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Post #548681  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:22 pm 
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Heard Tuchel wants Raphinha as a wing back. Crazy. If he sticks with his wing back formation, and two central mids Raphinha would probably play one of the two positions behind the striker. They’re favoured striker last year was Havertz.


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Post #548682  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:28 pm 
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It's a shame Gnabry is looking for such massive wages, he'd be a great option as wide forward. Probably not worth breaking our wage structure though, with Saka needing a new deal as well.


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Post #548683  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:54 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Heard Tuchel wants Raphinha as a wing back. Crazy. If he sticks with his wing back formation, and two central mids Raphinha would probably play one of the two positions behind the striker. They’re favoured striker last year was Havertz.

Where does Sterling fit in for them then


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Post #548684  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:17 pm 
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As I've said several times recently, being strongly linked with players is still a long way from actually getting a deal over the line. So many things can go wrong, including a last minute gazumping.

Nobody actually knows the level of our interest in Raphina anyway, it may even be a convenient smokescreen for somebody else. If he was a main target I just hope we have not invested too much time in this and have a back-up plan.

All these people on twatter talking about the best transfer window in our history need to take a chill pill.

Thus far, for all the links with exciting players, we've signed one guaranteed starter and one very promising kid who may or may not be ready yet.

I thought Chelsea's spending might cool with the takeover but maybe not.


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Post #548685  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:22 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Nobody actually knows the level of our interest in Raphina anyway, it may even be a convenient smokescreen for somebody else.

Nah, this part I do think we know. When several reputable journalists report the same thing (us placing bids and negotiating with Leeds) independent of each other, I think that can be taken as solid info. We tried signing Raphinha, but Chelsea stepped in and were prepared to go much higher than us, it happens.

Still plenty of time left though. Martinez looks like a goer, we're clearly pursuing him strongly, and with Man Utd apparently close to signing a left back from Feyenoord, there doesn't seem to be much competition for him at the moment. With both Barcelona and Chelsea interested in Raphinha, it was always going to be risky.


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Post #548686  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:31 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
Nobody actually knows the level of our interest in Raphina anyway, it may even be a convenient smokescreen for somebody else.

Nah, this part I do think we know. When several reputable journalists report the same thing (us placing bids and negotiating with Leeds) independent of each other, I think that can be taken as solid info. We tried signing Raphinha, but Chelsea stepped in and were prepared to go much higher than us, it happens.

Still plenty of time left though. Martinez looks like a goer, we're clearly pursuing him strongly, and with Man Utd apparently close to signing a left back from Feyenoord, there doesn't seem to be much competition for him at the moment. With both Barcelona and Chelsea interested in Raphinha, it was always going to be risky.


Doesn't mean we haven't been talking to other clubs about other players whilst the media concentrate on Raphina.

It's a game of poker.


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Post #548687  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:33 pm 
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It’s a bit of an odd one really. How serious were we?

60 million is huge money for us to spend on a winger. You would think given the Brazilian connection we could have had him if we wanted.

I was excited about the prospect of seeing him but if the club could bring in a dominant midfield player it could have a massive impact

Not sure where this really leaves our summer


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Post #548688  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:42 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Nah, this part I do think we know. When several reputable journalists report the same thing (us placing bids and negotiating with Leeds) independent of each other, I think that can be taken as solid info. We tried signing Raphinha, but Chelsea stepped in and were prepared to go much higher than us, it happens.

Still plenty of time left though. Martinez looks like a goer, we're clearly pursuing him strongly, and with Man Utd apparently close to signing a left back from Feyenoord, there doesn't seem to be much competition for him at the moment. With both Barcelona and Chelsea interested in Raphinha, it was always going to be risky.


Doesn't mean we haven't been talking to other clubs about other players whilst the media concentrate on Raphina.

It's a game of poker.


Our 2nd bid was 15 million less than they wanted. That’s a pretty big gap to fill. There was always a chance of getting gazumped. Did we really think our offers were going to get accepted. You either want him or you don’t.


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Post #548689  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:47 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Doesn't mean we haven't been talking to other clubs about other players whilst the media concentrate on Raphina.

It's a game of poker.

Absolutely, I'm sure we have multiple possible targets going on at the same time. But you don't make the kind of bids we made for Raphinha as a smoke screen, you only do it if you're very serious about getting the player.


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Post #548690  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:50 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a bit of an odd one really. How serious were we?

60 million is huge money for us to spend on a winger. You would think given the Brazilian connection we could have had him if we wanted.

I was excited about the prospect of seeing him but if the club could bring in a dominant midfield player it could have a massive impact

Not sure where this really leaves our summer

I think the question might be "How serious was he?" Initially, he was Barcelona bound but they wouldn't pay the money. We obviously offered more and now Chelsea seem to have topped that.

I'm not particularly disappointed. He's a good player but his best position is right wing and our first choice there is pretty handy. I would much rather we invest the money in central midfield.

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Post #548691  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:55 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Our 2nd bid was 15 million less than they wanted. That’s a pretty big gap to fill. There was always a chance of getting gazumped. Did we really think our offers were going to get accepted. You either want him or you don’t.

I mean, if Chelsea doesn't come in with 65m and Barca can't pay I reckon we could've had him for around 50m (which would still be excellent money for a player unproven at a top club). We obviously mean business in this transfer window, but as we're looking at strengthening several areas of the team and our funds aren't limitless there is a ceiling to every deal.

While this is a bummer, I'm not that worried overall. We're going to sign a few more players, that much looks certain, and there are plenty of good players out there. I wonder if this means we renew our interest in Tielemans.


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Post #548692  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:04 pm 
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Moving away from Raphinha a moment. One interesting thing for me is in January we supposedly went very strong for Vlahovic, it didn’t work and now we have Jesus. They are two very different strikers in almost every way. It would seem strange that we’d change the entire focus and plan for team structure, style of play etc in 6 months.
So either, we were never really that strong for Vlahovic or, we were so you’d assume we still want a striker with a similar profile.


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Post #548693  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:06 pm 
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I still think we need a wide player. There seems to be some games where for whatever reason martinelli is less effective. If Pépé and nelson leave really we only have 2 natural wingers as Emile Smith Rowe and vieira look more like attacking midfielders. I wonder what our options are


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Post #548694  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:09 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Moving away from Raphinha a moment. One interesting thing for me is in January we supposedly went very strong for Vlahovic, it didn’t work and now we have Jesus. They are two very different strikers in almost every way. It would seem strange that we’d change the entire focus and plan for team structure, style of play etc in 6 months.
So either, we were never really that strong for Vlahovic or, we were so you’d assume we still want a striker with a similar profile.


I read an interview with Vlahovic where he said he didn’t even speak to anyone from Arsenal himself. If that’s the case how serious were we. I think there’s so few decent strikers about you have to just choose who is available


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Post #548695  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:26 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a bit of an odd one really. How serious were we?

60 million is huge money for us to spend on a winger. You would think given the Brazilian connection we could have had him if we wanted.

I was excited about the prospect of seeing him but if the club could bring in a dominant midfield player it could have a massive impact

Not sure where this really leaves our summer


If our idea was to assemble a set of high quality interchangeable forwards, without a traditional no.9, rather like both Liverpool and City of recent seasons, then we probably need to look for another player of a similar ilk.

Martinelli and Emile Smith Rowe are both on that developmental curve which means that whilst talented they are frustratingly inconsistent.


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Post #548696  Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:31 pm 
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I see that Dame Deborah James has died from bowel cancer aged 40 leaving her poor young children motherless.

Kind of puts things into perspective.

RIP


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Post #548697  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:59 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I still think we need a wide player. There seems to be some games where for whatever reason martinelli is less effective. If Pépé and nelson leave really we only have 2 natural wingers as Emile Smith Rowe and vieira look more like attacking midfielders. I wonder what our options are

Moussa Diaby, 17 goals and 14 assists for Leverkusen last year, 22, can play wide left or wide right. Newcastle heavily linked. Price is similar to Raphinha
There were links to Gnabry but I think his wages might be prohibitive.

Some of the other right wingers we’ve been linked to seem to have had their great seasons in teams that predominantly counter attack, so they’re using their pace and directness in wide open spaces that they just wouldn’t get in a lot of games for us. I think this is why Raphinha felt a really good fit - he has pace and dribbling ability but can also operate in tight spaces with technique and skill. His workrate is very high as well - as you’d expect from a Bielsa player


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Post #548698  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:20 am 
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I was told by a close friend of Gnabry that he was not willing to leave Germany for family reasons.


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Post #548699  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:41 am 
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To be honest if you offered half the fee for Raphina to Saka to get him to sign a new contract without a release clause I’d prefer that anyway.

Then use the other half to sign another wide player who is a younger prospect or a player more naturally comfortable on the left


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Post #548700  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:04 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a bit of an odd one really. How serious were we?

60 million is huge money for us to spend on a winger. You would think given the Brazilian connection we could have had him if we wanted.

I was excited about the prospect of seeing him but if the club could bring in a dominant midfield player it could have a massive impact

Not sure where this really leaves our summer

I'm not quite getting it right now. We seem to be collecting 5'7 attacking midfielder/winger/no10 types, of which we are fairly well stocked already. Even the defender we are linked to seems rather pint-sized. I would love to see some muscle down the spine.

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Post #548701  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:24 am 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a bit of an odd one really. How serious were we?

60 million is huge money for us to spend on a winger. You would think given the Brazilian connection we could have had him if we wanted.

I was excited about the prospect of seeing him but if the club could bring in a dominant midfield player it could have a massive impact

Not sure where this really leaves our summer

I'm not quite getting it right now. We seem to be collecting 5'7 attacking midfielder/winger/no10 types, of which we are fairly well stocked already. Even the defender we are linked to seems rather pint-sized. I would love to see some muscle down the spine.

We aren’t well stocked

If you sell Nelson and Pépé which I expect you only have 2 natural wingers in the squad in saka and martinelli. Honestly I consider it a minor miracle Saka hasn’t suffered a major injury yet the way he gets kicked so much. You need 1 more to cover both positions.

Also on our left side we are a little unbalanced it can be improved.


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Post #548702  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:31 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I'm not quite getting it right now. We seem to be collecting 5'7 attacking midfielder/winger/no10 types, of which we are fairly well stocked already. Even the defender we are linked to seems rather pint-sized. I would love to see some muscle down the spine.

We aren’t well stocked

If you sell Nelson and Pépé which I expect you only have 2 natural wingers in the squad in saka and martinelli. Honestly I consider it a minor miracle Saka hasn’t suffered a major injury yet the way he gets kicked so much. You need 1 more to cover both positions.

Also on our left side we are a little unbalanced it can be improved.

Fair enough. I just feel that CM and no.9 type would be greater priorities. But I suppose the market is pretty tough.

I'm inclined to trust Edu and Arteta, actually, even if what they are doing is beyond my comprehension.

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Post #548703  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:33 am 
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With no Euroepan experience for a few years and anticipating us trying to balance that and the league, etc, I am not optomistic we will do too well. Probably get out of the group stages but don't think we'll get past 'decent' competition. We don't have the squad depth. We'll end up in the Europa Conference thingy probably. I think we'll still struggle trying to balance the league, domestic trophies and Europe. I hope I'm worried for nothing.

We'll have to wait and see. The league has to be first and foremost for us. It's going to be hard to tell where we may end up. Depends on who we get but also who Tottenham, Chelsea and Man Utd get in the summre window.

I don't think we should rule out West Ham as well. I actually wish them well. My hopes are for Palace though. Always liked them and with Paddy in charge, even more so.

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Post #548704  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:37 am 
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I always knew Kroenke made his money in shopping malls and plazas around America. Like a lot of the 1% in America he's bought up a lot of raw land. They must know something the rest of us don't. Shopping malls and shopping plazas are closing all over America though. Amazon has bought up many of them as distribution points. So, I'm wondering if or where Kroenke has diversified his money into? Raw land, farm land doesn't make much money. The mall business is dying if not dead in America.

https://www.forbes.com/profile/stanley-kroenke/?sh=7d62e3a5742c

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Post #548705  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:56 am 
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Every time I see we are linked with a player and the headline is Arsenal in a fight to get so and so with, take your pick, Tottenham, Chelsea, Man Utd, etc, I assume we won't get the person. If its Liverpool or City, we 99.99% won't.

Not sure if others feel the same. I don't think we can compete for players like we used to. Tottenham may seem a better project than we are these days and that's disappointing to adjust to mentally.

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Post #548706  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:12 am 
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If someone offers £65m for Raphina and that's £15m above your valuation then that's just the game. Walk away and move on to another target.

Are you better paying £65m for Raphina or say £40m for a younger emerging talent + £25m for Tielemans. That's what you have to weigh up, especially where funds are not unlimited.


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Post #548707  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:43 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Not sure if others feel the same. I don't think we can compete for players like we used to. Tottenham may seem a better project than we are these days and that's disappointing to adjust to mentally.

Chelsea and Man Utd are one thing, but Tottenham aren't signing players like Partey, Jesus and Pépé (who was enormously hyped when he signed for us). They're clearly a notch below us in that regard, even in our current state.


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Post #548708  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:48 am 
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socrates wrote:
Are you better paying £65m for Raphina or say £40m for a younger emerging talent + £25m for Tielemans. That's what you have to weigh up, especially where funds are not unlimited.

Exactly this. We can obviously afford £65m, but the question is what impact it would have on our other targets for the summer. Another issue is that Chelsea are reportedly willing to pay most of the £65m up front - with the amount of money we seem willing to spend it this summer we will probably have to be creative with the way we structure those deals in terms of add-ons, paying in installments etc.


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Post #548709  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:15 am 
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Seems like Utd are going all in for Martinez now. The Ten Haag link may prove key. Would be a shame to miss out on two of our reported top three targets after all the hype of the last week or so.

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Post #548710  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:24 am 
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Darren wrote:
Seems like Utd are going all in for Martinez now. The Ten Haag link may prove key. Would be a shame to miss out on two of our reported top three targets after all the hype of the last week or so.

That’s why I’m so dismissive of transfer gossip. My advice remains, wait until signings are confirmed on Arsenal.com before getting too excited. While I accept the photos of Edu and Jesus make it likely he’ll join (assuming they’re genuine and recent), it isn’t impossible that the medical could find a surprise problem or issue with him.


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Post #548711  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:01 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Darren wrote:
Seems like Utd are going all in for Martinez now. The Ten Haag link may prove key. Would be a shame to miss out on two of our reported top three targets after all the hype of the last week or so.

That’s why I’m so dismissive of transfer gossip. My advice remains, wait until signings are confirmed on Arsenal.com before getting too excited. While I accept the photos of Edu and Jesus make it likely he’ll join (assuming they’re genuine and recent), it isn’t impossible that the medical could find a surprise problem or issue with him.

I read it was all done and 100% ok with only the announcement to come. I honestly think sometimes the delays can be due to getting all the social media content ready to go. Working in this area myself these days you shouldn't underestimate how much work is needed to create and edit the little animated announcement videos or the videos of the signing, player being shown around the training ground etc. It would take a good full working day to produce some of this stuff.

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Post #548712  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:09 am 
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Yeah, the Jesus deal is done, it's just that Arsenal are notoriously slow with official announcements of new signings. Several sources have reported the medical is done, and the deal is 100% signed. Don't think that's one we need to worry about.


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Post #548713  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:25 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
Are you better paying £65m for Raphina or say £40m for a younger emerging talent + £25m for Tielemans. That's what you have to weigh up, especially where funds are not unlimited.

Exactly this. We can obviously afford £65m, but the question is what impact it would have on our other targets for the summer. Another issue is that Chelsea are reportedly willing to pay most of the £65m up front - with the amount of money we seem willing to spend it this summer we will probably have to be creative with the way we structure those deals in terms of add-ons, paying in installments etc.

Makes you wonder how Chelsea are balancing their priorities, they could go for £65m Raphinha and Sterling (£50m??) and yet their most pressing needs are CB. They’ve lost Rudiger and Christensen and Azpilicueta is a player I think is in sharp decline. Alonso wants out and Chilwell is coming off a very serious injury. They have Havertz and Werner as their two strikers having binned off Lukaku on loan. Their attacking midfield positions might just be the positions least in need of investment to an outsider.


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Post #548714  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:28 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Yeah, the Jesus deal is done, it's just that Arsenal are notoriously slow with official announcements of new signings. Several sources have reported the medical is done, and the deal is 100% signed. Don't think that's one we need to worry about.

Jess was pictured at London Colney getting out of a car and being hugged and greeted by Edu. It’s definitely done.

Getting a striker in was No.1 priority this window.

I’d echo those who want some more physicality in central midfield. That would have been my 2nd priority this window. Full back cover would be priority 3.

After those 3 positions it would be wingers/attacking mids.

The window is very early. If we’re bidding £50m for a versatile winger we certainly view it as a priority


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Post #548715  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Exactly this. We can obviously afford £65m, but the question is what impact it would have on our other targets for the summer. Another issue is that Chelsea are reportedly willing to pay most of the £65m up front - with the amount of money we seem willing to spend it this summer we will probably have to be creative with the way we structure those deals in terms of add-ons, paying in installments etc.

Makes you wonder how Chelsea are balancing their priorities, they could go for £65m Raphinha and Sterling (£50m??) and yet their most pressing needs are CB. They’ve lost Rudiger and Christensen and Azpilicueta is a player I think is in sharp decline. Alonso wants out and Chilwell is coming off a very serious injury. They have Havertz and Werner as their two strikers having binned off Lukaku on loan. Their attacking midfield positions might just be the positions least in need of investment to an outsider.

Possibly their approach is to stop us getting much stronger.

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Post #548716  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:12 pm 
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Raphinha on picking Chelsea: I think they [Arsenal] has an exciting wingers in Saka & Martinelli which i don't see myself competing or starting over them, I want to make it to the world cup so i picked them bc i would get much game time playing for the 2nd best club in London.

Really? Is this true?

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Post #548717  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:29 pm 
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3rd bid made for Martinez. Man U are linked and would be a genuine threat given Ten Hag was his last boss, but Man U have just had a bid accepted for a left back. But maybe they can give Martinez more assurances on game time whereas for us he might be 1st choice back up in 2-3 positions


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Post #548718  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:34 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Yeah, the Jesus deal is done, it's just that Arsenal are notoriously slow with official announcements of new signings. Several sources have reported the medical is done, and the deal is 100% signed. Don't think that's one we need to worry about.

Jess was pictured at London Colney getting out of a car and being hugged and greeted by Edu. It’s definitely done.

Wasn’t the picture of him being hugged and greeted by Edu taken when he arrived for his medical? Apart from the football fitness stuff, the medical will also include a full blood count. That will cover everything that can possibly be checked by a blood test. As soon as that’s done, it will inevitably take a while before the results are known which I’ve little doubt will coincide with the social media stuff being prepared which Darren mentioned.

It’s possibly about a one in a million (perhaps more) chance, but if the blood test found he had something like early stage leukaemia, there’s no chance Arsenal would go through with the signing. It is still too early to say it’s definitely done. It will be confirmed on Arsenal.com once the social media stuff has been done AND the outcome of the medical, including the blood test results, are known.

Extremely or massively likely - yes. Definitely done? Not quite.


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Post #548719  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:35 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Raphinha on picking Chelsea: I think they [Arsenal] has an exciting wingers in Saka & Martinelli which i don't see myself competing or starting over them, I want to make it to the world cup so i picked them bc i would get much game time playing for the 2nd best club in London.

Really? Is this true?

:14laughter:

Blatantly made up quote. He’s not even signed yet


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Post #548720  Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:42 pm 
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Uh oh

News breaking that Gabriel Jesus move has fell through because club doctors diagnosed Human papillomavirus infection (HPV). He will now have to go back to city.

This just isn’t our week. Not sure what happens now.


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