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Post #510081  Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:37 pm 
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Decaf wrote:

Your view that not implementing the referendum shakes democracy to the roots makes no sense to me.

The vote to leave won the day and now you have the crazies , looneys and " the think they know betters " out in force trying to force a reversal

... if they get their way ...... ..... that will galvanise the crazies , looneys and " think they know betters ' from the other side to start rabble rousing .

You can't see that is a danger to democracy ....... ? :icon_scratch:


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Post #510082  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:12 am 
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I know we still have a day before Spurs but I would be interested to know what others think about players & tactics for the game. Not sure I would play Xhaka( but think Emery will); would select Pépé but bring him on after 60 minutes; Lacazette & Aubameyang to start; I suppose we have no choice but to pick Luiz but I think he is problem. I want us to attacking & only occasionally play it out from the back but I think I will be whistling for that to happen & I expect Spurs to be shutting us down all the time. I am more than a little concerned with this game although Spurs are not playing all that well so we should be okay.

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Post #510083  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:18 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Tell me exactly how being part of the EU has benefited ordinary people of the UK in terms of social housing, education, health and social equality, all of which have deteriorated in our years of EU membership.


Ok, youre so wrong on this it hurts. My son is doing a PHD at Bath University which is entirely funded by an EU grant, as are the vast majority of higher diplomas in this country. He is also 40k in debt because our own government, the ones we want to hand power back to, have made sure that further education now costs an absolute fortune. His degree cost 40k because thats the UK education system, his PHD has cost nothing because of the EU. In Germany his degree would have cost nothing because the German government recognise the importance of higher education for their population and the positive effect it will have on their future, and they have the ability to make independent decisions on who should pay for it. They are not bound by EU directives on this. My son is also not doing a PHD because his mum and dad are rich, powerful, or entitled. Hes clever.

Recently my wifes health deteriorated due to her ulcerative colitis. Last year she had the majority of her large intestine, colon, and rectum removed and just about fought off septicaemia and now lives with a stoma bag. Her operation was performed by a marvellous Italian surgeon on the NHS, and 90% of the nurses who cared for her during her 3 weeks in hospital were EU immigrants. Without the EU and the free movement of trade and people our NHS wouldnt exist and my wife might well be dead.

So both of my direct family members have had their lives positively enhanced by the EU.

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Post #510084  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:32 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I know we still have a day before Spurs but I would be interested to know what others think about players & tactics for the game. Not sure I would play Xhaka( but think Emery will); would select Pépé but bring him on after 60 minutes; Lacazette & Aubameyang to start; I suppose we have no choice but to pick Luiz but I think he is problem. I want us to attacking & only occasionally play it out from the back but I think I will be whistling for that to happen & I expect Spurs to be shutting us down all the time. I am more than a little concerned with this game although Spurs are not playing all that well so we should be okay.


I would pick Luiz, and have him mark Kane. Give him lots of grief, but ask him not to be stupid with his hands around the box. We need the guile of Luiz to counter Kane and or Son.

Unfortunately Xhaka will start, because his size matters. He just needs to be faster with the ball. When will Emery start to get him to release the ball earlier?

Torreira is a starter for me. His tenacity is needed. Guendozi has become less effective in his role. He is becoming an "Elneny", abeit a notch higher.

Be brave and start all of Aubameyang, Lacazette and Pépé. Give Spurs something to worry about from the onset. Emery has to stop doubting his team and his players. Play these 3, and let them give Spurs little time to settle.

Talking of which, please play faster from the back. The slow-mo, many triangle passes at the back, is as irritating as the tippy-tappy from the past era. This facet of Emery's tactics is my current dislike of his style. It is not even effective, so why keep doing the same over and over?

Leno
AMN Sok Luiz Monreal
Torreira Xhaka
Pépé Ceballos Aubameyang
Lacazette

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Post #510085  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:51 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
I know we still have a day before Spurs but I would be interested to know what others think about players & tactics for the game. Not sure I would play Xhaka( but think Emery will); would select Pépé but bring him on after 60 minutes; Lacazette & Aubameyang to start; I suppose we have no choice but to pick Luiz but I think he is problem. I want us to attacking & only occasionally play it out from the back but I think I will be whistling for that to happen & I expect Spurs to be shutting us down all the time. I am more than a little concerned with this game although Spurs are not playing all that well so we should be okay.


I would pick Luiz, and have him mark Kane. Give him lots of grief, but ask him not to be stupid with his hands around the box. We need the guile of Luiz to counter Kane and or Son.

Unfortunately Xhaka will start, because his size matters. He just needs to be faster with the ball. When will Emery start to get him to release the ball earlier?

Torreira is a starter for me. His tenacity is needed. Guendozi has become less effective in his role. He is becoming an "Elneny", abeit a notch higher.

Be brave and start all of Aubameyang, Lacazette and Pépé. Give Spurs something to worry about from the onset. Emery has to stop doubting his team and his players. Play these 3, and let them give Spurs little time to settle.

Talking of which, please play faster from the back. The slow-mo, many triangle passes at the back, is as irritating as the tippy-tappy from the past era. This facet of Emery's tactics is my current dislike of his style. It is not even effective, so why keep doing the same over and over?

Leno
AMN Sok Luiz Monreal
Torreira Xhaka
Pépé Ceballos Aubameyang
Lacazette

I will be surprised if Emery has the courage to select all 3 up front. I would pick Lacazette with Pépé but I think Emery likes Aubameyang and he is the first on the sheet. I know one thing I still think our defence looks poor.

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Post #510086  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:18 am 
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DHD wrote:
I find the subject immensely depressing and sad.

In my view, the whole Brexit agenda has been foisted upon us by an elite group of very rich and influential toffs, many of whose ancestors came over on the boat with Willie the Conq. This thing has been brewing for years. These are people who don't need Europe - indeed they need for nothing. They have never experienced deprivation in any form and they have no fear whatever of 'consequences'. They thrive on uncertainty; it's an engine of prosperity for those in a position of financial strength who can take advantage of the opportunities a broken economy will offer. All they fear is transparency in the form of what they see as unwarranted governmental intrusion into their financial dealings and holdings, for which the EU has been pressing for some time now.

As TG says, by subtly moving the focus over a number of years onto immigration, foreigners, austerity and what they term as a non-elected legislature - as if they themselves have ever been elected - they have shaped the debate, convincing vast areas of this island nation that the old enemy - Europe - is at the bottom of all our problems. They have fanned the flames to the point where it's now a curious alliance of the wealthy, the elderly, the under-educated and the under-privileged (brutal but in essence, true) who now carry the fight.

Sadly, I don't think this thing can be stopped. More worryingly, I can't see how the UK can be mended.

Apologies if I offend anyone with this view.


Absolutely nail on the head DHD.

Anyone that thinks we are ruled by an unelected EU obviously has no clue about how the UK is ruled either.

The disaster capitalists and foreign govts are taking advantage of the ignorance of a large part of the UK population. They are laughing all the way to their tax havens, whilst also laughing at those who are (mainly in ignorance) voting for policies that effect this.

Its a very sad indictment of our education system.

People don't think or realise this sort of basic stuff:


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Post #510087  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:25 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Come again?
When Parliament asked the people to vote on the issue - and it did - and the people in huge numbers then made known their view - Parliament will lose credibility if it does not implement the vote.


But an almost equal amount of people (of those that voted), voted to remain. They also made their view known.

You make it sound as if it was a landslide, and it wasn't.

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Post #510088  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:29 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Decaf wrote:

Your view that not implementing the referendum shakes democracy to the roots makes no sense to me.

The vote to leave won the day and now you have the crazies , looneys and " the think they know betters " out in force trying to force a reversal

... if they get their way ...... ..... that will galvanise the crazies , looneys and " think they know betters ' from the other side to start rabble rousing .

You can't see that is a danger to democracy ....... ? :icon_scratch:


So you think the stuff about Cambridge Analytica, Putin, Bannon, Banks and suspect donations should be just brushed aside? Really?

"A danger to democracy" - what, like having another vote on the final outcome in case people have actually changed their minds? Like people do every 3-5 years in an election? More voting isn't a danger to democracy is it.

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Post #510089  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 am 
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Good luck Nacho. You were a good professional for us.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49534587
Nacho Monreal: Arsenal defender joins Real Sociedad

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Post #510090  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:53 am 
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My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).

What I have seen over the past few years has brought to stark light the rottenness at the heart of Westminster:
the way our politicians seem to have been bought off (or are being blackmailed);
a PM who is on record as a liar, who has been recorded conspiring to assault a reporter;
cabinet ministers who say one thing today, the opposite tomorrow;
ministers like Patel voting on contracts having given paid advice to the company bidding for the contract;
constant lies not being challenged;
the ability of extremists like Farage to command the media spotlight, thanks to how our press is run; and the role of social media in manipulating public opinion has been frightening.

I have also come to believe that we are in the throes of the selling off of the UK, and that Brexit is simply a means to an end in the hands of those (like Rees Mogg) who in my opinion are conspiring against the UK. This time though, it won't be a possible invasion by tanks and troops that we will have to fight off. We might have have had a chance about that. No, it'll be a takeover by stealth of all our public assets, a process started some years ago but now coming to fruition.

Our NHS (which American health insurance companies are slavering over) will go, public services will be privatised and cut back to nothing, the least able in society will suffer, retirement age pushed ever upwards, and the financial divide between rich and poor will increase exponentially.

As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.

Brexit is nothing at all to do with the EU in reality, its simply a vehicle that has allowed tax dodging parasites to dictate political discourse and policy in this country.

And finally, to those who say it was the will of the people and those who voted remain should just shut up and get on with it:
a) that's not how true democracy works, people are allowed to change their minds (both ways)
b) Farage himself said that if the vote had been 52/48 the other way, he would have carried on campaigning.

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Post #510091  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:58 am 
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john1 wrote:
My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).


As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.



good post john,

I firmly believe the biggest casualty around all of this is yet to come which is the eventual break up of our special union between the countries on our island.

When the Rees Moggs and Johnson said that achieving brexit was important than keeping the United Kingdom together that sends a message to me that fundamentally they only value the opinion of the English people and their own political careers. Just look how they have behaved over Ireland. They are an absolute disgrace and I can understand how working class scots can look at them and feel they have no connection to them.

Thats the problem with Brexit, the damage is never ending. It can go anywhere, absolutely anywhere

That said you sods in Wales can clear off if you think you are leaving!!! Unlike the scots you voted for Brexit too! you can sit with me and enjoy the inevitable misery that follows I'm not doing this on my own :laughing7:


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Post #510092  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
john1 wrote:
My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).


As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.



good post john,

I firmly believe the biggest casualty around all of this is yet to come which is the eventual break up of our special union between the countries on our island.

When the Rees Moggs and Johnson said that achieving brexit was important than keeping the United Kingdom together that sends a message to me that fundamentally they only value the opinion of the English people and their own political careers. Just look how they have behaved over Ireland. They are an absolute disgrace and I can understand how working class scots can look at them and feel they have no connection to them.

Thats the problem with Brexit, the damage is never ending. It can go anywhere, absolutely anywhere

That said you sods in Wales can clear off if you think you are leaving!!! Unlike the scots you voted for Brexit too! you can sit with me and enjoy the inevitable misery that follows I'm not doing this on my own :laughing7:


:58big-emoticons:
As a point of info, and maybe of interest, polls have shown that Welsh born people voted approx 58% in favor of staying in the EU. Bear in mind that 20% of Wales’ population was born outside Wales (mainly England), and it is this vote that made Wales vote out.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not advocating a curb on immigrstion into Wales! :icon_rabbit: )

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Post #510093  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:36 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Decaf wrote:

Your view that not implementing the referendum shakes democracy to the roots makes no sense to me.

The vote to leave won the day and now you have the crazies , looneys and " the think they know betters " out in force trying to force a reversal

... if they get their way ...... ..... that will galvanise the crazies , looneys and " think they know betters ' from the other side to start rabble rousing .

You can't see that is a danger to democracy ....... ? :icon_scratch:

When you have Boris Johnson as PM who needs 'crazies , looneys and " think they know betters "' ... They are as redundant and the spaces you like to put before your commas.

The entire Brexit fiasco is the epitome of rabble rousing.

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Post #510094  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:41 am 
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john1 wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

good post john,

I firmly believe the biggest casualty around all of this is yet to come which is the eventual break up of our special union between the countries on our island.

When the Rees Moggs and Johnson said that achieving brexit was important than keeping the United Kingdom together that sends a message to me that fundamentally they only value the opinion of the English people and their own political careers. Just look how they have behaved over Ireland. They are an absolute disgrace and I can understand how working class scots can look at them and feel they have no connection to them.

Thats the problem with Brexit, the damage is never ending. It can go anywhere, absolutely anywhere

That said you sods in Wales can clear off if you think you are leaving!!! Unlike the scots you voted for Brexit too! you can sit with me and enjoy the inevitable misery that follows I'm not doing this on my own :laughing7:


:58big-emoticons:
As a point of info, and maybe of interest, polls have shown that Welsh born people voted approx 58% in favor of staying in the EU. Bear in mind that 20% of Wales’ population was born outside Wales (mainly England), and it is this vote that made Wales vote out



Really that’s quite interesting I never knew that.

You should never have allowed so many English in :laughing7: your infested, at breaking point, there must be no go areas around city centres full of English people milling around doing nothing :laughing7: there must be “no go” zones where it’s unsafe for locals to go because it’s full of English who haven’t integrated. I’m assuming all the English are taking the lower paid jobs too :laughing7:


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Post #510095  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:42 am 
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john1 wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
The vote to leave won the day and now you have the crazies , looneys and " the think they know betters " out in force trying to force a reversal

... if they get their way ...... ..... that will galvanise the crazies , looneys and " think they know betters ' from the other side to start rabble rousing .

You can't see that is a danger to democracy ....... ? :icon_scratch:


So you think the stuff about Cambridge Analytica, Putin, Bannon, Banks and suspect donations should be just brushed aside? Really?

"A danger to democracy" - what, like having another vote on the final outcome in case people have actually changed their minds? Like people do every 3-5 years in an election? More voting isn't a danger to democracy is it.

You aren't getting it, Top Gun. Democracy is a danger to democracy. We need autocrats like Putin, Trump, Bolsanaro, Orban ... and that spectacular pinnacle of statesmanship, Boris, to save it.

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Post #510096  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:47 am 
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Pompey Gooner wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Tell me exactly how being part of the EU has benefited ordinary people of the UK in terms of social housing, education, health and social equality, all of which have deteriorated in our years of EU membership.


Ok, youre so wrong on this it hurts. My son is doing a PHD at Bath University which is entirely funded by an EU grant, as are the vast majority of higher diplomas in this country. He is also 40k in debt because our own government, the ones we want to hand power back to, have made sure that further education now costs an absolute fortune. His degree cost 40k because thats the UK education system, his PHD has cost nothing because of the EU. In Germany his degree would have cost nothing because the German government recognise the importance of higher education for their population and the positive effect it will have on their future, and they have the ability to make independent decisions on who should pay for it. They are not bound by EU directives on this. My son is also not doing a PHD because his mum and dad are rich, powerful, or entitled. Hes clever.

Recently my wifes health deteriorated due to her ulcerative colitis. Last year she had the majority of her large intestine, colon, and rectum removed and just about fought off septicaemia and now lives with a stoma bag. Her operation was performed by a marvellous Italian surgeon on the NHS, and 90% of the nurses who cared for her during her 3 weeks in hospital were EU immigrants. Without the EU and the free movement of trade and people our NHS wouldnt exist and my wife might well be dead.

So both of my direct family members have had their lives positively enhanced by the EU.

Great post. I hope your wife is recovering well, Pompey.

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Post #510097  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:51 am 
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john1 wrote:
My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).

What I have seen over the past few years has brought to stark light the rottenness at the heart of Westminster:
the way our politicians seem to have been bought off (or are being blackmailed);
a PM who is on record as a liar, who has been recorded conspiring to assault a reporter;
cabinet ministers who say one thing today, the opposite tomorrow;
ministers like Patel voting on contracts having given paid advice to the company bidding for the contract;
constant lies not being challenged;
the ability of extremists like Farage to command the media spotlight, thanks to how our press is run; and the role of social media in manipulating public opinion has been frightening.

I have also come to believe that we are in the throes of the selling off of the UK, and that Brexit is simply a means to an end in the hands of those (like Rees Mogg) who in my opinion are conspiring against the UK. This time though, it won't be a possible invasion by tanks and troops that we will have to fight off. We might have have had a chance about that. No, it'll be a takeover by stealth of all our public assets, a process started some years ago but now coming to fruition.

Our NHS (which American health insurance companies are slavering over) will go, public services will be privatised and cut back to nothing, the least able in society will suffer, retirement age pushed ever upwards, and the financial divide between rich and poor will increase exponentially.

As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.

Brexit is nothing at all to do with the EU in reality, its simply a vehicle that has allowed tax dodging parasites to dictate political discourse and policy in this country.

And finally, to those who say it was the will of the people and those who voted remain should just shut up and get on with it:
a) that's not how true democracy works, people are allowed to change their minds (both ways)
b) Farage himself said that if the vote had been 52/48 the other way, he would have carried on campaigning.

Spot on. :53big-emoticons:

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Post #510098  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:51 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Good luck Nacho. You were a good professional for us.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49534587
Nacho Monreal: Arsenal defender joins Real Sociedad

I just can’t understand this at all. I just cannot see any sense in further depleting our already light on defence. Tierney will, according to the Arsenal site commence full training at the end of September. So I suppose Sead K will be drafted to play Monreals position. We should know tomorrow I suppose.

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Post #510099  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:56 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Good luck Nacho. You were a good professional for us.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49534587
Nacho Monreal: Arsenal defender joins Real Sociedad

I just can’t understand this at all. I just cannot see any sense in further depleting our already light on defence. Tierney will, according to the Arsenal site commence full training at the end of September. So I suppose Sead K will be drafted to play Monreals position. We should know tomorrow I suppose.

Agreed. Monreal is a real gem.

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Post #510100  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:01 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Good luck Nacho. You were a good professional for us.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49534587
Nacho Monreal: Arsenal defender joins Real Sociedad

I just can’t understand this at all. I just cannot see any sense in further depleting our already light on defence. Tierney will, according to the Arsenal site commence full training at the end of September. So I suppose Sead K will be drafted to play Monreals position. We should know tomorrow I suppose.


He’s going back to 3 centrals isn’t he.

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Post #510101  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:38 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
I just can’t understand this at all. I just cannot see any sense in further depleting our already light on defence. Tierney will, according to the Arsenal site commence full training at the end of September. So I suppose Sead K will be drafted to play Monreals position. We should know tomorrow I suppose.


He’s going back to 3 centrals isn’t he.

Good thought process. I had dismissed it but you are probably correct. I will wait and see before I lose my *%^@ over this.

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Post #510102  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
john1 wrote:
He’s going back to 3 centrals isn’t he.

Good thought process. I had dismissed it but you are probably correct. I will wait and see before I lose my *%^@ over this.

The thing is we’re not inundated with central defenders either. If Mustafi won’t be considered, apart from Luiz, Sokratis and Holding (has he played any game since he’s been training) is there anyone else? If not, it’s surely a big risk to start Holding. Mavropanos looked really poor in his few games last season. Medley looked good but I can’t see him starting a Premier League North London derby already. Who else is there? Have I forgotten somebody?

My own guess is four at the back. AMN at right back and Kolasinac the left back, with Luiz and Sokratis in the centre. Holding on the bench. I could well be wrong but that’s how I see it.


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Post #510103  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:12 pm 
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john1 wrote:

So you think the stuff about Cambridge Analytica, Putin, Bannon, Banks and suspect donations should be just brushed aside? Really?

- what, like having another vote on the final outcome in case people have actually changed their minds.

:laughing7: so Putin influenced Brexit as well as getting Trump elected ... busy man

.... and have another referendum because some may have changed their minds ...... seriously .


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Post #510104  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:19 pm 
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All the best Monreal

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Post #510105  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:21 pm 
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john1 wrote:
My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).

What I have seen over the past few years has brought to stark light the rottenness at the heart of Westminster:
the way our politicians seem to have been bought off (or are being blackmailed);
a PM who is on record as a liar, who has been recorded conspiring to assault a reporter;
cabinet ministers who say one thing today, the opposite tomorrow;
ministers like Patel voting on contracts having given paid advice to the company bidding for the contract;
constant lies not being challenged;
the ability of extremists like Farage to command the media spotlight, thanks to how our press is run; and the role of social media in manipulating public opinion has been frightening.

I have also come to believe that we are in the throes of the selling off of the UK, and that Brexit is simply a means to an end in the hands of those (like Rees Mogg) who in my opinion are conspiring against the UK. This time though, it won't be a possible invasion by tanks and troops that we will have to fight off. We might have have had a chance about that. No, it'll be a takeover by stealth of all our public assets, a process started some years ago but now coming to fruition.

Our NHS (which American health insurance companies are slavering over) will go, public services will be privatised and cut back to nothing, the least able in society will suffer, retirement age pushed ever upwards, and the financial divide between rich and poor will increase exponentially.

As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.

Brexit is nothing at all to do with the EU in reality, its simply a vehicle that has allowed tax dodging parasites to dictate political discourse and policy in this country.

And finally, to those who say it was the will of the people and those who voted remain should just shut up and get on with it:
a) that's not how true democracy works, people are allowed to change their minds (both ways)
b) Farage himself said that if the vote had been 52/48 the other way, he would have carried on campaigning.

Good post ...you seem to know what you are talking about ...but how many referendums do think you should have before something is done ?


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Post #510106  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:24 pm 
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United drop 2 points

Top4 is definitely on this year.

Please stop moaning and get behind the team. A point tomorrow would be a good result.


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Post #510107  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:27 pm 
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MU drew Ston, despite going 1-0 ahead, and playing more than 20 minutes against 10 men. Sink deeper they go :53big-emoticons:

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Post #510108  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:48 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
I just can’t understand this at all. I just cannot see any sense in further depleting our already light on defence. Tierney will, according to the Arsenal site commence full training at the end of September. So I suppose Sead K will be drafted to play Monreals position. We should know tomorrow I suppose.


He’s going back to 3 centrals isn’t he.

We have three left backs, so we are selling one, I don't see why it has to be more to it than that. Monreal probably wanted to go, and we let him leave because he's been a good servant to the club. Tierney is clearly thought of as the guy going forward and until then we have Kolasinac.


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Post #510109  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:53 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
john1 wrote:
My final contribution on the EU debate for today at least.

Up until a few years ago, I would have been very indifferent to the thought of, or desire for, Welsh independence. I have been overall a relatively happy member of the status quo regarding the UK, albeit unhappy with the actions of some governments (Poll tax, Iraq, bedroom tax etc).

What I have seen over the past few years has brought to stark light the rottenness at the heart of Westminster:
the way our politicians seem to have been bought off (or are being blackmailed);
a PM who is on record as a liar, who has been recorded conspiring to assault a reporter;
cabinet ministers who say one thing today, the opposite tomorrow;
ministers like Patel voting on contracts having given paid advice to the company bidding for the contract;
constant lies not being challenged;
the ability of extremists like Farage to command the media spotlight, thanks to how our press is run; and the role of social media in manipulating public opinion has been frightening.

I have also come to believe that we are in the throes of the selling off of the UK, and that Brexit is simply a means to an end in the hands of those (like Rees Mogg) who in my opinion are conspiring against the UK. This time though, it won't be a possible invasion by tanks and troops that we will have to fight off. We might have have had a chance about that. No, it'll be a takeover by stealth of all our public assets, a process started some years ago but now coming to fruition.

Our NHS (which American health insurance companies are slavering over) will go, public services will be privatised and cut back to nothing, the least able in society will suffer, retirement age pushed ever upwards, and the financial divide between rich and poor will increase exponentially.

As Top Gun has mentioned, there are many people in Scotland now questioning their position viz a viz the UK, and Scottish independence is a real possibility. Wales doesn't get the same publicity as Scotland (for Wales, see England), but I can tell you that I am not alone in now considering Welsh independence as a preferable alternative to living in what the UK will become. People who 10 years ago would have laughed at the idea, are now beginning to wonder.

Brexit is nothing at all to do with the EU in reality, its simply a vehicle that has allowed tax dodging parasites to dictate political discourse and policy in this country.

And finally, to those who say it was the will of the people and those who voted remain should just shut up and get on with it:
a) that's not how true democracy works, people are allowed to change their minds (both ways)
b) Farage himself said that if the vote had been 52/48 the other way, he would have carried on campaigning.

Good post ...you seem to know what you are talking about ...but how many referendums do think you should have before something is done ?

But you don't have a referendum and then just do it. The referendum indicated national approval for the idea of brexit. Then the government in power had to work out, and get approval for, the details of the deal. This it failed to do.

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Post #510110  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:56 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
United drop 2 points

Top4 is definitely on this year.

Please stop moaning and get behind the team. A point tomorrow would be a good result.

Discussing thing critically (moaning as you put it) here and getting behind the team are not mutually exclusive activities.

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Post #510111  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:04 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
john1 wrote:

He’s going back to 3 centrals isn’t he.

We have three left backs, so we are selling one, I don't see why it has to be more to it than that. Monreal probably wanted to go, and we let him leave because he's been a good servant to the club. Tierney is clearly thought of as the guy going forward and until then we have Kolasinac.


If we waited to sell Monreal in january it would have cost the club 1.1million in wages. We only play Watford and villa in September and if you can’t trust Kolasinac againest those sides he shouldn’t be at the club.

Just seems to make sense, obviously if we lose tomorrow the bed Wetters will lose the plot.


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Post #510112  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Chelsea drop 2 points at home.

#Emeryout


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Post #510113  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Good post ...you seem to know what you are talking about ...but how many referendums do think you should have before something is done ?

But you don't have a referendum and then just do it. The referendum indicated national approval for the idea of brexit. Then the government in power had to work out, and get approval for, the details of the deal. This it failed to do.


How was it supposed to succeed when 60% of MPs who promised to see Brexit through did everything in their power to stop it or hinder it?

From the moment May took over the negotiations from David Davies the whole venture was doomed. If she had left well alone we would have done a good deal and we would have got a good result . As it was the remoaners made it impossible and cost the country billions in wasted efforts to cover their arses.


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Post #510114  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:19 pm 
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Sadly Liverpool are 0-2 up already. So it looks like I’ll have to write this off as another two easy points for them. So after the satisfaction of Chelsea and Manchester United dropping points, sod it!


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Post #510115  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Sadly Liverpool are 0-2 up already. So it looks like I’ll have to write this off as another two easy points for them. So after the satisfaction of Chelsea and Manchester United dropping points, sod it!

They and City might as well be in a different league. Liverpool didn't have it all their own way, mind.

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Post #510116  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:28 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Decaf wrote:
But you don't have a referendum and then just do it. The referendum indicated national approval for the idea of brexit. Then the government in power had to work out, and get approval for, the details of the deal. This it failed to do.


How was it supposed to succeed when 60% of MPs who promised to see Brexit through did everything in their power to stop it or hinder it?

From the moment May took over the negotiations from David Davies the whole venture was doomed.



:laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7: :15laughter:



David Davis, Britain’s chief Brexit negotiator, has held only four hours of talks with his Brussels opposite number this year, according to government records.

The lack of political engagement was cited by EU leaders on Friday as they rebuked the UK for slow progress on Brexit. In a joint summit statement, they insisted on “the need for intensified efforts” and warned that there had been “no substantial” advances on the vexed issue of the Irish border.



https://www.ft.com/content/9e3aacf0-7b9 ... daf11b720d


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Post #510117  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:39 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Decaf wrote:
But you don't have a referendum and then just do it. The referendum indicated national approval for the idea of brexit. Then the government in power had to work out, and get approval for, the details of the deal. This it failed to do.


How was it supposed to succeed when 60% of MPs who promised to see Brexit through did everything in their power to stop it or hinder it?

From the moment May took over the negotiations from David Davies the whole venture was doomed. If she had left well alone we would have done a good deal and we would have got a good result . As it was the remoaners made it impossible and cost the country billions in wasted efforts to cover their arses.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Whose fault was it? The 'remoaners' (as your last point suggests) or the Brexiteers (the 60% you mention) ...who were far too busy stabbing each other in the back to organise a pissup in a brewery, let alone something as complicated as Brexit?

Either way, is what you are describing anything other than a giant cock up by the conservative party?

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Post #510118  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 5:48 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

How was it supposed to succeed when 60% of MPs who promised to see Brexit through did everything in their power to stop it or hinder it?

From the moment May took over the negotiations from David Davies the whole venture was doomed. If she had left well alone we would have done a good deal and we would have got a good result . As it was the remoaners made it impossible and cost the country billions in wasted efforts to cover their arses.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Whose fault was it? The 'remoaners' (as your last point suggests) or the Brexiteers (the 60% you mention) ...who were far too busy stabbing each other in the back to organise a pissup in a brewery, let alone something as complicated as Brexit?

Either way, is what you are describing anything other than a giant cock up by the conservative party?


All valid points

Also it’s worth pointing out that May DID actually deliver a withdrawal agreement that provided Brexit but it was deemed not brexity enough by the loonie far right types in her own party.


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Post #510119  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:08 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Sadly Liverpool are 0-2 up already. So it looks like I’ll have to write this off as another two easy points for them. So after the satisfaction of Chelsea and Manchester United dropping points, sod it!

City and Liverpool are so far ahead that i’ll Be cheering both of them on when they play spurs, Man U and Chelsea. We are competing with those 3 for top 4 so any points they drop is good even if it is to those two.

The bonus is Chelsea (twice), Man U (at least twice) and spurs (once) have all already dropped points you’d expect them to get. We technically have got the exact amount of points you would expect us to have to get a top 4 place


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Post #510120  Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:11 pm 
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Read that the Elneny loan deal as an €18m option to buy at the end. If that happens then Raul is an absolute genius.

Also saw someone post that from the 18 man squad that won the 2017 fa cup there is only Bellerin, Holding, xhaka, Özil left in the current squad. 14 players gone in 2 and a bit years


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