defensive and attacking stats you'd expect good central mids to have - show that he was generally excellent.


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Post #530767  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:13 pm 
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Rich wrote:
The problem with this is most of the players who could leave and generate decent money ARE the home -grown players....Nketiah, Willock, Maitland-Niles - even Nelson.

Those 7 non home grown players you list above, 3 of them are loan returns, Luiz goes for free, I cant see anyone paying a transfer fee for Willian, Roma have only bid £13m for Xhaka and Guendouzi is looking like a £10m sale.

The 4 home grown players I put above should be able to generate over £50m eve in a depressed market

Yes, but we can sell all those players you listed and still be fine. I don't see Chambers, Holding, Saka, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli going anywhere, we might add Balogun and Azeez to the first team squad and then there's Saliba. With those eight players plus 17 non-homegrown we have a squad of 25 players.


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Post #530768  Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:25 pm 
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Rich wrote:
https://le-grove.co.uk/2021/06/15/data-dive-into-the-arsenal-midfield-puzzle-long-read/

This is a good read on the re-shaping of our midfield.
It also shows how good Partey is and how good he is against a whole load of midfielders we're linked with. Watching Partey last year I thought he had an up and down season disrupted by injury but some of the stats - and this covers all sorts of defensive and attacking stats you'd expect good central mids to have - show that he was generally excellent.

He wasn't "generally excellent" at all. He was a disappointment. The injuries clearly played a part and we know he is a talented player, but his performance last season was mediocre. I hope and expect that he will be much better next season.

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Post #530769  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:26 am 
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Rich wrote:
Reading a lot of stories that Arsenal are really keen on James Maddison from Leicester. I like him as a player but I can't see how we can afford him. Why would Leicester sell for anything under £50m - it is what they do.

Unless there is a yet to be known cash injection I don't think us signing any £50m player is the right way to go. I reckon we need at least 8-10 new players, £50m sucks too much out of the budget. I think we should be shopping in the under £25m range and looking at the bargains we can pick up from clubs either in deep debt or players entering the last year of their deal.

I don't mind us spending big on the right player, but I don't think Maddison is it. He's good, but not great, and I don't see him improving much from here. There's also questions about his injury history and attitude. Would much rather spend that type of money on Ødegaard who at least has the potential to be elite.


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Post #530770  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:20 am 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
https://le-grove.co.uk/2021/06/15/data-dive-into-the-arsenal-midfield-puzzle-long-read/

This is a good read on the re-shaping of our midfield.
It also shows how good Partey is and how good he is against a whole load of midfielders we're linked with. Watching Partey last year I thought he had an up and down season disrupted by injury but some of the stats - and this covers all sorts of defensive and attacking stats you'd expect good central mids to have - show that he was generally excellent.

He wasn't "generally excellent" at all. He was a disappointment. The injuries clearly played a part and we know he is a talented player, but his performance last season was mediocre. I hope and expect that he will be much better next season.

That's where what your eyes see and what the stats show can be quite different. I wouldn't say he was 'mediocre', when he played well he was by far the best midfielder on the pitch but also had some sloppy games, but the stats show that he was one of the higher performing midfielders in Europe last year and better than many of the highly rated CM seemingly on the market for the biggest teams this summer.


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Post #530771  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:21 am 
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Prem fixtures come out at 9am today.....if that is still exciting to anyone


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Post #530772  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:15 am 
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First 6 fixtures of the new season. Really tough start again. It seems like we have played a couple of really big sides in our opening handful of fixtures for a number of years running now
14/08 - Brentford (A)
21/08 - Chelsea (H)
28/08 - Man City (A)
18/09 - Burnley (A)
11/09 - Norwich (H)
25/09 - Tottenham (H)


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Post #530773  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:36 am 
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Top 6 sides we've had to play in the opening 6 fixtures for the past 4 seasons. Compare to Man U who don't play a top 6 side until they face Leicester in week 8.

18/19:
MCI (h)
CHE (a)

19/20:
LIV (a)
TOT (h)
UTD (a)

20/21:
LIV (a)
MCI (a)
UTD (a)

21/22:
CHE (h)
MCI (a)
TOT (h)


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Post #530774  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:44 am 
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Looks like a tough start. Then I looked beyond that and kept seeing tough matches. Then I realised that we now have a lot of tough matches because we’re not very good right now.

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Post #530775  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:22 am 
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I wish I was more confident that we're going to be back to 60,000 crowds and proper away fan presence. Seems like a pretty big leap from where we are now.

With only the Carabou Cup to distract us up to Christmas - and those 4 games needn't involve key players - there's no real excuse for non-performance. Well, apart from being a *%^@ team, of course. There's always that one.


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Post #530776  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:38 am 
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We always get a tough start for some reason.


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Post #530777  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
He wasn't "generally excellent" at all. He was a disappointment. The injuries clearly played a part and we know he is a talented player, but his performance last season was mediocre. I hope and expect that he will be much better next season.

That's where what your eyes see and what the stats show can be quite different. I wouldn't say he was 'mediocre', when he played well he was by far the best midfielder on the pitch but also had some sloppy games, but the stats show that he was one of the higher performing midfielders in Europe last year and better than many of the highly rated CM seemingly on the market for the biggest teams this summer.


I thought he played well to be honest it’s just that he didn’t come across like the Kante type transformational midfielder. I’d like to see him for a second season with better players in the middle of the park. Also it was worth pointing out his dominant performance at Old Trafford where I hadn’t seen a player dominate the park for us like that since Patrick Vieira.

Feels like there’s more to come from him.


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Post #530778  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am 
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The ACN means we will miss our African players for Burnley at home and Spurs away I think. It seems like those are the only games missed because of the mini winter break window in the league


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Post #530779  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:44 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Looks like a tough start. Then I looked beyond that and kept seeing tough matches. Then I realised that we now have a lot of tough matches because we’re not very good right now.

That’s worthy of a smiley.

To be honest I sometimes think it’s beneficial to have a tough start as it gets some difficult fixtures over and done with. In theory shouldn’t that make periods later in the season more comfortable? I can’t help wondering If it’s too easy to see ourselves as hard done by all the time?


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Post #530780  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:03 pm 
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Ornstein reporting we've rejected a £25m bid from Villa for Smith-Rowe. Probably a sign that they know they will lose Grealish, if they're buying Buendia and trying to sign Smith-Rowe. We should not sell him under any circumstances of course.


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Post #530781  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:43 pm 
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Also reports that Brighton have rejected a £40m bid from us for Ben White. Hopefully it doesn't spell the end of Saliba's career with us, but I do like White a lot as a player.


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Post #530782  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:56 pm 
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Rich wrote:
First 6 fixtures of the new season. Really tough start again. It seems like we have played a couple of really big sides in our opening handful of fixtures for a number of years running now
14/08 - Brentford (A)
21/08 - Chelsea (H)
28/08 - Man City (A)
18/09 - Burnley (A)
11/09 - Norwich (H)
25/09 - Tottenham (H)

Tough start.....hmmm. If it's any consolation we're not the ones playing in any Euro comps, to be sandwiched in between those other tough games the clubs in the Euro comps do have. No freezing Thursday night's out in Belgrade.

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Post #530783  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:17 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Rich wrote:
First 6 fixtures of the new season. Really tough start again. It seems like we have played a couple of really big sides in our opening handful of fixtures for a number of years running now
14/08 - Brentford (A)
21/08 - Chelsea (H)
28/08 - Man City (A)
18/09 - Burnley (A)
11/09 - Norwich (H)
25/09 - Tottenham (H)

Tough start.....hmmm. If it's any consolation we're not the ones playing in any Euro comps, to be sandwiched in between those other tough games the clubs in the Euro comps do have. No freezing Thursday night's out in Belgrade.

Yep. We'll also enter the League Cup at the 2nd round stage instead of the 3rd round that all clubs in europe do


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Post #530784  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:21 pm 
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£40m rejected for Ben White
£25m bid from Villa for Smith-Rowe rejected.

The Villa bid is interesting. They must know that is a ridiculous bid. People can talk about whether we are a 'big' club or not but Villa bidding for a young english first team player from a bigger club for such a small amount - especially when they've just spent £40m on Buendia is just strange. If Arsenal made a bid like that (ie: £35m for Mason Mount) we'd be ridiculed - and have been in the past. "what are they smoking over there at The Emirates". I assume we'll react with more class publically but tell Villa to not bother coming back as this isn't a negotiation.

I think Villa are still on cloud 9 after seemingly 'beating' us to Buendia when they simply offered £10m more and agreed to a 10% sell on clause and want to try to underline their ambition to their fans by taking our place in the big club status. Or they've just very clearly shown their hand that they know Grealish is off.


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Post #530785  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:21 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Zed wrote:
Tough start.....hmmm. If it's any consolation we're not the ones playing in any Euro comps, to be sandwiched in between those other tough games the clubs in the Euro comps do have. No freezing Thursday night's out in Belgrade.

Yep. We'll also enter the League Cup at the 2nd round stage instead of the 3rd round that all clubs in europe do

Wow. This season is going to feel really weird after so long at the top table.

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Post #530786  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:31 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
Yep. We'll also enter the League Cup at the 2nd round stage instead of the 3rd round that all clubs in europe do

Wow. This season is going to feel really weird after so long at the top table.

Imagine how it feels for those of us that started following the club seriously in 1995.


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Post #530787  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:32 pm 
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With the home grown quota - or foreign limit - whichever way you prefer to look at it there really is the need for any top club to have the very best english players in their squad - otherwise you are carrying too many passengers.
This is a lot easier for mega rich clubs because these players come at a premium. But the academies of the top clubs are producing excellent young english players as well.

When you look at the current England squad and identify those young players not currently at a big club the list is: (I include the two Dortmund lads on the basis big english teams will want to sign them)
Johnstone
White
Bellingham
Phillips
Rice
Calvert-Lewin
Grealish
Sancho

No doubt that those 8 are very real targets for the big 6, and I'd expect most of them to end up at a big 6 club in the next year or two.


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Post #530788  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:46 pm 
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Rich wrote:
No doubt that those 8 are very real targets for the big 6, and I'd expect most of them to end up at a big 6 club in the next year or two.

Good point, and sadly you have to overpay to get English players. I think a deal for White could possibly be reached at around £45m which is too much for his current ability, but at least it's better than £80m for Maguire...


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Post #530789  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:06 pm 
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25 mil for Emile Smith Rowe, what a joke :1laughter:

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Post #530790  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:07 pm 
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So apparently we’ve bid £40m for White and at the same time are in the process of selling Mavropanos to Stuttgart for £7m.

Now, Mavropanos was one of the most promising young defenders in the Bundesliga last season, a regular starter for a relatively high profile club, getting plaudits for his performances and just capped for Greece.

Why are we asking a measly £7m. I’d expect to pay that for a young defender in the English League Two or Ligue 2 in France.


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Post #530791  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:08 pm 
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Ramsey nearly scored. Should have done better.

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Post #530792  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:11 pm 
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Good open match between Turkey & Wales. Turkey Captain Burak nearly scored.

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Post #530793  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:30 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Ramsey nearly scored. Should have done better.

Followed up by missing a sitter.

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Post #530794  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:40 pm 
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I like the movement from the Turkish players. Always moving the ball forward with one touch football.

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Post #530795  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:42 pm 
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socrates wrote:
So apparently we’ve bid £40m for White and at the same time are in the process of selling Mavropanos to Stuttgart for £7m.

Now, Mavropanos was one of the most promising young defenders in the Bundesliga last season, a regular starter for a relatively high profile club, getting plaudits for his performances and just capped for Greece.

Why are we asking a measly £7m. I’d expect to pay that for a young defender in the English League Two or Ligue 2 in France.

I think one thing that's being overlooked with Mavropanos is his injury record. By all accounts he was excellent for Stuttgart when he played, but he was once again hampered by injuries and only started 19 of 34 league games. Since his breakthrough season in Greece he has only played 56 games in 4 seasons, which isn't a whole lot - just 14 games per season, and a lot of that is down to him being injured.

If an English team was in for him we'd probably get £10m or more, but clubs in Europe are strapped for cash at the moment so I don't expect to get much more than the quoted £7m.


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Post #530796  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:43 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Ramsey nearly scored. Should have done better.

Followed up by missing a sitter.

Followed by scoring a sitter.

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Post #530797  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:43 pm 
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And now he's scored with a perfectly timed run and a neat finish.


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Post #530798  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:43 pm 
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And Ramsey scores on the third attempt! Always loved him as a player, and this is one of the reasons - no matter how many times he misses he never lets his head down and always keeps trying.


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Post #530799  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 4:44 pm 
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Ramsey scores

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Post #530800  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:00 pm 
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socrates wrote:
So apparently we’ve bid £40m for White and at the same time are in the process of selling Mavropanos to Stuttgart for £7m.

Now, Mavropanos was one of the most promising young defenders in the Bundesliga last season, a regular starter for a relatively high profile club, getting plaudits for his performances and just capped for Greece.

Why are we asking a measly £7m. I’d expect to pay that for a young defender in the English League Two or Ligue 2 in France.

I've said the same thing many times. Of course we don't know exactly what the 'asking prices' really are, but why are our asking prices reported so often consistently lower (or reasonable) than any other club.

I'm hearing we're interested in Ramsdale the Sheff Utd GK. The rumours say £20m but Sheff Utd bosses want £40m because of his england call up. Ramsdale has had back to back relegations and I didn't see anything in the last two seasons that suggests he's any more than a £10m GK. He's only in the England squad because of injuries to Pope and Henderson.

If the interested club is a prem club then it seems fair game to set the price sky high. So Nketiah has 3 english clubs after him, why aren't we saying it is £25m to start the bidding? Brewster and Solanke went for that sort of price and Nketiah has a better record than both at club and international level.


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