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Post #558041  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:16 am 
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Rich wrote:
Salah has gone off the boil so much, at times he can barely control the ball. It’s part of the reason I’d never have him in the top tier of Prem greats. The very best were great every season. Think of Henry, pretty much unplayable from 10 games in to his Arsenal career until when he left


I think Mané leaving was the tipping point. He had so much more room to move and a great strike partner to provide the assists. That plus the rather weak and very old midfield, he just isn’t getting the service he once did. Personally I think he just looks bloody knackered along with a lot of the Liverpool squad. Gegenpressing takes a toll I guess.

P.s. Henry was a superstar absolutely no doubt. But compare the physical toll then vs now. I was watching some of the invincible season the other day and was amazed at how wide open the game was with at times almost no pressure on the ball.


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Post #558042  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:22 am 
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Utd and Spurs are the big winners of the weekend
We missed the chance to widen our lead
Good to have an off day at a time when the key chasers are off too

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Post #558043  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 6:44 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
Rich wrote:
Salah has gone off the boil so much, at times he can barely control the ball. It’s part of the reason I’d never have him in the top tier of Prem greats. The very best were great every season. Think of Henry, pretty much unplayable from 10 games in to his Arsenal career until when he left


I think Mané leaving was the tipping point. He had so much more room to move and a great strike partner to provide the assists. That plus the rather weak and very old midfield, he just isn’t getting the service he once did. Personally I think he just looks bloody knackered along with a lot of the Liverpool squad. Gegenpressing takes a toll I guess.

P.s. Henry was a superstar absolutely no doubt. But compare the physical toll then vs now. I was watching some of the invincible season the other day and was amazed at how wide open the game was with at times almost no pressure on the ball.

Perhaps even further back when they didn’t replace Winaldum, very underrated player in that Liverpool system, got through a lot of work. Henderson’s legs have gone. Thiago never had any legs, Fabinho’s form has dropped off a cliff, Keita gives the ball away too easily, Ox is either injured or not disciplined enough to play CM and the rest are kids…..meanwhile Klopp has spent millions trying to bring the next wave through in his attacking 3, Diaz, Jota and Nunez for £160m


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Post #558044  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:45 am 
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After they scored I left the TV and went out to the mall. I did the same when Chelsea equalized in the 2nd tie of the ECL game in 2004. I knew...just knew...we weren't going to come back and it was too painful for me to watch it. Some may criticize not finishing to watch a game before its over, I really couldn't give an eff. We all deal with emotional things differently. It's not hurting anyone doing so.

I wasn't going to watch the Tottenham v City game because I was expecting City to seize that opportunity. I got a message to tune in to the game around the 76th minute and it was 1-0 and after the Tottenham red card, I turned it off again. haha.

Before the Man Utd game were not widely seen as probably champions. A decent amount of people thought we could but there were still plenty of people who thought City would catch us. That all changed after the Man Utd win. We were now seen as the team to beat for sure and likely champions.

People looked pass the cup defeat in some part because we were playing away and played a weakened side. Everton was the first game we were playing where the media and the players mentally I'm guessing were playing for a title in earnest instead of a 'lets just get past each game as they come' and what happens...happens.

One thing this squad has to learn is that when you are in that seat, the cat bird's seat, the team that most people think will win it, the target on your back gets bigger. We were a decent scalp before the Man Utd game and City were the slightly bigger scalp. You beat us its great, you beat City its fantastic.

Of all clubs Tottenham gave us a get out of jail free card. They must have mixed feelings about that win. They may have handed us the title and they know it.

So, the games this weekend told the squad, that EVERY league game is a cup final. This squad has learned what the '98-'04 sides knew all too well. Everyone wants a piece of them.

The Tottenham v City game told us that quite possibly City aren't up to it. It's never easy going to Tottenham and winning. They are a good side, but we did it and they couldn't. City came out of that with not only a missed opportunity but there are doubts that they are up for this title run because they didn't capitalize. Not even a point.

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Post #558045  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:49 am 
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Don’t know why the Everton home game hasn’t been re-arranged yet. Both teams are out of the FA Cup and in FA cup 5th round week (feb 28th) there are no prem games scheduled. So just slot the game in there. I’d much rather play the game now than try to squeeze it in midweek towards the end of the season. Most other postponed games have been re-arranged and played.

It’s still a big if but if we won that Everton game as our game in hand and beat City at home in 9 days time then we’d open up an 11 point lead. That would be really something.


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Post #558046  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:50 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
Rich wrote:
Salah has gone off the boil so much, at times he can barely control the ball. It’s part of the reason I’d never have him in the top tier of Prem greats. The very best were great every season. Think of Henry, pretty much unplayable from 10 games in to his Arsenal career until when he left


I think Mané leaving was the tipping point. He had so much more room to move and a great strike partner to provide the assists. That plus the rather weak and very old midfield, he just isn’t getting the service he once did. Personally I think he just looks bloody knackered along with a lot of the Liverpool squad. Gegenpressing takes a toll I guess.

P.s. Henry was a superstar absolutely no doubt. But compare the physical toll then vs now. I was watching some of the invincible season the other day and was amazed at how wide open the game was with at times almost no pressure on the ball.


Hi granty,

I think the league is so much harder now than in the Invincible days. The amount of money spent means that every single team have a few players that can hurt you. If you are not right at it every single week even the lowest teams can take points off you. Even if you are right at it the opposition invariably have a few players who on any given day can produce something extraordinary and if it happens to be on the day you play them then there's not a lot you can do.

The pace of the game has increased and the pressing has intensified, keepers are good with their feet and teams play out from the back. The only thing I would say is that players are a little better protected now than they were in the Invincible days.


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Post #558047  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:33 am 
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I wonder if City will get a points deduction

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Post #558048  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:44 am 
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Rich wrote:
grantyboy wrote:

I think Mané leaving was the tipping point. He had so much more room to move and a great strike partner to provide the assists. That plus the rather weak and very old midfield, he just isn’t getting the service he once did. Personally I think he just looks bloody knackered along with a lot of the Liverpool squad. Gegenpressing takes a toll I guess.

P.s. Henry was a superstar absolutely no doubt. But compare the physical toll then vs now. I was watching some of the invincible season the other day and was amazed at how wide open the game was with at times almost no pressure on the ball.

Perhaps even further back when they didn’t replace Winaldum, very underrated player in that Liverpool system, got through a lot of work. Henderson’s legs have gone. Thiago never had any legs, Fabinho’s form has dropped off a cliff, Keita gives the ball away too easily, Ox is either injured or not disciplined enough to play CM and the rest are kids…..meanwhile Klopp has spent millions trying to bring the next wave through in his attacking 3, Diaz, Jota and Nunez for £160m


I'd add Milner to that list who I think was also very underrated utility player as he could play almost anywhere and would do a good job at covering missing players. Not glamorous or super technical but he got the job done. He's in the Henderson category now.

Oh and Fermino is another one who isn't the same player without Mané. They were a great unit but I think Mané was the one that made them so much more as a collective.


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Post #558049  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:54 am 
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socrates wrote:
grantyboy wrote:

I think Mané leaving was the tipping point. He had so much more room to move and a great strike partner to provide the assists. That plus the rather weak and very old midfield, he just isn’t getting the service he once did. Personally I think he just looks bloody knackered along with a lot of the Liverpool squad. Gegenpressing takes a toll I guess.

P.s. Henry was a superstar absolutely no doubt. But compare the physical toll then vs now. I was watching some of the invincible season the other day and was amazed at how wide open the game was with at times almost no pressure on the ball.


Hi granty,

I think the league is so much harder now than in the Invincible days. The amount of money spent means that every single team have a few players that can hurt you. If you are not right at it every single week even the lowest teams can take points off you. Even if you are right at it the opposition invariably have a few players who on any given day can produce something extraordinary and if it happens to be on the day you play them then there's not a lot you can do.

The pace of the game has increased and the pressing has intensified, keepers are good with their feet and teams play out from the back. The only thing I would say is that players are a little better protected now than they were in the Invincible days.


Gidday Soc, I do wish you'd choose a new persona cos every time I watch tv and a documentary, history or something similar bloody Socrates pops up and I end up thinking of your avatar. :laughing7:

But I'd agree with what you've mentioned above. Everything about the game today is totally different. The modern players are faster, stronger, more technical, better tactics. Even the ball from back then probably feels like a medicine ball to current players.. Despite a truckload of pundit's being from that era and spouting "well in my day" while spitting tobacco (Sounnes, Keane, Neville, etc) they would get annihilated by all but the worst PL teams now.


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Post #558050  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:58 am 
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Parkerknoll Gooner wrote:
I wonder if City will get a points deduction


They might get a fine. A points deduction they already have courtesy of spurs. Who I thought thoroughly deserved their win btw.

Edit: Oh you mean the news about FFP :1laughter:


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Post #558051  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:17 am 
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Problems mounting for Abu Dhabi City:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536785

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Post #558052  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:31 am 
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john1 wrote:
Problems mounting for Abu Dhabi City:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536785


and like the FIFA 'investigation' I highly doubt anything meaningful will happen. Their accounts will throw up a bunch of shell companies and super complex hierarchies of money flows to distance from the know fact that they were pumping billions of 'Etihad' dollars straight into the club.

Chelsea I thought were just as bad over the last 15 years with Abramovic writing cheques after transfer window.


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Post #558053  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:51 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
john1 wrote:
Problems mounting for Abu Dhabi City:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536785


and like the FIFA 'investigation' I highly doubt anything meaningful will happen. Their accounts will throw up a bunch of shell companies and super complex hierarchies of money flows to distance from the know fact that they were pumping billions of 'Etihad' dollars straight into the club.

Chelsea I thought were just as bad over the last 15 years with Abramovic writing cheques after transfer window.


You’re probably right, but we can hope.

Just the guilt by association issues denigrate their achievements; it’s nice to see the suspicions/knowledge backed up by an official investigation.

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Post #558054  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:16 pm 
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Just realised they’ve won 6 PL titles since being doped, would not have guessed that many, suppose that proves how disengaged I’ve become with the whole circus. It is kind of ironic that this should happen right after the chavs latest spending spree.

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Post #558055  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:15 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Problems mounting for Abu Dhabi City:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536785


Quote:
The commission can impose punishments ranging from a fine and points deduction to expulsion from the Premier League.


My money is on nothing happening.

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Post #558056  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 3:28 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
john1 wrote:
Problems mounting for Abu Dhabi City:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64536785


Quote:
The commission can impose punishments ranging from a fine and points deduction to expulsion from the Premier League.


My money is on nothing happening.


I honestly think this one has legs.

Der Spiegel have been banging on about all this for years. Thanks to some Portuguese hacker, they have reams and reams of detailed and well-documented evidence. UEFA brought a case based on the findings but City were able to win an appeal based on statute of limitations. Those time limitations don't apply here.

Squeaky bum time at The Etihad.


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Post #558057  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:17 pm 
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john1 wrote:
grantyboy wrote:

and like the FIFA 'investigation' I highly doubt anything meaningful will happen. Their accounts will throw up a bunch of shell companies and super complex hierarchies of money flows to distance from the know fact that they were pumping billions of 'Etihad' dollars straight into the club.

Chelsea I thought were just as bad over the last 15 years with Abramovic writing cheques after transfer window.


You’re probably right, but we can hope.

Just the guilt by association issues denigrate their achievements; it’s nice to see the suspicions/knowledge backed up by an official investigation.


A nice round of grubby articles that take the shine off would be nice. Hopefully the opposition supporters chime in with some annoying repetitive chants of “cheats”. :toothy9:


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Post #558058  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:19 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Gunfire wrote:



My money is on nothing happening.


I honestly think this one has legs.

Der Spiegel have been banging on about all this for years. Thanks to some Portuguese hacker, they have reams and reams of detailed and well-documented evidence. UEFA brought a case based on the findings but City were able to win an appeal based on statute of limitations. Those time limitations don't apply here.

Squeaky bum time at The Etihad.


Let’s also hope that guardiola gets lots of questions about it and the team lose their focus because they’re worried the tax man is going to start poring over their inflated salaries.


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Post #558059  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:29 pm 
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City relegated, spending, endorsements, player recruitments limited, Pep walks away.

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Post #558060  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:44 pm 
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Under 18s live on AFC site FA Youth Cup action.

2-0 down at half time now 4-2 up with 15 mins of 2nd half to go.

They could teach the first team a few things :42laughter:


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Post #558061  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:55 pm 
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Now this is bang out of order. Too ridiculous.


Attachments:


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Post #558062  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:47 pm 
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My take on Man City and the recent allegations is pretty simple:
1) what are the intentions of the FFP rules? Answer, to stop artificial investment beyond the normal spending means of the club. Ie: you can only worn what you earn.
2) do Man City genuinely earn an amount of income to justify FFP regulations?
3) or are most of Man City’s incomes simply just a wedge of money shoved through the tills by the owner?

You can twist it however you want but we all know the reason why FFP was introduced, and City and Chelsea have exploited those rules for a number of years


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Post #558063  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:56 am 
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Rich wrote:
My take on Man City and the recent allegations is pretty simple:
1) what are the intentions of the FFP rules? Answer, to stop artificial investment beyond the normal spending means of the club. Ie: you can only worn what you earn.
2) do Man City genuinely earn an amount of income to justify FFP regulations?
3) or are most of Man City’s incomes simply just a wedge of money shoved through the tills by the owner?

You can twist it however you want but we all know the reason why FFP was introduced, and City and Chelsea have exploited those rules for a number of years


Whisper it quietly but that’s also why they (along with Kroenket) wanted to create that super league ridiculousness. Spend as much as you want and split the enourmous profits amongst a smaller majorit ly without contributing anything to the smaller clubs.


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Post #558064  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:24 am 
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Had we won the Everton game as expected, I'd have gone into this Brentford match mildly fearful of a bad result. Now? I am obviously a bit more worried as Brentford is a much better team and has some top 6 scalps to its name.

I hope...or I think we will go into this next game like a cup final. I'm hoping and I tend to think we are now going to be more focused. I don't see Man Utd catching us but City has to have a genuine fear of them. Man Utd are only 3 points behind them. 8 behind us with us having a game in hand and not having to play them in the league (but a chance in the Europa cup).

I wouldn't necessarily count Man Utd out of runner up. If City catches us then its we that might have to worry about being 3rd behind both Manchester sides.

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Post #558065  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:48 am 
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I would assume that the evidence the Premier League have compiled on City is watertight or they will look a proper bunch of Charlies when City's high powered lawyers tie them up in knots, as they did with UEFA.


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Post #558066  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:00 am 
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If the evidence of City cooking the books is proven then don't the PL have to kick out City's owners for no longer being a fit and proper owner, or whatever the term they use is.

City would effectively be unable to participate in the PL unless they sell up and the owners are replaced by some who do pass the Premier League's fit and proper owner tests.

I mean, how could you continue to let them run the club if they have been proven to be cheats who ignore the PL's rules?


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Post #558067  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:41 am 
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DHD wrote:

I honestly think this one has legs.

Der Spiegel have been banging on about all this for years. Thanks to some Portuguese hacker, they have reams and reams of detailed and well-documented evidence. UEFA brought a case based on the findings but City were able to win an appeal based on statute of limitations. Those time limitations don't apply here.

Squeaky bum time at The Etihad.


Now that I have read more I think you might be right. 100 different charges. Seemingly the KC setting up the commission to "try" this is a season ticket holder at the Emirates. :7laughter:

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Post #558068  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:47 am 
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64515741

Quote:
Across Europe's top five leagues, only Erling Haaland, Harry Kane and Victor Osimhen have scored more than Balogun this season.

Reims had only won one game when Still replaced Oscar Garcia as manager, initially as caretaker, on 13 October - and are unbeaten since.

But Balogun's form has been impressive throughout, starting his time in France with five goals in his first six games under Garcia.

The 21-year-old's importance to this Reims team cannot be underestimated. He has scored 54% of their league goals (14 out of 26) - a higher share of any player for a team in Europe's top five leagues.

Only six Reims players haves scored in the league this season. Their next top scorer, Junya Ito, has scored four times.

"He is a super complete striker," said Still. "He is able to play with his back to goal and deep. He scores, he is decisive."

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Post #558069  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:41 am 
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A change of ownership at City might not be a good thing for those who detest the idea of a Super League or a league with no relegation. The Americans like that idea, and once they own the majority of Premiership clubs, it will come.

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Post #558070  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:25 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64515741

Quote:
Across Europe's top five leagues, only Erling Haaland, Harry Kane and Victor Osimhen have scored more than Balogun this season.

Reims had only won one game when Still replaced Oscar Garcia as manager, initially as caretaker, on 13 October - and are unbeaten since.

But Balogun's form has been impressive throughout, starting his time in France with five goals in his first six games under Garcia.

The 21-year-old's importance to this Reims team cannot be underestimated. He has scored 54% of their league goals (14 out of 26) - a higher share of any player for a team in Europe's top five leagues.

Only six Reims players haves scored in the league this season. Their next top scorer, Junya Ito, has scored four times.

"He is a super complete striker," said Still. "He is able to play with his back to goal and deep. He scores, he is decisive."

The tale behind the manager Will Still is even more remarkable.

https://en.as.com/soccer/who-is-will-st ... manager-n/

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Post #558071  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:10 pm 
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socrates wrote:
If the evidence of City cooking the books is proven then don't the PL have to kick out City's owners for no longer being a fit and proper owner, or whatever the term they use is.

City would effectively be unable to participate in the PL unless they sell up and the owners are replaced by some who do pass the Premier League's fit and proper owner tests.

I mean, how could you continue to let them run the club if they have been proven to be cheats who ignore the PL's rules?


The owners of Newcastle literally had Jamal Khashoggi hacked to pieces like he was a Christmas ham.

This seems a bit fanciful what are you expecting mate :laughing7:


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Post #558072  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:37 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
If the evidence of City cooking the books is proven then don't the PL have to kick out City's owners for no longer being a fit and proper owner, or whatever the term they use is.

City would effectively be unable to participate in the PL unless they sell up and the owners are replaced by some who do pass the Premier League's fit and proper owner tests.

I mean, how could you continue to let them run the club if they have been proven to be cheats who ignore the PL's rules?


The owners of Newcastle literally had Jamal Khashoggi hacked to pieces like he was a Christmas ham.

This seems a bit fanciful what are you expecting mate :laughing7:

Yes, I'm not sure that any post referencing the appalling death of Jamal Khashoggi needs that chuckle emoji, but the idea of City being forced to sell up as unfit owners does seem a tad unlikely.

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Post #558073  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:35 pm 
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The Italian clubs were caught actually rigging games. The worst of the worst of offenses. As despicable as City did it doesn't rise to that in the minds of those who will make the decision. Likely? A huge fine and not missing 1 or 2 transfer windows. No point deduction, no forfeit of games. That's my best guess going by how I've seen these things pan out in the past.

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Post #558074  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:47 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
The Italian clubs were caught actually rigging games. The worst of the worst of offenses. As despicable as City did it doesn't rise to that in the minds of those who will make the decision. Likely? A huge fine and not missing 1 or 2 transfer windows. No point deduction, no forfeit of games. That's my best guess going by how I've seen these things pan out in the past.

There’s over 100 charges, it will be a points deduction. They’ve been paying their staff via secret contracts and for 8 years didn’t disclose any financial information for FFP. Every club in the league would complain and it would show even when found guilty FFP doesn’t work. That’s if it can be proved and it will take years too.


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Post #558075  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:12 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
The Italian clubs were caught actually rigging games. The worst of the worst of offenses. As despicable as City did it doesn't rise to that in the minds of those who will make the decision. Likely? A huge fine and not missing 1 or 2 transfer windows. No point deduction, no forfeit of games. That's my best guess going by how I've seen these things pan out in the past.

There’s over 100 charges, it will be a points deduction. They’ve been paying their staff via secret contracts and for 8 years didn’t disclose any financial information for FFP. Every club in the league would complain and it would show even when found guilty FFP doesn’t work. That’s if it can be proved and it will take years too.


If proven it has to be at the very least a massive points deduction, enough to relegate then, otherwise every other club might as well throw away the rule book because any punishment does not fit the crime and you might as well flout the rules if all you will get is a fine or a small points deduction.

If proven then they've basically cheated their way to several titles and silverware. The Premier League will lose all credibilty if they do nothing of any consequence.


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Post #558076  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:28 pm 
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Everton home game rescheduled for wed March 1st.
4 of our next 6 league games are now at home.


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Post #558077  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:09 pm 
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No way the charges would be brought if it wasn't a certainty. And its not about if City should have points deducted. They full deserve to be if the charges are true and they appear to be. I am a bit cynical and money, marketing, etc, has always guided decisions it seems. I just don't think the league will do it. I don't think the league, the FA UEFA care enough to do that. There is nothing but the 'death penalty' automatic relegation for what Juve and the other clubs did.

It goes to the heart of the integrity of the game. So much money has been spent by the biggest clubs that I think fans don't see it as bad anymore. Chelsea has spent over half a million in several months and its supposed to be all legal...so far. City brings in revenue for EPL in viewership globally.

The cynic in me says they will not have points taken or forfeit games. Massive fine and no transfers for a window or two. I'd be somewhat surprised if more than that. Hopefully they will surprise me.

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Post #558078  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:01 pm 
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Another penalty they may do is no European football or a year or two. I can see that happening as well. I'd very surprised at point reduction because I don't think they have the balls to do it. If it happens, its us, Man Utd and Newcastle top 3.

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Post #558079  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:46 pm 
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The thing with the City stuff is it kind of has to be no punishment or huge punishment. Imagine they just get a big fine or even (as sky report) a small points deduction. If it was say 5 point deduction then everything they’ve done is totally worth just 5 points, it says you’re guilty of buying 6 prem titles so we’ll take 5 points off you. Punishment doesn’t fit the crime.

I have no idea how this plays out.


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Post #558080  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:24 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Gunfire wrote:

Jesus give it a rest ffs!

But it’s true. How much have you seen in the media about Liverpool this year? How many difficult questions for Klopp?

Probably because I'm guessing you live near London ....... the papers main focus will always be West Ham . Tott , Chelsea , Arse .

We lived in Kent and at one stage I spent about six months working in Manchester upgrading a little chemical plant ;

I was amazed at the total immersion with events Man U, City , Oldham........it was if Arsenal Spurs Chelsea didn't exist .


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