If they progress in the Champions League, and there’s no reason to think they won’t, and they get the Premier League win confirmed very early, might Klopp start resting players in the domestic league? That could weaken the side and stop them remaining undefeated.

Having said that, I’m probably being over optimistic. Even though they still have sixteen games left, I do now expect them to finish the Premier League season undefeated, and to drop quite a number of points less than we did (24 from drawing twelve games).

Maybe they have but Liverpool seems to rarely make a bad big signing. Signings may leave but not before they have made a huge impact (Suarez, Coutinho) and not because they are flops. Man Utd has had a lot of flops. Chelsea a few as well. Liverpool seems to research very well who their target is and they seem to slot right in.

I don't think they'll do it (go unbeaten).

I still sometimes have trouble believing we did it.

It's an almost mythical thing to do.

I'm sure everyone knows that before us only Preston did it, in the League's first season. As an aside they were proven to have paid their players so I don't think that one should count. Anyway, when we did it I got my book of league tables out and looked through all the divisions because I wondered if it had happened in the lower leagues. In the whole history of all the divisions I only found one other unbeaten league season and that was from the 1890s (from memory) in Division II, and it was ironically Liverpool. Three times total.

Banana Split man won't make it four.

(opinions subject to change as the season wears on)

I thought the the villa went unbeaten as well in around about eighteen/canteen

Thinking about it that was the double villa won along with PNE.

(edit - Rog, what sort of link to I use to get utube up here? I'm obviously being a bit stupid here but I can't get it right)

You just put the last bit in of the URL in between the YouTube tags

CB and RB will do, preferably made of something other than breadsticks.

It is an amazing record. At the same time when every other match-up in the league is a lottery which I think is a symptom of the organisation and strength of the rest of the league.

I still think they'll come unstuck before the season is over though. Like Exiled said, just one banana skin and they can lose.

I wouldn't discount the impact of technology as well with all the clubs now having access to video footage and mountains of data and analysis. If utilised properly, this gives them statistical analysis of strengths, weaknesses, speeds, team stamina, times in match where teams are scored against (I.e. losing focus), tactical gaps, etc that improves their odds of results.

I think the main reason is lack of ownership from the traditional top 6 clubs.

Arsenal and United have been set back by the consequences of American ownership and inability to innovate and stagnating.

Chelsea similar with Abramovich not really bothered about them anymore and probably wanting to sell.

I really hope you (and grantyboy) are right. I don’t know; it (them going undefeated) has a certain sense of inevitability to me. If any team is capable of not being affected by it being an almost mythical (to use your term) thing to do, I think it’s this Liverpool team under Klopp. Indeed, rather than it making the unbeaten season less likely, if anything I can see Klopp successfully using it as a motivation to drive his players to do it.

Maybe I’m wrong (on Liverpool remaining undefeated and this point about Preston), but I’d have thought plenty of Arsenal fans would know they did it. It was reported a fair bit when we did it. I didn’t know they paid their players but I don’t really see that as a reason it shouldn’t be counted.

Liverpool would have been 12 points in front of the invincibles at this stage of the season if they played the same season. The only real chance of Liverpool slipping up is City away, City will be hugely up for that game. We play Liverpool at home near the end of the season, if they are still in Europe (could be about semi final time I think) then we might have a chance of winning, but really I expect them to go unbeaten.

It is noticeable how their intensity levels have dropped from the past few seasons, it isn't a high 'heavy metal' press all the time, they pick and choose when to go. Even though, their fitness levels, both phsyical and lack of injuries, is incredible.

It seems like only loan signings will be considered in Jan.
There is still a lot of work to do, much of it with outgoings. We've managed to shift a fair bit of deadwood in recent years but they were often peripheral players, there are still players in the first 11 who either shouldn't be here or should be a squad player only.

If you went through our squad of 25 and got rid of the 6 weakest players, then went through the 1st 11 and demoted the 6 weakest players to squad positions and bought in 6 1st team ready players we'd be on the right path. That for me is how squad building should happen. Not always that easy because players who were 1st 11 don't like being squad players so may seek a move as well.

They should be looking at a core of Leno, Bellerin (fitness permitting), Holding (fitness permitting), Saliba, Tierney, AMN, Saka, Torreira, Guendouzi, Pépé, Martinelli, Nelson as players who will be with us for the next 6 or so years (some mainly squad players). Maintain some quality older heads wherever possible and the rest are expendable.
Main targets need to be CB, Def Mid, RB, creative mid......and strikers if Aubamayang/Lacazette leaves

That’s pretty well how I see it too. I hope we’re both wrong but I’m not expecting us to be. As I said there just seems a sense of inevitability about the whole thing.

Not seen you around much lately. How are things?

The Preston one was but I didn't see the Liverpool one reported.

As for Preston's not counting because they paid their players - it was an amateur league at the time and many clubs got in trouble for paying players. Preston didn't, even though it was known about and it would appear the League knew and did nothing.

Anyway, here's Magic Man in Shoot from today in 1990 promising to be a good boy from now on. Oops.

Life.

I think he's done better than that but having watched the match just now thought we were astonishingly dire for the first 40 minutes so can understand how you feel that way.

True, I knew nothing of the Liverpool one until I read your post. Assume it went unreported because it wasn’t in the top league.

My thoughts as well.

A lot of transfer buzz surrounding the club and its exciting to some extent. Arteta is shaking things up it seems in a good way. We need to be shook up.

I like that Arteta seems to have no respect for anyone's station but talent and if you work hard and will put in a shift.

The bloke has been manager for one month. Bloody hell give him a chance.

While I agree with you tomc, it also goes the other way. I saw people declaring him as the right man for the job after two or three games. Both sides of the argument are arguably being made too soon, at least without some sort of ‘first impressions’ qualification. First impressions are inevitable. But in my opinion it’s too early to decide on Arteta, either way.

He also has the most average squad Arsenal have possessed since the mid 80s in my opinion. Few players capable of winning games. An ineffective midfield and youngsters being thrown in the deep end out of position.

Simply a recipe for disaster

He has at least got the players working harder, he worked out that we need to be tighter and at least has won the goodwill of the squad back.

Really my advice is don’t expect anything from the rest of the season, 6 wins out of 23 tells a story everyone really needs to know.

Morning Bernard

I know full well what started it .....Exiled said Rimmer and Kidd helped us stave off relegation and I added the above .

I'm not saying Mancini saved us by himself ... you got that bit ..... okay moving on .

Our results were dire before he arrived , then they improved . Bertie Mee gave him credit for lifting spirits in the dressing room thus improving results ....with me so far

"Charlie George was closer to Mee than you or I " so what ..... another smokescreen effort .

MEE SOLD HIM ; so Charlie is probably still nursing a gigantic chip on his shoulder the same way as Paul Davis is about George Graham .

This isn't a debate like "Supply and Demand " " Wiltord v Ljungberg " where you managed to muddy the water ; throw red herrings in all directions , move the goalposts so that 5000 posts apiece later it was stalemate .

No no no ...pure and simple you lost on two ocassions .... on the same subject

FINIS

NZ 8 Germany 0

Gidday Gaz ..... Arteta but has inherited probably the worst squad since the 1912 side .

There are no leaders , no national spine , awful defence , a paper mache midfield , with a hit and miss attack

For too long these players have been molly coddled wrapped up in cotton wool shielded from criticism

Overpaid and underperforming , the skill levels are really so poor .

When David Luiz is standing rooted to the ground , watching while the opposition guy half a metre away takes a free header . I just cannot figure that one .

Mikel has a major job on his hands

Good God, how on earth you can accuse me of muddying the water, I’ve no idea. In my view I walked to victory in this debate, like others you’ve opposed me on, whether or not you eventually end up making it New Zealand 50 Germany 0. Dream on. If ‘FINIS’ is FINISH misspelt and if that means you’re not going to keep responding with utter drivel then hallelujah.

Before you get all binary. I didn't say I wasn't giving Arteta a chance and actually think he's done reasonably well since joining. At the very least to increase commitment and improve the team shape and defensive structure.

What I was doing was sharing the observation of Gaz that for large chunks of the Sheffield match we were largely crap (misplaced passes, poor movement, static positioning, missed chances). There are a myriad of reasons why that could be the case (Injuries, suspensions, very young players filling in, new tactics, etc) but my comment on the match performance has nothing to do with Arteta's future.

P.s. and I also agree with Bernard on whether Arteta is the right or wrong guy and it's still too early to tell. I'm not convinced of either but can understand both sides of the fence while I sit firmly on it.

I agree that this is a major rebuild. There are lots of positives and at least hope for the future. Then I see that we are looking at some left back who is injury prone & not motivated. Are you sure we are going forward. Does Arteta have any say at all or is it a signing he wants. I will be interested to see how we go against Chelsea. One of my problems is I don’t think a leopard does change their spots and I wonder when a few will revert to type. First half against Leeds and second against Crystal P as an example. Have they really bought into the revolution or do they pretend to until the going gets tough. Not a great squad but then even Wenger took 8 at Man U before he did a panic buying spree.

I was watching youtube highlights of the left back at PSG we are getting in the summer and he looks great. Tierney is going to have to fight for his position. That LB seems like he could even be a winger.

I am sad, not disappointed, with AMN. The kid has strong potential to be a very good player. But he tends to switch off momentarily and get careless. Not sure if he is trying too hard to send knife-edge passes, or simply lump it. Too many misplaced passes, and that terrible cross the other night. Is he losing motivation because he knows he is not first choice for right midfield?

I reckon one should look at AMN as a squad back up rather than an automatic choice for the first team at either right back or midfield. I’m uncomfortable with the way people (not just you in this specific case) so often seem to fall back on questioning players’ motivation and therefore attitude (I don’t see how one can be questioned without the other). I’ve not seen anything wrong with AMN in that respect.

As a squad back up, I see him as good enough. As a first choice regular, on the evidence so far (and he has played plenty of games) I don’t. He isn’t a great (or even particularly good) passer of the ball. Moreover, if he can’t pass the ball at right back he won’t be able to from midfield so I remain unconvinced about the ‘playing out of position’ excuse. Indeed, I reckon a poor passer is likely to be exposed in midfield even more than at right back. Some may disagree with that, but it’s the way I perceive things at this point.

A useful squad member without being up to the mark to be a first choice. If he ever becomes a regular or first choice, I’d say that would be a very long way from good news.

Hmm....I wonder if the deal for Guimaraes can still get done? The highlights look good.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... w-21321228

I also wonder how the atmosphere around the club is. Hodd?

According to arsenal.com it's Mkhitaryan's birthday...lol. Forgot he is still an Arsenal player. Wonder if Arteta has considered him.

Can’t say I’ve ever seen him so what makes you say he’s unmotivated? If he misses lots of games through injury, the injury prone comment may have more substance. You, to be fair, gave strong warnings about Tierney’s injury record that others seemed to disagree with. As things turned out, with his first season almost being a write off (nine starts as the first choice left back), maybe it’s difficult to claim you were being unduly pessimistic on that score?

Anyway, I feel what’s still more debatable is Tierney’s quality. In his first couple of games against Forest and Liege at home he did look good going forward. But when they attack are Forest and Liege around the same sort of level he would have faced week in week out in the Scottish league? How much defending did he have to do at Celtic when they weren’t playing Rangers? Was it possible to tell how good a defender he was before he joined? I’m not certain it is.

Having said that, if he can stay fit I’m glad we signed him. Sadly it can be argued that his injury record showed, and it still showing, why his transfer fee was a lot less that lots of top left backs would cost, including the bloke at Leicester according to reports.

I can't say I'm especially optimistic about tonight's game. Chelsea are not a great side and are inconsistent but I think we are even worse.

A better work ethic from the players is a positive thing but it can't really hide the fact that we are lacking quality.

If Pépé turns it on and Martinelli has his finishing boots on I give us a puncher's chance but not really much more.

Walked in the living room yesterday and my son was watching a “classic” game from 2010 where we lost away to Wigan 3-2.

Our midfield 3 was Craig Eastmond, Diaby and Nasri at no10 with Rosicky and Walcott wide. Despite losing we looked quite fluid on the ball and I got wondering if I would swap that 11 for the one we have now. That’s how bad we are at the moment.

The Arsenal today in 1950. Get your Brylcream out.

btw if you look at the back of that one you can see it was re-used for a Cup Final feature. This was part of a big feature in the Picture Post.