Fixtures Thursday February 10th - Wolves - Molineux - 7:45 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                    Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:01 pm

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: Bernard, Rich and 22 guests

 
Post #538441  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Darren wrote:
I really want it to work fro Arteta but I'm now convinced it won't. Yes, there are still holes in the squad at CM and certainly in the final third but it can also be true the manager isn't maximising what he has at his disposal. I think the problems are more three dimensional than just the manager or just the missing pieces in the team. It's a collective issue, but at some point we probably need to acknowledge that the manager could very well be a part of the malaise at the club.

I'm not going to call for his head yet, despite being really pissed off over the last couple of games, but I think unless there's a turnaround this could be his last season in charge.


It really shouldn’t be disregarded he’s part of the problem but what constitutes failure on his part for you?

For me to finish 8th or below really would scream to me he’s not up to it and change has to come. If he’s 5th or 6th then really can we complain?

I thought wengers project yoof was a young side but by comparison our current lot are babies and I feel that with a few more Ingredients that’s a decent recipe brewing.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538442  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Other thing I was pondering was do you think on reflection Emery was treated unfairly at Arsenal?

He had it as hard as Mikel as he had to endure duff players on contracts we could not move. Had no say in transfer policy. He never really had the option of refreshing the squad and despite the fact we were hopeless by the time he left you can’t help think that that appointment we made after wenger was always going to be a manager sacked in no time at all.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538443  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:38 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

If we find ourselves at the end of the season losing or moving on Lacazette, Aubameyang, Xhaka, Elneny, Kolasinac, Chambers, AMN and Holding then that would be an entire full first team squad turnover from Wenger’s last game. Has any club ever turned over its entire playing staff in 4 years? That’s pretty crazy for a non oil rich or newly rich team.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538444  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 13269

TOP GUN wrote:

It really shouldn’t be disregarded he’s part of the problem but what constitutes failure on his part for you?

For me to finish 8th or below really would scream to me he’s not up to it and change has to come. If he’s 5th or 6th then really can we complain?

I thought wengers project yoof was a young side but by comparison our current lot are babies and I feel that with a few more Ingredients that’s a decent recipe brewing.

I think 8th or lower, as you suggest, although I would possibly suggest 7th is a failure too. We need to be back in Europe proper and I think failure to do that should see him leave. It's hard though and, by and large, I agree with your view of things, especially how as fans we're prone to over reaction and knee jerk opinions.

_________________
There's a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538445  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 13269

TOP GUN wrote:
Other thing I was pondering was do you think on reflection Emery was treated unfairly at Arsenal?

He had it as hard as Mikel as he had to endure duff players on contracts we could not move. Had no say in transfer policy. He never really had the option of refreshing the squad and despite the fact we were hopeless by the time he left you can’t help think that that appointment we made after wenger was always going to be a manager sacked in no time at all.

I think he was on a hiding to nothing. We stunk the place out under him but I really do hold many of the players accountable for this. They downed tools.

_________________
There's a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538446  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:52 pm
Posts: 13269

long time gooner wrote:
Darren wrote:
I really want it to work fro Arteta but I'm now convinced it won't. Yes, there are still holes in the squad at CM and certainly in the final third but it can also be true the manager isn't maximising what he has at his disposal. I think the problems are more three dimensional than just the manager or just the missing pieces in the team. It's a collective issue, but at some point we probably need to acknowledge that the manager could very well be a part of the malaise at the club.

I'm not going to call for his head yet, despite being really pissed off over the last couple of games, but I think unless there's a turnaround this could be his last season in charge.

I’m continuing to wonder a lack of man management skills are a problem. He now has a growing track record of alienating players and this is combined with a seeming inability to inspire players. He looks like a rookie manager.

I just listened to the latest Arsecast Extra nd they mentioned this. They suggested it's almost as if there needs to be a villian within the squad at any time. Not sure I totlly agree with this as generally the players who've been alienated have been bad apples. I think the Pépé thing though is purely form based. He's been *%^@ when playing this season.

_________________
There's a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538447  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

It really shouldn’t be disregarded he’s part of the problem but what constitutes failure on his part for you?

For me to finish 8th or below really would scream to me he’s not up to it and change has to come. If he’s 5th or 6th then really can we complain?

I thought wengers project yoof was a young side but by comparison our current lot are babies and I feel that with a few more Ingredients that’s a decent recipe brewing.

I think 8th or lower, as you suggest, although I would possibly suggest 7th is a failure too. We need to be back in Europe proper and I think failure to do that should see him leave. It's hard though and, by and large, I agree with your view of things, especially how as fans we're prone to over reaction and knee jerk opinions.


It’s weird because it’s as you say a multi faceted problem. Not a single issue.

Yesterday I was screaming at Arteta for not giving Pépé 30 minutes to run at Godfrey who was on a yellow. Ridiculous decision, then bringing on Tavares who hasn’t convinced away from home and all of a Sudden we are all at sea, then nketiah blah blah. Just divvy stuff

Then You go to a game be it Newcastle at home or villa on that Friday night, have a great time get home after a few beers eats and laughs and find people losing their mind on the internet about inconsequential substitution or something ? Or trying to convince everyone that the 7 matches we have won were all flukes.

It’s all got a bit tiresome


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538448  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

long time gooner wrote:
Darren wrote:
I really want it to work fro Arteta but I'm now convinced it won't. Yes, there are still holes in the squad at CM and certainly in the final third but it can also be true the manager isn't maximising what he has at his disposal. I think the problems are more three dimensional than just the manager or just the missing pieces in the team. It's a collective issue, but at some point we probably need to acknowledge that the manager could very well be a part of the malaise at the club.

I'm not going to call for his head yet, despite being really pissed off over the last couple of games, but I think unless there's a turnaround this could be his last season in charge.

I’m continuing to wonder a lack of man management skills are a problem. He now has a growing track record of alienating players and this is combined with a seeming inability to inspire players. He looks like a rookie manager.


The only player I could say has a genuine claim to feel alienated is probably Ainsley Maitland Nile’s who came into midfield, Did well and was dropped for the next game. He looks far more conditioned to play central midfield than Lokonga right now. He didn’t even make the bench yesterday, I mean that’s absurd. He has a right to hold a grudge imo.

I don’t really buy into the continual stewards enquiry about martinelli getting minutes and thought he was poor yesterday. Arteta changes the team and gets accused of tinkering all the time, keeps the same side and gets accused of having favourites and alienating people. Can’t win


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538449  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 31522

What place in the table is the bare minimum for Arteta to be able to keep his job?
What if he finishes mid table but we win a cup?

_________________
"Never relegated, Never Will Be" :)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538450  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 7:56 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

TOP GUN wrote:
Yesterday I was screaming at Arteta for not giving Pépé 30 minutes to run at Godfrey who was on a yellow. Ridiculous decision, then bringing on Tavares who hasn’t convinced away from home and all of a Sudden we are all at sea, then nketiah blah blah. Just divvy stuff

You’d have to think the Tavares one was pre planned or Tierney had a knock or just being cautious with him. Strange though that Xhaka lasted the full 90.
On the Pépé thing I’m not sure I’ve seen Pépé ‘run at’ a defender who is on a yellow to try to commit him and get a 2nd yellow. Saka is the man to do that in the squad


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538451  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yesterday I was screaming at Arteta for not giving Pépé 30 minutes to run at Godfrey who was on a yellow. Ridiculous decision, then bringing on Tavares who hasn’t convinced away from home and all of a Sudden we are all at sea, then nketiah blah blah. Just divvy stuff

You’d have to think the Tavares one was pre planned or Tierney had a knock or just being cautious with him. Strange though that Xhaka lasted the full 90.
On the Pépé thing I’m not sure I’ve seen Pépé ‘run at’ a defender who is on a yellow to try to commit him and get a 2nd yellow. Saka is the man to do that in the squad


Pépé can run a full back 1 on 1 as equally as well especially when Saka has had his ankles turned into putty by the 70th minute.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538452  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:35 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

Apparently Spurs have a covid outbreak in their squad and are trying to get their next league game postponed. No chance should that be allowed as the precedent has already been set by not postponing our game with Brentford when we had a covid outbreak.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538453  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:36 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
You’d have to think the Tavares one was pre planned or Tierney had a knock or just being cautious with him. Strange though that Xhaka lasted the full 90.
On the Pépé thing I’m not sure I’ve seen Pépé ‘run at’ a defender who is on a yellow to try to commit him and get a 2nd yellow. Saka is the man to do that in the squad


Pépé can run a full back 1 on 1 as equally as well especially when Saka has had his ankles turned into putty by the 70th minute.

How often does Pépé ever get his full back 1 v 1 and backpedaling and panicking towards the safety of his own penalty area as Pépé sways one way then the other driving towards goal all the while?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538454  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Pépé can run a full back 1 on 1 as equally as well especially when Saka has had his ankles turned into putty by the 70th minute.

How often does Pépé ever get his full back 1 v 1 and backpedaling and panicking towards the safety of his own penalty area as Pépé sways one way then the other driving towards goal all the while?


48 seconds

https://youtu.be/X0LRQA3F0b4


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538455  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 12241
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

long time gooner wrote:
Darren wrote:
I really want it to work fro Arteta but I'm now convinced it won't. Yes, there are still holes in the squad at CM and certainly in the final third but it can also be true the manager isn't maximising what he has at his disposal. I think the problems are more three dimensional than just the manager or just the missing pieces in the team. It's a collective issue, but at some point we probably need to acknowledge that the manager could very well be a part of the malaise at the club.

I'm not going to call for his head yet, despite being really pissed off over the last couple of games, but I think unless there's a turnaround this could be his last season in charge.

I’m continuing to wonder a lack of man management skills are a problem. He looks like a rookie manager.


and a rookie manager who can't bore a dose of reality up his players .

Never mind the loss ; my beef is when players don't have a go ....... just when we thought we had "" turned the proverbial corner " we cop a few robust challenges and an egghead like Richarlison runs riot ....... and the " Arsenal are a soft touch chorus resurfaces "

"Bring back Wenger " .... please ........we need a Roy Keane , Alan Ball figure in the dressing room .... playing or coaching



NB the challenge on Tomyasu was a disgrace that pr**ck should have five games on the touchline .


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538456  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 12241
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

TOP GUN wrote:

I don’t really buy into the continual stewards enquiry about martinelli getting minutes and thought he was poor yesterday.


:laughing7: The tubby bloke Robbie who does Arse TV said he was one of our best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc-BCLt ... annel=AFTV


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538457  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:49 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 9988

Darren wrote:
I think 8th or lower, as you suggest, although I would possibly suggest 7th is a failure too. We need to be back in Europe proper and I think failure to do that should see him leave. It's hard though and, by and large, I agree with your view of things, especially how as fans we're prone to over reaction and knee jerk opinions.

I fully agree there is too much overreaction to the last game. A good win doesn’t mean we’re brilliant just like a bad loss doesn’t mean we’re useless. I’ve made exactly that point quite recently. My theory is it’s the age of social media that’s a reason for it. People are elated after winning and deflated after losing and the opportunity to express their happiness and dissatisfaction instantaneously on a multitude of forums and chat rooms is at the end of their fingertips. Fans no doubt have always had the same emotions after a game, but social media has given the opportunity to get their feelings read far and wide across the world.

What is more relevant is to look at things on a longer term basis than the last game or two. I do feel some of us do that, with my use of ‘us’ meaning I consider myself amongst them. With the 27 man squad we have, I honestly believe there are managers who could be getting more out of them than Arteta is. Considering the time Manchester United have had until sacking OGS, which shows how changing managers can benefit a club, we should be in with a real chance of fourth place, not just a Europa League position.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538458  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

kiwipete wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I don’t really buy into the continual stewards enquiry about martinelli getting minutes and thought he was poor yesterday.


:laughing7: The tubby bloke Robbie who does Arse TV said he was one of our best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc-BCLt ... annel=AFTV


Mate in the top right hand corner of that video is an advert discount code for 20% off a device used for shaving your balls.

I’m not sure you can take them seriously :1laughter:


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538459  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 19606

I really don't think we've been convincing at all this season, or anytime under Arteta really. Even the games we've won have tended to be close calls in the end where we could easily have drawn or lost given our inability to create enough chances and score enough goals. Yes, we've had the odd blistering spell here and there, like in the first half against Tottenham and Leicester, but even in those games we were largely outplayed in the 2nd half and but for some outstanding keeping, some last ditch defending and the odd slice of good fortune might have allowed them to get something out of the game.

It feels like we are going down the Solskaer path with Arteta doing just about enough after each downturn in results to keep the wolf from the door but most people thinking the job is probably too big for him. A few unconvincing wins followed by some disasterclasses. Rinse and repeat.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538460  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:10 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
How often does Pépé ever get his full back 1 v 1 and backpedaling and panicking towards the safety of his own penalty area as Pépé sways one way then the other driving towards goal all the while?


48 seconds

https://youtu.be/X0LRQA3F0b4

Of course there are examples of him doing it, you’ve had to go back 14 months to find an example though, my point was that is not something you see Pépé do regularly. So wanting him on to run at Godfrey might not have proven dividends.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538461  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Of course there are examples of him doing it, you’ve had to go back 14 months to find an example though, my point was that is not something you see Pépé do regularly. So wanting him on to run at Godfrey might not have proven dividends.

He does it all the time and if anything his main problem is trying to commit his full back too much rather than laying it off or keeping it simple which is why he’s not in the side right now.

I genuinely wonder if anyone watches Arsenal here


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538462  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 19606

Bernard wrote:
Darren wrote:
I think 8th or lower, as you suggest, although I would possibly suggest 7th is a failure too. We need to be back in Europe proper and I think failure to do that should see him leave. It's hard though and, by and large, I agree with your view of things, especially how as fans we're prone to over reaction and knee jerk opinions.

I fully agree there is too much overreaction to the last game. A good win doesn’t mean we’re brilliant just like a bad loss doesn’t mean we’re useless. I’ve made exactly that point quite recently. My theory is it’s the age of social media that’s a reason for it. People are elated after winning and deflated after losing and the opportunity to express their happiness and dissatisfaction instantaneously on a multitude of forums and chat rooms is at the end of their fingertips. Fans no doubt have always had the same emotions after a game, but social media has given the opportunity to get their feelings read far and wide across the world.

What is more relevant is to look at things on a longer term basis than the last game or two. I do feel some of us do that, with my use of ‘us’ meaning I consider myself amongst them. With the 27 man squad we have, I honestly believe there are managers who could be getting more out of them than Arteta is. Considering the time Manchester United have had until sacking OGS, which shows how changing managers can benefit a club, we should be in with a real chance of fourth place, not just a Europa League position.


Hi Bernard,

There is an overreaction to each game taken in isolation, largely as you said because of social media. However, the bigger picture is that even during our winning run of games we have failed to really convince.

Arteta seems unable to create any consistent attacking pattern of play. Our attacking outlets consist mainly of Tierney or Tavares overlapping down the left or individual brilliance from Saka or Emile Smith Rowe.

Yesterday we spent the first half passing sideways and backwards despite having most of the possession. It was just boring, predictable, uninspirational football.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538463  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 15472
Location: Stockholm

socrates wrote:
There is an overreaction to each game taken in isolation, largely as you said because of social media. However, the bigger picture is that even during our winning run of games we have failed to really convince.

Exactly, and the overreactions go both ways. If we had managed to hold on to 1-0 yesterday and had gotten the win, no doubt some would say it was job done and it doesn't matter how you win as long as you get the three points. One game taken in isolation that is true - you won't always play blinding football, and it takes all sorts of wins over the course of a season to get a good league finish - but when scrappy wins are the norm rather than the exception it points to larger issues with the team that one quite frankly have to be blind not to see.

Out of our seven wins this season, four of them are against teams currently in place 17-20 in the league, and in only one of those games we won by more than one goal. The other three wins I won't criticise, they were excellent performances against good sides. Sure, we dropped off in the second halves against Tottenham and Leicester, but we could afford to do so after playing them off the park and getting rather comfortable leads.

But taking our league performances as a whole so far, it just hasn't been convincing enough and in the long run there's only so far you get by riding your luck and getting scrappy wins. Sooner or later you'll get punished. Man Utd got second place last season, but watching them play it looked obvious that wasn't sustainable, which this season has shown.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538464  Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 12241
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

TOP GUN wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

:laughing7: The tubby bloke Robbie who does Arse TV said he was one of our best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc-BCLt ... annel=AFTV


Mate in the top right hand corner of that video is an advert discount code for 20% off a device used for shaving your balls.

I’m not sure you can take them seriously :1laughter:

:53big-emoticons: :laughing7:


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538465  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:12 am
Posts: 3818
Location: Melbourne

TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
How often does Pépé ever get his full back 1 v 1 and backpedaling and panicking towards the safety of his own penalty area as Pépé sways one way then the other driving towards goal all the while?


48 seconds

https://youtu.be/X0LRQA3F0b4


Pépé has been rubbish for ages, usually quite brainless and is barely an upgrade on Walcott.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538466  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:12 am
Posts: 3818
Location: Melbourne

socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I fully agree there is too much overreaction to the last game. A good win doesn’t mean we’re brilliant just like a bad loss doesn’t mean we’re useless. I’ve made exactly that point quite recently. My theory is it’s the age of social media that’s a reason for it. People are elated after winning and deflated after losing and the opportunity to express their happiness and dissatisfaction instantaneously on a multitude of forums and chat rooms is at the end of their fingertips. Fans no doubt have always had the same emotions after a game, but social media has given the opportunity to get their feelings read far and wide across the world.

What is more relevant is to look at things on a longer term basis than the last game or two. I do feel some of us do that, with my use of ‘us’ meaning I consider myself amongst them. With the 27 man squad we have, I honestly believe there are managers who could be getting more out of them than Arteta is. Considering the time Manchester United have had until sacking OGS, which shows how changing managers can benefit a club, we should be in with a real chance of fourth place, not just a Europa League position.


Hi Bernard,

There is an overreaction to each game taken in isolation, largely as you said because of social media. However, the bigger picture is that even during our winning run of games we have failed to really convince.

Arteta seems unable to create any consistent attacking pattern of play. Our attacking outlets consist mainly of Tierney or Tavares overlapping down the left or individual brilliance from Saka or Emile Smith Rowe.

Yesterday we spent the first half passing sideways and backwards despite having most of the possession. It was just boring, predictable, uninspirational football.



I think your point about the bigger picture is the right one. There are some things that I thought Arteta had been doing well but many of those things are now going into reverse. I also like almost all of the players that have been introduced.

But if we just take a view of the table and how that appears relative to Arsenal, we're flattering to deceive even in 7th.
Man Utd. A bloody mess this season and above us in the league.
Tottenham - Total shambles and now above us in the league with a game in hand.
West Ham - Average on paper but a manager with the same amount of time and less money has a team performing above us in the league (and giving the Top 4 a bloody good run)
Goals for and against. On both metrics we have a record that is similar to Villa, Brentford and Crystal Palace who are down in 10th, 13th and 14th respectively. Wolves in 8th and who can't attack either but have let in 9 less goals than us.

After Villa's narrow loss against City, Gerrard isn't saying how they'll learn from this, he'd told his players at half time "you're giving them too much respect". He's saying this after they almost beat one of the best teams in the league.

Our position at 4th was flattering to deceive and gave a false sense of hope but the reality is that Arsenal could easily be much lower in the table.

I said it at the beginning of the season when we were bottom that Arteta had until Christmas to prove himself capable of leading the club forward. So far he's shown glimpses of what is possible which again give some hope. Like the high intensity/high press game that Rich has mentioned a few times. But he needs to get that every single game and like Gerrard is telling Villa, give it a bloody go.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538467  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:12 am
Posts: 3818
Location: Melbourne

TOP GUN wrote:
Other thing I was pondering was do you think on reflection Emery was treated unfairly at Arsenal?

He had it as hard as Mikel as he had to endure duff players on contracts we could not move. Had no say in transfer policy. He never really had the option of refreshing the squad and despite the fact we were hopeless by the time he left you can’t help think that that appointment we made after wenger was always going to be a manager sacked in no time at all.


I don't. Emery confused the players so much with his tinkering that they ended up being completely paralysed with indecision.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538468  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 10039
Location: Singapore

I dislike the boring football Arteta is making this team play. If it yielded results, then kudos to him. But from the last 2 matches, we gave away initiative when we should have pressed harder for the second goal. Arteta's football is too passive and defensive minded.

_________________
Onwards and Upwards!


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538469  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 31522

I was just reminded that we had a similar ending with then 16 year old Rooney. Remember it well. What if it had not gone in? Yes, he'd still be a major player, but it would have been delayed. The bar in LA I went to were owned by scousers and one of them had a nephew in the youth set up at Everton and knew Rooney for a few years.

_________________
"Never relegated, Never Will Be" :)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538470  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:04 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 20366

gooner7 wrote:
I dislike the boring football Arteta is making this team play. If it yielded results, then kudos to him. But from the last 2 matches, we gave away initiative when we should have pressed harder for the second goal. Arteta's football is too passive and defensive minded.

I’m not totally convinced Arteta is a defensive manager per se, but I do think he tries to structure the attacking patterns so much that it stifles natural off the cuff creativity. It seemed telling that once they equalised we then actually started to play with more freedom and pace, almost as if this was now panicking and so we abandon the managers instructions because we know we desperately need a goal.

I think there is a combination of what Arteta wants us to do attacking wise and us not having the players to do it. For someone schooled under Pep he misses the key ingredient of what Pep does with his players, Henry famously said Pep said to him ‘it’s my job to get the ball to the final third, once it’s there it’s your job to score the goal’ Pep almost hands over the creative part to his players once he himself has manipulated getting the ball in to the final third.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538471  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

We don’t have players who can move the ball up the park quick enough. We need passing midfielders. We have too many similar players who in midfield want to sit and need a Tiago type plus the inexperience of our midfield players doesn’t help. It’s obvious to see. This means that when we move the ball up the pitch we look cautious because the pace of our passing is too slow… then the coach gets blamed for being too cautious.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538472  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 19606

TOP GUN wrote:
We don’t have players who can move the ball up the park quick enough. We need passing midfielders. We have too many similar players who in midfield want to sit and need a Tiago type plus the inexperience of our midfield players doesn’t help. It’s obvious to see. This means that when we move the ball up the pitch we look cautious because the pace of our passing is too slow… then the coach gets blamed for being too cautious.


You can't keep blaming it all on the players. I am certain a better and more experienced coach would get a better tune out of these players.

Can you even explain Arteta's attacking philosophy. It seems to be either get the ball out to Tierney and let him cross the ball in (more often than not to only one player in the box and nobody who can head the ball) or hope Saka or Emile Smith Rowe pull something out of the bag. I thought the whole point of signing White was to move the ball more quickly and with greater quality from defence to attack.

I don't want Arteta to fail because replacing him is such an upheaval but nor do I want to persist with a manager whose performances and results are seemingly less than the sum of the individual parts.

I know that bringing in a topclass foward should make a big difference but we need to have a more exciting approach to the game. Fans are just bored with the dross that is being served up and that means only wins are good enough to appease them.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538473  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
We don’t have players who can move the ball up the park quick enough. We need passing midfielders. We have too many similar players who in midfield want to sit and need a Tiago type plus the inexperience of our midfield players doesn’t help. It’s obvious to see. This means that when we move the ball up the pitch we look cautious because the pace of our passing is too slow… then the coach gets blamed for being too cautious.


You can't keep blaming it all on the players. I am certain a better and more experienced coach would get a better tune out of these players.

Can you even explain Arteta's attacking philosophy.


Sure I can but I’m so bored of writing the same stuff over I'm starting to feel like Mike Tyson trying to teach boxing to a quadriplegic

I’ll point you at this article which is probably the best piece that articulates the approach….

https://le-grove.co.uk/2021/09/16/what- ... long-read/

You can’t really rely on a team of 20 to 23 year olds week in and week out and them not be inconsistent. This won’t change if you change the manager. No chance. We need a couple of older heads in the side one of them being a striker.

There’s no point starting again right now this side isn’t underachieving for what it is, if we drop below to 7th or 8th? By all means go to town.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538474  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:06 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 9988

Rich wrote:
I’m not totally convinced Arteta is a defensive manager per se, but I do think he tries to structure the attacking patterns so much that it stifles natural off the cuff creativity.

I think that’s a very good point Rich. The notion that when we already have Saka, Smith Rowe and Ødegaard, as well as Tierney slinging crosses in, we need more creative players is at best too simplistic and at worst plain daft. It’s the last thing we need. What we do require is a striker putting himself in positions to receive chances created for him, and with the ability to put them away.

We have to remember that two late sitters were created for Nketiah and Aubameyang against Everton. I’m a little uncomfortable moaning about Aubameyang too much because he was once a super player. But he’s moving further and further away from that description. His only excuse for the miss at Goodison was that it may have been the first time he’d touched the ball after coming on. But I don’t feel that’s much of an excuse. Nketiah’s miss was even worse. What was he? Four feet out maybe with an unchallenged header? Okay, he’s not ever going to be a great header of the ball but I’d have expected Warwick Davis to put that one away.

I think there are two things to address if we want more creativity, and neither involves the recruitment of a new creative midfielder because until the two factors are, even Zidane and Platini would struggle to create for the current Arsenal, let alone Saka, Smith Rowe and Ødegaard. A new striker and a change in our style of play to one that doesn’t stifle creativity.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538475  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 19606

TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

You can't keep blaming it all on the players. I am certain a better and more experienced coach would get a better tune out of these players.

Can you even explain Arteta's attacking philosophy.


Sure I can but I’m so bored of writing the same stuff over I'm starting to feel like Mike Tyson trying to teach boxing to a quadriplegic



What a *%^@*** c$%^&@h thing to say. You TG are an utter wanker. Why don't you *%^@ off back to the rock you crawled out from under.

I will tell you what I am bored of, tossers like you who literally have no self awareness at all.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538476  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Sure I can but I’m so bored of writing the same stuff over I'm starting to feel like Mike Tyson trying to teach boxing to a quadriplegic



What a *%^@*** c$%^&@h thing to say. You TG are an utter wanker. Why don't you *%^@ off back to the rock you crawled out from under.

I will tell you what I am bored of, tossers like you literally have no self awareness at all.

Calm down and read the article you Wally there’s no need to resort to abuse. Just saying after a while it gets boring mate.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538477  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 15472
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
Just saying after a while it gets boring mate.

If you tried actually engaging with what other people post in an honest way instead of resorting to distortion, unclever mockery and straw man arguments I bet you'd find it more rewarding.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538478  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 24429

There is a possibility though that Arteta may be as flawed as his squad. Just a thought mind.

https://newsjust24all.com/three-major-d ... Kg5JxjIiTw

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538479  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 24429

socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
We don’t have players who can move the ball up the park quick enough. We need passing midfielders. We have too many similar players who in midfield want to sit and need a Tiago type plus the inexperience of our midfield players doesn’t help. It’s obvious to see. This means that when we move the ball up the pitch we look cautious because the pace of our passing is too slow… then the coach gets blamed for being too cautious.


You can't keep blaming it all on the players. I am certain a better and more experienced coach would get a better tune out of these players.

Can you even explain Arteta's attacking philosophy. It seems to be either get the ball out to Tierney and let him cross the ball in (more often than not to only one player in the box and nobody who can head the ball) or hope Saka or Emile Smith Rowe pull something out of the bag. I thought the whole point of signing White was to move the ball more quickly and with greater quality from defence to attack.

I don't want Arteta to fail because replacing him is such an upheaval but nor do I want to persist with a manager whose performances and results are seemingly less than the sum of the individual parts.

I know that bringing in a topclass foward should make a big difference but we need to have a more exciting approach to the game. Fans are just bored with the dross that is being served up and that means only wins are good enough to appease them.

Fully agree with all of that. A very well presented view.

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #538480  Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 15146

Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Just saying after a while it gets boring mate.

If you tried actually engaging with what other people post in an honest way instead of resorting to distortion, unclever mockery and straw man arguments I bet you'd find it more rewarding.

I’m 100% honest and I have no idea what you mean by distortion. If acknowledging ridiculous suggestions as valid as engaging then I’ll remain to be guilty as charged your honour.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 541873 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 13459, 13460, 13461, 13462, 13463, 13464, 13465 ... 13547  Next

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: Bernard, Rich and 22 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018