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Post #527961  Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:50 pm 
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Remember this. Gazidis was part of it aka Kroenke rep.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-su ... eting/amp/

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Post #527962  Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:28 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Remember this. Gazidis was part of it aka Kroenke rep.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-su ... eting/amp/


Yes, see my post from yesterday. #527928

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Post #527963  Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:07 pm 
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One good thing....it brought Harlow out of exile....now where's Daz and Chocolate Gooner


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Post #527964  Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:56 pm 
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dec wrote:
Apparently, Sky broadcast the build-up to last night's match as free to air, which naturally was all about their opposition to the Super League. The paywall kicked in for the start of the game. Says it all, really.

Let’s be honest a lot of those pundits who were opposed, were only self-interested as they could see Hugh wage reductions if suddenly the top 6 were out of the league and they were talking about Burnley v Brighton as if anyone gave a f..k, I am not sure their wages would match their egos.

The self interest from UEFA, FIFA and the EPL was hypocritical at the best. I don’t think this is finished yet. There will be other models put up in the future.

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Post #527965  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:40 am 
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Apparently the apology from Arsenal was from the Board. I think SK should have apologised. On the Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts

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Post #527966  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:11 am 
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Andy Green wrote:
One good thing....it brought Harlow out of exile.

Good to hear from Steve. Hope he is in good health.

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Post #527967  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:05 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Apparently the apology from Arsenal was from the Board. I think SK should have apologised. On the Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts


Then it will become quite obvious what he is, and surely the crowd will up the ante against him?

#KroenkeOut

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Post #527968  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:32 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Apparently the apology from Arsenal was from the Board. I think SK should have apologised. On the Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts

To be honest it wouldn’t shock me either. Didn’t I say as much not all that long ago and I thought the idea was dismissed by a couple of members who were, in my view, quite possibly being over optimistic?

I’ve given evidence (the Forbes rich list) that shows the owner of Arsenal has personal wealth in excess of some clubs who have been perceived as financially doped. I realise some members wouldn’t be comfortable if Kroenke spent enough of his own money to make us financially doped. To be brutally honest that’s not a viewpoint I share but I respect the opinions of those who look at things that way. Sorry but for me it’s little more than a ‘look at how moral I am’ attitude that isn’t for me.

But going back to your post Gaz from Oz, if what you suggest is was ends up happening, I’m not going to be surprised. I think it’s perfectly realistic. Indeed, more than that I feel it’s likely. Sure, I might be wrong and I sincerely hope I am.

However, Arsenal have to pay back a £120m Bank of England loan next month and with that presumably unavoidable monetary commitment on the horizon, my guess is a net zero spend (transfer fees spent on new players equalling the transfer fees received from selling players) is the best we can possibly hope for. I actually suggest a negative net spend (transfer fees spent on new players being less than the transfer fees received from selling players) is more likely than a positive net spend (the transfer fees spent on new players exceeding the transfer fees received from selling players).

Am I wrong in thinking the only clubs that have taken Bank of England loans recently are Tottenham and Arsenal? Because if that is the case, why is it when no league team outside North London have done so?


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Post #527969  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:58 am 
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A Daily Mail report on Stan Kroenke.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... e-masthead


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Post #527970  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:20 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Apparently the apology from Arsenal was from the Board. I think SK should have apologised. On the Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts

To be honest it wouldn’t shock me either. Didn’t I say as much not all that long ago and I thought the idea was dismissed by a couple of members who were, in my view, quite possibly being over optimistic?

I’ve given evidence (the Forbes rich list) that shows the owner of Arsenal has personal wealth in excess of some clubs who have been perceived as financially doped. I realise some members wouldn’t be comfortable if Kroenke spent enough of his own money to make us financially doped. To be brutally honest that’s not a viewpoint I share but I respect the opinions of those who look at things that way. Sorry but for me it’s little more than a ‘look at how moral I am’ attitude that isn’t for me.

But going back to your post Gaz from Oz, if what you suggest is was ends up happening, I’m not going to be surprised. I think it’s perfectly realistic. Indeed, more than that I feel it’s likely. Sure, I might be wrong and I sincerely hope I am.

However, Arsenal have to pay back a £120m Bank of England loan next month and with that presumably unavoidable monetary commitment on the horizon, my guess is a net zero spend (transfer fees spent on new players equalling the transfer fees received from selling players) is the best we can possibly hope for. I actually suggest a negative net spend (transfer fees spent on new players being less than the transfer fees received from selling players) is more likely than a positive net spend (the transfer fees spent on new players exceeding the transfer fees received from selling players).

Am I wrong in thinking the only clubs that have taken Bank of England loans recently are Tottenham and Arsenal? Because if that is the case, why is it when no league team outside North London have done so?

Yes, I do recall your earlier view. I think net zero spend is all we can hope for. I know people are suggesting we need to spend 300mil but I just don't see much money being available in any league this transfer round unless the owners stump up the money. I am unaware of which clubs took loans but I don't think the taxpayers of the UK would find any favor in Arsenal asking for an extension after the SL fiasco.

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Post #527971  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:24 am 
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Bernard wrote:
A Daily Mail report on Stan Kroenke.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... e-masthead


Hi Bern,

The question is, how do you get him to sell?

It seems the only way is for someone to make him an offer he simply cannot refuse. How likely is that given the already small amount of buyers with deep enough pockets to buy the club even at its current valuation.

A potential buyer might have to offer him something like twice the current valuation, say like £4 billion, and that's before you even start spending money on transfers. Realistically, who is going to do that.

Frankly, you could buy Leeds United or Villa, with their history and massive fan bases, and turn them into a european heavyweight on a fraction of that money.


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Post #527972  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:53 am 
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socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
A Daily Mail report on Stan Kroenke.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... e-masthead


Hi Bern,

The question is, how do you get him to sell?

It seems the only way is for someone to make him an offer he simply cannot refuse. How likely is that given the already small amount of buyers with deep enough pockets to buy the club even at its current valuation.

A potential buyer might have to offer him something like twice the current valuation, say like £4 billion, and that's before you even start spending money on transfers. Realistically, who is going to do that.

Frankly, you could buy Leeds United or Villa, with their history and massive fan bases, and turn them into a european heavyweight on a fraction of that money.

You’re probably right socrates. I know some were snooty about Usmanov saying they wouldn’t want him anywhere near the club. I’ve said myself that we don’t know how good or bad an owner he would have been. But we do know how bad an owner Kroenke is and that alone makes me regret the fact that he is now the owner rather than Usmanov, and presumably Stan will remain the owner for the foreseeable future. Given a choice between Kroenke and Usmanov, my own choice would definitely be Usmanov. My own preference is irrelevant. But that doesn’t change it.


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Post #527973  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:12 am 
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Bernard wrote:
A Daily Mail report on Stan Kroenke.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... e-masthead

Unsurprising and depressing in equal measure.

Although the £3m consultancy fee was a revelation. I hold no real hope for our future.

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Post #527974  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 am 
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As much as I am against the current concept of the European Super League, listening to some of the nonsense spoken about it makes me cringe.

Someone on Sky Sports News just used words like 'mayhem' (hardly), 'abhorrent' (no, racism is abhorrent, the better word for this is unacceptable).

The hypocrisy.

Oh, and it's an indictment of current society that not as much fuss is made of poverty, inequality, racism, tax dodging, lying politicians etc. We live in a world where our priorities are utterly screwed.

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Post #527975  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:38 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
On an Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts
You are right to be concerned. We may not want to, but for a moment look at it from the owner's perspective. He and others had a plan to hugely increase the club's revenue, wipe out existing debt, and dare we say it, provide a weekly fixture list against most of the best teams in the world. Adopting the American model of spending caps offered the chance to finally get on a level ground with the other ESL members. The intention was to also remain in the Premier League. As far as these things can be financially risk-free, this was going to be it for his club. Right now he is back to square one - servicing debt and facing richer competitors who can virtually pay what they want for the best players. If I was him, I might hang on to my money until the ESL plan is revisited.

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Post #527976  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:43 am 
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Andy Green wrote:
One good thing....it brought Harlow out of exile....now where's Daz and Chocolate Gooner
You won't hear from Daz - he is still too embarrassed to show his mush after we beat United in the Cup Final all those years ago...

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Post #527977  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:09 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
On an Arsenal Vision podcast they raised an issue that gave me some concern. This is my summary:What if Kroenke just says, bugger Arsenal I am uninterested and there won’t be any money for transfers this summer. As long as we don’t get relegated they are not of concern. I would not doubt it could be in his thoughts
You are right to be concerned. We may not want to, but for a moment look at it from the owner's perspective. He and others had a plan to hugely increase the club's revenue, wipe out existing debt, and dare we say it, provide a weekly fixture list against most of the best teams in the world. Adopting the American model of spending caps offered the chance to finally get on a level ground with the other ESL members. The intention was to also remain in the Premier League. As far as these things can be financially risk-free, this was going to be it for his club. Right now he is back to square one - servicing debt and facing richer competitors who can virtually pay what they want for the best players. If I was him, I might hang on to my money until the ESL plan is revisited.

That was a thorough examination of his position which from his perspective makes sense. This is a commercial venture for him, rather than a love affair. If he invests I just won’t be surprised, I will be in shock. As for people saying we need to invest 300 million in the team. You are dreaming if you think he or any other owner will do it.

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Post #527978  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:26 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
This is a commercial venture for him, rather than a love affair. If he invests I just won’t be surprised, I will be in shock. As for people saying we need to invest 300 million in the team. You are dreaming if you think he or any other owner will do it.
Yes, and the paradox in the backlash against the ESL from the fans of the Six, is that by rejecting it they have denied themselves what many have asked for in the past - regular viewing times; higher quality fixtures; a more level playing field with respect to player recruitment and financial stability off the field. If we are in the Europa League next year, playing largely middle of the road opponents, we might be thinking how preferable it would be to play Real, Barca, The Old Lady etc?

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Post #527979  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:46 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
If we are in the Europa League next year, playing largely middle of the road opponents, we might be thinking how preferable it would be to play Real, Barca, The Old Lady etc?

Does your spell checker automatically change Juventus to The Old Lady?


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Post #527980  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:09 am 
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john1 wrote:
As much as I am against the current concept of the European Super League, listening to some of the nonsense spoken about it makes me cringe.

Someone on Sky Sports News just used words like 'mayhem' (hardly), 'abhorrent' (no, racism is abhorrent, the better word for this is unacceptable).

The hypocrisy.

Oh, and it's an indictment of current society that not as much fuss is made of poverty, inequality, racism, tax dodging, lying politicians etc. We live in a world where our priorities are utterly screwed.


This is what I couldn’t believe too,

The sheer hypocrisy. Boris Johnson was right it was a cartel but heres a guy who paid his mistress 100k of tax payers money.

Murdoch corp lecturing people on morality ? I mean please !

Gary Neville who despite being right on this issue pumped a ton of money into Salford with his rich mates so they climbed up the table.

Then just the sheer craziness that this is top tier news when our export business to Europe has been destroyed but the media can’t comment on it, covid and all the other *%^@.

How can this command such attention at the end of day.


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Post #527981  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:19 am 
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Why on God's green earth would Kroenke sell? Financially its crazy. He can't get the same revenue for his money elsewhere. Why would he even sell it at a premium? And the amount of money above value it would take, there is no one that would pay it and why should they? There is a lot of wishful thinking that doesn't fit reality and business.

And I always get a wry smile when I read anything that makes it seems like there is a difference the Arsenal board and Kroenke. L'état, c'est moi. Kroenke is the board. Just as if there is the difference between The Tesla board and Musk. Or the Amazon board and Bezos.

Kroenke (and others) went for it. Failed...this time. Will lick their wounds and try again some other time. That's everything in a nutshell. If they

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Post #527982  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:24 am 
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The one thing that American owners have that football leagues could take a page from is they have far, far more power in rejecting someone who wants to buy a team. The reverse of us being bought by Kroenke would have been much more difficult if someone else were trying to buy an NFL side.

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Post #527983  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:33 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
This is a commercial venture for him, rather than a love affair. If he invests I just won’t be surprised, I will be in shock. As for people saying we need to invest 300 million in the team. You are dreaming if you think he or any other owner will do it.
Yes, and the paradox in the backlash against the ESL from the fans of the Six, is that by rejecting it they have denied themselves what many have asked for in the past - regular viewing times; higher quality fixtures; a more level playing field with respect to player recruitment and financial stability off the field. If we are in the Europa League next year, playing largely middle of the road opponents, we might be thinking how preferable it would be to play Real, Barca, The Old Lady etc?

Big if, old man, big if. We could be banned from Europe next season (and beyond) if UEFA get their way.


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Post #527984  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:14 pm 
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New article on what I said last week here. Kroenke has made about a billion on Arsenal why on Earth would he sell.

https://angryofislington.com/2019/03/31 ... -sell-for/


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Post #527985  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:17 pm 
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You want Kroenke to sell? Be careful what you wish for. I want Kroenke out maybe more than most. However, my (educated) guess is if or when he sells it will be to another American. The NFL and NBA is a very small club. Kroenke is part of both. You have to believe that he, Glazer and Henry have been asked and have spoken at length about owning a football team in Europe/UK.

The 'logical' next step in ownership is football, England primarily, Europe secondarily. I'd be very surprised if or when Kroenke sells he'll take any non American offer seriously. The sale will already be discussed privately, weeks of privately working out the details, a hint or two floated in the press and then an announcement. And the new owner(s) will be much richer than he is and if we are lucky...IF...he will want to win things to placate the fans. It depends on who he sells to of course.

A guy like Mark Cuban will try to win things but he doesn't have the money. Most of them will look at it for the business opportunity.

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Post #527986  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:13 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Zed wrote:
Remember this. Gazidis was part of it aka Kroenke rep.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-su ... eting/amp/


Yes, see my post from yesterday. #527928

Thanks yes. Saw it afterwards.

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Post #527987  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:23 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
You want Kroenke to sell? Be careful what you wish for. I want Kroenke out maybe more than most. However, my (educated) guess is if or when he sells it will be to another American. The NFL and NBA is a very small club. Kroenke is part of both. You have to believe that he, Glazer and Henry have been asked and have spoken at length about owning a football team in Europe/UK.

The 'logical' next step in ownership is football, England primarily, Europe secondarily. I'd be very surprised if or when Kroenke sells he'll take any non American offer seriously. The sale will already be discussed privately, weeks of privately working out the details, a hint or two floated in the press and then an announcement. And the new owner(s) will be much richer than he is and if we are lucky...IF...he will want to win things to placate the fans. It depends on who he sells to of course.

A guy like Mark Cuban will try to win things but he doesn't have the money. Most of them will look at it for the business opportunity.

Obviously that would most likely be his back up plan. Handing the reins over to "foreign" investors just isn't part of that 'Big Picture" project for a renewed ESL plot. No, push comes to shove this will not go away.

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Post #527988  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:45 pm 
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The noises coming out of the fans forum today are interesting. Little josh was told he doesn’t know what he’s doing and he said KSE have no intention of selling arsenal

I think it’s time for full blown protest mode. Burn an effigy and all that stuff, boycott the club shop etc


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Post #527989  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:06 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The noises coming out of the fans forum today are interesting. Little josh was told he doesn’t know what he’s doing and he said KSE have no intention of selling arsenal

I think it’s time for full blown protest mode. Burn an effigy and all that stuff, boycott the club shop etc

What’s the point? He’s not going away and he’s certainly not going to listen to the little people. His absentee landlord role will continue without a concern.

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Post #527990  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:17 pm 
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It’s been reported that Josh Kroenke has said that global Arsenal fans want to see Arsenal vs Barcelona as much as possible whereas the English fans want to see Arsenal vs Stoke. I assume this is his justification for aspiring to join the Super non-competitive League. So the direction of Arsenal is going to be dictated by the whims of a foreign fan base? So what happens when these fans want kick off times in the middle of the night UK time as it’s more convenient for them? Or what if they want to change the rules because they want to see more goals scored? KSE Custodians of Arsenal?
I think I’m going to go to the protest tomorrow.


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Post #527991  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:20 pm 
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The protest may not change anything but it will make feel better .


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Post #527992  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:20 pm 
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Bored wrote:
It’s been reported that Josh Kroenke has said that global Arsenal fans want to see Arsenal vs Barcelona as much as possible whereas the English fans want to see Arsenal vs Stoke. So the direction of Arsenal is going to be dictated by the whims of a foreign fan base? .


That tells you all you need to know about their motivations.

Also it throws a ton of fuel on what Irvine Welsh said which was the ultimate goal is to remove the geographical dependency of the founder clubs to maximise overseas revenue.


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Post #527993  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:23 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
The noises coming out of the fans forum today are interesting. Little josh was told he doesn’t know what he’s doing and he said KSE have no intention of selling arsenal

I think it’s time for full blown protest mode. Burn an effigy and all that stuff, boycott the club shop etc

What’s the point? .


It’ll be funny.


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Post #527994  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:30 pm 
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I appear to have misquoted Josh Kroenke but the point remains, under KSE’s guidance the direction of the club is to be largely dictated and influenced by the lucrative foreign fan. And for the record I have nothing against overseas fans. I do have something against football club owners who care not about the history and traditions of clubs.


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Post #527995  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:18 pm 
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I'm happy to read about a protest. I think its a good thing. It's been needed for some time. That said, it won't do much. Kroenke will consider it a temporary thing. If we progress in the Europa Cup, win it, fans will put this super league thing to the side. Furthermore, the Arsenal fanbase are too disparate. We're not a small club. There is a long waiting list for season tickets. When the pandemic is over, fans will be back in droves after missing live football for so long. Foreigners with an affinity for Arsenal such as myself will visit.

There is not enough anger and commitment for an effective boycott that results in Kroenke going for it to work. If I know this I have to assume the club does as well. I don't see a happy ending. I hope beyond all hope there is but if someone else sees something different that is logical, I'm all ears.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-fc-fan-protests-stan-kroenke-everton-european-super-league-b930907.html

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Post #527996  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:24 pm 
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Much ado...
https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/22/arsenal-defender-william-saliba-given-one-month-ban-over-x-rated-video-14457459/?ito=newsnow-feed

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Post #527997  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:39 pm 
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Protesting may not cause a change of ownership but perhaps it galvanises a section of the fan base. Perhaps it makes life a teeny weeny bit uncomfortable for those connected to KSE. Perhaps it reminds the government this is an ongoing issue. Maybe there will be some funny songs?


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Post #527998  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 pm 
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This ESL or can be called the Billionaire Boys Club. There's a movie with that title. Time will tell if the ESL reinvents itself proves not to be a scam with deadly consequences.

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Post #527999  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:57 pm 
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Interesting, at least to me, an 'American' perspective on the Super League. A little background on this show and this guy. He is part of a 2 person show political show, The Hill, that has a hardcore following for those who want political chatter without the partisanship, calling balls and strikes, he (doing the interview, Saagar) a Republican, she (not present, Krystal) a Democrat but the difference is they call out their own parties. He is not a Trumper and she's a pure progressive, not a fan of the Democrat establishment, Biden included but they both try to be honest to the truth as they understand it. The one thing that is very American is about the 2:45 minute when the guest says "...we look at anything regarding European soccer with a look of bemusement"...."I really don't get it but glad you're having fun".
On a side note, I'd recommend them if you want a pretty unbiased view of American politics.


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Post #528000  Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:31 pm 
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Bored wrote:
I appear to have misquoted Josh Kroenke but the point remains, under KSE’s guidance the direction of the club is to be largely dictated and influenced by the lucrative foreign fan. And for the record I have nothing against overseas fans. I do have something against football club owners who care not about the history and traditions of clubs.

I think only need to look forward in a SL to cause you even more concern than kick off times to suit overseas customers. A number of years of stabilisation and then I could see a stage where the whole circus packed up and had a number of games across Asia or America during one of their seasons. Bit like LTG’s Harlem Globe Trotters.

There is no need to align with European season and you could start the season in Asia and America in June and have uninterrupted opportunities for 2 months.

Make no mistake people will be working on a different model right now. This is not done and dusted. They can afford to play the long game.

Happily I am prepared to work with them for a 3 mil initial consultancy fee.

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