Fixtures Sunday July 12th - Tottenham Hotspur - Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - 4:30 Pm

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Post #507081  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:01 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Arteta eh? Is he a strong enough character?

To me Ljungberg has got nothing to lose and should experiment with the young players. We have a good bunch of players but we do not need to strengthen our spine with players who can provide leadership and organisation.

He couldn't really throw on the young players against City, though. A completely disfunctional central midfield AND central defense at the same time pretty hard to fix. We just need to somehow shore things up at the back and hope we can outscore enough teams to keep our heads above water until the January transfer window.


I would like to see us recruit players from other EPL clubs. Doucoure and Schar perhaps?


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Post #507082  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Those pictures of Hector.

You'd never see anything like that back in the day when men were men and...er...


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Post #507083  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
DHD wrote:
Kolasinac ducked.

I think that it pretty unfair.


But he did.

Fairness is irrelevant.


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Post #507084  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:39 pm 
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Olympiakos. Could be worse. They tend to be dire away.

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Post #507085  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:40 pm 
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These 2 can go do one. LA Rams are their priority for success.


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Post #507086  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Little known fact

The wife of our new manager is an actress who features in CSI miami. How cool is that


https://youtu.be/sKGeOxskaWE


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Post #507087  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:13 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I think that it pretty unfair.


But he did.

Fairness is irrelevant.


What did you make of yesterday’s game DHD if you don’t mind me asking.

Can’t get it out of my head, the horror the horror


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Post #507088  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:39 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:

What did you make of yesterday’s game DHD if you don’t mind me asking.

Can’t get it out of my head, the horror the horror


Let me spare him the trouble of replying. It was embarrassing.


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Post #507089  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:00 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
Rich wrote:
We used to always be 3 or so players from really having a team, I think were 10 or so players and a manager from having a competitive top 4 team. I don’t think any of our central defence or central midfield is currently fit for purpose for the premier league.

We need to get rid of so many. Özil, Xhaka, mustafi, Sokratis, luiz, Chambers, kolasinac all not up to it. Aubameyang, Lacazette, Torriera will probably all need to be sold to raise funds.


Overreaction. Pépé, Lacazette, Aubamayeng, Torriera, Tierny (from what little I've seen), Bellerin, Holding, Guenduzzi and yes Xhaka are all Premier league quality.

I don’t want Aubameyang, Lacazette or torriera sold, just that I think they will all need to be for various reasons.
Pépé, Tierney, Bellerin, Guendouzi, Holding I’m ok with, but at the moment The first two have barely started their Arsenal career and the later 3 haven’t convinced me they are ready to be a starting 11 for an Arsenal team that makes the top 4. Two of them coming back from really bad injuries. None of those 5 were mentioned by name in my post as players who need to leave.
Xhaka, premier league quality, yes - for a mid to lower table team - which is why we need to get rid of him.....ditto the others I named. I don’t see it as an over reaction to say we need 10 new players to properly challenge for the top 4. 2 CB and 2 CM, a ramsey/Özil replacement, a new RB, kolasinac replacement.....that’s 7 and we’d still not have great depth of quality at CB and CM


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Post #507090  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:30 pm 
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To be honest the most shocking thing about appointing Arteta is that he sat on the bench yesterday and watched the entire 90 minutes and still wants to be our manager.

Must be a sado masochist


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Post #507091  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:35 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:

But he did.

Fairness is irrelevant.


What did you make of yesterday’s game DHD if you don’t mind me asking.

Can’t get it out of my head, the horror the horror


Well TG, since you ask, the first point to make is I didn’t go. I posted the tickets on the Exchange but there were no takers; my fault I know but that’s £400 down the swannee. I offered the tickets free for the asking to my extended family and circle of mates and acquaintances but zero interest. I was truly surprised at the apathy – even my own – but when I saw the great swathes of empty seats, it made more sense.

On the game, we looked great for the first 45 seconds but after they scored, it seemed to me it was just a question of how many they wanted. Mercifully, they took their foot off the gas. Pep said they played better last week against Man U and lost. I didn’t watch too much of the second half so I can’t say much more.

Overall, we are an utter shambles. The least said about our defence, the better. Collectively, we must have the worst set of defenders in our history – and I grew up on Jeff Blockley and Gus Ceaser. Our midfield is now equally worthless. They don’t defend, press, create, shoot or dribble; both individually and as a group, they are pointless! Martinelli apart, yesterday’s attack was toothless and dull. There seemed to way too much distance between the defence and midfield but then at the same time, there looked to be miles between midfield and attack. That’s some trick.

And Özil! Offski, please with extreme prejudice. He has not re-invigorated himself in the slightest. He is the same inconsequential player that was rightly excluded from the squad in the early part of the season. He exudes the same air of privilege and entitlement. Emery was right to drop him and he was wrong to bow to the pressure to re-instate him. In many ways, Özil got Emery the sack although there was plenty of help from Xkaka, Sokratis, Luiz and Mustafi, the difference being that those are 4 poor players. Özil is – was – a proper talent, though that bird has long since flown. He’s only going through the motions now, with us for the money and to give him a platform for his views.

Only Leno and Martinelli emerged with an iota of credit. The rest were just dross. And Kolasinac DID duck. I doubt he could have stopped De Bruyne’s shot but he chose self-preservation over any sort of possibly painful attempt to save a goal. Xhaka did the same against West Ham. Luis regularly turns his back. That’s this team’s attitude. Would that be what you’d expect from Tony Adams, Martin Keown, Ashley Cole, Lee Dixon?

Yesterday, before all the current rumours broke, I saw a close-up of Arteta and I wondered, regardless of my views on his qualities as a coach, why the *%^@ would he wish to be associated with such a poor and tactically inept team? What can he do with a squad that’s currently ravaged by injuries with limited funds in the transfer window? Why leave vibrant City amid rumours that St Pep if off soon, only to join a moribund and leaderless club where the rock-bottom moral of the players is only matched by the apathy and outright scorn of the support?


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Post #507092  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:52 pm 
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DHD wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

What did you make of yesterday’s game DHD if you don’t mind me asking.

Can’t get it out of my head, the horror the horror


Well TG, since you ask, the first point to make is I didn’t go. I posted the tickets on the Exchange but there were no takers; my fault I know but that’s £400 down the swannee. I offered the tickets free for the asking to my extended family and circle of mates and acquaintances but zero interest. I was truly surprised at the apathy – even my own – but when I saw the great swathes of empty seats, it made more sense.

On the game, we looked great for the first 45 seconds but after they scored, it seemed to me it was just a question of how many they wanted. Mercifully, they took their foot off the gas. Pep said they played better last week against Man U and lost. I didn’t watch too much of the second half so I can’t say much more.

Overall, we are an utter shambles. The least said about our defence, the better. Collectively, we must have the worst set of defenders in our history – and I grew up on Jeff Blockley and Gus Ceaser. Our midfield is now equally worthless. They don’t defend, press, create, shoot or dribble; both individually and as a group, they are pointless! Martinelli apart, yesterday’s attack was toothless and dull. There seemed to way too much distance between the defence and midfield but then at the same time, there looked to be miles between midfield and attack. That’s some trick.

And Özil! Offski, please with extreme prejudice. He has not re-invigorated himself in the slightest. He is the same inconsequential player that was rightly excluded from the squad in the early part of the season. He exudes the same air of privilege and entitlement. Emery was right to drop him and he was wrong to bow to the pressure to re-instate him. In many ways, Özil got Emery the sack although there was plenty of help from Xkaka, Sokratis, Luiz and Mustafi, the difference being that those are 4 poor players. Özil is – was – a proper talent, though that bird has long since flown. He’s only going through the motions now, with us for the money and to give him a platform for his views.

Only Leno and Martinelli emerged with an iota of credit. The rest were just dross. And Kolasinac DID duck. I doubt he could have stopped De Bruyne’s shot but he chose self-preservation over any sort of possibly painful attempt to save a goal. Xhaka did the same against West Ham. Luis regularly turns his back. That’s this team’s attitude. Would that be what you’d expect from Tony Adams, Martin Keown, Ashley Cole, Lee Dixon?

Yesterday, before all the current rumours broke, I saw a close-up of Arteta and I wondered, regardless of my views on his qualities as a coach, why the *%^@ would he wish to be associated with such a poor and tactically inept team? What can he do with a squad that’s currently ravaged by injuries with limited funds in the transfer window? Why leave vibrant City amid rumours that St Pep if off soon, only to join a moribund and leaderless club where the rock-bottom moral of the players is only matched by the apathy and outright scorn of the support?


Cheers DHD,

Only reason I was asking really was that I knew you were a season ticket holder and I just saw stuff yesterday that I’d never seen before.

The atmosphere is just dead and there were empty seats which I’d obviously seen before but at half time saw tons of people leaving.

Then during the 2nd half there was 2 guys Sat to the right of where I was sat giving dogs abuse to ....... Bernd Leno of all people ! (Amongst a couple of others)

My dad who was sat on the other side of the ground and is an old school hardcore wont leave till full time type fan text me to say he was off to the duchess of Kent with 20 minutes to go. He had enough and obviously tons of people left early but the feeling in the crowd is a combination of apathy and anger.

I can’t explain it but it just feels ... dead. Like end of days and people have had it. Arteta is the next sacrificial bunny so that Kroenke can increase the value of his shareholding. It must be a nightmare to play in front of however the performance was just shocking


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Post #507093  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
DHD wrote:
Kolasinac ducked.

I think that it pretty unfair.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQwSUGNKyj8 ...

He wouldn't have stopped the shot ... it was too high .
.... but he certainly shrunk away from the possibility of blocking it which isn't something you expect a committed defender to do .


I watched the extended highlights on my Premier League channel ...... :laughing7: we didn't feature at all in any of the action .


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Post #507094  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:15 pm 
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So in Queensland, the health authorities have given new advice that people should be restricting themselves to 1.4 standard drinks per day of alcohol. Obviously they can't expect Arsenal fans to comply at the moment.

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Post #507095  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:17 pm 
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Zed wrote:
These 2 can go do one. LA Rams are their priority for success.

No man can serve 2 masters.

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Post #507096  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:18 pm 
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...although I must admit the stadium looks like its going to be very, very nice when I drove past it. :1laughter:

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Post #507097  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Palace got a point and are now above us in the league. Great

Look at the 3 teams above us. We are falling at a critical rate now.

They are going to need to do something in January to stop the rot. Swap player or trade to reinvigorate the squad as they are flat.


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Post #507098  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:26 pm 
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Just read a theory that Özil released that statement as a tactic to stop arsenal being able to sell him to a club in the Chinese super league (the only ones who could afford him)

Would make sense. Ie make it untenable


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Post #507099  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:28 pm 
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As much as I am intrugued by the possibility of Arteta I really do think it is an almightly gamble, and really one that a club the size of Arsenal should not be taking at this point.

Man U did much the same with Solskaar but only after an amazing start to his caretaker role when he became the darling of the fans and he was at least an actual manager who had managed before in the PL, albeit unsuccessfully. They probably feel now that they may have acted in haste. Time will tell on that one.

This feels a lot like when Brian Kidd was the no.2 under Fergie and everyone lauded his coaching skills and expected him to become a top manager. He went to Blackburn and just couldn't make the adjustment from coach to manager.

I hope Arteta is the real deal.


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Post #507100  Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:48 pm 
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I've been almost looking forward to relegation.
I thought "That'll be one in the eye for the Kroenkes!"

But here we are, deja vu. Arteta is going to be our new manager. Yes, really definitely.
Oh, but maybe it's too much of a risk. We need someone with experience. Who's won things. Things that would get us into the big money CL again. Without having to win lots of games against good teams. Someone with experience of doing it with a not very good team. Maybe there's another one of those around this year.
We'll see. I won't believe anything until it's all signed and sealed.


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Post #507101  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:02 am 
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I think we are focusing too much on the quality of the individual players. Yes, most don't seem that good or motivated. But why?

One of the characteristics of very good managers is that they improve players. Klopp does it. Guardiola. Poch. AW did it for most of his time here - and many players looked worse when they left.
But I think we can look across the whole of our current team and see players who seem worse than they used to be. For me, that's the proof that Emery was a bad manager.

We need a manager who can turn that round. Won't be easy or fast because of the scale of the decline, but also because of the psychological scars they must be carrying by now and that any playing style they had accumulated has been systematically dismantled. And with no coherent normal pattern to fit into.

Özil maybe being an exception. He seems more interested in Muslim/Turkish politics than football. And whatever is going on in his head seems to have been gradually building up over quite a few years.


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Post #507102  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:20 am 
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Equally focusing too much on the managers when trying to understand what's going wrong. Ljunberg hasn't seemed that great, but he's had a set of players, out of form shall we say, plus injuries and no support staff. And the no support staff was always telling him what he needed to know about the club's intended next step.

I think Emery was a bad manager, but I'm not sure what involvement he had in signings, with the exception of the lamentable Suarez.

And AW gets a lot of flak over the current crop, but one of the things I noticed is that the types of players over his last few years didn't really fit the types of players he liked. We could see he wanted Sanchez. Özil was just picked up in a last day 'bargain' sale from RM. To show we were still a big club. After years of AW apparently being starved of funds for new signings. We know Gazidis had a plan to reduce AW's control of football processes. Hard to know the truth from outside, but I think the odds are many of those buys being more influenced by the new club 'processes' than being AW choices.

I saw AW saying that the club had 70 employees when he started, but 750 when he left. Looking at the results I think it would have been much better if Gazidis had been kept away from football matters. Not that he seemed to be doing as well on the financial and contract sides as other big clubs either.

It was supposed to have been his casting vote to choose Emery over Artetà last year. Because he so impressed them at the interview. Emery? Impressed at an interview. In English? Just a story, of course. Doesn't seem that it could be true. And Gazidis claimed the decision was unanimous.


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Post #507103  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:39 am 
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The one thing we can all see is that the whole contracting side of the club has performed abysmally for ten years or so. Paying too much, wages too high, selling too low, slow to make decisions. Some of that might have been Wenger, but all of it can't have been. And from a strategic point of view, it's got worse not better.

Last summer seemed like a potentially exciting success. or a lot of fans thought so. Pépé so expensive, and young; exciting and successful. But did we really want a winger that much? Saka starting to come through. We bought Saliba as a CB. Did we need a CB? - obviously we did. So our new signing was loaned out for the year. Presumably the only way we could sign him, but the outcome was we didn't have a new CB. Except a last minute 'bargain basement' Luiz. Mmm. That can't have been planned. And whoever thought Luiz would be a good buy to plug holes in a defence? He had often been a loose cannon in an otherwise very tight Chelsea defence. Aubameyang and Lacazette? Tierney was a gamble. Not paying off yet, but maybe he'll get less injury prone. Not that we've had much success with players getting less injury prone. The one outstanding success is Martinelli; I'll assume that's down to Edu since that brings hope he might find a few more. It's all total chaos.


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Post #507104  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:45 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Just read a theory that Özil released that statement as a tactic to stop arsenal being able to sell him to a club in the Chinese super league (the only ones who could afford him)

Would make sense. Ie make it untenable


He will not be heading to China anymore. His tweet killed all chances.

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Post #507105  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:03 am 
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I don't recall Arteta displaying any leadership on the pitch and don't think he has the gravitas to re-arrange the current lazy bunch.

Terminating Ozils contract would be the strongest message Arsenal could send to the squad right now.


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Post #507106  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:08 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Just read a theory that Özil released that statement as a tactic to stop arsenal being able to sell him to a club in the Chinese super league (the only ones who could afford him)

Would make sense. Ie make it untenable


He will not be heading to China anymore. His tweet killed all chances.


We just have to accept the fact that we are stuck with Özil until his contract expires.

Ljungberg is trying the Wenger man management approach with him but seems like not working to motivate our highest paid player. I suppose just use him in the FA Cup and Europa League this season.


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Post #507107  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:20 am 
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I think we can write off this season and hope to do a Leicester next season. They finished 9th last season if not mistaken and look likely they will finish top four this season.

Whoever the new manager is, I hope he will do a GG and play the young players and get them to play the way he wants. If that means selling Aubameyang, so be it.


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Post #507108  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:26 am 
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Martinelli is a great prospect. I'd hate to lose Aubameyang but Martinelli has super start written on him.

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Post #507109  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:52 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Just read a theory that Özil released that statement as a tactic to stop arsenal being able to sell him to a club in the Chinese super league (the only ones who could afford him)

Would make sense. Ie make it untenable


He will not be heading to China anymore. His tweet killed all chances.

Yes

Like i said; it makes his position untenable and might be deliberate. He’s trying to get a pay off


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Post #507110  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:55 am 
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grantyboy wrote:
I don't recall Arteta displaying any leadership on the pitch and don't think he has the gravitas to re-arrange the current lazy bunch.

Terminating Ozils contract would be the strongest message Arsenal could send to the squad right now.

That’s fine but that involves paying Özil another 10 million to cancel the contract

The only message it sends is that if you act up you can make a fortune if they can cancel your contract too.


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Post #507111  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:56 am 
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Look at the stats

The midfield is non existent

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... ield-ozil/


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Post #507112  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Just read a theory that Özil released that statement as a tactic to stop arsenal being able to sell him to a club in the Chinese super league (the only ones who could afford him)

Would make sense. Ie make it untenable

No player can be sold against their will.....as long as their will is strong enough. You can’t fine a player for refusing to leave, all you can do is make them train with the kids and not pick them. Özil doesn’t seem overly bothered by that. If he was bothered he’d surely show a bit more in games.
If Özil wants to stay and see out his contract then he will


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Post #507113  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:33 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Martinelli is a great prospect. I'd hate to lose Aubameyang but Martinelli has super start written on him.

I think Aubameyang is off this summer. He is clearly not renewing, and even if he did would it be sensible for a club like ours, one that is rebuilding, to have a superstar striker on £300k per week on a deal that takes him to he is 34?
Sell him for £60-80m to one of the big Spanish two and invest that money in defence


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Post #507114  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:57 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
gooner7 wrote:

He will not be heading to China anymore. His tweet killed all chances.

Yes

Like i said; it makes his position untenable and might be deliberate. He’s trying to get a pay off


Or he might be someone genuinely interested in highlighting the greatest mass incarceration since WWII. It is not always about money.

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Post #507115  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:03 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yes

Like i said; it makes his position untenable and might be deliberate. He’s trying to get a pay off


Or he might be someone genuinely interested in highlighting the greatest mass incarceration since WWII. It is not always about money.


I wouldn’t trust his character as far as I’d throw it.

If it was another player maybe


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Post #507116  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:08 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yes

Like i said; it makes his position untenable and might be deliberate. He’s trying to get a pay off


Or he might be someone genuinely interested in highlighting the greatest mass incarceration since WWII. It is not always about money.


Yes it's a tricky one isn't if Gunny?

His comments certainly don't help the Club as they try to build their fan base in China - nor do they help the PL as they build the world-wide brand of English football. Does he have a right to speak out? Undoubtedly as a man but should celebrities and public figures use their fame like this?

Seems to me that if the cause is important - and I agree this one is - anything that shines a light on such an outrageous disregard for human rights is fair enough.


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Post #507117  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:07 am 
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With it looking like Arteta (37) thought I'd copy this list that Andy Kelly (@Gooner_AK) posted on twitter of ages of previous managers when they took over.


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Post #507118  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:16 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
grantyboy wrote:
I don't recall Arteta displaying any leadership on the pitch and don't think he has the gravitas to re-arrange the current lazy bunch.

Terminating Ozils contract would be the strongest message Arsenal could send to the squad right now.

That’s fine but that involves paying Özil another 10 million to cancel the contract

The only message it sends is that if you act up you can make a fortune if they can cancel your contract too.


I dont think so. Özil is a toxic influence on all those around him and they need to cut him out. the longer he stays the more he will infect others.
being sacked I think it unlikely anyone would be rushing to buy him, nor paying a fraction of what he's on now. Maybe in Turkey or something but who else would want to be living and playing over there. Other players might act up like you say but stick them in the kids training for 9 months and don't play them at all and see if they're happy with it. Özil is so unprofessional that he doesn't care, nor does he seem to have any interest in playing football. I doubt other players are the same and most want to be on the pitch and playing. Real Madrid dumped him quick smart when he was supposedly in his prime. Germany wanted nothing to do with him. But under the tender mother hen wing of Wenger he crawled. Get rid of him.


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Post #507119  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:37 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:

I wouldn’t trust his character as far as I’d throw it.

If it was another player maybe


You know absolutely nothing about him off the pitch.

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Post #507120  Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:40 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Gunfire wrote:

Or he might be someone genuinely interested in highlighting the greatest mass incarceration since WWII. It is not always about money.


Yes it's a tricky one isn't if Gunny?

His comments certainly don't help the Club as they try to build their fan base in China - nor do they help the PL as they build the world-wide brand of English football. Does he have a right to speak out? Undoubtedly as a man but should celebrities and public figures use their fame like this?

Seems to me that if the cause is important - and I agree this one is - anything that shines a light on such an outrageous disregard for human rights is fair enough.


I think some regimes are so odious that to not speak out would be the less moral course. Özil is a devout Muslim so him championing his co-religionists is not a surprise.

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