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Post #500441  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:58 pm 
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https://open.spotify.com/show/26lUz3nA53o3vm3HRiCy56

Arsenal / Man Utd rivalry by fans.

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Post #500442  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:06 pm 
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Struggled in the Bayern game but we managed to beat a strong Bayern team and it could have been 3-1 near the end of the game.

Defended well in the first half few dodgy moments but with a few more players we could do well in the coming season.


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Post #500443  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:41 pm 
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This should cheer us all up.
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Post #500444  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 pm 
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DHD wrote:
This should cheer us all up.
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Long season ahead.


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Post #500445  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence


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Post #500446  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence

Do we?

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Post #500447  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:35 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
Zaha has officially told Palace he wants to leave, not sure if that is the same thing as a proper transfer request....but it must surely only strengthen our position and weaken theirs.
I’d still be against spending any more than £40m plus some deadwood players we can’t shift otherwise.
If we keep going up, say something like £60m you’d have to feel the money would be better spent elsewhere more evenly across the squad. We do afterall have some very exciting young players who play wide.....we don’t have that luxury in defence

Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


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Post #500448  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:14 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.


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Post #500449  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Rich wrote:
Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

I can see Aubameyang going and Zaha coming in.


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Post #500450  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:18 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Ash wrote:

I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

I can see Aubameyang going and Zaha coming in.


I think if you sell high and buy a few players that’s one thing. Swapping Aubameyang for Zaha would be hard to work out if we’d be any better off and exactly how we’d do it :1laughter:

:20hospitals:


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Post #500451  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:44 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Do we?

Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence

Our young wide players may be better than our young defenders, but that doesn't mean they are first team material. Saka and Nelson have barely kicked a ball for the club. It would be great to see some of the young players make it with us, but they really are only squad players at the moment.

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Post #500452  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:03 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
That's the thing though. Mustafi is capable of being an excellent defender for 90 minutes of a game most of the time. The problem is that most matches last 93-97 minutes given injury time in each half, and he is just incapable of concentrating for all 97 minutes on a regular basis. He's in no way crap, but he lacks the mental strength and concentration to succeed at the top level with any regularity. In many ways, Holding is an inferior defender (not as quick or agile, and a less varied skillset), but he is also less prone to spectacular WTF moments that Mustafi specialises in.

Mustafi is 95% an excellent defender, but the other 5% is simply not top flight standard, with perhaps 1% being non-league standard.

I would largely agree with you on Mustafi, although I would make the qualification that there are games when he doesn’t make serious errors. Let me clarify that I’ll be perfectly happy if he does leave this summer, although I’ll be even more happy if Koscielny gets his wish and moves on.


Indeed. Just as there are games where he makes more than 1. When he first joined us he was excellent for the first 3 months, but hasn't found that form since.

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Post #500453  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:06 pm 
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socrates wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Would be better if we had an official option to buy, but it give us a chance to make him love us. We tried to buy him before. Maybe a season long stop gap, but I'd be very happy as there is a clear need for one more body of that type for the season ahead, and if it allows us to spend our bugger all budget on other positions, I'm all for it.


Morning Lom,

I've got mixed feelings over the Cabellos deal, if it happens. On the one hand with no option to buy it feels that we are developing someone else's player. On the other hand, if he has a brilliant season and is instrumental in getting us CL football again then I think its a win-win. Of course no option to buy does not definitely mean we can't buy him at the end of the season but the irony is the better the season he has the less likely we are to be able to afford him or even convince Madrid to sell.


Entirely fair assessment. But, if nothing else, he would give us options where we don't have enough. If he helps us get CL football then he's worth more than the development time we put into him. And maybe he'll fall in love with North London!

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Post #500454  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:10 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
A mate of mine attended a friendly yesterday to watch his team play against a lower league side away in a kind of training type exhibition game. His team plays in the championship. I won’t mention the other team involved for a certain reason but let’s say they would expect attendances of less than 500 and play in the southern league.

Halfway through the second half his son who is in his late teens went to the toilet and was unbeknownst followed by 2 men into the toilet and given a pretty savage beating by the 2 home fans as a third blocked the door. Seeing his son stagger out my friend who is in his 60s confronted them and was attacked and had his head split open.

No reason to mention this apart from saying Football is pretty unique in its ability to attract morons and knuckledraggers and football hooligans and firms are the biggest lying hypocritical scumbags in the world.


Scumbags. But then so many of the No surrender lot tend to have their England flags with the names of piss poor tiny teams on them. I think its easier to hide in plain sight as a fan of a smaller club - much less likely to cause a PR storm and get banned for life.

Hope your friend and his son have a swift recovery and get sympathetic assistance from the police.

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Post #500455  Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Stan,
Thanks for making the time available. Its great of you to take time out of Trumpy's nazi (sorry campaign) rally to find time for the poor people. All good news today. Just to make sure you are under no misapprehension - Bayern are not in the EPL and this was not the start of our season.

And while we normally have a red on our shirt, in this game we were in the yellow shirt - I am sure you knew that. Anyway great to hear from you - say hello to Trumpy.


Forgot that Kroenke likes to spend his cash on funding fascists rather than arsenal

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 91536.html

Are there any more reasons to think of not to like Kroenke. We must be running out eh ?


Super rich men buying tax breaks - nothing ever changes.

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Post #500456  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:52 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Super rich men buying tax breaks - nothing ever changes.

That's why I spend all my money on booze, women, and horses. The rest of it, I just waste.


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Post #500457  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:44 am 
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Ash wrote:
Rich wrote:
Saka, Nelson.....is back Nketiah to do better in a wide right position in the first team than any youth team central defender would do as a CB in the first team. Only
My opinion but the young players we have that everyone is talking about are attacking players.
We don’t have youth team players of their quality in defence. Besides I think it is easier for a young player to make their mark in the first team in wide areas than central defence


I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

True on Zaha. But my point was based on a hypothetical choice between having zaha and spending nothing on defence, or having to entrust a youth team player in defence vs not having zaha, letting Nelson and saka play games on the wing but spending £40m on the defence.
And with our tiny budget it could easily be that choice
If we concede as many as we did last year we won’t get top 4.


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Post #500458  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:58 am 
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This is good if depressing article by Tim Stillman on KSE's ownership and how its allowed Arsenal to drift off into mediocrity.

https://arseblog.com/2019/07/we-care-you-dont/


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Post #500459  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:00 am 
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There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


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Post #500460  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:28 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


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Post #500461  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:46 am 
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Bored wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.

I think you’re both right. Not quite as good as some make him out to be.

Also, he nearly 24 (in September). I tend to see players as promising youngsters before that sort of age.


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Post #500462  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:58 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


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Post #500463  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:44 am 
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Ash wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


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Post #500464  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:53 am 
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I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.

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Post #500465  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:55 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.



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Post #500466  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:56 am 
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https://tbrfootball.com/krystian-bielik ... is-summer/
Krystian Bielik reportedly desperate to be sold by Arsenal this summer

This sub headline and reason seems pure fiction. If its true, its shocking and until I hear otherwise, I have to assume its written for clicks.

The Polish Under-21 international has apparently been told he’ll be sold because he was signed by Arsene Wenger.

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Post #500467  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:58 am 
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Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit

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Post #500468  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:01 am 
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I have very bad memories of Bower. I wouldn't let him have it based on that alone.

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/char ... -of-reach/

Charlton boss admits that Arsenal striker – linked with Valley loan – is out of reach

Charlton boss Lee Bowyer has ruled out a loan move for Eddie Nketiah.

The Arsenal striker had been on their wanted list but Bristol City were understood to be ready to pay a loan fee and the full wages of the Lewisham-born 20-year-old.

Nketiah scored a late winner for the Gunners as they beat Bayern Munich in their Champions Cup opener in Los Angeles this week.

“It is looking difficult,” said Bowyer.

“He is in the first-team and doing well in the first-team. I can’t see them letting him out on loan.”

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Post #500469  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:13 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit


Absolutely why you need a driven owner and a solid board of directors. Execs and directors like Mislintat and Sanelhi are ships that pass in the night, always fall out with the club they work for, Always feel underpaid.

We need a proper owner and my god we need someone like Dein back


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Post #500470  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:16 am 
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Bored wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


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Post #500471  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:41 am 
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socrates wrote:
Ash wrote:

What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


That pretty much sums up how I feel. I can’t believe there isn’t a squad place for him given he’s excelled where he’s been on loan and at u21 and we’re lacking fit and mobile humans at CB.

I fear we won’t get very much for him either, he wants out, we don’t want him and he doesn’t have so much as a minute for the first team.


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Post #500472  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:44 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa


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Post #500473  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:47 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I think the operative word is should. We should have more quality, but we don’t. I agree, fit he starts alongside Sokratis.


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Post #500474  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I also thought he was doing well. The balls to fire up in a cup final and call Costa a "*%^@*** nutter" at the age of 22. While some other candies like Özil flit around and do *%^@ all. I know who Id prefer in my team at work, let alone on a football pitch.


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Post #500475  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:33 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa


I didn't see this message before replying but yes.


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Post #500476  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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So, Martinelli in the bag for £6m.
Tierney £25m
Saliba £25m but back on loan to St Ettiene
Everton £35m or Zaha £??m
Cellabos on loan for a £2-3m loan fee

There is a definite need for a centre back, and really another RB because Bellerin won't be back until late Autumn and can't be expected to come straight back in and perform after that injury and no pre-season. You're looking at needing someone to play right back for the best part of half a season at least. I know we got burnt with Lichstiener but I'd shell out for Dani Alves on a 1 year deal.

Also, drastic need to sell some players. We should be shifting Elneny, Jenkinson, Chambers and it is pointless having 3 x left-backs in the squad if we sign Tierney


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Post #500477  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ash wrote:

I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

True on Zaha. But my point was based on a hypothetical choice between having zaha and spending nothing on defence, or having to entrust a youth team player in defence vs not having zaha, letting Nelson and saka play games on the wing but spending £40m on the defence.
And with our tiny budget it could easily be that choice
If we concede as many as we did last year we won’t get top 4.


Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.


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Post #500478  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:48 pm 
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P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.


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Post #500479  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 pm 
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If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?


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Post #500480  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.

I’m definitely keen to ditch the back 3. I think we lose too much control of midfield and subsequently puts us on the back foot more. We were too often only 2 CM against 3 last year.


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