To me it's not all gloom and doom. Since the 80s when I started watching English football, traditionally there have always been one super dominant team and there's always one worthy challenger. Liverpool in the 80s, MU in the 90s, then Chelsea and now MC. As for us, we somehow managed to average one or two titles a decade. 2010s have not been too kind to us (still 3 FA Cup victories) but Liverpool and Tottenham (Leicester too) have shown it's possible to become genuine contenders balancing the books like we did under Wenger's Highbury years.

I know a lot of us are unhappy with the way the club is run. There is a lot of room for improvement but I think we are getting most things right.
1. A very good youth set up. This should allow us to get one or two players to be part of the first team squad every season - we are doing well in this regard. It should also allow us to sell some of the players for profits to add to the 50m a season transfer budget - we are not quite doing it yet.
2. Giving Emery three years to build his team. I think this is fair. We should see more improvements next season. If we become genuine contenders by his third season, he deserves a new contract. If not, give another manager three seasons to build his team.
3. Transfers and contract negotiations should work more towards our favour now that Law and Gazidis (plus Wenger) have left. Hope we see less of our players leaving for free or low transfer fees, and players holding the club for ransom when it comes to renewing contracts.
4. I like last summer's transfer dealing where Leno, Sokratis, Torreira and Guendouzi came in for modest fees and improve the team. But the previous season's transfer (esp. Lacazette and Aubameyang) proved to be good signings as well this season. Let's see if the club can balance bringing in a marquee signing and augment the squad with Leno-esque signings - established young players who can develop into world class-ish players. Not sure if losing Mislintat will affect us in this area.

Assuming we don't lose players we do not want to (Lacazette and Aubameyang) and we manage to acquire two very good defenders plus a midfielder, I reckon we should be able to build upon this season and get more than 70 points.

Goonie, I've discussed your optimism with you before. If we're relegated next season I'm sure you'd see it as an opportunity to rebuild at a lower level. If we sold all our best players for peanuts I'd expect you to say there might be better youngsters in the youth set-up. Kroenke's ownership? To you, 'not all doom and gloom'. The stadium falling down? To Goonie a chance to build a better one.

Is there anything at all that would make you think 'Arsenal is f*cked? Anything at all?

I'm not even talking about the City issue, by the way. If City dominte and it stops any of Manchester United, Tottenham, Chelsea and Liverpool winning things, I'm comfortable with that.

But Arsenal is not f*cked.

We got 70 points compared to previous 63. And in the EL final. If we continue to improve in that trajectory under Emery we will become title contenders in the next couple of seasons. Just like it took Liverpool a while under Klopp...

As for Kroenke, he is a businessman. I think the self-sustaining model (spending entirely funded from self-generated revenues) makes the most sense for ANY club. We are trying to put in a place a system where the club doesn't have to rely on the genius of one man - we didn't quite get it right with Gazidis and Law but let's give Sannllehi, Edu (has he joined?) and the new head of recruitment a chance to put things right.

Shhh...it's against forum rules to speak complimentary about Fabregas judging by posts since his first 'Brexit'.

I didn't actually say Arsenal was f*cked if you read my post again. My question was whether there was anything at all that would make you think it was? Time and time again (plus a few hundred other 'times'), you have put a positive slant on practically anything bad that's happened. The floor is yours. Is there anything that would make you think that Arsenal was f*cked? Losing the Europa League final wouldn't, as I couldn't even go that far.

So how about going broke? I'm not even sure you wouldn't see the club going out of business as a chance to rebuild a brand new club called 'The Arsenal'.

I agree, kiwi, the infrastructure they have put in place around Manchester suggests they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

It feels like something of a watershed moment in football. If City are found guilty of inflating sponsorship deals and other ways of circumventing the FFP rules (effectively cheating) then they should be stripped of any title and trophies they have won and a marker laid down for what will happen if you cheat. Juve were stripped of a title so why not City.

That said, such is the might of City's legal teams that they could probably make anything look legit with a bit of creative accounting so it will be hard to prove and may not stand up in a court of law, even if it is obvious what is going on. Have the football authorities got the balls or even the financial means to take them on?

Sadly, allowing foreign ownership of clubs has basically made them a rich man's plaything and it is too late to try to shut the stable door now because the horse has already bolted.

100%. They are in this for the duration.

Suprised not more people have picked up on Abramovich's loss of interest in Chelsea. When the sanctions were tightened after that Salisbury incident, he didn't have his visa renewed. Similarly, Usmanov sold his shares not long after. Definitely some kind of squeeze on the oligarchs post Salisbury.

I suspect City's reserve side would probably finish in the top 6. That shows you the gulf in quality that teams without City's financial might are up against.

Yep.

I also think City have taken spending to another level and Abramovich probably looked at them and thought it was just impossible to compete.

If we both agree Arsenal is not f*cked, and I've listed things to be positive about, so you just want to know what I would consider would be disaster for Arsenal? Not sure why my positivity rub your the wrong way. Anyway if we ended up like Leeds, that would be pretty disastrous. And they just missed out on promotions to EPL this season.

I just looked Leeds up. They were last in the Premier League in season 2003/4, when they were relegated. So it would take not only relegation but fifteen years of failure to get promotion to make you see Arsenal's position as 'pretty disastrous'. Okay, thanks for explaining what it would take to stop you being positive. It strikes me as a fairly extreme down turn in fortunes.

Wonder if Man City fans, and Chelsea supporters considering all the succes they've enjoyed under Abramovich, share your view? I doubt it somehow.

I don't think any of these rules are really enforceable especially about inflating sponsorship. Who determines a proper value of sponsorship? IMO the only way restrictions can start making a difference is with restrictions on how many players you can own. Chelsea have players all over the place as I expect do Man City. If you make it that you can loan out up to 6 players who must have come thru your youth squad, only have 25 players in your squad of which 10 must be from GB or originally a youth player and anyone else you own or have an interest in incurs a 5 point deduction of points from your league total. If you are found to have an interest in a player that is undeclared then the following season you start with minus 30 points per player. Might make a few people focus a little better. I have not suggested a salary cap because people in every sport find ways to cheat on the cap. The exact same situation needs to be rigorously enforced against places like Real and Barca who often have large debt levels. Plus I would like to see some recognition given to clubs who actually own their own stadium and are not owned by a government or someone else.

They would argue they are "self-sustaining" with the wheeling and dealing in the transfer market (esp. Chelsea) and through self-generated revenue & sponsorships - in fact MC is arguing they are conforming to the financial fair play with those dodgy multimillion sponsorships.. everyone knows that's not true. But it is an admission that self-sustaining model is the correct one.

I know a number of Chav$ fans who stopped going when Abramovich arrived as they felt the club lost it's identity
Mind you, I also know a few who have given up going since he stopped spending as they felt they would no longer be able to compete for major titles.

Number of people including itk types are linking us with Zaha who Is just the type of player we need.

Odd one as surely signing him would consume our whole budget . I wonder if this talk of a 40million budget is bluffing as a negotiating tactic.

We seem to be getting linked with tons of players

There are rumours that between them, Arse & Chavs have only sold 6,000 tickets for Baku.

Bet they've gained many, many more fans than they've lost since Abramovich took them over. That's what winning trophies does to your fan base.

I read Saturday Arsenal have sold 2600 and Chelsea have sold 600

I went with the Thomas Cook flights as advertised on Arsenal.com. Didn't realise at the time that Thomas Cook are in such big financial.trouble. I hope that doesn't explain why I've still not heard which London airport I'll be going from and at what time.

I'll be amazed if Chelsea haven't done something similar to get their fans there and back. Anyone heard what airline they're using?

I read that Thomas Cook are handling both teams' travelling arrangements - presumably in separate planes.

Have you heard yet whether it's a direct flight, Bern?

They should show the match at Wembley. I'd go.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea/chelsea-struggling-to-sell-thousands-of-europa-league-final-tickets-a4144816.html

This confirms things.

Thanks, I had wondered if Chelsea are also using Thomas Cook. Yes it is a direct flight. I've also asked Thomas Cook if they've arranged coach travel to get people from the airport to the ground and back. Yet again, no reply yet.

You probably don't want to hear this Bern but £979 is an outrageous price for a flights-only day trip, on crammed planes, with no luggage and no other customer benefits. You can bet it'll be a 'dry' flight too.

You could get return tickets on scheduled flights to pretty much anywhere in the world for that.

As I say - respect!

I know you're right DHD but I've seen every cup final we've been in since my first, Leeds in the League Cup in 1968. I had to go, and the only thing that will stop me is Thomas Cook going out of business in the next nine days. Which probably isn't impossible.

I think it's much more to do with City trying to give the impression that they're meeting the FFP rules than admitting that a self-sustaining strategy is correct for them.

The people I know who were Chelsea fans pre Roman were guys at the pub I went to in LA and over a certain age, say 40 or 45, everyone else pretty much became fans when Roman came in. Especially every American I know as well as pretty much ever non Brit.

Steve Bould leaving and Freddie taking his place

Not surprising as he has even stopped celebrating our goals. So dysfunctional

I wonder who would be the better coach Freddie or Wilford

Indeed, I don't see many Arsenal shirts around my area these days, more Liverpool, the odd City and Chavski, less United as well I'd say.

Abramovich might leave the chavs but they'll likely get a better owner than Kroenke, still we can all hail our wonderful self-sustaining model, nothing to do with KSE not wanting to invest a penny, everything to do with "the Arsenal way" and "financial fair play". Give me a break.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/owners-are ... tious-club

Vomitorium. But some nice eye candy (not no neck and corporate Kevin).

Indeed you are right. It's more of a grudging acknowledgement by the owners of MC they need to play by the rules (by bending them). But as per HoddGooner, they are fans who do not enjoy the success brought/bought by Abramovich.

Anyway, what about you Bernard? Supposed you are the owner but without unlimitless fund. Would you pursue a self-sustaining model?

Ljungberg of course.

Exciting news. Freddie has done a good job with the U23. Maybe a move to incorporate more young players into the first team squad.

You'd have to say Thomas Cook managing to rack up a 1.5 billion pound loss for the first half of this year takes some doing .

If things go tits up after you arrive .... at least the camel trip home will make this the most memorable of your finals no matter what the result .

Best go for a dromedary the two humped job , probably offers more comfort over the 'single' seater model .

If I was the owner "without unlimitless fund", by which I assume you mean limited financial resources, as an Arsenal owner I would spend as much as I could afford to bring success on the pitch. Sod the self-sustaining strategy. If, however, that still wasn't enough to win trophies, I would look to sell to someone with unlimited wealth who would ignore any self-sustaing strategy by spending enough to bring the biggest trophies.

If I owned another club I would pursue a strict self-sustaining strategy so I wouldn't have to put a single penny of my own money into it, particularly if it was a club I didn't like or had zero affinity with. That appears to be what Arsenal have with Kroenke.

I’ve just read that the Emirates Cup has been reduced to a single day. Our women will play Bayern Munich, and our men will play Lyons. Good choice - it could have been embarrassing the other way around.

I would hope Ljunberg is the better coach if he's replacing Bould. Unlike the order they came in as players.

Freddie's a lot shorter so he'll be better suited to setting out the cones.

Match ticket came this morning and received the visa to get into Azerbaijan last week. The only thing I haven't had are the flight tickets from Thomas Cook. Sent them a message asking what London airport I'll be flying from, the times of the flights, and whether there will be coaches to take fans from the airport in Baku to the ground and back again after the game.

Sent that message last week and I've not heard a single bloody thing from Thomas Cook. Probably made all their staff redundant before going out of business.

EDIT: Just had a look on Arsenal.com and it now says Thomas Cook travel for the game is no longer available. In panic I phoned the ticket office, and thankfully they said that's because all the flight tickets are sold and they're not putting on any more planes. It seems Thomas Cook are sending out the itinerary for the trip this Friday. Phew!