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Post #547481  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 5:43 am 
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Do we need strengthening? Absolutely, but its not why we are likely to lose the CL spot. Even in losing efforts we have looked good against Liverpool, Chelsea and City the past few months. Not many if they are honest saw the Chelsea and Man Utd wins coming. In my opinion, the 10 men down, 0-0 draw vs Liverpool was our best effort.

We have it in us obviously. We are just too bleeding inconsistent. Newcastle was first to every ball, they were far more committed. Eddie Howe did a fantastic job but he's been a manager people have been saying is destined for bigger things.

The losses, the tough ones, the ones we should have won the last couple months based on how we did against the top 3 and the fact we didn't have a lot of other obligations. We could more or less focus solely on the league.

Its something that has permeated the club through 3 managers over several years. We can't get the squad to be consistent. The invincibles didn't always show up for matchest but they were so bleeding good, they could turn any game on a dime (pence maybe to you lot).

The players we are talking about getting as fans or linked to in the media are good and all that but it won't do any good if that intangible lack of consistency and fight isn't addressed. Arteta must see it. Emery did as well.

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Post #547482  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 5:47 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
We need to sort out the ability to come from behind in games. We've only won points twice when coming from behind in a game. Palace and Wolves at home.

We actually drew 2-2 at home to Crystal Palace. I suppose to put your point (I imagine made more relevant by the Palace result not being a win) in context, how common is coming from behind to win games? It’s presumably more common than the times Arsenal do it, by bigger clubs anyway. But knowing how common it is, which I’ve no idea about, would help to give your view some context.

Our other two draws were 0-0, so we came from behind 3 times in 37 matches. Another noticeable, and perhaps related, tendency this season is when we lose, we tend to lose by more than one goal. If I have counted correctly, 8 out of our 13 league losses have been by a margin of more than one goal. So when we go behind, we tend to do the opposite of coming back. We came back 3 times, went further behind 8 times.

For a club in the top 5 one would expect a better ratio, I'd imagine.

On the other hand, we were pretty good at holding leads when we had them.

One would need to go through each game to get a clearer sense of why, but I imagine the large number of losses, and losses by more than a goal, were more to do with playing with a depleted team that anything else.

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Post #547483  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:08 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
There are lots of suggestions on players to improve our squad on here. But what does the team look like after this. Lets look at Bissouma: does he replace Ødegaard or Xhaka or Partey. He has 111 EPL appearances for 3 goals according to his wikpedia profile. Is he an improvement. Jesus : does he replace Martnelli or Saka - probably Martenelli. How good is he defensively? Playing with Man City it isn't possible to tell.

Bissouma is a defensive midfielder. Not sure why he'd replace Ødegaard or why goals is the only stat worth looking into.

Gabriel Jesus would surely be signed primarily for the CF spot. I disagree with Bernard that he's a weak link for City. Recently he's been one of their best performers, and has been widely praised for his play. City fans seem generally gutted he might be leaving.


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Post #547484  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:37 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
We need to sort out the ability to come from behind in games. We've only won points twice when coming from behind in a game. Palace and Wolves at home.

We actually drew 2-2 at home to Crystal Palace. I suppose to put your point (I imagine made more relevant by the Palace result not being a win) in context, how common is coming from behind to win games? It’s presumably more common than the times Arsenal do it, by bigger clubs anyway. But knowing how common it is, which I’ve no idea about, would help to give your view some context.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier ... bewerb/GB1
This table shows all the points won from losing positions. We’re second last ahead of Norwich. City are quite low but only because they rarely fall behind.

On my original post I meant points won from losing positions rather than victories from losing positions which is why it is 4 points, palace and Wolves. The on other time we even got an equaliser was Man U away when we went from 2-1 down to 2-2 but eventually lost 3-2


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Post #547485  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:19 am 
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Hi Rich,

If you look at the PL table we've scored 56 and conceded 47, compared to Tottenham 64 and 40 and Chelsea 73 and 31.

We don't score enough goals and we concede too many.

The fact that we find it hard to come from behind is in part due to the fact that we aren't prolific chance creators and scorers, we don't have a proven CF and we don't have many gamechangers. I think the team senses this. We have to work incredibly hard to get our goals (how many scrappy tap-ins do we get) whilst always being vulnerable to conceding. It makes us nervy and dejected when we do concede.

We've actually lost 13 times this season, more than a third of our games! We don't draw many, we either win or lose.

I think your table shows we've gone behind in 15 games and lost 13 times. That's a telling stat. So almost every time we've gone behind we've gone on to lose the game.


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Post #547486  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:21 am 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
We actually drew 2-2 at home to Crystal Palace. I suppose to put your point (I imagine made more relevant by the Palace result not being a win) in context, how common is coming from behind to win games? It’s presumably more common than the times Arsenal do it, by bigger clubs anyway. But knowing how common it is, which I’ve no idea about, would help to give your view some context.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier ... bewerb/GB1
This table shows all the points won from losing positions. We’re second last ahead of Norwich. City are quite low but only because they rarely fall behind.

On my original post I meant points won from losing positions rather than victories from losing positions which is why it is 4 points, palace and Wolves. The on other time we even got an equaliser was Man U away when we went from 2-1 down to 2-2 but eventually lost 3-2

Sorry I misread your post. I thought you’d said we’ve only won twice after going behind, Palace and Wolves. Not having only won points twice. Apologies, my mistake.


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Post #547487  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:39 am 
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socrates wrote:
Hi Rich,

If you look at the PL table we've scored 56 and conceded 47, compared to Tottenham 64 and 40 and Chelsea 73 and 31.

We don't score enough goals and we concede too many.

The fact that we find it hard to come from behind is in part due to the fact that we aren't prolific chance creators and scorers, we don't have a proven CF and we don't have many gamechangers. I think the team senses this. We have to work incredibly hard to get our goals (how many scrappy tap-ins do we get) whilst always being vulnerable to conceding. It makes us nervy and dejected when we do concede.

We've actually lost 13 times this season, more than a third of our games! We don't draw many, we either win or lose.

I think your table shows we've gone behind in 15 games and lost 13 times. That's a telling stat. So almost every time we've gone behind we've gone on to lose the game.

On the point about chance creation, the stats show that Saka nd Ødegaard are 5th and 6th for total chances created in the league this season, behind Bruno, Trent, De Bruyne and Ward-Prowse. The bigger issue is finishing chances than creating them but I take your point that we need more goals and a product of that is creating the chances as well.


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Post #547488  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:49 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Moreover, Rich himself said (unless I misunderstood his post and I’d be surprised if I did) that signing Jesus and no other striker this summer would represent underwhelming business for Arsenal on the ‘new striker’ front this summer. Rich is another poster I respect here, at least when he isn’t droning on about referees. If he did say that about Jesus, I would feel the same as him.

Hi Bernard, I did say if we signed Jesus as our only striking option it would be underwhelming, that isn't an underwhelming signing in isolation as I think Jesus is a fine player, but underwhelming for the fact that it would leave us with striker options of Jesus, Martinelli and Balogun only, and Martinelli hasn't shown a huge deal as a CF and Balogun really needs another season on loan.

Jesus AND a more classic No.9 who is tall, strong, physical and crucially mobile, and we're looking pretty strong up top.

I don't think there is any reason we should sign 2 top class strikers. We need competition and as long as we don't balls it up like we did with Aubameyang and Lacazette where neither were really a good fit in the wide positions then they'll both get plenty of games.

Imagine we signed Jesus and one of Abraham/Osimhen/Nunes, I could see plenty of games with Jesus wide right, Saka wide left (or vice versa) and one of those guys up top. Or games where Jesus plays up top and the wide men are Saka/Emile Smith Rowe/Martinelli

1 classic striker and 1 flexible forward (to replace Pépé) would be ideal.
Then in midfield I'd love 2 signings. If we think of the 3 midfield positions as a holding mid, a box to box mid and an attacking mid then I'd want 1 player who could fill the two more defensive roles and another player who could fill the two more attacking roles.

Then 2 full-backs. Tomiyasu gives us great flexibility being able to slot in across the back 4 but is injury prone. White can play RB in an emergency. It might be that we just get this lad Hickey who can play right or left and that is enough. Tierney/Tomiyasu/Hickey/Tavares/Cédric - and I think the kid Norton-Cuffy has genuine potential (possibly early Europa league rounds?)


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Post #547489  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:05 am 
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All this talk of who we might sign is great and entertaining. But there is also the issue of keeping those players that we really want going forward.

I do worry that Saka could be tempted elsewhere. For a young lad he has been run into the ground. He has looked exhausted recently.

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Post #547490  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:40 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
There are lots of suggestions on players to improve our squad on here. But what does the team look like after this. Lets look at Bissouma: does he replace Ødegaard or Xhaka or Partey. He has 111 EPL appearances for 3 goals according to his wikpedia profile. Is he an improvement. Jesus : does he replace Martnelli or Saka - probably Martenelli. How good is he defensively? Playing with Man City it isn't possible to tell.

Bissouma is a defensive midfielder. Not sure why he'd replace Ødegaard or why goals is the only stat worth looking into.

Gabriel Jesus would surely be signed primarily for the CF spot. I disagree with Bernard that he's a weak link for City. Recently he's been one of their best performers, and has been widely praised for his play. City fans seem generally gutted he might be leaving.

Bissouma : is he an improvement on what we have. I am just not sure. If he becomes the defensive midfielder who sometimes goes forward to link up goals are important. Arteta has been trying to get Xhaka to do this . So as a defensive midfielder let us assume he replaces Xhaka or Partey. Then we still have the problem of getting an offensive midfielder because often that is where we are breaking down. Not linking with the forwards. Ødegaard is sometimes very good and often invisible.

It is stated time and again by pundits that Man City don’t have a CF. But they have Jesus who I think Guardolia does not regard as a CF. Why do we think he would be our solution to the CF problem. I think he’s a good player but is he the CF Arteta wants. Personally I see Jesus as a winger or wide forward. If we got him and a good CF I would be happy.

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Post #547491  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:50 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Bissouma : is he an improvement on what we have. I am just not sure. If he becomes the defensive midfielder who sometimes goes forward to link up goals are important.

I take it you don't rate Fabinho at Liverpool then? 0 goals last season, 3 goals combined in his first three seasons.

Jesus hasn’t become the CF City hoped he would be, that much is clear. But he’s still a quality player, and if you look at his actual attributes you’ll find he can do a lot of the things we seemingly want in a player; hard worker, good presser, good link-up play, skillful, quick. Lacks the physicality, but so does Lacazette and he’s been doing the link-up part of the job quite well. Not sure there’s a better fit for us out there, he’s certainly got more potential than the likes of Tammy Abraham for me.


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Post #547492  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:24 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Bissouma : is he an improvement on what we have. I am just not sure. If he becomes the defensive midfielder who sometimes goes forward to link up goals are important.

I take it you don't rate Fabinho at Liverpool then? 0 goals last season, 3 goals combined in his first three seasons.

Jesus hasn’t become the CF City hoped he would be, that much is clear. But he’s still a quality player, and if you look at his actual attributes you’ll find he can do a lot of the things we seemingly want in a player; hard worker, good presser, good link-up play, skillful, quick. Lacks the physicality, but so does Lacazette and he’s been doing the link-up part of the job quite well. Not sure there’s a better fit for us out there, he’s certainly got more potential than the likes of Tammy Abraham for me.

No the point is not rating him but making his best position restricted. Is he therefore Parteys replacement or back up. But as box to box midfielder he is a bit more limited because of lack of goals : something we criticise Xhaka for. Mate I simply don’t know. Balance is essential in the team and maybe we could use him as holding midfielder, push Partey into box to box and just keep Ødegaard as attacking.

It’s a bit the same with Jesus as to his best position. Maybe putting him as CF in our side would be the emergence of him as a great CF.

There are no answers just worries, we aren’t just buying new players we are this year determining our future. We make mistakes and we could slide into being a permanent mid table team who now and then get Europa League. I am concerned about our future. Of course we get it right and we move back into the magic circle.

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Post #547493  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:43 am 
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Martinelli needs to start scoring some goals.

His quick feet and silky skills are great to watch but he needs to be on the scoresheet more regularly.


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Post #547494  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:10 am 
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socrates wrote:
Martinelli needs to start scoring some goals.

His quick feet and silky skills are great to watch but he needs to be on the scoresheet more regularly.

Honestly I don’t think we help him.

He’s a Ljungberg without a Bergkamp to play him in.


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Post #547495  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:17 am 
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I'm over the disappointment of the last two games. On reflection, I don't think we're not ready for the CL. I know the money side is a key driver but we can still make the signings we need. We signed Ødegaard without any euro football whatsoever and there are players out there who can improve us. I think Tielemans is still possible regardless. It's about getting the right holes filled. We're still a draw, pay big wages etc.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how far we can go in the EL next year.

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Post #547496  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:18 am 
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Will caveat that by saying, I would prefer to be in the CL but think we're a better fit for the EL right now. 5th is about right for this squad, this season.

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Post #547497  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:45 am 
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Darren wrote:
I'm over the disappointment of the last two games. On reflection, I don't think we're not ready for the CL. I know the money side is a key driver but we can still make the signings we need. We signed Ødegaard without any euro football whatsoever and there are players out there who can improve us. I think Tielemans is still possible regardless. It's about getting the right holes filled. We're still a draw, pay big wages etc.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how far we can go in the EL next year.


I’m at peace today. I wasn’t yesterday. Was tempted to ticket exchange my Everton ticket.

Only problem is Thursdays and Sundays aren’t great for me. I don’t really have much desire to watch games like Arsenal v Dundalk at the emirates again.

Im more angry at the reaction of people rather than our teams perceived failure. The kroenkes need to arm this manager this summer. If they don’t honestly I think we will have years in the wilderness and a rotating managers door. Strange feeling really it feels like nows the time and if it’s not now I don’t know what the answer is.


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Post #547498  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:50 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I’m at peace today. I wasn’t yesterday. Was tempted to ticket exchange my Everton ticket.

Only problem is Thursdays and Sundays aren’t great for me. I don’t really have much desire to watch games like Arsenal v Dundalk at the emirates again.

Im more angry at the reaction of people rather than our teams perceived failure. The kroenkes need to arm this manager this summer. If they don’t honestly I think we will have years in the wilderness and a rotating managers door. Strange feeling really it feels like nows the time and if it’s not now I don’t know what the answer is.

Same here. I think this summer will let us know if the Kroenke's really do value our club from the sporting side. They've definitely sharperned up of late and I think having Josh as the clear focal point of the family has clarified much of the smoke and mirrors stuff we had before.

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Post #547499  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:55 pm 
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A bizarre take I've seen a lot is that this was Arsenal's best chance because we had no europe and everyone else will improve next year. The improvement part is certainly no guarantee. Man U were meant to be title challengers with who they signed in the summer and they bombed. Chelsea were meant to be title challengers with Lukaku but he and they were well off the pace.

You can spin the narrative however you want and most in the media will spin the negative narrative.

If you want the positive side we came within a whisker of top 4 (still an outside chance) with the youngest and smallest squad in the league and without a serious striker and had to contend with injuries to 3 of our 4 irreplaceable players. You would expect younger players to be able to improve their level more than experienced players who if anything tend to find their form falls off in to their 30's.

I'm sure the club and the fans are well aware of where our deficiencies lie, the foundations are there to bring the club back to where we really want to be, we must continue being smart with our business.

City and Liverpool look well set for the next 3 years before their core group moves well in to their 30's. Who knows what will happen with Chelsea, they only have 15 days to remain in business right now. Spurs are a couple of injuries to Kane and Son from being midtable. This year we got the crucial injuries next year it could be them. Spurs are actually facing a double edged sword with those two players, they don't want to sell them because they are their best players - but even with years at their best they aren't winning anything. Refuse to sell them and their value drops so much that replacing them becomes virtually impossible. Or they sell them now for a big fee - taking 2 big steps back - knowing that they can reinvest that big fee in the side and hope to eventually take giant leaps forward that they are incapable of doing even with those two great players. they will fight to keep them but all it does is maintain them as irrelevant when the main prizes are handed out.

Newcastle will strengthen but can they go from 10th to 4th in one season?

And from 2024 the prem will very likely have 5 places for the champions league as long as English clubs continue to perform well in european competitions


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Post #547500  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 12:56 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Martinelli needs to start scoring some goals.

His quick feet and silky skills are great to watch but he needs to be on the scoresheet more regularly.

https://twitter.com/SouthamptonFC/statu ... iSdEyWHqKQ

Martinelli needs to be doing a bit more of this. Classic inverted winger play


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Post #547501  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:41 pm 
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https://twitter.com/ArsenalAcademy/stat ... 0892014597

Khayon Edwards signs his first pro contract with us, a few big clubs were sniffing around


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Post #547502  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:04 pm 
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1. I don't anticipate us doing well in Europe next season. We can barely manage doing well without Europe. We will need a bigger squad with quality. A proven scorer (give or take 20 goals) and another player who can put in double digit.

2. Europe will likely hurt our league form if this season is anything to go by. We will struggle for top 6. Newcastle has a great young manager unlimited funds. They will challenge all the way next season for top 6. All that said, give me Europe.

3. How long will we be able to hang on to Saka, Emile Smith Rowe, Martinelli and a few others? Clubs are going to come in waving bigger paychecks and possibly CL football if its certain clubs.

4. Stating the obvious, like we do EVERY summer. We need to buy quality and shed the dead weight. I'd take a high quality smaller squad and we are stretched a bit thin when the cup games pile up and we are out 1 or 2 early than a bigger, average squad that loses to 3 lower clubs on the trot.

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Post #547503  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:25 pm 
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Rich wrote:

City and Liverpool look well set for the next 3 years before their core group moves well in to their 30's. s


I think they could fall off. The tempo they play at takes a lot of them. I can't see them being that good in two years time.,

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Post #547504  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 3:39 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
1. I don't anticipate us doing well in Europe next season. We can barely manage doing well without Europe. We will need a bigger squad with quality.

.


Short reminder…. West Ham got to the semi finals and Rangers are in the final. :14laughter:


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Post #547505  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:56 pm 
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Sounds like Bellerin is coming back to us then. Betis can’t afford him apparently


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Post #547506  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:16 pm 
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If you’re in to stats, here’s a breakdown of Arteta’s time using xG for and xG against with all his results to gauge a 7 game average of performance when set against the previous 4 seasons worth of teams who finished in those positions in the league. Complicated


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Post #547507  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:17 pm 
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Whatever happens, God help Seville.


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Post #547508  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:40 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Whatever happens, God help Seville.

Apparently 100,000+ Rangers fans have gone over although the ticket allocation for each club was only 9,000.


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Post #547509  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:49 pm 
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I’ve seen people compare Arteta to Emery’s first season when he got 5th and 70 points. Using that as a reason why Arteta hasn’t improved us. One big factor was Emery had Aubameyang and Lacazette firing. They scored 35 league goals combined. It was an ageing squad where at least 75% of the squad would go in sharp decline.

I think Emery did ok in that first season but he just failed at the final hurdle in the league and in europe. He didn’t get a fair crack in many terms because the signings weren’t the ones he wanted and he didn’t get a long time - but the results went south and probably worse the style of play was poor so there didn’t seem to be a way to fight our way out of it. Conceding 31 shots v watford being a particular low.

I’m far from thinking Arteta is the manager who leads us back where we want to be but I’ve seen enough to stick with him for next season for sure


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Post #547510  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:12 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Rich wrote:

City and Liverpool look well set for the next 3 years before their core group moves well in to their 30's. s


I think they could fall off. The tempo they play at takes a lot of them. I can't see them being that good in two years time.,

Maybe, but sadly Liverpool are already planning ahead, Diaz, Jota, Elliot are all excellent and young. I expect them to go for one of Europe’s best CM this summer (Bellingham or Tchoumeni maybe)


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Post #547511  Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:54 pm 
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Shame for Ramsey. Hard to take.

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Post #547512  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:56 am 
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We fluke CL in the next game and all this may change.

A number of media agencies reporting Juventus are after Gabriel Magalhães and offering a number of useless players in exchange. It made me turn my mind to those players who I think we could be in danger of wanting to leave.

I think Gabriel, Xhaka, Leno, Saliba and Partey most likely fall within that group. Gabriel least likely but suddenly he sees Juventus want him. Who knows. But last year Xhaka wanted to go and he was convinced to stay. We obviously don't know what he was promised but he may want to move on if for instance he was promised CL or he is not seeing any real improvement at the club.

Partey reported from a number of sources he isn't happy with the role he is asked to play. I have sympathy because at times we play him as the sole true midfielder, with others not really playing any proper defensive role. Leno - he will leave.

Saliba - I think Arteta has burnt his bridges here already. Saliba will come for pre-season, see how he is treated, what he is promised and I don't think Arteta has the man management skill to keep him.

One other issue - Bellerin - why shouldn't he expect and get a free. We paid people all over the place to leave - why shouldn't a good servant of the club get the same or do we not value loyality. The stupidity of paying out players who don't get on with the manager may be shown up for what it was - terrible management skills.

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Post #547513  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 4:24 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
Shame for Ramsey. Hard to take.

I was absolutely gutted for Rangers and their fans as much, if not more so, than for Ramsey. By the way, I’m sure there was support here for bringing Ramsey back to Arsenal.

We dodged a bullet by not doing so. The bloke isn’t even good enough to be a regular starter in a fairly average team, whether or not the club itself has a huge domestic (meaning across Scotland) and very sizeable international fan base.


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Post #547514  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 4:30 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
We fluke CL in the next game and all this may change.

The idea that Norwich will beat Tottenham looks so unlikely I’m not even thinking about it. I accept anything can happen in a one off game. But Norwich are bloody useless by Premier League standards.


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Post #547515  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 5:00 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
One other issue - Bellerin - why shouldn't he expect and get a free. We paid people all over the place to leave - why shouldn't a good servant of the club get the same or do we not value loyality. The stupidity of paying out players who don't get on with the manager may be shown up for what it was - terrible management skills.

The only reason all these players got paid off to leave is because their extortionately high wages meant no club was willing to pay us a transfer fee for them and meet those wages. I’m pretty sure the club would have tried to get fees for them but no one was interested. Also I’m not sure all the players who left didn’t get on with Arteta. I didn’t see any problems with Kolasinac and Mari for example. I don’t know what people expected with Aubameyang and Özil, poor discipline and lack of effort could be excused if you’re producing the goods on the pitch but they were both performing terribly and had both checked out of Arsenal they had to go.
Why should we just give Bellerin a free transfer because he’s been a good boy and loyal? That’s the kind of thing that fans would lambast the club for. Bellerin has done ok at Betis, negotiate a fee with them or any other club that wants him, it may be less than we want to sell him for but why just give him away for free?


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Post #547516  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 5:27 am 
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Rich wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
One other issue - Bellerin - why shouldn't he expect and get a free. We paid people all over the place to leave - why shouldn't a good servant of the club get the same or do we not value loyality. The stupidity of paying out players who don't get on with the manager may be shown up for what it was - terrible management skills.

The only reason all these players got paid off to leave is because their extortionately high wages meant no club was willing to pay us a transfer fee for them and meet those wages. I’m pretty sure the club would have tried to get fees for them but no one was interested. Also I’m not sure all the players who left didn’t get on with Arteta. I didn’t see any problems with Kolasinac and Mari for example. I don’t know what people expected with Aubameyang and Özil, poor discipline and lack of effort could be excused if you’re producing the goods on the pitch but they were both performing terribly and had both checked out of Arsenal they had to go.
Why should we just give Bellerin a free transfer because he’s been a good boy and loyal? That’s the kind of thing that fans would lambast the club for. Bellerin has done ok at Betis, negotiate a fee with them or any other club that wants him, it may be less than we want to sell him for but why just give him away for free?

What do you think his wage currently is? Lets call it 70k - do you not see the problem of what happened with Özil and Aubameyang. They were on higher wages but if you want out of the club you just need to say you had 'çhecked out' and you will have expectations. I am not suggesting Bellerin will do that but if I was his manager I would say just stay on 70k or you give me a free. We should have been lambasting the club for the Özil and Aubameyang deals. Make no mistake these deals will hurt us for a long time to come.

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Post #547517  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 6:29 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
The only reason all these players got paid off to leave is because their extortionately high wages meant no club was willing to pay us a transfer fee for them and meet those wages. I’m pretty sure the club would have tried to get fees for them but no one was interested. Also I’m not sure all the players who left didn’t get on with Arteta. I didn’t see any problems with Kolasinac and Mari for example. I don’t know what people expected with Aubameyang and Özil, poor discipline and lack of effort could be excused if you’re producing the goods on the pitch but they were both performing terribly and had both checked out of Arsenal they had to go.
Why should we just give Bellerin a free transfer because he’s been a good boy and loyal? That’s the kind of thing that fans would lambast the club for. Bellerin has done ok at Betis, negotiate a fee with them or any other club that wants him, it may be less than we want to sell him for but why just give him away for free?

What do you think his wage currently is? Lets call it 70k - do you not see the problem of what happened with Özil and Aubameyang. They were on higher wages but if you want out of the club you just need to say you had 'çhecked out' and you will have expectations. I am not suggesting Bellerin will do that but if I was his manager I would say just stay on 70k or you give me a free. We should have been lambasting the club for the Özil and Aubameyang deals. Make no mistake these deals will hurt us for a long time to come.

There is a big difference between trying to shift a 27 year old, consummate professional on £70k a week to trying to shift players age 30+, not known for their professionalism and workrate on £350k a week.
Perhaps no one wants to buy Bellerin but it will be a damn sight easier to get a fee, any fee, for him than Aubameyang and Özil. £70k a week is not a huge amount for a player like Bellerin, if no one wants to take him on those wages AND pay a transfer fee then so be it but why would the club ‘offer’ the free transfer out of loyalty?


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Post #547518  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 6:32 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
What do you think his wage currently is? Lets call it 70k.

Apparently Bellerin is on £58k a week at Betis whereas he was on £110k a week at Arsenal. Reports say his Arsenal contract expires in 2023 although the club has an option of extending it by a year, so to 2024.

If he was willing to practically halve his salary to play for his boyhood (as a fan) club, the question is if he returns to Arsenal would we be legally obliged to put him back on £110k a week. I’m certainly not suggesting we should. But my guess would be we’d have to.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tbrfootbal ... xit/%3Famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footba ... 642874.amp


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Post #547519  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 7:09 am 
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This article suggests we could see Bellerin back at Arsenal next season. As I said before, if we’re legally obliged to pay him £110k a week (his Arsenal salary), that could make it difficult to sell him if the only reason for him accepting £58k at Betis was being a lifelong fan.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/ ... dium=email


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Post #547520  Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 7:11 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
What do you think his wage currently is? Lets call it 70k.

Apparently Bellerin is on £58k a week at Betis whereas he was on £110k a week at Arsenal. Reports say his Arsenal contract expires in 2023 although the club has an option of extending it by a year, so to 2024.

If he was willing to practically halve his salary to play for his boyhood (as a fan) club, the question is if he returns to Arsenal would we be legally obliged to put him back on £110k a week. I’m certainly not suggesting we should. But my guess would be we’d have to.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tbrfootbal ... xit/%3Famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footba ... 642874.amp

Yes, you have to pay him the contracted amount. over 5 million wages for the year. The other issue is, were we picking up the balance of his wages. I would not be surprised if we were as that is normal practice.

Perhaps I phrased the whole issue in a difficult way to understand. I was merely posing questions on people like Bellerin. I am not saying we must give him a free, but it is difficult to see why he should not ask. Its things like this that cause problems in the club when someone is no longer wanted. Look at it this way - if you were his manager what would you advise him to do, knowing you probably get a percentage of his wages.

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