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Post #530841  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:23 am 
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There has been talk of Arsenal offering Elneny a new contract and also talk that several clubs would like to buy him. I just don't understand giving him a new deal. He may be happy as 4th choice central midfielder and Arteta may like him to shore up a game but when you look at his stats in midfield he is the epitome of a sideways and backwards passer, we need to move on from players like Elneny not give him a new deal. Yes, he was sort of ok last year, surprisingly so in some games, but he made a lot of starts and we finished 8th. I'd much rather take whatever we can get for him and invest time in a younger central midfielder like Azeez.
Exactly the same argument for Nketiah. Sell him and give his minutes to Balogun


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Post #530842  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:45 am 
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No thanks to Maddison and Ramsdale.
60 million is a waste of money for Maddison. If we are willing to go that high then why not have just made sure we got Buendia for 40 m.
Maddison is a good player but not great.
Grealish all day long but we can get a better player and cheaper than Maddison would be.
Proper scouting would get us someone.
As for Ramsdale.
Is that some sort of joke??
He is average at best.
Why the hell haven’t we snapped up Onana??


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Post #530843  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:48 am 
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As the days pass, I can't help but see Arsenal is in very dire circumstances.
A few senior and experienced players want to leave.
Top targets unlikely to come here for various reasons, key being we are not in Champions League.
Other targets are also wanted by other mid-table type clubs, and we never buy quickly enough, but always need to haggle (and likely lose out in the end).
Arteta in two-minds about some players we already have. The longer he vacillates, the more these players lose interest (with him).
No financial muscle.

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Post #530844  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:49 am 
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Rich wrote:
There has been talk of Arsenal offering Elneny a new contract and also talk that several clubs would like to buy him. I just don't understand giving him a new deal. He may be happy as 4th choice central midfielder and Arteta may like him to shore up a game but when you look at his stats in midfield he is the epitome of a sideways and backwards passer, we need to move on from players like Elneny not give him a new deal. Yes, he was sort of ok last year, surprisingly so in some games, but he made a lot of starts and we finished 8th. I'd much rather take whatever we can get for him and invest time in a younger central midfielder like Azeez.
Exactly the same argument for Nketiah. Sell him and give his minutes to Balogun

Totally agree Rich.
There is no way Balogun would have signed that contract if he hasnt been assured of a chance to prove himself so let's see him given a go.
Would be loathe to see Azeez walk away.
Doesnt his contract end in 2 weeks?
No news filtering out about him either.


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Post #530845  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:10 pm 
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david.d wrote:
Rich wrote:
There has been talk of Arsenal offering Elneny a new contract and also talk that several clubs would like to buy him. I just don't understand giving him a new deal. He may be happy as 4th choice central midfielder and Arteta may like him to shore up a game but when you look at his stats in midfield he is the epitome of a sideways and backwards passer, we need to move on from players like Elneny not give him a new deal. Yes, he was sort of ok last year, surprisingly so in some games, but he made a lot of starts and we finished 8th. I'd much rather take whatever we can get for him and invest time in a younger central midfielder like Azeez.
Exactly the same argument for Nketiah. Sell him and give his minutes to Balogun

Totally agree Rich.
There is no way Balogun would have signed that contract if he hasnt been assured of a chance to prove himself so let's see him given a go.
Would be loathe to see Azeez walk away.
Doesnt his contract end in 2 weeks?
No news filtering out about him either.

I read that Azeez’s contract doesn’t end this season. It runs until 2022 with an option to extend to 2024.


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Post #530846  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:34 pm 
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The concern I have with any £50m signing we might make is it absolutely HAS to work, irrespective of the players age really. I can’t think of many £50m signings who have underperformed and the team still recoup their losses. But you can do that with young £25m players.

It seems strange after years of pleading with Arsenal to spend some
Money to then turn your nose up when they are proposing to drop £100m on 2 young English players, but the fans still want to see value.


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Post #530847  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:48 pm 
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It is a quirk of the draw that some teams are going to have a much easier route through the Euro's than others.

Take England and Wales for example.

If England win the group they'll likely play Portugal or Germany and then likely play Spain in the QF
If Wales come second in their group they'll likely play Russia then Netherlands in the QF

So the prize for winning the group is a lot harder.

So what if England try to come 2nd in the group. Well they get an easier second round against Sweden or Slovakia but would then likely run in to France in the QF.

If you want to win it you've got to beat the best teams at some point I suppose!


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Post #530848  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:53 pm 
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White for £45m and Maddison for £60m are one thing but I'm really concerned with the rumours linking us to Aaron Ramsdale for £20m!! Surely everyone can see that is utterly ridiculous. That is far too much to pay for a GK who is at best 5th best English GK and has had 2 back to back relegations and shown nothing in either of those two sides to warrant that fee or playing for us. We'll be a laughing stock if we sign him for the same amount we sold Martinez for. Ryan for peanuts or Onana for £5-10m are clearly far better purchases. If we're picking up relegated GK I'd rather have Sam Johnstone from West Brom.

Also if we're desperate for a home grown GK go down the road to Brentford and go for David Raya who is maybe half the price.


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Post #530849  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Rich wrote:
david.d wrote:
Totally agree Rich.
There is no way Balogun would have signed that contract if he hasnt been assured of a chance to prove himself so let's see him given a go.
Would be loathe to see Azeez walk away.
Doesnt his contract end in 2 weeks?
No news filtering out about him either.

I read that Azeez’s contract doesn’t end this season. It runs until 2022 with an option to extend to 2024.

Where did you read that Rich?


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Post #530850  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:08 pm 
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Rich wrote:
White for £45m and Maddison for £60m are one thing but I'm really concerned with the rumours linking us to Aaron Ramsdale for £20m!! Surely everyone can see that is utterly ridiculous. That is far too much to pay for a GK who is at best 5th best English GK and has had 2 back to back relegations and shown nothing in either of those two sides to warrant that fee or playing for us. We'll be a laughing stock if we sign him for the same amount we sold Martinez for. Ryan for peanuts or Onana for £5-10m are clearly far better purchases. If we're picking up relegated GK I'd rather have Sam Johnstone from West Brom.
Also if we're desperate for a home grown GK go down the road to Brentford and go for David Raya who is maybe half the price.

Wasnt the goalkeeping coach the one that recommended Runarsson.
If he has done the same with Ramsdale then quite frankly he doesnt have a *%^@*** clue!
Agreed
Sam Johnstone much better.
But really Onana is an absolute no brainer at the reported price.


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Post #530851  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Watched one of the Ben White compilations going around and I must admit he does look very classy on the ball.

Of course compilations can be deceiving because they tend not to show the mistakes and difficult moments but I was surprisingly impressed by his technical ability.

On the downside there are whispers that other clubs are waiting in the wings for a fee to be agreed before pouncing.


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Post #530852  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:11 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Watched one of the Ben White compilations going around and I must admit he does look very classy on the ball.

Of course compilations can be deceiving because they tend not to show the mistakes and difficult moments but I was surprisingly impressed by his technical ability.

On the downside there are whispers that other clubs are waiting in the wings for a fee to be agreed before pouncing.

I think it's inevitable that we will be gazumped by one of the top 4


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Post #530853  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:38 pm 
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Another thing about White is that he seems very durable - played the most minutes of any Brighton player this season, just a few minutes shy of 36 full 90 minute games. Last season he played every single minute for Leeds in the league, that's 46 90 minute games in a row.


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Post #530854  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:43 pm 
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https://twitter.com/GurjitAFC/status/14 ... 2808847367
Nice video of some of Ben White's best bits. Nothing like a good highlights video to warm to a potential signing.....and to mask any deficiencies in any players game! Everyone looks good on youtube of course


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Post #530855  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:45 pm 
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david.d wrote:
Rich wrote:
I read that Azeez’s contract doesn’t end this season. It runs until 2022 with an option to extend to 2024.

Where did you read that Rich?

I read it on twitter, I'm afraid I cant recall who but it was an informed Arsenal journalist not just some fan. I remember reading it with interest because I also thought Azeez contract was up this summer


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Post #530856  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:50 pm 
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Fabrizio Romano saying Leicester are in talks with Patson Daka the RB Salzburg striker. Absolutely no surprise there.
22 years old, 34 goals in 42 games last year, 27 in 45 the year before. Supposedly available for £17m, he's a classic Leicester signing. Good chance he's worth double in 2 years time. I don't understand why more clubs aren't doing the same even supposedly bigger clubs like us.

Soumare at £20m and Daka at £17m are really no brainer signings with very little downside. I predict by Christmas we'll be moaning about how both would walk in to our starting 11.


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Post #530857  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:00 pm 
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No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.

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Post #530858  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:30 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.


Surely stuff Smith Rowes agent has just fed to the press to get his client a better contract offer. :laughing7:

That said I’d probably say no too but it would be tempting


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Post #530859  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:08 pm 
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Spurs search for a new manager goes on. All talks with 5th Fonseca are now off. Rumours are they’ve approached Gattusso


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Post #530860  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:14 pm 
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So Tierney is ‘fit’ for Scotland tomorrow. Hope that he doesn’t end up crocked.

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Post #530861  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:19 pm 
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Mavropanos close to a £7m move to Stuttgart. Once again the fee feels low or at best totally reasonable.
It’ll be annoying if I’m a depressed market we manage to do a classic Arsenal and sell all our players on the cheap and get fleeced and over pay for our signings.
Mavropanos is 23, a full international and had a full season of top level German football last year. £7m just feels far too measly.
Ask yourself if for some reason we wanted a Mavropanos replacement who at his level could we get for £7m?


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Post #530862  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:22 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.


No. Just no.

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Post #530863  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:23 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Mavropanos is 23, a full international and had a full season of top level German football last year. £7m just feels far too measly.

I think it's his injury record combined with him only wanting to move to Stuttgart that lowers the fee. As good as he seems to have been when playing, he only started 19 out of 34 league games last season, and he's had trouble with other injuries in the past too.


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Post #530864  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:30 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Mavropanos close to a £7m move to Stuttgart. Once again the fee feels low or at best totally reasonable.
It’ll be annoying if I’m a depressed market we manage to do a classic Arsenal and sell all our players on the cheap and get fleeced and over pay for our signings.
Mavropanos is 23, a full international and had a full season of top level German football last year. £7m just feels far too measly.
Ask yourself if for some reason we wanted a Mavropanos replacement who at his level could we get for £7m?


Seems a reasonable fee. He never impressed at all for us really.

I think because we had to give away Sokratis, Özil and mustafi to get their wages off the books our fans now think we are making an error not getting more for these players.

I think also the club need to Aggressively move some of these non contributors on to rebuild so may consider lower offers than they usually would.


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Post #530865  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:58 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
As the days pass, I can't help but see Arsenal is in very dire circumstances.
A few senior and experienced players want to leave.
Top targets unlikely to come here for various reasons, key being we are not in Champions League.
Other targets are also wanted by other mid-table type clubs, and we never buy quickly enough, but always need to haggle (and likely lose out in the end).
Arteta in two-minds about some players we already have. The longer he vacillates, the more these players lose interest (with him).
No financial muscle.


:53big-emoticons:

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Post #530866  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:13 pm 
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Rich wrote:
david.d wrote:
Where did you read that Rich?

I read it on twitter, I'm afraid I cant recall who but it was an informed Arsenal journalist not just some fan. I remember reading it with interest because I also thought Azeez contract was up this summer


I posted this on Azeez awhile back for David's benefit. Seen nothing on a new contract yet.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/05/14/r ... azeez/?amp

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Post #530867  Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:17 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.


Guess there isn't another lamb up for the slaughter instead of Emile Smith Rowe then Los Blancos might want instead.

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Post #530868  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:37 am 
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long time gooner wrote:
No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.


Likely nonsense writing. If true, hope Arsenal don't make the dumb decision to agree on this.

Emile Smith Rowe home grown, and has established himself as a trusted first-teamer. Much more driven player than almost the entire squad (something we need in abundance).

Ødegaard, I'm still not convinced he can make it happen for us. Pulls away from tackles too quickly. Not anywhere close to Özil, Cesc or Carzola level to warrant this swap.

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Post #530869  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:22 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
No!!!!

https://newsjust24all.com/real-madrid-r ... alKNS6-1wo


Unless they give us a load of money as well.

Likely nonsense writing. If true, hope Arsenal don't make the dumb decision to agree on this.

Emile Smith Rowe home grown, and has established himself as a trusted first-teamer. Much more driven player than almost the entire squad (something we need in abundance).

Ødegaard, I'm still not convinced he can make it happen for us. Pulls away from tackles too quickly. Not anywhere close to Özil, Cesc or Carzola level to warrant this swap.

I agree, it’s probably nonsense journalism and I wouldn’t want to lose Smith Rowe for Ødegaard either. But can’t you find ways to say that without slagging Ødegaard off? Ødegaard is an elite talent and potentially a truly elite player. I suspect that’s why Real Madrid, in my view the world’s biggest club, not only bought him but probably want to keep him. I bet he ends up achieving more in the game than Cazorla, sadly as I don’t see it being with Arsenal.


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Post #530870  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:51 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Likely nonsense writing. If true, hope Arsenal don't make the dumb decision to agree on this.

Emile Smith Rowe home grown, and has established himself as a trusted first-teamer. Much more driven player than almost the entire squad (something we need in abundance).

Ødegaard, I'm still not convinced he can make it happen for us. Pulls away from tackles too quickly. Not anywhere close to Özil, Cesc or Carzola level to warrant this swap.

I agree, it’s probably nonsense journalism and I wouldn’t want to lose Smith Rowe for Ødegaard either. But can’t you find ways to say that without slagging Ødegaard off? Ødegaard is an elite talent and potentially a truly elite player. I suspect that’s why Real Madrid, in my view the world’s biggest club, not only bought him but probably want to keep him. I bet he ends up achieving more in the game than Cazorla, sadly as I don’t see it being with Arsenal.

Just to clarify, my last sentence was relevant to club careers, not international football.


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Post #530871  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:57 am 
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Spurs hunt for a new manager goes on
Nagelsmann, Rodgers, Flick, Ten Hag, Pochettino, Conte, Fonseca, Gattuso.....on to the next one. Scott Parker?


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Post #530872  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:54 am 
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It is interesting that last year we had the 3rd best defence but 9th best attack. Creating chances and scoring goals was our problem (alongside a number of individual errors in defence) So most people would think we need more attackers. I read an interesting article about how actually better defenders can help the attacking output if those defenders bring the right skillset. The defenders themselves aren't creating or scoring goals but they are progressing the ball forward more quickly and more accurately and are more press resistant. Quite simply, get the ball forward quicker and retain possession better to keep up the intensity of attacks and we present our forward players with better opportunities to create chances.

I was certainly someone amongst many who bemoaned the lack of creativity in our side particularly at the start of last season, but have seen more to the argument than a solution being the simple option of buying more creative players.

A comparison was made to Pep and City in his second season, Pep went from 4th to Champions, conceding fewer and scoring more on the back of the summer business being a full defensive revamp. The big signings that summer for City were Ederson, Walker, Mendy, Danillo, and Laporte following in the winter. The only major attacking signing was Bernardo Silva.

At the top level these centre backs who do all the good things defenders do but also have the technique and passing range of a central midfielder are absolutely crucial


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Post #530873  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:30 am 
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Rich wrote:
Spurs hunt for a new manager goes on
Nagelsmann, Rodgers, Flick, Ten Hag, Pochettino, Conte, Fonseca, Gattuso.....on to the next one. Scott Parker?

I am not sure I take much pleasure in this as if it all goes wrong before Christmas we will have a number of the same names on our shopping list.

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Post #530874  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:03 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
Spurs hunt for a new manager goes on
Nagelsmann, Rodgers, Flick, Ten Hag, Pochettino, Conte, Fonseca, Gattuso.....on to the next one. Scott Parker?

I am not sure I take much pleasure in this as if it all goes wrong before Christmas we will have a number of the same names on our shopping list.


Spurs built a credible team with Pochettino, gradually improving so much so they made the CL final and were over achieving - the slightest hint of that over achieving diminishing and they sacked him and got in Jose Mourinho. They deserve every problem they have.

Our situation is a bit more different for a number of reasons. Without being arrogant I think managers are less likely to turn Arsenal down than they are to turn Spurs down - no matter that they've finished above us in the league for 4-5 years now, on a global scale we're simply a bigger team. Also, I don't really get the impression Arsenal will move Arteta on in a hurry, especially if there isn't a credible candidate available.
Someone like Rodgers - I don't blame him staying at Leicester, but they've had champions league football snatched away in the last two seasons, yes they won the FA Cup and continue to punch above their weight but Rodgers will surely be tempted by another chance at a really big club - I don't know if he'd see us as big enough but my bet is he might.


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Post #530875  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:25 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
Spurs hunt for a new manager goes on
Nagelsmann, Rodgers, Flick, Ten Hag, Pochettino, Conte, Fonseca, Gattuso.....on to the next one. Scott Parker?

I am not sure I take much pleasure in this as if it all goes wrong before Christmas we will have a number of the same names on our shopping list.

One should take one's pleasure where one can, Gaz :laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #530876  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:34 am 
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Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?


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Post #530877  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:09 am 
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DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?

I’ve always seen the number 10 role as the deep creative central forward role. A sort of Cantona or Bergkamp player. I’ve always seen the number 8 as the creative central midfielder role. A sort of Cazorla or Fabregas type of player, even if they don’t have the 8 shirt.


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Post #530878  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:10 am 
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DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?


Depends on the coach and the set up.

generally accepted the number 8 has more defensive duties than the 10. The suggestion is Partey is best played as an 8


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Post #530879  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:17 am 
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Thanks Bern & TG. I see what you're both saying and I wouldn't disagree. Tricky one.

In terms of 8 or 10, how should we view Saka and Smith-Rowe?


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Post #530880  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:18 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:
Slightly daft and maybe naïve question, but I'll ask it anyway.

In modern football, what's the essential difference between the number 10 role and the number 8 role?

Depends on the coach and the set up.

generally accepted the number 8 has more defensive duties than the 10. The suggestion is Partey is best played as an 8

Traditionally I’ve always seen the number 4 as the defensive midfielder.


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