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Post #506561  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:56 am 
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tomc wrote:
DHD wrote:
One of many worrying aspects about our current state is that there doesn't seem to be the 'New Manager Bounce' you often see when someone new takes over. Nobody has seemed particularly enervated or prepared to run through brick walls for Freddie in his two games so far.

That doesn't bode well.

Bang average players who aren't as good as they think they are, who also can't be arsed to put the graft in. Not a good combo. Bottom 3 material.



Totally agree with you. And if I could just add most are grossly overpaid as well. This means they are also unsellable as no one would waste money on substandard overpaid wasters.

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Post #506562  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:21 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
If 3 is true then that is very bad. I know Emery wanted some other CB. I don't actually think Emery had much say in who came in during the transfer window.

What do you mean, 'If 3 is true'? TG gave you the answer as a cold, hard, verifiable truth-bomb. What part of 'is factual' don't you understand, Gaz?


"Truth bomb". :laughing7:


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Post #506563  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:27 pm 
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DHD wrote:
One of many worrying aspects about our current state is that there doesn't seem to be the 'New Manager Bounce' you often see when someone new takes over. Nobody has seemed particularly enervated or prepared to run through brick walls for Freddie in his two games so far.

That doesn't bode well.


They also know he's not going to be interim manager for too long and therefore they feel they can coast while waiting for the new one.

At my work the big cheese just resigned and everyone is holding their breath waiting for the new guy to take over in the new year. They're still working but certainly not busting a hump because the uncertainty is creating anxiety about jobs. While.im sure having a squllion dollars tucked away makes a different it is still change and some people take a while to adapt. Since 3 of the players that keep getting selected are buttercups, I have no delusions that they'd be infecting the team. Inject some new blood and enthusiasm now.


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Post #506564  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:34 pm 
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I still think the best front three are Lacazette, Aubameyang, Pépé.

Anyone but Özil behind that (I actually prefer Maitland Niles who must have learnt something about defending by now) and then Torreira and Guendouzi.

Drop *%^@*** Luiz, drop *%^@*** Özil and drop *%^@*** Xhaka. They are too lazy, too slow and too *%^@*** stupid. You pick the description that matches each player.


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Post #506565  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:13 pm 
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It’s not Rogers then ! Allegri ? Said he wouldn’t join a club mid season though.

Ummmn Ancelotti or Benitez. Kenny Dalgleish as player manager


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Post #506566  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:08 pm 
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It's applying a sticking plaster to a much bigger wound but surely it is worth giving Chambers and Holding a go together in central defence. They seem to have a very good relationship off the pitch so hopefully might be able to build a decent partnership on it.

It can't be any worse than any combination of Luiz/Mustafi/Sokratis - Dumb, dumber, and really *%^@*** stupid.


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Post #506567  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:07 pm 
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tomc wrote:
It's applying a sticking plaster to a much bigger wound but surely it is worth giving Chambers and Holding a go together in central defence. They seem to have a very good relationship off the pitch so hopefully might be able to build a decent partnership on it.

It can't be any worse than any combination of Luiz/Mustafi/Sokratis - Dumb, dumber, and really *%^@*** stupid.

Agreed Tom
Could Holding and Chambers be any worse than the current shitshow.
I hate the way that Luiz just seems to be a nailed on starter no matter what.
Its him plus one.
Why cant he be dropped???
Neither him or Sokratis have been convincing.
What's happened to Mavrapanos as well.
Our club is severely in trouble. I really thought there would be a new manager bounce with Freddie but nothing.
There was just no energy or pace about yesterdays performance or in general. It was shocking.
Rodgers has just signed a new contract so wont be him.
We had to win yesterday to keep alive any slim hopes of top 4. That ship has now sailed.
Also hated the way Aubameyang treated Willock yesterday.
Berating him for that miss pass. Disgraceful behaviour from a captain to a young player.


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Post #506568  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:10 pm 
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Allegri has stated he wont be coming back mid season either.
So who are we going to turn to?????
With Aubameyang and Lacazette not looking like they will sign new contracts then they simply need to be sold in the summer.


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Post #506569  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
9th Dec: West Ham United (20:00) Arsenal - draw

15th Dec: Arsenal(16:30) Manchester City - lose

21st Dec: Everton (12:30) Arsenal - draw

26th Dec: AFC Bournemouth (15:00)Arsenal - draw

29th Dec: Arsenal (14:00)Chelsea -lose

1st Jan: Arsenal (20:00) Manchester United -lose



So where’s our next 3 points folks....


3 draws, our next 3 points

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Post #506570  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Rich wrote:
The multiple sticking plasters we had on this team have been ripped off, and every team in the league can see how exposed we are and how to beat us. It is the easiest tactical set up for any coach. Even up until last season plenty of teams gave us too much respect and we probably beat them due to their passive play. Now everyone can truly see us for what we are.

It is humiliating


For every team playing against us, first tactical play is very easy. Put their fastest midfielder where Xhaka is. And guaranteed to waltz past him and expect no response.

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Post #506571  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:50 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:

....guaranteed to waltz past him and expect no response.


Not quite G7. Xhaka's preferred response is to pull them back and get booked.


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Post #506572  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:13 pm 
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We think we have problems.....the FAI jesus h christ!

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Post #506573  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:28 pm 
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I think Aubameyang's berating of Willock for a misplaced pass was extremely poor. It wasn't the worst idea in the world from Willock, a little pass inside the fullback, but Aubameyang stopped his run and made the pass look far worse than it actually was. It was more a than a misunderstanding than anything.


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Post #506574  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though


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Post #506575  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:40 pm 
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Rodgers has signed a long term contract with Leicester. Options narrowing.

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Post #506576  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:02 pm 
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What a basket case we are.

Get Pochettino in now, about the best option out there as things stand.

Will be interesting to see if we go panic buying in January given the situation we're in. The very least they should do is try and bring forward the Saliba deal, anything at the back will be better than we have at present.

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Post #506577  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:55 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
If we don't make the Europa league next year I think we might have a mass exodus of players wanting to leave the club:

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case Gaz ....

I see a ton of "passengers " content to pick up decent wages without busting a gut to turn things around .

Leno , Aubameyang , Lacazette and Pépé would probably go if offers came in

.......but the main culprits responsible for our predicament Mustafi , Sokratis , Luiz , Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka .... they aren't going anywhere

.........and who in their right mind would want them anyway .

I was in England in 1974 / 75 ....went to a fair few games when we flirted with relegation and I'd say we are in greater peril now .

It was a much more "level playing field " back then ...we lost games but were always in the contest '

We had Alan Ball an absolute titan in the leadership stakes . Talking the whole time , barking instructions , never shirked a challenge .

We don't have that now ..... we have a few quality individuals but no team , no leader , no tactics .

We are in the middle of the Atlantic sitting in a fast deflating rubber lifeboat ... with half a dozen Makos circling .

Ljungberg isn't the answer , simpering away post match , when full blown fire and brimstone is needed .

There is an " all too simple game plan " on how to play us and we haven't the personel or any idea how to combat it


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Post #506578  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:16 pm 
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I have zero expectations from us game to game. When we play a top 6 side, I'm not expecting a win. A draw, even at home, is a 'win' to me right now. I'm meloncholy about it. We've seen this happen to the biggest clubs.
"...and this too shall pass"

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Post #506579  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:52 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though


Agreed Aubameyang will have to be sold. But a nagging doubt remains. He is our one goalscorer and relegated teams tend to go down due to a lack of goals. At least we are still scoring. I don't think we can afford to sell him till we are safe

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Post #506580  Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:56 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
If we don't make the Europa league next year I think we might have a mass exodus of players wanting to leave the club:

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case Gaz ....

I see a ton of "passengers " content to pick up decent wages without busting a gut to turn things around .

Leno , Aubameyang , Lacazette and Pépé would probably go if offers came in

.......but the main culprits responsible for our predicament Mustafi , Sokratis , Luiz , Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka .... they aren't going anywhere

.........and who in their right mind would want them anyway .

I was in England in 1974 / 75 ....went to a fair few games when we flirted with relegation and I'd say we are in greater peril now .

It was a much more "level playing field " back then ...we lost games but were always in the contest '

We had Alan Ball an absolute titan in the leadership stakes . Talking the whole time , barking instructions , never shirked a challenge .

We don't have that now ..... we have a few quality individuals but no team , no leader , no tactics .

We are in the middle of the Atlantic sitting in a fast deflating rubber lifeboat ... with half a dozen Makos circling .

Ljungberg isn't the answer , simpering away post match , when full blown fire and brimstone is needed .

There is an " all too simple game plan " on how to play us and we haven't the personel or any idea how to combat it



We also had the remains of the double team. Simpson, Kelly, Storey, Radford, Geordie, Rice as well as Rimmer and Kidd. Plus Alan Ball. Also a young Irish wizard was just starting to show us how good he was going to be.

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Post #506581  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:42 am 
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DHD wrote:
gooner7 wrote:

....guaranteed to waltz past him and expect no response.


Not quite G7. Xhaka's preferred response is to pull them back and get booked.


True that

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Post #506582  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:03 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
DHD wrote:

Not quite G7. Xhaka's preferred response is to pull them back and get booked.


True that

And then act surprised that it happened.


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Post #506583  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:04 am 
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socrates wrote:
I think Aubameyang's berating of Willock for a misplaced pass was extremely poor. It wasn't the worst idea in the world from Willock, a little pass inside the fullback, but Aubameyang stopped his run and made the pass look far worse than it actually was. It was more a than a misunderstanding than anything.

Thought that when I saw it live and still think Aubameyang was the person who f...ed it up.

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Post #506584  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:05 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Ok - grab it

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Post #506585  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:11 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
If we don't make the Europa league next year I think we might have a mass exodus of players wanting to leave the club:

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case Gaz ....

I see a ton of "passengers " content to pick up decent wages without busting a gut to turn things around .

Leno , Aubameyang , Lacazette and Pépé would probably go if offers came in

.......but the main culprits responsible for our predicament Mustafi , Sokratis , Luiz , Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka .... they aren't going anywhere

.........and who in their right mind would want them anyway .

I was in England in 1974 / 75 ....went to a fair few games when we flirted with relegation and I'd say we are in greater peril now .

It was a much more "level playing field " back then ...we lost games but were always in the contest '

We had Alan Ball an absolute titan in the leadership stakes . Talking the whole time , barking instructions , never shirked a challenge .

We don't have that now ..... we have a few quality individuals but no team , no leader , no tactics .

We are in the middle of the Atlantic sitting in a fast deflating rubber lifeboat ... with half a dozen Makos circling .

Ljungberg isn't the answer , simpering away post match , when full blown fire and brimstone is needed .

There is an " all too simple game plan " on how to play us and we haven't the personel or any idea how to combat it

40 points seems a long way away at the moment. Talking of players leaving I will bet that both Willock and Martinelli's agents have had phone calls already.. Willock maybe midtable EPL teams but Martinelli he will have some bigger clubs looking even now.

At least if we end in the championship Stoke should still be a division below us still.

I watched Millwall Notts Forest this morning..Most of our players could not survive in the championship.

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Post #506586  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:20 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though


Hi TG,

I think you would have to take it if he isn't signing a new deal (and why would he to be fair).

Let's face it we aren't going to finish top four, we won't win the Europa League with our shite defence and midfield. Might as well take the money amd Jovic (if its even true they are offering him) and re-invest in a CB or two.

Lacazette, Martinelli and Jovic would not be the worst forward options.


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Post #506587  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:32 am 
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I think someone like Ralf Rangnik might be worth looking at.

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Post #506588  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:39 am 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though


Hi TG,

I think you would have to take it if he isn't signing a new deal (and why would he to be fair).

Let's face it we aren't going to finish top four, we won't win the Europa League with our shite defence and midfield. Might as well take the money amd Jovic (if its even true they are offering him) and re-invest in a CB or two.

Lacazette, Martinelli and Jovic would not be the worst forward options.

I think you might see a large turn over of players this summer as many jump ship or the new manager brings in his own.

Just read that Lacazettes contract doesn’t expire until June 2022 so Aubameyang is more pressing but he is exhibiting all the signs of a guy who wants out too.


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Post #506589  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:59 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Rumours that Real Madrid want aubameyang and are prepared to offer 70milllion plus Jovic or Rodriguez.

Pretty decent fee for a 30 year old you can’t deny. Not sure we are in a position to sell our best player right now though. They can have mustafi, Xhaka or Luiz though

Ok - grab it

Yes to selling Aubameyang. If Real are offering £70m plus Jovic (who they bought for £50m) I’d rather just have the £120m. Clearly the money will be nowhere near that as with only 12 months left on his deal and he’s 30 already I think Real will obviously low-ball it and we’ll struggle to get £50m total. Just take it and move on.

I want to see us purchase forwards similar to Martinelli, or the salah/mane/son type. Players who can play wide or up front, flexible, incredibly mobile, massively hard working, bags of pace and tenacity. I 100% believe this is the style of forward that is needed to be the best now.


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Post #506590  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:02 am 
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Darren wrote:
I think someone like Ralf Rangnik might be worth looking at.

Good call.

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Post #506591  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:35 am 
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Presumably we really are no longer one of the “big six” whatever the hell that is anyway. I don’t recall such a term in the decade when we were slugging it out with Man U.

Will the media switch to “big five” now?

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Post #506592  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:19 am 
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Greeny wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
Presumably we really are no longer one of the “big six” whatever the hell that is anyway. I don’t recall such a term in the decade when we were slugging it out with Man U.

Will the media switch to “big five” now?

We were one of the "Big 4" a while back, as I recall

I think the term had more to it than league finish. Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool have all finished outside the top 6 in the last 5 years but weren’t discounted from that group.
It is as much to do with the size of the club, but stay outside that elite for a prolonged period and we will be discounted. Everton were in the original big 5 when the premier league started, miles outside that now.

As for the question as why would any coach join us, yes we are in a mess but look at the size and potential of the club. The stadium in place, a huge fan base itching for success, massive sponsor deals - put all that in comparison to smaller clubs no matter how well they are run and the appeal of Arsenal is still huge.


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Post #506593  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:43 am 
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Allegri quotes are quite interesting. It won’t be him either


Speaking to ESPN, he explained: ‘I don’t know if you can call it a sabbatical or not. As soon as the relationship with Juventus came to an end, the decision was to take a year out. ‘Next year will be an important year. Important for the choice I end up making and the need to be prepared for it. After a year out and five years at Juventus, I don’t want to go back into the game and do badly.’


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Post #506594  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:03 pm 
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I’ve been disappointed in the two starting line ups and formations we’ve played since Emery was sacked. It just feels like more of the same including Willock being the fall guy in the early subs.

A few things are clear to me.
Pépé needs to start every game, he is a threat
We can’t play Özil away from home - I’m not even sure we can play him at home
We can’t play Aubameyang and Lacazette away from home and the balance is generally not right with both in the team unless we have 3 at the back
We must get natural width in the team - for me this means Saka or martinelli wide left
Luiz and Sokratis should not be paired together
Sadly the team does seem a bit more stable with Xhaka in the team - yes it is that bad
We’re missing ceballos even though he hasn’t done a huge amount he still keeps the ball better


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Post #506595  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Aubameyang is not Captain material. I think he wants out. Sadly :20hospitals:

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Post #506596  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Our next two games West Ham away and Everton away. Apart from Watford and us these two teams are probably in the worst run of form in the league.

We should be preying on their lack of confidence and using the fact that we are better footballers to go out and beat them.

However, if you’re in a bad patch THE team you want to play at home is Arsenal. I can predict how both games will go, I’ve seen it all before. We’ll start ok but not enough to silence the crowd, we’ll make mistakes which encourage them, they will crunch a few tackles and fire off some long range efforts both of which will get the crowd on their side as they feel they can get at us. Eventually we’ll go 1-0 down and the place will be bouncing but still nervous. Confidence comes back and high press and plenty of shots on our goal follow. We may concede another or it’ll end 1-0 and we’ll be lucky to get more than 3 shots on goal all game.


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Post #506597  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 pm 
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Greeny wrote:
Rich wrote:
I think the term had more to it than league finish. Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool have all finished outside the top 6 in the last 5 years but weren’t discounted from that group.
It is as much to do with the size of the club, but stay outside that elite for a prolonged period and we will be discounted. Everton were in the original big 5 when the premier league started, miles outside that now.

See the post above, Everton were Big 4 in the 70's/80's
Rich wrote:
As for the question as why would any coach join us, yes we are in a mess but look at the size and potential of the club. The stadium in place, a huge fan base itching for success, massive sponsor deals - put all that in comparison to smaller clubs no matter how well they are run and the appeal of Arsenal is still huge.

I don't agree. You could say the same about Tottenham.

The problem with coming to The Arsenal is you will be compared to Wenger and his Invincibles, and playing to a half-empty, soul-less corporate bowl is not really that much of a draw.

Wouldn't it be better for a manager to go to a mid-sized Club and make them massive?

I'm looking at Leicester City. Decent Stadium, ever-increasing, fresh, new fan base.
Newcastle. Big Stadium, massive fan-base.
Villa. Sleeping Giant, 2nd City team, great History.
West Ham. Huge Stadium, loyal fan-base, Academy, etc.

There's always a selling-point for coming to a Club, not least the wages

What about Brighton or Bournemouth? "Cool" Clubs, on the South Coast, plenty of cash, a chance to create something new and special.

No, I think the lure of Arsenal is not all that anymore, despite what we would all like to imagine

Add to that an ownership devoid of on field ambition, as long as the bucks are rolling steadily in.


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Post #506598  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:22 pm 
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I watch various team in the league who never press high, but as soon as they play us they press high and effectively. Those players can be coached to play a decent pressing game within a week. We also contribute by seemingly having no plan of how to counter a high press.
So why can’t the Arsenal players press? For me it is completely down to attitude and work rate. Most of this team are not willing to work hard enough to execute a high press, also they are too nervous to do it because the high press needs the whole team to buy in to it and our midfield and defence know they turn slower than an oil tanker and have snails pace so are unwilling to press high and with full conviction.

But then we get the worst of both worlds, we sit off and don’t engage the man with the ball. Completely passive. It’s qhy teams have so many shots at our goal, because we let teams stroll in to the positions where they can have a shot. Every game 2 passes from defence regularly takes out our front 6 no problem


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Post #506599  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Greeny wrote:
I'm looking at Leicester City. Decent Stadium, ever-increasing, fresh, new fan base.
Newcastle. Big Stadium, massive fan-base.
Villa. Sleeping Giant, 2nd City team, great History.
West Ham. Huge Stadium, loyal fan-base, Academy, etc.
What about Brighton or Bournemouth? "Cool" Clubs, on the South Coast, plenty of cash, a chance to create something new and special.

No, I think the lure of Arsenal is not all that anymore, despite what we would all like to imagine

So if Leicester, Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Brighton, Bournemouth and Arsenal all sacked their managers and all went for the same manager you don’t think Arsenal would be that manager’s first choice?

Take all the points you’ve made in favour of the clubs above; big stadium, massive fan base, good academy, sleeping giant, chance to create something special and that all applies to Arsenal!


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Post #506600  Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:37 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Add to that an ownership devoid of on field ambition, as long as the bucks are rolling steadily in.

The table above showed Arsenal with the 3rd highest net spend in the league over the last 5 years. I’m sure there are plenty of managers out there that would look at that and think they could do something with that kind of money and a non-interfering owner.

I’m no fan on Kronke and his lack of ambition but quite simply the money has been there and if it had been better spent, with a better manager and with a much clearer vision from the footballing side of this club then there is no reason why we wouldn’t be up in the champions league spots.

Given the money spent there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the team should be doing better than they are irrespective of Kronke.

If we’d managed player contracts better and swallowed our pride when having to sell players, or got proper prices for sold players, we could have had another £200m to play with from the likes of Sanchez, Ramsey, szczesny, Gabriel, wilshere and countless others allowed to go for free or cut price.


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