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Post #535641  Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:28 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Our heavily deplete team got whupped by no less than City and Chelsea and the keeper is the villain.

Then our full strength side beats the two bottom teams in the league and our keeper is the hero?

I'm excited by Ramsdale, and unlike you, thought highly of him before we signed.

But I would like a bigger and more representative sample than that before drawing any firm conclusions.

You’re right Decaf. It’s very early days but Ramsdale looks good in the air and confident in dealing with crosses. But, and at this stage it’s an important point to make, he hasn’t kept out a shot that you wouldn’t expect a semi-competent keeper to keep save.

I’m not going to say all the shots he’s saved so far would have been kept out by my mother-in-law who’s in her eighties. I will say, however, that if he’d let any of the shots he has saved for Arsenal so far go in, they would and should have been put down as a goalkeeping error.

Ramsdale has started well but it’s a little early to declare him the next Neuer.


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Post #535642  Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:39 pm 
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The main issue about Leno or Ramsdale is exactly the same as the main issue about Leno or Martinez (imho). Ramsdale seems to work as part of the defence, as did Martinez. Leno may be a better shot stopper but, even if he is, that doesn't make him the best gk for us.

Personally, I'd expect to see Leno tomorrow and Ramsdale at the weekend. Chopping and changing keepers rarely works, unless there's a very good reason for it. It might be a high pressure game, but Ramsdale looks as if he has had plenty of those over the last three years. He's got experience of working with this defence (+ Partey) and Leno hasn't.


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Post #535643  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:59 am 
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I'm going to be the forum worry wort and say winning tonight is not a foregone conslusion. I hope we aren't looking past this game.
It's a great opportunity to give young players some first team minutes but we can't blow it either. We have to be prepared to throw some weight around the pitch with first team players off the bench if need be for the win.

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Post #535644  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:15 am 
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I'm glad we now have a GK who is willing to come forward and claim the crosses. That's being proactive. And gives defenders confidence too.
Waiting on the line to save is reactive.

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Post #535645  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:24 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
I'm glad we now have a GK who is willing to come forward and claim the crosses. That's being proactive. And gives defenders confidence too.
Waiting on the line to save is reactive.

Surely the most important factor is choosing the right occasions to come for crosses or stay on the line. Sometimes it’s right to come for crosses. Other times it’s the wrong decision to come for crosses. Likewise it can be the right decision to wait on the line but there will be times when it can be the wrong decision.

I suspect if one over-generalises, and I’m not saying you do, you’re likely to ignore the probability that it is wrong for keepers to do the same thing all the time. The better ones will make their decisions according to the specific circumstances they are faced with.


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Post #535646  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:12 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I'm glad we now have a GK who is willing to come forward and claim the crosses. That's being proactive. And gives defenders confidence too.
Waiting on the line to save is reactive.

Surely the most important factor is choosing the right occasions to come for crosses or stay on the line. Sometimes it’s right to come for crosses. Other times it’s the wrong decision to come for crosses. Likewise it can be the right decision to wait on the line but there will be times when it can be the wrong decision.

Having the ability to come for crosses gives you an option you don't have if you can't. (Nearly) Everyone has the ability to wait.


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Post #535647  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:22 am 
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Pode wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Surely the most important factor is choosing the right occasions to come for crosses or stay on the line. Sometimes it’s right to come for crosses. Other times it’s the wrong decision to come for crosses. Likewise it can be the right decision to wait on the line but there will be times when it can be the wrong decision.

Having the ability to come for crosses gives you an option you don't have if you can't. (Nearly) Everyone has the ability to wait.

That’s true but I’m struggling to think of many professional, at an established (lots of games) Premier League level, which is what I predominantly watch, goalkeepers unable to come for crosses. I can fully understand why on the basis of three games some argue Ramsdale looks more accomplished at it than Leno. I think that myself. But it would be majorly unfair to the point of almost being laughable to claim Leno was unable to come for crosses. There are gross exaggerations and there’s stupidity. I’ve seen Leno catch many high balls.

De Gea isn’t great at crosses but his shot stopping more than makes up for it.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I’m aware you didn’t say Leno was unable to come for crosses. I was just saying why I think it would be verging on ridiculous if anyone did.


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Post #535648  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
david.d wrote:
Like i said i'm happy to eat humble pie re Ramsdale.
Clearly Arteta can do no wrong in your eyes.
Cant think of many who would legislate dropping a keeper high on confidence and on form last couple of games to bring back someone who is out of form.
But hey whatever suits your narrative.

Don’t know how to tell you this mate but we don’t play spurs till Sunday and I doubt he’s getting dropped anyway. You’re talking about nothing.

It’s all extremes right and the moment Ramsdale makes an even borderline mistake both he and the manager will get it both barrels. It’s all so predictable and boring now. It’s not even anything to do with the manager, support your club d*******.

Go *%^@ yourself you *%^@.
*%^@*** hyprocite.
Seems only you can be on a downer when it suits. Xhaka spring to mind??
Forum of opinions.
*%^@*** deal with it.


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Post #535649  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:31 am 
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Cannot stand self entitled pricks like TG taking on the guise of forum moderator and advising everyone how to support our club.
Prick.


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Post #535650  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:33 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Our heavily deplete team got whupped by no less than City and Chelsea and the keeper is the villain.

Then our full strength side beats the two bottom teams in the league and our keeper is the hero?

I'm excited by Ramsdale, and unlike you, thought highly of him before we signed.

But I would like a bigger and more representative sample than that before drawing any firm conclusions.

You’re right Decaf. It’s very early days but Ramsdale looks good in the air and confident in dealing with crosses. But, and at this stage it’s an important point to make, he hasn’t kept out a shot that you wouldn’t expect a semi-competent keeper to keep save.

I’m not going to say all the shots he’s saved so far would have been kept out by my mother-in-law who’s in her eighties. I will say, however, that if he’d let any of the shots he has saved for Arsenal so far go in, they would and should have been put down as a goalkeeping error.

Ramsdale has started well but it’s a little early to declare him the next Neuer.

Bernard
No one has declared him the next Neuer!
Just said he should stay in on form.


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Post #535651  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:02 pm 
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david.d wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Ramsdale has started well but it’s a little early to declare him the next Neuer.

Bernard
No one has declared him the next Neuer!
Just said he should stay in on form.

I appreciate that David. That’s why I didn’t say anyone had. I was just trying to find a slightly lighthearted way of emphasising my agreement with Decaf that it’s a little soon, three games against poor opposition, to make hard judgments.

I thought it was unacceptable when people started slagging Ramsdale off on other social media outlets when he hadn’t even played for the club. No one here has gone to that level here, in reverse, by praising him. But he’s played against WBA, Norwich and Burnley. Let’s keep calm. He still has it all to do.


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Post #535652  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
david.d wrote:
Bernard
No one has declared him the next Neuer!
Just said he should stay in on form.

I appreciate that David. That’s why I didn’t say anyone had. I was just trying to find a slightly lighthearted way of emphasising my agreement with Decaf that it’s a little soon, three games against poor opposition, to make hard judgments.

I thought it was unacceptable when people started slagging Ramsdale off on other social media outlets when he hadn’t even played for the club. No one here has gone to that level here, in reverse, by praising him. But he’s played against WBA, Norwich and Burnley. Let’s keep calm. He still has it all to do.

Bernard
I agree. Totally unacceptable to slag off Ramsdale directly on social media.
i was one of a few on here that voiced his disapproval at us signing him because i genuinely didn't believe he was good enough.
But he is here now so i will support him as he is now one of ours.
I have been impressed, so far so good but still a way to go.
I am quite happy to hold up my hands and admit i was wrong if he continues how he is doing over a longer period of time.


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Post #535653  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Pode wrote:
The main issue about Leno or Ramsdale is exactly the same as the main issue about Leno or Martinez (imho). Ramsdale seems to work as part of the defence, as did Martinez. Leno may be a better shot stopper but, even if he is, that doesn't make him the best gk for us.

Personally, I'd expect to see Leno tomorrow and Ramsdale at the weekend. Chopping and changing keepers rarely works, unless there's a very good reason for it. It might be a high pressure game, but Ramsdale looks as if he has had plenty of those over the last three years. He's got experience of working with this defence (+ Partey) and Leno hasn't.

Greetings Pode
If you are Burnley you want someone who can stop lots of shot and hoof it a long way towards where the neanderthals have gathered for a knock-down. I'm not sure if Sheffield United played that way, but I'd imagine that the kind of skills you need for an ambitious team would not be at a premium for the relegation fodder teams where Ramsdale cut his teeth. Not only does your keeper need to be good with his feet, you need a keeper who can 'sweep' and will allow you to play a high line, for example. That means the keeper has to be very quick, and be able to read the game excellently.

Also, the pressure is different, I think. For a lower level keeper, the odd cockup would hardly be noticed if it was mixed up with heroics. Completely different if you are playing for a top side.

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Post #535654  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:57 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
EDIT: Just to clarify, I’m aware you didn’t say Leno was unable to come for crosses. I was just saying why I think it would be verging on ridiculous if anyone did.

My point was simply that the ability to make a decision only exists within someone's sphere of competence. The evidence suggests that Ramsdale has more of it with this skill, so he has more options.


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Post #535655  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Pode wrote:
The main issue about Leno or Ramsdale is exactly the same as the main issue about Leno or Martinez (imho). Ramsdale seems to work as part of the defence, as did Martinez. Leno may be a better shot stopper but, even if he is, that doesn't make him the best gk for us.

Personally, I'd expect to see Leno tomorrow and Ramsdale at the weekend. Chopping and changing keepers rarely works, unless there's a very good reason for it. It might be a high pressure game, but Ramsdale looks as if he has had plenty of those over the last three years. He's got experience of working with this defence (+ Partey) and Leno hasn't.

Greetings Pode
If you are Burnley you want someone who can stop lots of shot and hoof it a long way towards where the neanderthals have gathered for a knock-down. I'm not sure if Sheffield United played that way, but I'd imagine that the kind of skills you need for an ambitious team would not be at a premium for the relegation fodder teams where Ramsdale cut his teeth. Not only does your keeper need to be good with his feet, you need a keeper who can 'sweep' and will allow you to play a high line, for example. That means the keeper has to be very quick, and be able to read the game excellently.

Also, the pressure is different, I think. For a lower level keeper, the odd cockup would hardly be noticed if it was mixed up with heroics. Completely different if you are playing for a top side.
Hi,
Sheffield United weren't expected to be relegation candidates when he went there; had bought ambitiously iirc. Nor were Bournemouth the year before (7th at the beginning of November). Ramsdale seems to be better with his feet than Leno.

I'm not saying he's better than Leno, but he's the one in position, he fits in well with the team and there's no obvious reason to drop him. He's also likely to be with us longer than Leno if it comes to that.


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Post #535656  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm 
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Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose. If Arteta drops Ramsdale he’s an idiot, likewise if he drops Leno he’s also an idiot. If he plays first team players I intend on accusing him of risking Sunday’s result and if he doesn’t I intend on accusing him of being an idiot for not taking the competition seriously.


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Post #535657  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:16 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I'm glad we now have a GK who is willing to come forward and claim the crosses. That's being proactive. And gives defenders confidence too.
Waiting on the line to save is reactive.

Surely the most important factor is choosing the right occasions to come for crosses or stay on the line. Sometimes it’s right to come for crosses. Other times it’s the wrong decision to come for crosses. Likewise it can be the right decision to wait on the line but there will be times when it can be the wrong decision.

I suspect if one over-generalises, and I’m not saying you do, you’re likely to ignore the probability that it is wrong for keepers to do the same thing all the time. The better ones will make their decisions according to the specific circumstances they are faced with.

Greetings Bernard. I think that decision making and mentality is what distinguishes the really great keeper from the average keeper.

I'm sure you could find lot of young men who are as big and quick as Neuer and have have as good reflexes. The mentality of a really top keeper is a much rarer thing: consistency (which comes from their power of concentration and resilience), the right sort of bravery and confidence (which doesn't cross the line to foolhardiness and lunacy), and most of all, football intelligence.

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Post #535658  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:23 pm 
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Pode wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Greetings Pode
If you are Burnley you want someone who can stop lots of shot and hoof it a long way towards where the neanderthals have gathered for a knock-down. I'm not sure if Sheffield United played that way, but I'd imagine that the kind of skills you need for an ambitious team would not be at a premium for the relegation fodder teams where Ramsdale cut his teeth. Not only does your keeper need to be good with his feet, you need a keeper who can 'sweep' and will allow you to play a high line, for example. That means the keeper has to be very quick, and be able to read the game excellently.

Also, the pressure is different, I think. For a lower level keeper, the odd cockup would hardly be noticed if it was mixed up with heroics. Completely different if you are playing for a top side.
Hi,
Sheffield United weren't expected to be relegation candidates when he went there; had bought ambitiously iirc. Nor were Bournemouth the year before (7th at the beginning of November). Ramsdale seems to be better with his feet than Leno.

I'm not saying he's better than Leno, but he's the one in position, he fits in well with the team and there's no obvious reason to drop him. He's also likely to be with us longer than Leno if it comes to that.

I do agree. However, where I differ from some posters is that I really don't think it would be a terrible decision to play Leno against Spurs.

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Post #535659  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:47 pm 
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With hindsight helping us, we can put the loss to Brentford in its proper perspective. They are a good team. They have been playing together. They barely missed out on promotion before. They were more prepared as a team than we were. I'm not saying we deserve to lose or should have lost but we would have to be about where we are now at the very least to have beaten them and a draw might have been the best we could have gotten that early.

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Post #535660  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:23 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I'm glad we now have a GK who is willing to come forward and claim the crosses. That's being proactive. And gives defenders confidence too.
Waiting on the line to save is reactive.

Surely the most important factor is choosing the right occasions to come for crosses or stay on the line. Sometimes it’s right to come for crosses. Other times it’s the wrong decision to come for crosses. Likewise it can be the right decision to wait on the line but there will be times when it can be the wrong decision.

I suspect if one over-generalises, and I’m not saying you do, you’re likely to ignore the probability that it is wrong for keepers to do the same thing all the time. The better ones will make their decisions according to the specific circumstances they are faced with.


Totally agree that the GK has to make their judgment call. I am happy Ramsdale made those decisions early and came out to claim the balls assuredly. He will make some blunders in the future, no doubt. But better being proactive and blunder (on the rare occasion), than preferring to be reactive, imho.

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Post #535661  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:27 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose. If Arteta drops Ramsdale he’s an idiot, likewise if he drops Leno he’s also an idiot. If he plays first team players I intend on accusing him of risking Sunday’s result and if he doesn’t I intend on accusing him of being an idiot for not taking the competition seriously.


trying to be cute eh? :42laughter:

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Post #535662  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:54 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose. If Arteta drops Ramsdale he’s an idiot, likewise if he drops Leno he’s also an idiot. If he plays first team players I intend on accusing him of risking Sunday’s result and if he doesn’t I intend on accusing him of being an idiot for not taking the competition seriously.

:laughing7: :laughing7:

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Post #535663  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose.

Mustn’t discount the possibility that the game could be postponed. Might be a nice day now but it only takes an asteroid to hit London in the next couple of hours and they’ll have to call it off. We learned that when Tyrannosaurus Rex Albion vs Triceratops Rovers had to be cancelled 66 million years ago.


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Post #535664  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:39 pm 
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Why is this even a debate? Sol would be a better debate.

https://www.90min.com/posts/ledley-king-vs-tony-adams-arsenal-tottenham?utm_source=RSS

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Post #535665  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:41 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose.

Mustn’t discount the possibility that the game could be postponed. Might be a nice day now but it only takes an asteroid to hit London in the next couple of hours and they’ll have to call it off. We learned that when Tyrannosaurus Rex Albion vs Triceratops Rovers had to be cancelled 66 million years ago.

:14laughter:

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Post #535666  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:56 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:

You mean Sol v Adams? Because Sol v King isn't a debate in my book either.

It is a strange article where they compare the players in 4 categories
1. Modern defender traits
2. tackling and aerial ability
3. ball playing ability
4. reliability

1 and 3 might as well be the same thing. And judging a player from a different era in how they would cope in today's game is illogical. If we used the articles logic then we'd declare Greame Souness an inferior player to Scott Parker because Souness would spend most of his time suspended in the modern game. But of course Souness was one of the finest central midfielders of his generation and if he was playing today wouldn't just go round two footing everyone with gay abandon.

No mention in the article or positional play, pace, strength, leadership.......trophies!?


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Post #535667  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:12 pm 
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Yes, Sol vs Adams. King, may...may get an honorable mention in some lists.

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Post #535668  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm 
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I put a low value on trophies. Trophies are very, very reliant on the other 10 men. Put Messi on Norwich in his prime and he'll score loads but wouldn't be considered one of the greatest ever, if not the greatest because his team wouldn't have won much and definitely no trophies.

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Post #535669  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:59 pm 
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Here is our predicted XI for tonight's tie: Bernd Leno, Cédric Soares, Rob Holding, Pablo Mari, Nuno Tavares, Mohamed Elneny, Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Charlie Patino, Gabriel Martinelli, Eddie Nketiah, Alexandre Lacazette.

The big news from that would be Patino making his competitive debut for the Arsenal senior team.

This from Football London for Arsenal v Wimbledon.

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Post #535670  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:15 pm 
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Ok I’m livid

Arteta has dropped Ramsdale even though he’s currently the best keeper in the world on form. He’s an idiot

In addition to that he’s risked Partey and put the derby at risk whilst not taking this competition seriously enough by playing Tavares and Lokonga.

If we win the coin toss and choose to kick off first that’s a mistake as we should switch ends to confuse the opposition instead or if we do win the toss and choose to switch ends then we aren’t taking the initiative to impose ourselves on the game first. *%^@ you Arteta what are you playing at with these ridiculous coin toss decisions there isn’t a strategy.




.. wow I’m starting to get really good at this ..


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Post #535671  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:29 pm 
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No sign of Patino, Balogun on the bench along with Saka who i thought was carrying an injury?

Wtf?


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Post #535672  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:30 pm 
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Anyone got a link for the game?


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Post #535673  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:31 pm 
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I'm surprised Arteta is playing Partey but I'm assuming he is slowly building up his match fitness? Presumably he will be subbed mid way through the 2nd half.


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Post #535674  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:57 pm 
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Penalty 1-0


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Post #535675  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:58 pm 
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Seems like no channel is showing the game, so no streams. Lacazette jus scored from a penalty after Martinelli was brought down.


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Post #535676  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:00 pm 
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Radio Commentary on Arsenal FC website


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Post #535677  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:01 pm 
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I know we’ve scored but because I can’t get a stream I don’t know what happened for the coin toss. Can anyone let me know what happened


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Post #535678  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:14 pm 
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Radio commentary on 5 Live Extra


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Post #535679  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:14 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Anyone got a link for the game?

Says it's on Sky ?

https://firstsportz.com/football-efl-cu ... ve-stream/


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Post #535680  Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:15 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Looking forward to tonight’s game. I expect us to win, draw or lose.

Mustn’t discount the possibility that the game could be postponed. Might be a nice day now but it only takes an asteroid to hit London in the next couple of hours and they’ll have to call it off. We learned that when Tyrannosaurus Rex Albion vs Triceratops Rovers had to be cancelled 66 million years ago.

Yes, evidently Old Man of Hoy and Long Time Gooner were looking forward to that game.


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