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Post #538161  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:24 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
You missed the united goal then. One midfielder setting up another midfielder to score.

No I didn’t miss that United goal. Nor did I miss a young wide player setting up a young midfielder to score for us. Fernandez obviously has talent but often doesn’t produce. Just as people can say of some of our players.

31 goals and 22 assists in the last 3 seasons for Fernandes in the league alone. We haven’t got a midfielder in our squad that can contribute like that right now. May as well be honest Bernard than pretending it’s all on our strikers.

Like i said, If it doesn’t come from our wingers or full backs we don’t create enough, hence the famous half circle of frustration graphic


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Post #538162  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:48 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No I didn’t miss that United goal. Nor did I miss a young wide player setting up a young midfielder to score for us. Fernandez obviously has talent but often doesn’t produce. Just as people can say of some of our players.

31 goals and 22 assists in the last 3 seasons for Fernandes in the league alone. We haven’t got a midfielder in our squad that can contribute like that right now. May as well be honest Bernard than pretending it’s all on our strikers.

Like i said, If it doesn’t come from our wingers or full backs we don’t create enough, hence the famous half circle of frustration graphic

If Fernandez played for us, with Arsenal’s forwards he would not have those types of stats. You said something along those lines earlier today. It is ludicrous to put a lack of creativity only down to midfielders. Forwards need to make themselves available for chances. You’ve either changed your mind or are arguing against something you implied yourself.


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Post #538163  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:01 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
31 goals and 22 assists in the last 3 seasons for Fernandes in the league alone. We haven’t got a midfielder in our squad that can contribute like that right now. May as well be honest Bernard than pretending it’s all on our strikers.

Like i said, If it doesn’t come from our wingers or full backs we don’t create enough, hence the famous half circle of frustration graphic

If Fernandez played for us, with Arsenal’s forwards he would not have those types of stats. You said something along those lines earlier today. It is ludicrous to put a lack of creativity only down to midfielders. Forwards need to make themselves available for chances. You’ve either changed your mind or are arguing against something you implied yourself.


No creativity comes from all over the pitch but in the centre of the park we are weak. It’s plain too see, not just the strikers . Vieira and cesc scored over 30 goals for us. I can’t see many of our midfielders like partey or lokonga doing those figures

Like I said our strikers poor form is only part of our overall issue.


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Post #538164  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:28 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
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Balogun showed at Brentford he’s totally put of his depth and you want to play him at old Trafford?


I've only seen Balogun a couple of times and he looked lost each time.

Surely Balogun has had just 1 senior start at brentford - when the entire team was awful and we're pretty much playing with a brand new team. The only other time I've seen Balogun in the first team was a couple of sub appearances in Europa last year where he scored albeit against weak opposition.

I don't think Balogun is the answer to our problems as he is very raw but given time I think he has a skillset that much better suits what Arteta and most modern managers want from their forwards.

What we really miss upfront is someone with some strength so that they can ensure we play with 11 men when we have the ball.


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Post #538165  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:35 am 
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A familiar issue from last night, playing well, score and then completely go in to our shells, we stop pressing, we sit deeper and cede control of the game. Arteta isn't telling the team to do this, he's said as much in interviews. I think it is a lack of experience and confidence in the team. This is still a young team and it is a great shame at the moment that the experienced heads in the team are not playing well or are not the sort to shout and organise.

Another thing was when Smith Rowe scored and it looked like the ref was going to give De Gea the free kick Arsenal players were just happily lining up in their positions ready for the free kick, we should have had someone right by the ref explaining why he had to give the goal. We're still too nice in certain situations, wanting to just play 100% football - but there is far more to a game of football than just kicking the ball. Go on other fans forums after they play City and look how they moan about City being so dirty with rotational fouling and stopping counters.


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Post #538166  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:46 am 
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I think it mostly boils down to that the team doesn’t have any ruthless killers anymore. We have young triers who can run all day, provide great effort and through sheer desire beat teams. At the highest level that will only get you so far.

I look at the team and feel it needs a van Persie type clinical finisher and a player like Cazorla who can produce a moment of quality to cut a team open.

If you think back to the Valencia game where aubameyang was still in his pomp and destroyed them with some elite finishing. Cesc in the san siro. We just don’t have that talisman anymore who can win those tight games outright.

We bring effort, desire and despite what some of the wallys in our fanbase say organisation. We miss a bit of guile and experience

Might be good enough to get 4h or 5th but to take on the top 4 you need some sheer villains to win away from home and match winners. I just look at our team and don’t see ruthless match winners and to acquire one or two might be very expensive.


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Post #538167  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:22 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I think it mostly boils down to that the team doesn’t have any ruthless killers anymore. We have young triers who can run all day, provide great effort and through sheer desire beat teams. At the highest level that will only get you so far.

I look at the team and feel it needs a van Persie type clinical finisher and a player like Cazorla who can produce a moment of quality to cut a team open.

If you think back to the Valencia game where aubameyang was still in his pomp and destroyed them with some elite finishing. Cesc in the san siro. We just don’t have that talisman anymore who can win those tight games outright.

We bring effort, desire and despite what some of the wallys in our fanbase say organisation. We miss a bit of guile and experience

Might be good enough to get 4h or 5th but to take on the top 4 you need some sheer villains to win away from home and match winners. I just look at our team and don’t see ruthless match winners and to acquire one or two might be very expensive.


Ironically, Guendozi could have played that role

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Post #538168  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:42 pm 
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Annoyed to not get at least a point last night. It was easily there for the taking. Feels far worse than any of our other defeats where we were clearly second best in each.
Next 6 are:

Everton A
Southampton H
West Ham H
Leeds United A
Sunderland H (cup)
Norwich A

Need to be targeting 13 points from the 4 league games


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Post #538169  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:18 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Ironically, Guendozi could have played that role

On that one I agree with you gooner7. I realise people claim he’s a difficult character. But if his personality is genuinely that flawed, why is he the captain of the French Under 21 team, or is it the Under 23 team? I can’t remember but I know he’s been made the captain of one of them.

Also, why is Deschamps including Guendouzi in the squad for the full French team? He must know something about what makes a fine midfielder, including in terms of psychological make up, as that’s exactly what he was himself. Furthermore when Marseille’s regulator captain hasn’t played, their manager has made Guendouzi the captain.

As a player he’s got good ball control as well as being a fine passer over long and short distances. His work rate isn’t equaled by many, and he competes. I realise Guendouzi has very likely played his last game for us, but in my view (I’m absolutely aware that this opinion won’t be shared by many here, or even any), getting rid of him has so far been Arteta’s biggest mistake as manager.


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Post #538170  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:34 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I look at the team and feel it needs a van Persie type clinical finisher and a player like Cazorla who can produce a moment of quality to cut a team open.

Cesc in the san siro.

You also mentioned Vieira earlier. I’m never sure about comparing current players with some of the best to have played for the club. It seems to me a bit like saying White and Gabriel aren’t as good as Campbell or Adams. If you’re going to talk of van Persie, you might as well go the whole way and mention Henry, for me the greatest Arsenal player over the 54 years I’ve been going. It would be brilliant to find another player at Henry’s level, but I suggest it’s extremely unlikely. What we should be aiming to do is find someone at Aubameyang’s former level. That’s more realistic than finding a forward who is comparable to Henry, or for midfielders Vieira.


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Post #538171  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:28 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I look at the team and feel it needs a van Persie type clinical finisher and a player like Cazorla who can produce a moment of quality to cut a team open.

Cesc in the san siro.

You also mentioned Vieira earlier. I’m never sure about comparing current players with some of the best to have played for the club. It seems to me a bit like saying White and Gabriel aren’t as good as Campbell or Adams. If you’re going to talk of van Persie, you might as well go the whole way and mention Henry, for me the greatest Arsenal player over the 54 years I’ve been going. It would be brilliant to find another player at Henry’s level, but I suggest it’s extremely unlikely. What we should be aiming to do is find someone at Aubameyang’s former level. That’s more realistic than finding a forward who is comparable to Henry, or for midfielders Vieira.

But I didnt say Henry. I said van persie.

To be honest I don’t think you even you need to say the greats. I saw us linked with Calvert lewin this morning and whilst I don’t think he would be the most awe inspiring signing I think he would add structure to our attack and provide a threat. However my original point remains, I don’t think we have a player in the squad who really pulls it out the bag when we need something.


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Post #538172  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:32 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I think it mostly boils down to that the team doesn’t have any ruthless killers anymore. We have young triers who can run all day, provide great effort and through sheer desire beat teams. At the highest level that will only get you so far.

I look at the team and feel it needs a van Persie type clinical finisher and a player like Cazorla who can produce a moment of quality to cut a team open.

If you think back to the Valencia game where aubameyang was still in his pomp and destroyed them with some elite finishing. Cesc in the san siro. We just don’t have that talisman anymore who can win those tight games outright.

We bring effort, desire and despite what some of the wallys in our fanbase say organisation. We miss a bit of guile and experience

Might be good enough to get 4h or 5th but to take on the top 4 you need some sheer villains to win away from home and match winners. I just look at our team and don’t see ruthless match winners and to acquire one or two might be very expensive.


Ironically, Guendozi could have played that role

Exactly. Would've chimed in with that myself.

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Post #538173  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:41 pm 
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Wobble your head lads. Guendouzi a match winner my arse

Galatasaray ran rings round him the other week.


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Post #538174  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:13 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
You also mentioned Vieira earlier. I’m never sure about comparing current players with some of the best to have played for the club. It seems to me a bit like saying White and Gabriel aren’t as good as Campbell or Adams. If you’re going to talk of van Persie, you might as well go the whole way and mention Henry, for me the greatest Arsenal player over the 54 years I’ve been going. It would be brilliant to find another player at Henry’s level, but I suggest it’s extremely unlikely. What we should be aiming to do is find someone at Aubameyang’s former level. That’s more realistic than finding a forward who is comparable to Henry, or for midfielders Vieira.

But I didnt say Henry. I said van persie.

To be honest I don’t think you even you need to say the greats. I saw us linked with Calvert lewin this morning and whilst I don’t think he would be the most awe inspiring signing I think he would add structure to our attack and provide a threat. However my original point remains, I don’t think we have a player in the squad who really pulls it out the bag when we need something.

I didn’t actually say you did. I just said that by mentioning the likes of Vieira, van Persie and Fabregas you might just as well go the whole hog and mention Henry.


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Post #538175  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:21 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Wobble your head lads. Guendouzi a match winner my arse

Galatasaray ran rings round him the other week.

Are you sure about Galatasery running rings round him? He was given 7.6 out of 10, which made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.

https://www.fotmob.com/match/3714205/li ... -marseille


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Post #538176  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Wobble your head lads. Guendouzi a match winner my arse

Galatasaray ran rings round him the other week.

Are you sure about Galatasery running rings round him? He was given 7.6 out of 10, which made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.

https://www.fotmob.com/match/3714205/li ... -marseille

Who was Marseille’s worst outfield player then?

:toothy9:

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Post #538177  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:33 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Are you sure about Galatasery running rings round him? He was given 7.6 out of 10, which made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.

https://www.fotmob.com/match/3714205/li ... -marseille

Who was Marseille’s worst outfield player then?

:toothy9:

Saliba.


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Post #538178  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:34 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Wobble your head lads. Guendouzi a match winner my arse

Galatasaray ran rings round him the other week.

Are you sure about Galatasery running rings round him? He was given 7.6 out of 10, which made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.

https://www.fotmob.com/match/3714205/li ... -marseille

Regardless of what some website says he was shocking and they were over ran in midfield.


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Post #538179  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:46 pm 
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I reckon we could win the treble one year and Bernard and others would still be lamenting the loss of Guendouzi. :15laughter:


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Post #538180  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:41 pm 
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I don't subscribe to the Athletic but I understand there is an interesting article on Partey's recent form in the current edition.

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Post #538181  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:45 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Are you sure about Galatasery running rings round him? He was given 7.6 out of 10, which made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.

https://www.fotmob.com/match/3714205/li ... -marseille

Regardless of what some website says he was shocking and they were over ran in midfield.

Did you actually see the game? If so on what channel was it and how much was the fee for it?


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Post #538182  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:49 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Regardless of what some website says he was shocking and they were over ran in midfield.

Did you actually see the game? If so on what channel was it and how much was the fee for it?

I watched match highlights on the box

Arteta with the champions league trophy in his hands and holds it aloft ….. but what about guendouzi ! :14laughter: :14laughter:


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Post #538183  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:51 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I reckon we could win the treble one year and Bernard and others would still be lamenting the loss of Guendouzi. :15laughter:

No. But I don’t suppose we will win the treble. As things stand, Guendouzi is a fine player. Good ball control and fine passing. Tremendous energy too, and a competitor. If you refuse to accept that I wonder, like many of your opinions on players, if it’s based on little more than your personal dislike of him.


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Post #538184  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:55 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I watched match highlights on the box

Arteta with the champions league trophy in his hands and holds it aloft ….. but what about guendouzi ! :14laughter: :14laughter:

Ah right. How long were the match highlights? The goals, because what highlights programme showed more than the goals from the Galatasery vs Marseille match?


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Post #538185  Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:58 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I watched match highlights on the box

Arteta with the champions league trophy in his hands and holds it aloft ….. but what about guendouzi ! :14laughter: :14laughter:

Ah right. How long were the match highlights? The goals, because what highlights programme showed more than the goals from the Galatasery vs Marseille match?

Here check it out yourself. Won’t help the weird guendouzi fixation you have but there you go.


https://youtu.be/6yEl9W5jRIA


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Post #538186  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:57 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Ah right. How long were the match highlights? The goals, because what highlights programme showed more than the goals from the Galatasery vs Marseille match?

Here check it out yourself. Won’t help the weird guendouzi fixation you have but there you go.

https://youtu.be/6yEl9W5jRIA

I clicked on your link and nothing opened. But I went to YouTube and found three highlights of the match. One of 2.02 minutes, one of 2.53 minutes and one of 12.26 minutes. I watched the longer one, and it shows much less of the game than 12.26 minutes. But of the parts it did show, what was clear to me is that there was no evidence of Guendouzi being personally overrun.

If anything, the relatively few bits that showed him on the ball made me understand why the match reviewer from the other website made him Marseille’s equal best player on the night.


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Post #538187  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:38 am 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Ironically, Guendozi could have played that role

On that one I agree with you gooner7. I realise people claim he’s a difficult character. But if his personality is genuinely that flawed, why is he the captain of the French Under 21 team, or is it the Under 23 team? I can’t remember but I know he’s been made the captain of one of them.

Also, why is Deschamps including Guendouzi in the squad for the full French team? He must know something about what makes a fine midfielder, including in terms of psychological make up, as that’s exactly what he was himself. Furthermore when Marseille’s regulator captain hasn’t played, their manager has made Guendouzi the captain.

As a player he’s got good ball control as well as being a fine passer over long and short distances. His work rate isn’t equaled by many, and he competes. I realise Guendouzi has very likely played his last game for us, but in my view (I’m absolutely aware that this opinion won’t be shared by many here, or even any), getting rid of him has so far been Arteta’s biggest mistake as manager.


IMO, Arteta got rid of a character, not a player. And that seems his modus operandi. Any young player who dares challenge his opinion are shafted. And I emphasise on "young".

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Post #538188  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:41 am 
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Saw an article where someone in boxing was saying Tyson Fury could beat prime 90s Mike Tyson because he's taller. Hilarioius. 90 percent of Mike's opponents were taller with a longer reach.


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Post #538189  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:42 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Wobble your head lads. Guendouzi a match winner my arse

Galatasaray ran rings round him the other week.


The beauty of this forum is that opinion differs. Otherwise, will be boring.
But wobble my head, no thanks! :42laughter:

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Post #538190  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:26 am 
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I saw a stat that showed Man U only pressured 27 of our 503 passes in the game. Ie Man U didn’t press us, or if they did try to they were miles off as only 27 of our passes were considered ‘under pressure’. So our inability to hold on to the ball was far too many unforced errors.


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Post #538191  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:24 am 
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Rich wrote:
I saw a stat that showed Man U only pressured 27 of our 503 passes in the game. Ie Man U didn’t press us, or if they did try to they were miles off as only 27 of our passes were considered ‘under pressure’. So our inability to hold on to the ball was far too many unforced errors.

Widespread panic from all our players. They just seemed to want to not be in possession of the ball for
any period of time. Martenelli was the exception. S-R and Martenelli always seemed to have 2 players on them when they received the ball. Also when Tavares moved forward they often tried to have 2 shutting him down. Meanwhile Aubameyang and Odegarrd just did not get involved. The problem with Partey, particularly in the first half, was that he just continually misplaced passes. The fact that Elneny was better than him for the whole game is a real indictment on Partey. There are some questions over a number of these players. They need to prove themselves in the next 5 games and that means actually performing to a high level, not just try to go thru the motions.

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Post #538192  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:24 am 
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Rich wrote:
I saw a stat that showed Man U only pressured 27 of our 503 passes in the game. Ie Man U didn’t press us, or if they did try to they were miles off as only 27 of our passes were considered ‘under pressure’. So our inability to hold on to the ball was far too many unforced errors.


Not just in football but in all team sports. When the game is played at a high level between elite sides (okay, it may be debatable if either team is elite but you get my meaning), its down to who makes the least mistakes. Mistakes are pounded on and you often more than not pay for it.

Be it Man Utd vs Arsenal, the Super Bowl, CL final, World Series :icon_mrgreen1:

We missed Saka. Partey could have played a wee bit better in the first half. I am a little surprised at the number of mistakes he makes. It's often not critical mistakes that cost us a goal but needless ones and unforced for a person of his quality at this level. To be fair, Vieira would make the most inane passing errors as well, but he more than made up for them (Giggs goal aside, which Keane said in a show once, 'why didn't you guys just foul him?...good point).

Well, we have a decent run of games that should yield good results and put us in a great position in the new year.

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Post #538193  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:22 pm 
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Seems very odd for Aubameyang to like Ronaldo’s celebratory post on Instagram after Manchester United had just beaten the team representing the club he captains. Okay, Aubameyang may admire Ronaldo. I do myself. After all, he was probably one of the two greatest players of his generation, albeit in my view in second place after Messi. But is that a reason to like Ronaldo’s post celebrating Manchester United’s defeat of Arsenal?

Not in my opinion. Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think it enhances the perception of Aubameyang as sporting either. To me it makes him look a berk. I would expect more from an Arsenal captain in terms of respecting not only the club but the fans, not just those across the world but those who spent their hard earned money to go to Old Trafford.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun ... -post/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... senal.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 07454/amp/


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Post #538194  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:53 pm 
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Why Arsenal are the weirdest, most volatile team of the modern era

https://www.espn.com.au/sports/soccer/i ... modern-era

Image

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Post #538195  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:42 pm 
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The West Ham is shaping up to be a real challenge.

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Post #538196  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:16 pm 
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warrior wrote:
Why Arsenal are the weirdest, most volatile team of the modern era

https://www.espn.com.au/sports/soccer/i ... modern-era

Image

This bit right at the end made sense sadly

…if you remove Arsenal's best and worst performances, their xG differential in the remaining matches is still below average. So even if you do remove the blowouts, what you're left with is not a very good team."

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Post #538197  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Seems very odd for Aubameyang to like Ronaldo’s celebratory post on Instagram after Manchester United had just beaten the team representing the club he captains. Okay, Aubameyang may admire Ronaldo. I do myself. After all, he was probably one of the two greatest players of his generation, albeit in my view in second place after Messi. But is that a reason to like Ronaldo’s post celebrating Manchester United’s defeat of Arsenal?

Not in my opinion. Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t think it enhances the perception of Aubameyang as sporting either. To me it makes him look a berk. I would expect more from an Arsenal captain in terms of respecting not only the club but the fans, not just those across the world but those who spent their hard earned money to go to Old Trafford.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun ... -post/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailym ... senal.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 07454/amp/

I agree Bernard, a berk, I'd even go so far as to say a pillock.


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Post #538198  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:12 pm 
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Just read that West Ham have beaten Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Utd, Tottenham and Leicester this season. That’s sensational. Almost glad I’m missing the inevitable disappointment of the home game as it’s my sons school play.

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Post #538199  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:27 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Just read that West Ham have beaten Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Utd, Tottenham and Leicester this season. That’s sensational. Almost glad I’m missing the inevitable disappointment of the home game as it’s my sons school play.

They look a far more completed project than we do.

Good management, good recruitment, and being given a ‘free’ stadium.

Actually our recruitment looks quite good. The best half of our side is the incomers. Just need to repeat that trick in the upcoming windows.

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Post #538200  Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:42 pm 
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Just two U21 sides left in the Papa John’s Trophy. Us (with Balogun) and Chelsea.

And guess who we’ve just drawn in the third round.

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