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Post #535521  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:29 am 
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The team that finished the game yesterday had an average age just over 23.
AMN was the 3rd oldest player at 24


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Post #535522  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:37 am 
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DHD wrote:
Jimmy Greaves has died.
Some light has most definitely gone from the football world. Loved him as a player and as a commentator. You can safely use the word great about him.

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Post #535523  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:50 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
DHD wrote:
Jimmy Greaves has died.
Some light has most definitely gone from the football world. Loved him as a player and as a commentator. You can safely use the word great about him.


Indeed, quite some player and post-retirement he and the Saint were a fantastic combo.

Sad that he didn't get to play in the World Cup Final.

RIP.


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Post #535524  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:00 am 
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Very encouraged by our solid defensive display yesterday against a very physical Burnley side.


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Post #535525  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:09 am 
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DHD wrote:
Jimmy Greaves has died.

Very sad. I saw him play a few times, and score at least one goal against Arsenal. But in his television work he always came across very well. I still remember the 1987 Coventry vs Tottenham final, still my favourite FA Cup final that Arsenal didn’t win, when he announced that he wanted Coventry to win, even though he expected Tottenham to win A presenter found that astonishing and asked him why? Greaves said it was because he now lived in the midlands.

At the time I had a Tottenham supporting girlfriend. I often went to games at White Hart Lane with her when they weren’t playing us and I wasn’t going to our away game. Likewise she often came with me to Highbury when we weren’t playing Tottenham. As a result, in addition to the about 120+ North London derbies I’ve attended, my guess is I must have been to hundreds (200+) Tottenham games. As a result, I must admit I’ve never really had the same pathological hatred of Tottenham that many Arsenal fans seem to have, even though I’ve wanted them to lose the huge majority of even the non-North London derby matches I went to with her (there were a small number of exceptions).

But anyway, she had Tottenham supporting friends who now in the age of social media would be called ‘in the know’. The strong suspicion amongst her ITK contacts was that Greaves was desperately unhappy with the club over what he perceived as their lack of support for him over his alcoholism. Indeed, following his retirement (must have been quite a number of years) he gave an interview when he was asked what the biggest regrets he had over his career. It wasn’t his biggest regret, but one I do recall him giving was never having played for Arsenal.

He obviously played for Chelsea, Tottenham and West Ham so most put it down to us being the only one of the top four London clubs he never played for. But my former girlfriend’s ITK contacts always thought it was all to do with him still having the hump with Tottenham over what he perceived as their lack of support for him over his alcoholism.


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Post #535526  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
Just seen the Walker penalty and red card that was over turned v Southampton. Does anyone actually think an Arsenal defender would have got that over turned? No chance Luiz from last season gets that over turned

These days yes I do think the penalty would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal defender. Don’t forget, what’s considered acceptable or not has now been modified. I think the penalty should still have been given whoever was playing. But I don’t think an Arsenal defender would be sent off this season for that foul.

We must remember things have changed recently. I think Burnley’s penalty would have been given previously. Yesterday it wasn’t.


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Post #535527  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:00 am 
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socrates wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Some light has most definitely gone from the football world. Loved him as a player and as a commentator. You can safely use the word great about him.


Indeed, quite some player and post-retirement he and the Saint were a fantastic combo.

Sad that he didn't get to play in the World Cup Final.

RIP.


That name was among the first names banded about when I became a fan. The pub I went to were filled with a lot of pensioners who retired to LA (of all places) and a good number of them were Londoners. The others married American women or for whatever reason moved their with their children. The name was mentioned off and on, on this forum as well over the years. Both venues I've heard it, always with respect.

Greaves was mentioned a lot and I wish I had seen him play. I've only seen him in videos.

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Post #535528  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:04 am 
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Watching fever pitch the premier league years on bbc2. After last weeks sick inducing homage to man uniteds title side the beeb have done another special.

10 minutes dedicated to Blackburn then a 40 minute homage to the flawed genius that was Eric Cantona covering the famous selhurst lark incident even though they didn’t win the title that year. They can’t help themselves


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Post #535529  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:33 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
:laughing7:

The whole thing will be some massive conspiracy that they will indulge on match of the day

Gary Lineker already tweeted at the time that even though he won the ball he ‘followed through’ and so there was a debate whether this was a clear and obvious error.
People quite rightly pointing out to him that following through only becomes an issue if the tackle is dangerous ie you can’t two foot someone and use the excuse that you got the ball before the man.

There are plenty of tackles where the ball is won and there is contact between the players that leaves the attacker with on a heap on the floor. It is clearly not a foul.

Of course it will get painted as a big team getting a decision when in reality it was Arsenal being shafted by an awful decision that was thankfully just put correct so the situation became neutral again.

That was as good a case of a 'clear and obvious error' as you will ever see. The ref couldn't see it from his angle and var did the right thing. Exactly how the system is supposed to work.

In fact, there is no way anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of football could honestly say otherwise. So it is a real pity is that pundits feel they have a licence to talk nonsense, presumably because 'being controversial' is seen as interesting and is good for ratings. A bit of fun is one thing, but I do think the balance between 'informing' and 'inflaming' in journalism needs to be addressed.

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Post #535530  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:36 am 
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Rich wrote:
Just seen the Walker penalty and red card that was over turned v Southampton. Does anyone actually think an Arsenal defender would have got that over turned? No chance Luiz from last season gets that over turned


*yawn*

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Post #535531  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:54 am 
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If we are to rely on Smith Rowe he has to develop more of a killer instinct. He has missed opportunities yesterday and againest Norwich that would have finished those matches. Decent player and a good prospect but can’t help feeling it might be a little too much responsibility too soon rather than being phased in


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Post #535532  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:58 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Just seen the Walker penalty and red card that was over turned v Southampton. Does anyone actually think an Arsenal defender would have got that over turned? No chance Luiz from last season gets that over turned

These days yes I do think the penalty would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal defender. Don’t forget, what’s considered acceptable or not has now been modified. I think the penalty should still have been given whoever was playing. But I don’t think an Arsenal defender would be sent off this season for that foul.

We must remember things have changed recently. I think Burnley’s penalty would have been given previously. Yesterday it wasn’t.

Sorry, I meant the sending off would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal player, not the penalty as I put in the first sentence. The penalty shouldn’t have been. The sending off should.


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Post #535533  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:06 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Bernard wrote:
These days yes I do think the penalty would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal defender. Don’t forget, what’s considered acceptable or not has now been modified. I think the penalty should still have been given whoever was playing. But I don’t think an Arsenal defender would be sent off this season for that foul.

We must remember things have changed recently. I think Burnley’s penalty would have been given previously. Yesterday it wasn’t.

Sorry, I meant the sending off would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal player, not the penalty as I put in the first sentence. The penalty shouldn’t have been. The sending off should.

I'm glad you clarified that. It looked like a foul, or at least a borderline case.

Does the VAR check allow the ref to differentiate? i.e. overrule the sending off but still award the penalty?

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Post #535534  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:08 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
DHD wrote:
Jimmy Greaves has died.
Some light has most definitely gone from the football world. Loved him as a player and as a commentator. You can safely use the word great about him.

Indeed Old Man.

I had a Spurs-supporting neighbour and I’d often go with him to watch them on the Saturdays we weren’t at home, so I saw a lot of Greaves. Spurs we’re a better team than us in those days and much better to watch. Greaves was their star and in my mind, as good a striker as I’ve ever seen. He didn’t track back or tackle or create assists; he was an out-and-out goal-scorer. He could ride vicious tackles and weave through packed defences and when he was through on goal, there was nobody quite like him for coolness and accuracy of shot.

As important as all that for me, he was his own man. He didn’t compromise and he stuck with his decisions. He fought a long struggle against alcohol and never joined in the frequent World Cup get-togethers because they were awash with booze. That made him seem resentful of not playing in the Final but he just didn’t need the temptation. He was a great pundit who brought wit and wisdom to his programmes which made him compulsive viewing. He almost died of a stroke a few years ago so we haven’t seen much of him, but he will be missed.

Probably my favourite non-Arse player.


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Post #535535  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Sorry, I meant the sending off would have been overturned had it been an Arsenal player, not the penalty as I put in the first sentence. The penalty shouldn’t have been. The sending off should.

I'm glad you clarified that. It looked like a foul, or at least a borderline case.

Does the VAR check allow the ref to differentiate? i.e. overrule the sending off but still award the penalty?

I would have thought so. If it doesn’t, it should do.


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Post #535536  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:27 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Probably my favourite non-Arse player.

Paul Breitner for me.

My favourite ex-Tottenham player is Darren Bent. As a kid he was an Arsenal season ticket holder and working as a presenter on TalkSPORT makes his pro-Arsenal bias blatantly obvious. Often refers to Arsenal with words like ‘us’ and ‘we’.


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Post #535537  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Like this photo. Burnley player trying to rush Tierney up, or remonstrate with him from going down with cramp, assuming he was just time wasting and Ramsdale straight in there to stop him and Gabriel looking ready for a fight as well.

Little things but this is the attitude we need.


:53big-emoticons:

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Post #535538  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:23 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
DHD wrote:
Jimmy Greaves has died.
Some light has most definitely gone from the football world. Loved him as a player and as a commentator. You can safely use the word great about him.

Great player. Fantastic finisher. I think he was the best natural finisher I’ve ever seen. He made it look so easy.
I actually played against him much later in his career. I was playing for Eton Manor against Barnet. Shattered some illusions. He was really miserable… didn’t stop moaning. He was still the second best player on the pitch though!!


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Post #535539  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:35 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
...Greaves was mentioned a lot and I wish I had seen him play. I've only seen him in videos.
Hi AG - you had to be a careful watcher with Jimmy because he was one of those players who could be out of the action for a good while but then, bang! - goal!! He wasn't a fancy player, a dribbler or all over the place, just a deadly finisher. This goal against United is rightly famous, but in not typical.
https://www.facebook.com/TottenhamHotsp ... 1550153505

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Post #535540  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:37 pm 
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Arsenal U23's beat Chelsea 6-1 today, despite having a man sent off after 35 minutes.

New signing Biereth (signed from Fulham) got a hat trick, Balogun scored 2 and there was an own goal.


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Post #535541  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:44 pm 
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It was only recently Ronaldo beat greaves record as the greatest all top scorer in Europe's top 5 leagues. Never saw him play but I remember sitting in Prague surrounded by gooners or a certain vintage about 20 plus years ago. They all agreed Greaves was the best striker England ever produced.

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Post #535542  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I'm glad you clarified that. It looked like a foul, or at least a borderline case.

Does the VAR check allow the ref to differentiate? i.e. overrule the sending off but still award the penalty?

I would have thought so. If it doesn’t, it should do.

I thought it was a foul but not a red. I think it needs to be a very clear 'no attempt to play the ball' for it to be a red.


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Post #535543  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I would have thought so. If it doesn’t, it should do.

I thought it was a foul but not a red. I think it needs to be a very clear 'no attempt to play the ball' for it to be a red.

The VAR should be looking at the red card, not the incident as a whole. Otherwise the ref is going 'ok I made a mistake' and both the penalty (wrongly) and red card (rightly) are overturned.

The ref really should not have the opportunity to overturn the penalty in that case. That is setting the bar for overturning penalty calls far too low.

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Post #535544  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:52 pm 
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How is that not a penalty for Ronaldo?

Man U have probably won it with a late Lingard goal, but Ronaldo broke clear, took Zouma on down the outside, Zouma slides in, nowhere near the ball and clearly fouls Ronaldo. Var check over in a matter of seconds.


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Post #535545  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:53 pm 
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Wow, now west ham get given a penalty on a VAR review for handball by Shaw


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Post #535546  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:55 pm 
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Amazingly West Ham bring Mark Noble off the bench to take the penalty with his first touch of the ball.....it is an awful penalty and De Gea saves.

terrible decision by Moyes to bring a cold player on like that in the 94th minute to save a point.


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Post #535547  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:08 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
...Greaves was mentioned a lot and I wish I had seen him play. I've only seen him in videos.
Hi AG - you had to be a careful watcher with Jimmy because he was one of those players who could be out of the action for a good while but then, bang! - goal!! He wasn't a fancy player, a dribbler or all over the place, just a deadly finisher. This goal against United is rightly famous, but in not typical.
https://www.facebook.com/TottenhamHotsp ... 1550153505


Hey omoh,

Thanks. I remember watching this video specifically because it had good highlights and secondly, I actually liked the music. :icon_mrgreen1:


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Post #535548  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Amazingly West Ham bring Mark Noble off the bench to take the penalty with his first touch of the ball.....it is an awful penalty and De Gea saves.

terrible decision by Moyes to bring a cold player on like that in the 94th minute to save a point.

Apparently Noble had scored 38 penalties out of 39 for West Ham before today, so now it’s 38 out of 40. Shouldn’t a player be able to take a penalty cold? Myself, I would have thought so. Why should playing a lengthy part of the game make any difference?

Noble is a brilliant penalty taker and his record surely shows that. Hence I can understand why Moyes did it. Even though it didn’t work out, I still wouldn’t call it a terrible decision by Moyes.


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Post #535549  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:53 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Amazingly West Ham bring Mark Noble off the bench to take the penalty with his first touch of the ball.....it is an awful penalty and De Gea saves.

terrible decision by Moyes to bring a cold player on like that in the 94th minute to save a point.

Apparently Noble had scored 38 penalties out of 39 for West Ham before today, so now it’s 38 out of 40. Shouldn’t a player be able to take a penalty cold? I would have thought so. I can understand why Moyes did it, even though it didn’t work today. Noble’s a brilliant penalty taker and his record surely shows that.

I understand he’s the best penalty taker at the club but it’s almost a no win situation to bring him on.
If a player on the pitch takes it and misses I doubt anyone says Moyes should have bought on Noble. I doubt Noble has ever had to take a penalty in those circumstances before.


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Post #535550  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:03 pm 
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Watching the Lingard goal I never understand how defenders let players seemingly take that sort of shot so easily. As Lingard gets it every single person watching knows exactly what he wants to do but the defender stands off enough to just let him dribble it and shift it on to his right. I’d much rather a defender almost over commit and potentially get beaten with Lingard cutting back on his left foot. I know which I’d rather he took a shot on


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Post #535551  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I understand he’s the best penalty taker at the club but it’s almost a no win situation to bring him on.
If a player on the pitch takes it and misses I doubt anyone says Moyes should have bought on Noble. I doubt Noble has ever had to take a penalty in those circumstances before.

I bet they would have said he should have brought Noble on. I just don’t see why someone has to have played a material part of the game to take a penalty. It’s one kick. Use your best penalty taker.


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Post #535552  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:17 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
I understand he’s the best penalty taker at the club but it’s almost a no win situation to bring him on.
If a player on the pitch takes it and misses I doubt anyone says Moyes should have bought on Noble. I doubt Noble has ever had to take a penalty in those circumstances before.

I bet they would have said he should have brought Noble on. I just don’t see why someone has to have played a material part of the game to take a penalty. It’s one kick. Use your best penalty taker.

I agree with Rich on this one Bernard. With hindsight obviously. Noble hadn't even been warming up to come on, surely one of the players already on the pitch would have been a better idea.


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Post #535553  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:50 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
I agree with Rich on this one Bernard. With hindsight obviously. Noble hadn't even been warming up to come on, surely one of the players already on the pitch would have been a better idea.

Fair enough but I just don’t see why someone has to have been running around to take a single kick. If he’s West Ham’s best penalty taker by a country mile, I can understand why Moyes asked him if he was happy to go on and take it. It’s more to do with nerve than having run about, I’d have thought.

Okay, Noble missed. But I still think it was a perfectly understandable decision by Moyes so I think it’s unfair to call it a terrible decision.


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Post #535554  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:57 pm 
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If you get a penalty in the first 3 minutes your bound to miss then right as the taker has barely been involved.

Or it’s just another nonsense story narrative bollocks


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Post #535555  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:18 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
If you get a penalty in the first 3 minutes your bound to miss then right as the taker has barely been involved.

Or it’s just another nonsense story narrative bollocks

It's a talking point TG. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Relax.


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Post #535556  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:30 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
If you get a penalty in the first 3 minutes your bound to miss then right as the taker has barely been involved.

Or it’s just another nonsense story narrative bollocks

It's a talking point TG. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Relax.

Exactly, just a talking point. Happy for people to disagree with my opinion - which of course has the benefit of hindsight.

It is similar in a way to the old adage of not making a substitution when you’re defending a corner. The player coming on is not quite ‘on it’ physically, mentally, emotionally.


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Post #535557  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:32 pm 
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So spurs get beaten 3-0 at home to Chelsea. A 2 goal victory against them next week will take us above them I think. How things can change so quickly.

It’s also one of the reasons I like to look at the underlying stats in games. Spurs were very very lucky to win their first 3 games 1-0. Very much outplayed by City and Wolves at least. These things catch up with teams, you can’t continually play poorly and rely on scoring your limited chances and your opponent missing all the time


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Post #535558  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:58 pm 
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Rich wrote:
So spurs get beaten 3-0 at home to Chelsea. A 2 goal victory against them next week will take us above them I think. How things can change so quickly.

It’s also one of the reasons I like to look at the underlying stats in games. Spurs were very very lucky to win their first 3 games 1-0. Very much outplayed by City and Wolves at least. These things catch up with teams, you can’t continually play poorly and rely on scoring your limited chances and your opponent missing all the time

Shame. They started the game so well. It's tragic that things always seem to go pear-shaped for them after promising starts. Imagine the poor fans.

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Post #535559  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:08 pm 
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Apparently the five Arsenal players who scored the most penalties for us are:

1) Thierry Henry with 22 scored
2) Ian Wright with 18 scored
3) Alan Ball with 15 scored
4) Liam Brady with 14 scored
5) Lee Dixon with 11 scored

The full historical list, assuming it’s correct, is in the link.

https://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_g ... enal-fc/1/


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Post #535560  Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:14 pm 
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Chelsea look superb and Tuchel is an excellent coach. I can't see them losing many, if any, games this season. Got me thinking. The top four look more concrete than ever before. Before there were always two definites and any two from three for the remaining spot. Now, Chelsea, City, Utd and Liverpool look way ahead of the rest. Could be a very long time before we see CL football back at the Emirates. our only chance is a sharp upturn in our consistency and one of the those sides to have an awful season. I think we're looking at EL football for years to come.

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