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Post #541601  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:03 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
We did it to ourselves. Started too slowly with too many sideways and backwards passes. Why can't we just seize the initiative as we did against City? We could have scare them from the onset. Instead, we allowed them to tactically paralyse us. Arteta's passive tactics again lost us easy points.

I cant believe Arteta's last words to the team before they go out are to make sure we play plenty of slow sideways and backwards passes, don't worry about pace or penetration and just float some hopeful crosses at their giant CB pair. Sometimes the players just don't play well enough and firing up the sort of energy they did for City at home after playing 3 days ago and a number of this team having come back from niggles and knocks isn't easy.
I'm not defending the fact we couldn't beat Burnley, we should always beat Burnley no matter the circumstances but today I don't think it is tactical, it was poor performances and a complete lack of options to bring in to change things up


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Post #541602  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
We did it to ourselves. Started too slowly with too many sideways and backwards passes. Why can't we just seize the initiative as we did against City? We could have scare them from the onset. Instead, we allowed them to tactically paralyse us. Arteta's passive tactics again lost us easy points.

I cant believe Arteta's last words to the team before they go out are to make sure we play plenty of slow sideways and backwards passes

Wot a div


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Post #541603  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:11 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Not good enough really, even considering the circumstances. The point that we don't win when we don't play well still stands. Our top 4 challenge isn't dead, but this makes it more difficult than it needs to be.

I wouldn't put money on us getting 4th. If Vlahovic doesn't want to come drop it and get someone else. Partey's ridiculous red card came home to roost.

To be honest, I wouldn't put money on any team getting 4th this season... All the teams fighting for it are flawed in different ways.


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Post #541604  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:15 pm 
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It seems like we only get up for tough games. Had we played the first 15 minutes with same sense of urgency of the last 15 minutes we might have gotten something out of it.

Burnley sat back and we were lackadaisical for most of the first half. We had the same game from Burnley last year and lost. I like Tierney a lot but if the same type of crosses aren't working, you gotta improvise and change things up my friend. We kept doing the definition of insanity in some cases: doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Burnley have tall powerful players in the middle. Even Gabriel looks average among them. We weren't going to head many in with them. When we pulled balls back or were in the middle at the top of their box we could have gotten them in trouble with short Lundbergh-esque 2 and 3 meter runs there.

Very, very disappointing considering everything. Burnley are the bottom of the league, we have them at home, it should be a 3 point banker.

We gotta shake this squad up Nketiah caused problems. Maybe he needs a run out? Not sure what use Lokonga was out there.

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Post #541605  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:21 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Not good enough really, even considering the circumstances. The point that we don't win when we don't play well still stands. Our top 4 challenge isn't dead, but this makes it more difficult than it needs to be.

I wouldn't put money on us getting 4th. If Vlahovic doesn't want to come drop it and get someone else. Partey's ridiculous red card came home to roost.


I think Partey would not have made a difference today. He would be too fatigued. He should not have had to play against Pool. Should have been given time to rest for this game.

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Post #541606  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
I wouldn't put money on us getting 4th. If Vlahovic doesn't want to come drop it and get someone else. Partey's ridiculous red card came home to roost.


I think Partey would not have made a difference today. He would be too fatigued. He should not have had to play against Pool. Should have been given time to rest for this game.

If we hadn’t loaned out AMN early in the window we wouldn’t have had to play Partey v Liverpool and he’s at least be an option for today.


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Post #541607  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:24 pm 
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Rich wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
We did it to ourselves. Started too slowly with too many sideways and backwards passes. Why can't we just seize the initiative as we did against City? We could have scare them from the onset. Instead, we allowed them to tactically paralyse us. Arteta's passive tactics again lost us easy points.

I cant believe Arteta's last words to the team before they go out are to make sure we play plenty of slow sideways and backwards passes, don't worry about pace or penetration and just float some hopeful crosses at their giant CB pair. Sometimes the players just don't play well enough and firing up the sort of energy they did for City at home after playing 3 days ago and a number of this team having come back from niggles and knocks isn't easy.
I'm not defending the fact we couldn't beat Burnley, we should always beat Burnley no matter the circumstances but today I don't think it is tactical, it was poor performances and a complete lack of options to bring in to change things up


Ok, I over reacted because I am so disappointed. Easy 3 points on paper, but we dropped 2. I still think we could have played with urgency from the onset, or at the very least, from start of 2nd half.

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Post #541608  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:26 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
It seems like we only get up for tough games. Had we played the first 15 minutes with same sense of urgency of the last 15 minutes we might have gotten something out of it.

Burnley sat back and we were lackadaisical for most of the first half. We had the same game from Burnley last year and lost. I like Tierney a lot but if the same type of crosses aren't working, you gotta improvise and change things up my friend. We kept doing the definition of insanity in some cases: doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Burnley have tall powerful players in the middle. Even Gabriel looks average among them. We weren't going to head many in with them. When we pulled balls back or were in the middle at the top of their box we could have gotten them in trouble with short Lundbergh-esque 2 and 3 meter runs there.

Very, very disappointing considering everything. Burnley are the bottom of the league, we have them at home, it should be a 3 point banker.

We gotta shake this squad up Nketiah caused problems. Maybe he needs a run out? Not sure what use Lokonga was out there.

Lokonga was our only CM, he had to play, just because you play a weaker team at home doesn’t mean you just play 4 attacking mids and 2 strikers.

Also when Liverpool played Burnley earlier in the season Jota scored a header dead centre of the penalty area between their two CB, height is one thing but delivery, speed and movement are far far more important


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Post #541609  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:30 pm 
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How many of our attacks came through the centre?
Are we over reliant on the wing play?
Does that make it easier to set up defensively against us?
Our tactics too easy to read?

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Post #541610  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:38 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
How many of our attacks came through the centre?
Are we over reliant on the wing play?
Does that make it easier to set up defensively against us?
Our tactics too easy to read?


Was saying the same to my son. Why do we always go wide. Why not a sidestep or swerve and shoot?

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Post #541611  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:01 pm 
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https://www.football365.com/news/early- ... aubameyang

Key points:
Burnley should have had a man sent off
Arsenal shouldn’t need a man sent off to win at home to Burnley
Arsenal desperate for a striker!


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Post #541612  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:27 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Arsenal desperate for a striker!

You can say that again. Pay Vlahovic’s agent another couple of million if he joins.


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Post #541613  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:29 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Arsenal desperate for a striker!

You can say that again. Pay Vlahovic’s agent another couple of million if he joins.

Any striker right now will do. Broja on loan at Southampton from Chelsea is better than what we have. There are probably 20 strikers in the Prem alone I’d rather have


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Post #541614  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:31 pm 
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https://twitter.com/wowcancelo/status/1 ... 74178?s=21

Another weekend and another interfering var ref. Seems to happen quite often where the onfield ref calls it as he sees it and then var gets involved and wants to try to find something in any incident. As soon as var tells the onfield ref to view the monitor the initial decision is going to get over turned every time.


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Post #541615  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:32 pm 
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At least Spurs were convincingly beaten by Chelsea 2-0. Keeps spurs behind us on goal difference but with a game in hand.

Wolves up next after the winter break and they’d go above us if they beat us! Could they drag themselves in to the top 4 race?


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Post #541616  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:59 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
I wouldn't put money on us getting 4th. If Vlahovic doesn't want to come drop it and get someone else. Partey's ridiculous red card came home to roost.

To be honest, I wouldn't put money on any team getting 4th this season... All the teams fighting for it are flawed in different ways.

That's a good point. What is disappointing is that both Spuds and Man U have been so poor that they sacked their managers yet we are still probably an outside bet for 4th.

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Post #541617  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:43 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
I wouldn't put money on us getting 4th. If Vlahovic doesn't want to come drop it and get someone else. Partey's ridiculous red card came home to roost.


I think Partey would not have made a difference today. He would be too fatigued. He should not have had to play against Pool. Should have been given time to rest for this game.


Totally crazy to play him midweek. You could have given him 2 days off and come into this game fresh and it could have been the difference between winning or drawing trust me.

You just don’t have the players to compete so eventually you are simply pretending you can.

I’d take Shane long on loan right now. Honestly Lacazette misses a chance every week that your most bog average striker puts away. It’s simply crazy, he slashes wildly at everything. Ffs Lacazette take a breath

Artetas comments on transfers kind of indicate to me the club are afraid of creating a long term problem with a short term fix like we’ve done in the past.

All in all 4th is still on but the summer and next season are the big moment for the manager and the current regime. After that the honeymoon period will be over. Next seasons squad has to be built to compete


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Post #541618  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:46 pm 
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I think our inability to win when playing poorly is going to cost us 4th.
If I was to put all our league games in categories this season you could have:

Lost and played poorly: Brentford, Chelsea, City(a), Everton, Liverpool
Lost and played average: Man U
Lost and played well: City(h)

Drew and played poorly: Palace, Brighton, Burnley (h)

Won and played well: Spurs, Villa, Leicester, Southampton, West Ham, Leeds, Norwich (a)
Won and played average: Burnley (a), Norwich (h), Watford (h), Newcastle (h)
Win and played poorly:

I think that is 13 out of 21 games where we've been average or poor and we've only won 4 of them.


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Post #541619  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:49 pm 
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Read that Tammy Abraham has 12 goals in his last 12 games for Roma. We went for him and I think for sure he'd have joined us over Roma but we couldn't get Aubameyang/Lacazette/Nketiah off the books. That has cost us this year. Even if it wasn't Abraham, another forward was surely on the wish list but only if we move those guys on.


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Post #541620  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:52 pm 
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I also think we missed a trick by not moving for Patson Daka in the summer. £20m, very young, has a good set of attributes for a CF. He's better than anything we currently have.


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Post #541621  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:21 pm 
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Vlahovic isn't coming is he. Why would he, apart from a big pay day. He'll have better options in the summer.

If he's watched the last 3 games he definitely isn't coming.

I admire our pluck in trying to sign him but lets move on to a more realistic target because let's face it we aint finishing top four without a topclass CF coming in.


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Post #541622  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:26 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Vlahovic isn't coming is he. Why would he, apart from a big pay day. He'll have better options in the summer.

If he's watched the last 3 games he definitely isn't coming.

I admire our pluck in trying to sign him but lets move on to a more realistic target because let's face it we aint finishing top four without a topclass CF coming in.

And he doesn’t really want to play for us anyway does he? Simply ‘doing us a favour’ by picking up his paycheque.

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Post #541623  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:26 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Vlahovic isn't coming is he. Why would he, apart from a big pay day. He'll have better options in the summer.

If he's watched the last 3 games he definitely isn't coming.

I admire our pluck in trying to sign him but lets move on to a more realistic target because let's face it we aint finishing top four without a topclass CF coming in.

Yep, and I don’t think you even need a top class one either

Highly unlikely he’s coming this type of transfer in January is very difficult


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Post #541624  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:28 pm 
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Alexandre Lacksathreat more like. That miss was appalling.

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Post #541625  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:32 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:

Totally crazy to play him midweek. You could have given him 2 days off and come into this game fresh and it could have been the difference between winning or drawing trust me.



Playing Partey was a high stakes gamble. Definately a risky long shot but there was a chance of a Wembley final and a significant boost for the rest of the season if we prevailed. Clearly the decision bit Arteta on the arse today as we were desperate for a midfielder who could progess the ball rather than go back and sideways. Then again Partey may of only been setting up Lacazette or Nketiah to miss. Talking of hindsight, the decision to keep hold of Nketiah seems really daft.


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Post #541626  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:34 pm 
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Rich wrote:
At least Spurs were convincingly beaten by Chelsea 2-0. Keeps spurs behind us on goal difference but with a game in hand.

Wolves up next after the winter break and they’d go above us if they beat us! Could they drag themselves in to the top 4 race?
They will most likely beat us so the answer is yes.

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Post #541627  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:37 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Alexandre Lacksathreat more like. That miss was appalling.

There’s one a week. Watch it again

https://twitter.com/pablosali/status/14 ... 36770?s=21

V Liverpool. Look at this one, after he misses he screams at the Lino for not calling him off , he was on !

https://twitter.com/messimx30ii/status/ ... 14632?s=21


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Post #541628  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:41 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Read that Tammy Abraham has 12 goals in his last 12 games for Roma. We went for him and I think for sure he'd have joined us over Roma but we couldn't get Aubameyang/Lacazette/Nketiah off the books. That has cost us this year. Even if it wasn't Abraham, another forward was surely on the wish list but only if we move those guys on.

Why do we have to move any of them on to sign a forward this window? Lacazette and Nketiah will both be leaving for nothing in the summer. I suppose we might be able to get some sort of fee for Aubameyang if he goes to Saudi Arabia, but I’ve little or no doubt we won’t see the back of him until the summer whether we get a transfer fee or not.

We surely have to sign a forward now whether or not Lacazette, Nketiah or Aubameyang remain on the books.


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Post #541629  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:44 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Ahh but you miss the point I'm making , I'm not saying our mob is as good ...that's laughable .

I said not too inferior ...... what I meant was swap any of our players .... under Klopp's tutelage for a couple of months would perform just as well as the former ..
.... couple of exceptions .

Apart from saying their are a couple of exceptions, I have to agree with you kiwi. I think it’s too simplistic to list all Liverpool’s players and claim none of ours compare. There are rumours Liverpool want to buy Saka, and Klopp has talked glowingly of Martinelli more than once. Under Klopp would they get plenty of games at Liverpool? I bet they would. Ødegaard at Liverpool under Klopp would I’m sure be even better than the outstanding player he is fast becoming at Arsenal.

Who are your exceptions? Because would Xhaka or Partey under Klopp still be making the errors of judgment some accuse them of here? I bet he’d sort it out pretty damn quickly.

Gidday Bernard .... yeah that's much what I'm saying .

Seems to me when we had our great team Bergkamp , Henry , Vieira , Petit , Pires , Campbell etc it seemed we had a team packed with superstars whereas todays Liverpool seem a collection of tradesmen where the whole is greater than the sum of their parts'.

Oxlade Chamberlain ...... classic example . Pretty wayward with us and now knows where he fits the system .

Exceptions ... ? maybe Van Dyke ... maybe because he looks a lot cooler than Gabriel or White :laughing7:


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I’m going to nominate Sakas goal against Man City as the goal of the month : there are no other nominations.

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Post #541631  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:47 pm 
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Bored wrote:
Playing Partey was a high stakes gamble. Definately a risky long shot but there was a chance of a Wembley final and a significant boost for the rest of the season if we prevailed. Clearly the decision bit Arteta on the arse today as we were desperate for a midfielder who could progess the ball rather than go back and sideways. Then again Partey may of only been setting up Lacazette or Nketiah to miss. Talking of hindsight, the decision to keep hold of Nketiah seems really daft.

Must admit I’m not as convinced as you presumably are that Partey consistently progresses the ball forward.


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Post #541632  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:02 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I cant believe Arteta's last words to the team before they go out are to make sure we play plenty of slow sideways and backwards passes, don't worry about pace or penetration

:53big-emoticons: Here we go ... we are on the same page Rich .

Picture me 3 AM ... perched om a swivel chair in front a computer monitor watching that schi****zer :blob9: . I nearly went back to bed

Arteta raging about time wasting .... are you kidding ....you've let this collection of d**cks play the ball nonchantly back , sideways , back , sideways , sideways , sideways , back ........ which is a form of time wasting


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Post #541633  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:11 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Exceptions ... ? maybe Van Dyke ... maybe because he looks a lot cooler than Gabriel or White :laughing7:

Must admit, after hearing about what a great passer he was, I haven’t been that impressed with White’s passing so far. I think he’s done well overall, despite the nightmare he had on his debut at Brentford. But I’ve not seen much evidence of outstanding passing from him. There might have been one exceptional pass today, though I’m not certain it was him. But even if it was, I’ve actually been more impressed with his defending than his distribution. Not that that’s a bad thing. I’ve just found his passing usually safe but unspectacular. But from all the talk I was expecting a little more with his passing.

I’m not being unfair by comparing it with Franz Beckenbauer who was on another unrealistic level. Or Bobby Moore. But Ben White’s passing isn’t as good as Peter Simpson’s by a long way. Or using more modern examples, I certainly don’t think he passes it anything like as well as Rio Ferdinand or even Ledley King. Tommy Caton and Pascal Cygan were competent passers. I’d put White’s passing around that sort of level.


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Post #541634  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Exceptions ... ? maybe Van Dyke ... maybe because he looks a lot cooler than Gabriel or White :laughing7:

Must admit, after hearing about what a great passer he was, I haven’t been that impressed with White’s passing so far. I think he’s done well overall, despite the nightmare he had on his debut at Brentford. But I’ve not seen much evidence of outstanding passing from him. There might have been one exceptional pass today, though I’m not certain it was him. But even if it was, I’ve actually been more impressed with his defending than his distribution. Not that that’s a bad thing. I’ve just found his passing usually safe but unspectacular. But from all the talk I was expecting a little more with his passing.

I’m not being unfair by comparing it with Franz Beckenbauer who was on another unrealistic level. Or Bobby Moore. But Ben White’s passing isn’t as good as Peter Simpson’s by a long way. Or using more modern examples, I certainly don’t think he passes it anything like as well as Rio Ferdinand or even Ledley King. Tommy Caton and Pascal Cygan were competent passers. I’d put White’s passing around that sort of level.

From what I’d read about White I don’t think I was expecting 60 yard defence splitting balls, it was more about his all round good technique and comfort with the ball at his feet meaning we can play out of the back and progress the ball accurately and quickly in to midfield breaking the lines. The other aspect was his ability to bring it out from the back with a dribble himself. I’m not sure I’ve seen much evidence of him being one of the best in the league at it but I think he’s been an improvement from what we had.


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Post #541635  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
From what I’d read about White I don’t think I was expecting 60 yard defence splitting balls, it was more about his all round good technique and comfort with the ball at his feet meaning we can play out of the back and progress the ball accurately and quickly in to midfield breaking the lines. The other aspect was his ability to bring it out from the back with a dribble himself. I’m not sure I’ve seen much evidence of him being one of the best in the league at it but I think he’s been an improvement from what we had.

Perhaps my expectations of his passing were unrealistic then. He does have all round good technique. But I don’t think his dribbling out from the back is good enough to make me feel comfortable when he does it.


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Post #541636  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:31 pm 
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French midfielders this year. Bruno Guimaraes from Lyon is absolute stand out. Also interesting that Guendouzi seems to have his role changed to being almost a pure creator with little defensive responsibility


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Post #541637  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:39 pm 
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Rich wrote:
French midfielders this year. Bruno Guimaraes from Lyon is absolute stand out. Also interesting that Guendouzi seems to have his role changed to being almost a pure creator with little defensive responsibility

I have watched extended highlights of some of the games he has been involved in and you are correct. He is not a defensive midfielder

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Post #541638  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Bored wrote:
Playing Partey was a high stakes gamble. Definately a risky long shot but there was a chance of a Wembley final and a significant boost for the rest of the season if we prevailed. Clearly the decision bit Arteta on the arse today as we were desperate for a midfielder who could progess the ball rather than go back and sideways. Then again Partey may of only been setting up Lacazette or Nketiah to miss. Talking of hindsight, the decision to keep hold of Nketiah seems really daft.

Must admit I’m not as convinced as you presumably are that Partey consistently progresses the ball forward.


I didnt say he consistently progresses the ball forward. But given Liverpool boxed us in so comprehensively I could understand the thinking if he was brought on to at least try and get the ball forward.


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Post #541639  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:31 pm 
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The Chelsea first goal is an example of why simple yellow card offences matter early in games. Tanganga was booked and when Hudson-Odoi turned him and ran past him a lot of defenders would see the dangerous situation and take the booking for the team, Tanganga couldn’t do Hudson-Odoi advanced further and eventually found the pass to Ziyech who scored. This situation feels like it is what the yellow card was invented for.


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Post #541640  Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:12 am
Posts: 3893
Location: Melbourne

Rich wrote:
Since Jan 2019
Games played
Arsenal 114 Burnley 111

Fouls
Arsenal 1131 Burnley 1111

Red cards
Arsenal 14 Burnley 0

Arsenal have accounted for 11% of all prem red cards over the last 3 years


I'd be interested in the stat for how many of those Red's (or 2nd yellows) were unfortunate or borderline vs those that were from outright stupidity. I recall a lot of them being the latter.


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