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Post #501441  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:05 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
omoh,

I looked up Joe Mercer and hadn't realized he was manager when City won the title in the late '60s...As you know he also had a relatively long Arsenal career. I am kinda surprised (and a wee bit ashamed) that I didn't know this.
I wrote this about Joe a while back. "Joe Mercer “The Good”. His fame is justifiably bright in the assembly of great Arsenal men. He was one of our finest wing halves and arguably our greatest captain. There is that sempiternal image of him on the shoulders of his team mates in 1952, FA Cup in hand. There is also the legendary story of his last game for the club against Liverpool in 1954. Getting on for forty he badgered manager Tom Whittaker to be selected to play against his old Liverpool pals. He did so, but unluckily broke his leg in a shocking collision with team mate Joe Wade. Perhaps he could have asked for no better hap in his mishap than to finish at Highbury, for some say the ovation he received that day still echoed faintly when they closed the old ground more than fifty years on.

Joe came from a football family. His father was centre half for Nottingham Forest, and young Joe was greatly influenced by Billy Roberts, cousin of Arsenal legend, Herbie Roberts. At fourteen he played for the village of Elton Green in Cheshire and as a reward got his fares paid and a bag of vegetables every Friday. At seventeen he signed professional with Everton where he stayed for sixteen years. His falling out with the Blues came when he was injured playing for England against Scotland and Everton thought he was shirking. He had to have his cartilage removed at his own expense. He joined Arsenal as a thirty-two year-old in 1946, on the condition that he could live and train in Liverpool, as he wanted to look after his grocery business in Hoylake. When Tom Whittaker described the signing as one of the most important deals he or anybody ever made for Arsenal, he told no lie.

Joe Mercer was a brilliant footballer, a delightful provider of accurate passes and blessed with fantastic energy and a formidable battling spirit. His enthusiasm was a by-word and even when time began to damage him there was still a lot of the sixteen year-old in his veteran performances. Maurice Edelston wrote of him ‘Two things about Mercer were unforgettable: his smile and his legs. The smile was Joe. It was not a handsome-boy smile, or a big-star smile; there was no affectation in it; it was natural, humorous and warm. It twisted his mouth sideways in his lean face, and the creases of it almost closed his blue close-set eyes. As to his legs, he had to listen to jokes about them from the day he first joined Everton as a boy of sixteen. They were shaped like a pair of brackets, the left rather more bent than the right; he walked with a sagging, plodding motion, and they gave slightly outwards at each step, as if they were made of thick wire. Mercer captaining a team under pressure looked like a farmer, with threshing in full swing and rain in the air – striding about with activity all around him, directing, encouraging, jumping in to help or take over, always near the centre of the work. There was no doubt who was the boss.’ If it happened in football, Joe had seen it. An old crooked tree that gave fruit."

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Post #501442  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:17 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
With most clubs, there has always been at least some semblance of a relationship between football-related income and expenditure. But when City were taken over in 2008, with the stroke of a pen, rather than staring relegation in the face they were buying a bemused-looking Robinho - and, shortly afterwards, pretty much everyone else: for the next decade. (The Chelsea story is obviously similar.) I think that's a huge difference to what has occurred at United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. Beyond the pale!
Chelsea were the same, from edge of oblivion to monster within a few months and then England's most successful club of the last 15 years. Yes, agreed City are now on another level of the same ladder all the big clubs climb up, but may not always be there. Who knows the truth about these things, but if United are paying Sanchez £560k a week, then that is not traditional in my book! Also the question of what is football-related expenditure has been blurred to a fog. The days when the gate receipt was paramount have gone, at least for the Premiership teams. At Dartford a drop of 100 in attendance really matters!!

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Post #501443  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:53 am 
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OMOH, thanks for your post about Joe Mercer. He was well before my time as a player, but my Dad spoke of him as highly of him as you do. Noticed you mentioned Herbie Roberts. My Dad rated him very highly too. Always thought it unfair he was remembered less well than the likes of Eddie Hapgood, Clff Bastin and Alex James.


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Post #501444  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:05 am 
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Rumors are Elneny may be off to Galatasaray. Thus freeing up some more space.

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Post #501445  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:20 am 
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Great stuff, omoh. I went to youtube and usually, I'm happy to see the people and teams you all talk about and i was hoping to see highlights of his playing days but this was all I could find about Mercer. At least I have a face with the name.

I have a question. His record at City over a short span of time was nothing short of amazing. I can understand not having him as manager when he left City because we had the legendary Mee. But what about in the mid 70s when there was a vacancy? Did we try to get him? If not, why do you suppose we didn't given he was a former player who had done a great job elsewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxnAJR0r-E&t=145s

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Post #501446  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:36 am 
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Bernard wrote:
OMOH, thanks for your post about Joe Mercer. He was well before my time as a player, but my Dad spoke of him as highly of him as you do. Noticed you mentioned Herbie Roberts. My Dad rated him very highly too. Always thought it unfair he was remembered less well than the likes of Eddie Hapgood, Clff Bastin and Alex James.
A pleasure to post it. Yes, it is strange how the contributions of certain players in successful sides can be relatively undervalued. I have mentioned often my admiration for Peter Simpson who did so much in that Bertie Mee team, yet is rarely put on the pedestal. Maybe Roberts was like him in that respect?

On Joe Mercer, it intrigues me that he never managed Arsenal. In the summer of 1958 when Jack Crayston called it a day Mercer was the press favourite to take over at Highbury. He was then in charge of Sheffield United in the Second Division. It was reported that Mercer had been in contact with Arsenal, but they could not consider his application as he was not free to take the job. Ironically just a few months later he was able to take over at Aston Villa where he had some success, and then on to City, where he had even more. During a period when Arsenal fell behind he surely would have been a good fit?

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Post #501447  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:48 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Great stuff, omoh. I went to youtube and usually, I'm happy to see the people and teams you all talk about and i was hoping to see highlights of his playing days but this was all I could find about Mercer. At least I have a face with the name.

I have a question. His record at City over a short span of time was nothing short of amazing. I can understand not having him as manager when he left City because we had the legendary Mee. But what about in the mid 70s when there was a vacancy? Did we try to get him? If not, why do you suppose we didn't given he was a former player who had done a great job elsewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxnAJR0r-E&t=145s
Hi AG - thanks for that - some nice photos in that clip, especially the happy looks after winning the FA Cup. On your question, I am not sure if he was ever considered by Arsenal after Bertie Mee departed, but by then (1976) he was in his early 60s, so maybe the club wanted a younger man?

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Post #501448  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:53 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Apparently Xhaka is in doubt for Burnley game.

Yesss

We’re back to having 11 men on the pitch.

I am not so sure we don't need a player who dishes a bit of dirt for Burnley.

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Post #501449  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:08 pm 
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Saliba has undergone an operation on an abductor muscle injury - out for 6 weeks. Welcome to Arsenal!


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Post #501450  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Yesss

We’re back to having 11 men on the pitch.

I am not so sure we don't need a player who dishes a bit of dirt for Burnley.

Lucas Torreira

Plus if we unleash Aubameyang,Lacazette and Pépé they will be pre occupied


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Post #501451  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:57 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
omoh,

I looked up Joe Mercer and hadn't realized he was manager when City won the title in the late '60s...As you know he also had a relatively long Arsenal career. I am kinda surprised (and a wee bit ashamed) that I didn't know this.
I wrote this about Joe a while back. "Joe Mercer “The Good”. His fame is justifiably bright in the assembly of great Arsenal men. He was one of our finest wing halves and arguably our greatest captain. There is that sempiternal image of him on the shoulders of his team mates in 1952, FA Cup in hand. There is also the legendary story of his last game for the club against Liverpool in 1954. Getting on for forty he badgered manager Tom Whittaker to be selected to play against his old Liverpool pals. He did so, but unluckily broke his leg in a shocking collision with team mate Joe Wade. Perhaps he could have asked for no better hap in his mishap than to finish at Highbury, for some say the ovation he received that day still echoed faintly when they closed the old ground more than fifty years on.

Joe came from a football family. His father was centre half for Nottingham Forest, and young Joe was greatly influenced by Billy Roberts, cousin of Arsenal legend, Herbie Roberts. At fourteen he played for the village of Elton Green in Cheshire and as a reward got his fares paid and a bag of vegetables every Friday. At seventeen he signed professional with Everton where he stayed for sixteen years. His falling out with the Blues came when he was injured playing for England against Scotland and Everton thought he was shirking. He had to have his cartilage removed at his own expense. He joined Arsenal as a thirty-two year-old in 1946, on the condition that he could live and train in Liverpool, as he wanted to look after his grocery business in Hoylake. When Tom Whittaker described the signing as one of the most important deals he or anybody ever made for Arsenal, he told no lie.

Joe Mercer was a brilliant footballer, a delightful provider of accurate passes and blessed with fantastic energy and a formidable battling spirit. His enthusiasm was a by-word and even when time began to damage him there was still a lot of the sixteen year-old in his veteran performances. Maurice Edelston wrote of him ‘Two things about Mercer were unforgettable: his smile and his legs. The smile was Joe. It was not a handsome-boy smile, or a big-star smile; there was no affectation in it; it was natural, humorous and warm. It twisted his mouth sideways in his lean face, and the creases of it almost closed his blue close-set eyes. As to his legs, he had to listen to jokes about them from the day he first joined Everton as a boy of sixteen. They were shaped like a pair of brackets, the left rather more bent than the right; he walked with a sagging, plodding motion, and they gave slightly outwards at each step, as if they were made of thick wire. Mercer captaining a team under pressure looked like a farmer, with threshing in full swing and rain in the air – striding about with activity all around him, directing, encouraging, jumping in to help or take over, always near the centre of the work. There was no doubt who was the boss.’ If it happened in football, Joe had seen it. An old crooked tree that gave fruit."



Sorry OMOH, but the picture with the FA Cup will have been 1950. 2-0 v Liverpool. Reg Lewis got both goals.

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Post #501452  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Wirral Gooner wrote:
Sorry OMOH, but the picture with the FA Cup will have been 1950. 2-0 v Liverpool. Reg Lewis got both goals.
Yes, of course - 1952 was less enjoyable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIBD2eLPr4

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Post #501453  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:53 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Wirral Gooner wrote:
Sorry OMOH, but the picture with the FA Cup will have been 1950. 2-0 v Liverpool. Reg Lewis got both goals.
Yes, of course - 1952 was less enjoyable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIBD2eLPr4


I deliberately ignored discussing 1952. Wally Barnes injury and all.

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Post #501454  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Loved the video even though we lost. Found myself winning our side to win despite knowing the result beforehand.

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Post #501455  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:37 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Watching City and Liverpool battle it out may be interesting. City have only failed to to be out of the top 3 once since 2011. Its the kind of season by season form Man Utd used to have in the 90s and first few years of the 00s.
If City do win it this season and next, the EPL will start to look like a joke corrupted by money. My other fear is our unbeaten record which is very hard to do with the league as it is, but not impossible with what City have.
Liverpool have one of their best sides since some time but when you can't win the PL with 97 points, while losing only once and your contender has all the money in the world, you can only stay competitive to challenge for the title for so long.

We may start seeing Tottenham fall off as well (a welcomed thing). They have the addition of the stadium to contend with, their biggest stars looking at possibly leaving.

You seem to have forgotten that Liverpool won the CL. I think that is a fairly important point to factor into your otherwise sparkling, concise, and watertight analysis.

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Post #501456  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:42 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
It's kinda sad to say you may not be around to see it omoh. The Boston Red Sox went from 1918 to 2004 between world series. There was a documentary about it. I hate the "BoSox" but was moved by people who visited fathers and grandfathers who lived their lives seeing the team reach finals and never win. I certainly hope to see us win in my lifetime. The CL as the saying goes 'anything can happen in a cup competition'. 2004 was our gild edged chance I think. Had we just had a better 2nd half against Chelsea, the road to the final was not too difficult considering the competition. All the top teams were out of it.

Anyway, thinking about it more, the 'invincible' season was an entire season with drama each week. And I feel personally connected seeing one of the matches. Still have the program and ticket stub. It's with my trust documents, insurance forms, and other important things.

It will break my heart if City does it, especially in their present state of being economically on steroids.

I think putting so much on 'winning the league' is wrong. One should be able to enjoy supporting a club even if that club isn't likely to ever win it. Otherwise, it's like thinking the whole point of romance is ejaculation. Might as well just have w&*k or support City ... much the same thing actually.

Still, it must be pretty tough to be a spurs fan.

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Post #501457  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:52 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
I'm all in favour of a bit of nostalgia about the Francis Lee, Malcolm Allison, Rodney Marsh era Manchester City. But to suggest that there's any link at all between that club and the Frankenstein's monster that currently parades under the same name is beyond the pale. That's right, beyond the pale.

Quite right, Mcqilkie. One needs to put the past in perspective. It is absurd to overlook City's present plastic horribleness because of grudges against the likes of Liverpool ... who were frankly legitimately good unlike fake City.

What matters is the present... as stated rather well by this often nauseating but also often very funny fellow ...https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2212162822229340

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Post #501458  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:23 pm 
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Wonder if some cartoonist will do one showing Özil coming on as a sub with a guard dog on a lead with him, saying this is carrying out security a bit far.


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Post #501459  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Draytonkid wrote:
Wonder if some cartoonist will do one showing Özil coming on as a sub with a guard dog on a lead with him, saying this is carrying out security a bit far.
If Peter Storey was still playing, as a teamate, Özil would need no security.

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Post #501460  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:10 pm 
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Wirral Gooner wrote:
I deliberately ignored discussing 1952. Wally Barnes injury and all.
My take on Barnes.
"One of Arsenal’s finest full backs, who in 1943 did not cost a penny signing-on fee. He was known for his anticipation and interceptions, his unflappability and physical power. In his pomp he was as strong and dynamic as any defender might wish to be. He made the game seem as easy as cakes and cream, and even when his knees turned medieval, he drew on his deep knowledge of positioning to retain his high reputation. According to my dad he ‘used his noddle.’ Walley’s parents were born not far from Arsenal Stadium, but because his soldier father was stationed in Brecon on the day of his birth, Walley had a different nationality than the rest of his family. He had the “e” in his Christian name due to a mistake on his birth certificate. Aged four he and rest of his family left Brecon to join his father’s regimental posting in Lebong India. Returning to England in 1928 he didn’t actually go back to Wales until he was twenty-four, and that was to play for Wales against England. Yet he became a renowned captain of his country. Walley only ever saw one top level football match before turning professional himself - Portsmouth v Arsenal in the Fifth Round of the FA Cup - and ironically he was to play for both clubs. Walley was a footballer who glittered when he walked out to play."

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Post #501461  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:20 pm 
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The winger on the left for Newcastle was very good. Forgot his name and I will sound like I'm over stating his skill but he seems he could fit into a side today.

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Post #501462  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Seems we are on the wrong end at times on "special events". I recall (and I'm too lazy to look it up) that the first non English side to win the FA cup (Cardiff I believe) was at our expense. And we are the losing side on the first back to back FA cup winners.

First team to lose a 4-0 lead in a game against said Toon side I think weren't we? I'm open to being corrected. Can't recall if it was a league or cup match.

And didn't Shearer score a hat trick in his debut as a starter in the first team against us? I think he played for Soton at the time but still a Geordie.

What other events were on the wrong side of?

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Post #501463  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Seems we are on the wrong end at times on "special events". I recall (and I'm too lazy to look it up) that the first non English side to win the FA cup (Cardiff I believe) was at our expense. And we are the losing side on the first back to back FA cup winners.

First team to lose a 4-0 lead in a game against said Toon side I think weren't we? I'm open to being corrected. Can't recall if it was a league or cup match.

And didn't Shearer score a hat trick in his debut as a starter in the first team against us? I think he played for Soton at the time but still a Geordie.

What other events were on the wrong side of?

The first team ever to have an idiot American post over 1 million times on a football forum.


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Post #501464  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:00 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Wirral Gooner wrote:
I deliberately ignored discussing 1952. Wally Barnes injury and all.
My take on Barnes.
"One of Arsenal’s finest full backs, who in 1943 did not cost a penny signing-on fee. He was known for his anticipation and interceptions, his unflappability and physical power. In his pomp he was as strong and dynamic as any defender might wish to be. He made the game seem as easy as cakes and cream, and even when his knees turned medieval, he drew on his deep knowledge of positioning to retain his high reputation. According to my dad he ‘used his noddle.’ Walley’s parents were born not far from Arsenal Stadium, but because his soldier father was stationed in Brecon on the day of his birth, Walley had a different nationality than the rest of his family. He had the “e” in his Christian name due to a mistake on his birth certificate. Aged four he and rest of his family left Brecon to join his father’s regimental posting in Lebong India. Returning to England in 1928 he didn’t actually go back to Wales until he was twenty-four, and that was to play for Wales against England. Yet he became a renowned captain of his country. Walley only ever saw one top level football match before turning professional himself - Portsmouth v Arsenal in the Fifth Round of the FA Cup - and ironically he was to play for both clubs. Walley was a footballer who glittered when he walked out to play."

My only real memories of him were on Match of the Day and wearing (what seemed to me at the time) a funny hat.

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Post #501465  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:07 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
I'm all in favour of a bit of nostalgia about the Francis Lee, Malcolm Allison, Rodney Marsh era Manchester City. But to suggest that there's any link at all between that club and the Frankenstein's monster that currently parades under the same name is beyond the pale. That's right, beyond the pale.

Quite right, Mcqilkie. One needs to put the past in perspective. It is absurd to overlook City's present plastic horribleness because of grudges against the likes of Liverpool ... who were frankly legitimately good unlike fake City.

What matters is the present... as stated rather well by this often nauseating but also often very funny fellow ...https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2212162822229340

Good on you for being a person who does not hold a grudge and wants to live in the present, but I will hold my grudges and dislikes until it’s all over. F@@k Liverpool, Utd, Spurs and I wish them an unsuccessful season.

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Post #501466  Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:48 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Good on you for being a person who does not hold a grudge and wants to live in the present, but I will hold my grudges and dislikes until it’s all over. F@@k Liverpool, Utd, Spurs and I wish them an unsuccessful season.

I’m with you on this Gaz, although I’d add Chelsea to your list of Manchester United, Tottenham and Liverpool. If City’s new found wealth stops those four teams winning the league, for me that’s a benefit that comes from it because I don’t see Arsenal under Kroenke stopping them. I’m really not going to get stuffy about how City acquired it and whether it’s fair. If it stops those four from winning stuff, good!


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Post #501467  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:26 am 
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We will see Luiz and Pépé today surely.

Wonder what the line up will be


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Post #501468  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:35 am 
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Great pictures of Edu walking to the game in his suit (looking sharp) across ken friar bridge and mixing with the fans. Absolute PR masterclass and riding the crest of the positive feeling after the transfer window


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Post #501469  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:36 am 
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Van Persie just lied on BT sport and said Arsenal never offered him a new deal so that’s why he left. Total bollocks that Arsenal wouldn’t offer a new deal to a player who scored 41 in all competitions.

Of course they didn’t pull him up on it


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Post #501470  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:36 am 
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Cellabos, Luiz and Lacazette all start. Willock and Nelson keep their places


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Post #501471  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:41 am 
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According to Sky the team is:

Team to play Burnley: Leno, Maitland-Niles, Luiz, Sokratis, Monreal, Guendouzi, Nelson, Willock, Ceballos, Lacazette, Aubameyang

Subs: Martinez, Mkhitaryan, Torreira, Pépé, Chambers, Kolasinac, Martinelli

A few surprises for me. This will be a bloody tough game I think. I pwrsonally would have Torreira on the field to start.

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Post #501472  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:10 am 
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When everyone is fit there is some strength in depth, players not in the squad today, Bellerin, Tierney, Özil, mustafi, Holding, Xhaka, Smith-rowe, saka


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Post #501473  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:29 am 
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The commentator said we haven't won our first 2 league matches in 10 years. Amazingly sad stat.

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Post #501474  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:40 am 
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Good seeing Arsenal legend Freddie on the bench with the coaching staff.

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Post #501475  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:43 am 
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Lacazette!!!!! 1-0


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Post #501476  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:45 am 
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:53big-emoticons:


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Post #501477  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:56 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Good on you for being a person who does not hold a grudge and wants to live in the present, but I will hold my grudges and dislikes until it’s all over. F@@k Liverpool, Utd, Spurs and I wish them an unsuccessful season.

I’m with you on this Gaz, although I’d add Chelsea to your list of Manchester United, Tottenham and Liverpool. If City’s new found wealth stops those four teams winning the league, for me that’s a benefit that comes from it because I don’t see Arsenal under Kroenke stopping them. I’m really not going to get stuffy about how City acquired it and whether it’s fair. If it stops those four from winning stuff, good!

So even if the league turns into a procession year after year you won't mind so long as Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and United don't win?

I'd rather see a good scrap between two or more of those, even if Arsenal are out of the mix, thanks.

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Post #501478  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:07 pm 
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Post #501479  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:13 pm 
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According to the commentator Guendouzi hasn't scored for us yet.

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"If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken. Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools..." - Rudyard Kipling


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Post #501480  Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:14 pm 
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1 all ...

Saw that coming ...


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