Of course AG I hope I am wrong and that I do see us win the big-eared jug. I suppose if I see it happen in say 2040, beating Dartford in the Nou Camp on penalties, I'll be alright with that. A 90 year-old with eyesight still intact - that'll do me. Hopefully by then we may have achieved Brexit too, though I doubt it.

On the Invincible season we perhaps only now come to appreciate what we were given by that magnificent team? At the time they were so good it was almost no big surprise they went unbeaten! Yet it was so hard to do as great sides like United, Chelsea and City have discovered since.

The state of football finances today is so ridiculous I can't get too bent out of shape over it anymore. I hope City win the ECL as I have always liked them ever since they were managed by one of our greats, Joe Mercer. Well before you saw the light of day I lived for a while in Manchester (Uuugghh!) and regularly watched Book, Summerbee, Bell, Lee, Oakes etc. What a side.

I’m with you Mr Hoy. City have always been my second English club (although they’re well behind Bayern and Rangers in the context of my footballing bits on the side). So if Bayern have been knocked out, it won’t bother me if City win the Champions League. Mike Doyle is another from that era that I recall. Joe Corrigan and Willie Donachie are others, and Joe Mercer’s assistant was the flamboyantly entertaining Malcolm Allison. They’re actually a bigger club than some give them credit for too. Been told 30+k happened when they were in the old third tier league.

I will always remember the fedora Allison wore at some games. Only from seeing it on Match of the Day or The Big Match whatever we were lucky to see on TV over here. Tony Book - didn't he only make the top grade later in life or something like that.

I like the way that Griezman thinks about the future.

http://www.sportbible.com/football/news ... r-20190814

Yes I think Tony Book was rather ancient. I might go and look his age up. Back in a minute or two. Wikipedia says he was born in September 1934. So he was well into his thirties around the era of the late 1960s.

Is this our only path to glory nowadays, through online football?

Probably

Did not come to Div1 until over 30. Spent most of his times in non league. He had followed Allison around and went on to win the title and FA Cup with City. He was their captain. A real story of never give up your dreams.

So what happened to the VAR system in the penalty shoot out with Chelsea. The goalkeeper foot was not on the line in the pen he saved according to a number of different reports. Also early in the game a Liverpool player clearly had his hand over the shoulder of a Chelsea player pulling him back leading to interference as he run in on goal. Why was that not a penalty?

It will be like the Australian grand final which was won by a Melbourne club, who are one of the darlings of our FA. The goal was clearly offside but it was claimed the VAR system failed at that very moment. Never once was our FA asked to prove that this story was true and I have heard no other story of it failing across the globe.

omoh,

I looked up Joe Mercer and hadn't realized he was manager when City won the title in the late '60s.
Wiki excerpt: he went on to enjoy great success as a manager with Manchester City between 1965 and 1971. In his first season at Maine Road, the club won the 1966 Second Division title to regain top-flight status. Two seasons later Mercer led Manchester City to the 1967–68 First Division championship, and went on to win the 1969 FA Cup, the 1970 League Cup, and the 1970 European Cup Winners' Cup.

Amazing.

I recall this specifically because when I became a fan I would look at the list of league champions and saw that City won right after Man Utd did. (side note, I noticed Tottenham was 3rd when Man Utd won it in '67 )

Manchester must have been on a crazy buzz at that time. I can only imagine.

As you know he also had a relatively long Arsenal career. I am kinda surprised (and a wee bit ashamed) that I didn't know this.

I liked City when they were trying to push above their weight against Man Utd when Goater was there and I recall them beating Man Utd right before they got big money.

I have a soft spot for Palace and Liverpool for personal reasons. A hatred of Everton for personal reasons as well. Hating Man Utd, Chelsea and Tottenham is a given as an Arsenal fan.

PS: on another matter to you or anyone, how massive was Everton winning the title in '85 after 3 straight years of Liverpool winning it?

I'm all in favour of a bit of nostalgia about the Francis Lee, Malcolm Allison, Rodney Marsh era Manchester City. But to suggest that there's any link at all between that club and the Frankenstein's monster that currently parades under the same name is beyond the pale. That's right, beyond the pale.

I just find it impossible to dislike City as much as Manchester United, Tottenham, Chelsea and Liverpool. Moreover, If they played Barcelona or Real Madrid in a Champions League final, I’d want them to win it.

I’m not saying it’s the same club as it was, but I’ve always had a soft spot for them and still do. I don’t suppose Arsenal is the same club under Kroenke as it once was, but that hasn’t stopped me supporting them and never will. I just try and make the best of it. Organisations change, just as people do. There’s no point in not wanting things to change, because it ain’t gonna happen.

I'm a bit like you I prefer them to others you have mentioned. Whilst I tipped Liverpool to win the league I would prefer City win rather than them. Most of their fans (Liverpool) are just too hard to put up with and if they win the league we would never hear the end of it. Plus the media love in makes you want to put your fingers down your throat.

Apparently Xhaka is in doubt for Burnley game.

Yippee

Yesss

We’re back to having 11 men on the pitch.

Here's to City smashing Spurs Saturday.

Yes, but name me a top English club these days that isn't a creation of the good Doctor and his sidekicks the broadcasters and petro-billionaires. They are all, including Arsenal, a pale imitation of clubs they once were, albeit greatly richer and overly-branded. City are just the current monster - a bigger one will come along in time.

With most clubs, there has always been at least some semblance of a relationship between football-related income and expenditure. But when City were taken over in 2008, with the stroke of a pen, rather than staring relegation in the face they were buying a bemused-looking Robinho - and, shortly afterwards, pretty much everyone else: for the next decade. (The Chelsea story is obviously similar.) I think that's a huge difference to what has occurred at United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. Beyond the pale!

I can certainly understand an affinity for City in years past but it the present incarnation symbolizes everything wrong with football and everything that attracted me to this sport and league. I've seen football change over my relatively short time as a fan (comparatively speaking to most of you all).

I can't blame them for turning down the money, but they should have to live with the fact they sold out completely. I have far, far more respect for Man Utd than I do for City and its no secret how much I despise Man Utd.

And you can't get bigger than rich Emirs from the Middle East, unless oil prices fall to a level that makes it difficult to turn a profit.

My sole consolation is seeing the money Roman poured into Chelsea have them in the current malaise they are in. Long may that continue.

In the TV show "Ballers" on HBO, part of the season 4 storyline are the Los Angeles Rams and I heard Kroenke's name mentioned a couple times.

So depressing having him as owner and its looking like him and his son will be owning us for decades.

(thank you David Dein for making him aware of The Arsenal. The board wouldn't have had him as a choice were it not for him.)

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/sh ... g-football

I nice taking apart of lazy punditry - specifically Danny Mills. It always astounds me how these highly paid pundits who's only job is to know more about football and give the TV/radio viewer an insight in to the game often just spout tired old cliches or simply don't even know as much as the average armchair fan.

You would have thought when the likes of Neville and Carragher arrived as pundits and showed what proper analysis and debate was that others may have been embarrassed at their own lack of knowledge - not so it appears.

I've commented on the differences between sports punditry in America and England. In America, each pundit has a producer. They have people that gather facts to support their view, the producer makes sure they have videos of players or action that supports their view.

In fact, its common practice to have a former player who wants to do play by play or whatever, be put in front of a video of a game and see what he says.

I have my doubts if any of this is common from what I've seen. Gary Neville seems to be the best at getting video support and some facts but by and large they just seem to wing it.

Finally, many of them seem like they don't want to ruffle feathers. Not so in the states. I think its one of the few things football shows in England can actually learn from the states. However, I will say Martin Tyler and Alan Parry are a joy to listen to.

I wrote this about Joe a while back. "Joe Mercer “The Good”. His fame is justifiably bright in the assembly of great Arsenal men. He was one of our finest wing halves and arguably our greatest captain. There is that sempiternal image of him on the shoulders of his team mates in 1952, FA Cup in hand. There is also the legendary story of his last game for the club against Liverpool in 1954. Getting on for forty he badgered manager Tom Whittaker to be selected to play against his old Liverpool pals. He did so, but unluckily broke his leg in a shocking collision with team mate Joe Wade. Perhaps he could have asked for no better hap in his mishap than to finish at Highbury, for some say the ovation he received that day still echoed faintly when they closed the old ground more than fifty years on.

Joe came from a football family. His father was centre half for Nottingham Forest, and young Joe was greatly influenced by Billy Roberts, cousin of Arsenal legend, Herbie Roberts. At fourteen he played for the village of Elton Green in Cheshire and as a reward got his fares paid and a bag of vegetables every Friday. At seventeen he signed professional with Everton where he stayed for sixteen years. His falling out with the Blues came when he was injured playing for England against Scotland and Everton thought he was shirking. He had to have his cartilage removed at his own expense. He joined Arsenal as a thirty-two year-old in 1946, on the condition that he could live and train in Liverpool, as he wanted to look after his grocery business in Hoylake. When Tom Whittaker described the signing as one of the most important deals he or anybody ever made for Arsenal, he told no lie.

Joe Mercer was a brilliant footballer, a delightful provider of accurate passes and blessed with fantastic energy and a formidable battling spirit. His enthusiasm was a by-word and even when time began to damage him there was still a lot of the sixteen year-old in his veteran performances. Maurice Edelston wrote of him ‘Two things about Mercer were unforgettable: his smile and his legs. The smile was Joe. It was not a handsome-boy smile, or a big-star smile; there was no affectation in it; it was natural, humorous and warm. It twisted his mouth sideways in his lean face, and the creases of it almost closed his blue close-set eyes. As to his legs, he had to listen to jokes about them from the day he first joined Everton as a boy of sixteen. They were shaped like a pair of brackets, the left rather more bent than the right; he walked with a sagging, plodding motion, and they gave slightly outwards at each step, as if they were made of thick wire. Mercer captaining a team under pressure looked like a farmer, with threshing in full swing and rain in the air – striding about with activity all around him, directing, encouraging, jumping in to help or take over, always near the centre of the work. There was no doubt who was the boss.’ If it happened in football, Joe had seen it. An old crooked tree that gave fruit."

Chelsea were the same, from edge of oblivion to monster within a few months and then England's most successful club of the last 15 years. Yes, agreed City are now on another level of the same ladder all the big clubs climb up, but may not always be there. Who knows the truth about these things, but if United are paying Sanchez £560k a week, then that is not traditional in my book! Also the question of what is football-related expenditure has been blurred to a fog. The days when the gate receipt was paramount have gone, at least for the Premiership teams. At Dartford a drop of 100 in attendance really matters!!

OMOH, thanks for your post about Joe Mercer. He was well before my time as a player, but my Dad spoke of him as highly of him as you do. Noticed you mentioned Herbie Roberts. My Dad rated him very highly too. Always thought it unfair he was remembered less well than the likes of Eddie Hapgood, Clff Bastin and Alex James.

Rumors are Elneny may be off to Galatasaray. Thus freeing up some more space.

Great stuff, omoh. I went to youtube and usually, I'm happy to see the people and teams you all talk about and i was hoping to see highlights of his playing days but this was all I could find about Mercer. At least I have a face with the name.

I have a question. His record at City over a short span of time was nothing short of amazing. I can understand not having him as manager when he left City because we had the legendary Mee. But what about in the mid 70s when there was a vacancy? Did we try to get him? If not, why do you suppose we didn't given he was a former player who had done a great job elsewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxnAJR0r-E&t=145s

A pleasure to post it. Yes, it is strange how the contributions of certain players in successful sides can be relatively undervalued. I have mentioned often my admiration for Peter Simpson who did so much in that Bertie Mee team, yet is rarely put on the pedestal. Maybe Roberts was like him in that respect?

On Joe Mercer, it intrigues me that he never managed Arsenal. In the summer of 1958 when Jack Crayston called it a day Mercer was the press favourite to take over at Highbury. He was then in charge of Sheffield United in the Second Division. It was reported that Mercer had been in contact with Arsenal, but they could not consider his application as he was not free to take the job. Ironically just a few months later he was able to take over at Aston Villa where he had some success, and then on to City, where he had even more. During a period when Arsenal fell behind he surely would have been a good fit?

Hi AG - thanks for that - some nice photos in that clip, especially the happy looks after winning the FA Cup. On your question, I am not sure if he was ever considered by Arsenal after Bertie Mee departed, but by then (1976) he was in his early 60s, so maybe the club wanted a younger man?

I am not so sure we don't need a player who dishes a bit of dirt for Burnley.

Saliba has undergone an operation on an abductor muscle injury - out for 6 weeks. Welcome to Arsenal!

Lucas Torreira

Plus if we unleash Aubameyang,Lacazette and Pépé they will be pre occupied

Sorry OMOH, but the picture with the FA Cup will have been 1950. 2-0 v Liverpool. Reg Lewis got both goals.

Yes, of course - 1952 was less enjoyable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIBD2eLPr4

I deliberately ignored discussing 1952. Wally Barnes injury and all.

Loved the video even though we lost. Found myself winning our side to win despite knowing the result beforehand.

You seem to have forgotten that Liverpool won the CL. I think that is a fairly important point to factor into your otherwise sparkling, concise, and watertight analysis.

I think putting so much on 'winning the league' is wrong. One should be able to enjoy supporting a club even if that club isn't likely to ever win it. Otherwise, it's like thinking the whole point of romance is ejaculation. Might as well just have w&*k or support City ... much the same thing actually.

Still, it must be pretty tough to be a spurs fan.