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Post #503361  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:40 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Listening to arsecast and he’s nailing it.

Agree. I listened first thing and found it hard to disagree with anything.

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Post #503362  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:37 am 
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Darren wrote:
Rich wrote:
Yet more eveidence that this squad needs totally ripping apart and starting again. I think there is only 8 or so of this squad is keep. It just reeks of mediocrity in every position.



The whole club is a mess. Mislintat, Özil, Ramsey, Kroenke. It's bollocks.


Ever since the club lost Danny Fiszman, Dein and the old board it’s never been the same. Even if they weren’t perfect and we used to moan about them they seemed to know what arsenal were all about.

The new lot, Kroenke, Mislintat, Gazidis some *%^@*** big time Spanish Barca exec Sanelhi and now their talking about some foreign director at Roma. Do any of these *%^@ understand arsenal and what’s required ?

I doubt it. Does anyone reckon even now with his health conditions Dein would do a worse job as director than Sanelhi or anyone else.

Surely Dein would have been pragmatic enough to negotiate to buy Suarez from Liverpool when the morons at the club offered 50 million and one pound exactly to meet his buyout clause. What f&*%wit came up with that idea.

The club is a mess top to bottom and everyone mentioned is making a killing off arsenal fans whilst serving up utter dross on the pitch.

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Post #503363  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:49 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
My top ten arsenal midfielders of all time. (Doesn’t include players that could be considered wingers e.g merse or overmars)

In order

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Paul Davis (criminally under rated I thought)
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Kevin Richardson (that was another odd transfer, wins a title and puff he’s gone to Spain,)

There will be plenty on honourable mentions potentially for Alan Ball (a favourite of my dads ) and others but this was aimed at players in my arsenal supporting era

Your list has a lot of merit. The first two are the same for me, but Petit comes third. He and Vieira is the best central midfield I've ever seen at Arsenal.

Are you counting Pires as a winger but Rocastle, who played mostly out wide, as a central player? I saw Alan Ball so he walks into my top ten. As does Stewart Robson who you don't mention at all. I agree with you putting Williams and Davis quite high.

I'm also going to get Charlie George in as a midfielder. After all, Radford and Kennedy were the front two he played behind in the first double season. The only reason I've excluded Alan Hudson is he didn't play enough games.

My own top ten: 1) Vieira 2) Brady 3) Petit 4) Ball 5) Rocastle 6) Fabregas 7) Williams 8) Robson 9) Davis 10) George


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Post #503364  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:21 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
My top ten arsenal midfielders of all time. (Doesn’t include players that could be considered wingers e.g merse or overmars)

In order

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Paul Davis (criminally under rated I thought)
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Kevin Richardson (that was another odd transfer, wins a title and puff he’s gone to Spain,)

There will be plenty on honourable mentions potentially for Alan Ball (a favourite of my dads ) and others but this was aimed at players in my arsenal supporting era

Your list has a lot of merit. The first two are the same for me, but Petit comes third. He and Vieira is the best central midfield I've ever seen at Arsenal.

Are you counting Pires as a winger but Rocastle, who played mostly out wide, as a central player? I saw Alan Ball so he walks into my top ten. As does Stewart Robson who you don't mention at all. I agree with you putting Williams and Davis quite high.

I'm also going to get Charlie George in as a midfielder. After all, Radford and Kennedy were the front two he played behind in the first double season. The only reason I've excluded Alan Hudson is he didn't play enough games.

My own top ten: 1) Vieira 2) Brady 3) Petit 4) Ball 5) Rocastle 6) Fabregas 7) Williams 8) Robson 9) Davis 10) George


Great top ten ! Ball was supposed to be a cracking player.

i consider rocky a midfielder primarily a midfielder rather than winger and whilst he did often play on the right he also played in the centre and I saw him more of a workhorse midfield than a winger hence his inclusion. Actually and for that reason the notable omission from both our tens in ominous, what about the Romford pele! 3 titles 4 fa cups and a league cup! How did we miss him, I’m not sure who I would remove from my ten to include him.

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Post #503365  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:28 pm 
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This from Amy Lawrence in this morning’s Grauniad:

“It speaks volumes for the scale of change since Arsenal visited the Borisov Arena in last season’s Europa League that out of the 18-man squad who came during Arsène Wenger’s final campaign only four travelled this time. Most of last season’s headline players here - Olivier Giroud, Theo Walcott and Jack Wilshere - feel part of a different era.
The really complicated bit is that last year’s crop, who won 4-2 here, were unmistakably the B team, players who were struggling to get into Arsenal’s Premier League selection. This was Emery’s selection more or less at full strength, barring injuries and illness, and they found the going extremely heavy. Shaping a new Arsenal identity is not a particularly simple task in a squad who still have a transitional feel.”


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Post #503366  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
My own top ten: 1) Vieira 2) Brady 3) Petit 4) Ball 5) Rocastle 6) Fabregas 7) Williams 8) Robson 9) Davis 10) George


Understandable that you rate Petit so highly B - can't say I'd argue - but - he wouldn't be that high on my list because wasn't really with us that long. Looking at your list and their respective appearances:
1) Vieira 279
2) Brady 235
3) Petit 85
4) Ball 177
5) Rocastle 228
6) Fabregas 212
7) Williams 95
8) Robson 150
9) Davis 446
10) George 133


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Post #503367  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:08 pm 
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Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Manu was a great midfielder but not as good as Cesc especially in the legend stakes for legging it off to Barca

My adjusted one

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Ray Parlour
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Paul Davis

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Post #503368  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:22 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Last night was embarassing and humiliating.

The worst thing was it wasn't due to lack of effort it was just an overall lack of quality, individually and collectively. How many teams have we seen park the bus against us in recent seasons and we just don't have the nous to overcome this tactic.

.

Hi Soc

The frustrating thing about last night is that these chumps weren't even good at parking the bus. We just did nothing. Persevering with 3 centre backs against a team with a feeble attacking threat. It was terrible stuff.

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Post #503369  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:27 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Manu was a great midfielder but not as good as Cesc especially in the legend stakes for legging it off to Barca

My adjusted one

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Ray Parlour
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Paul Davis

Freddie? More of a central midfielder than Rocky..

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Post #503370  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:12 pm 
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dec wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Manu was a great midfielder but not as good as Cesc especially in the legend stakes for legging it off to Barca

My adjusted one

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Ray Parlour
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Paul Davis

Freddie? More of a central midfielder than Rocky..


I always thought of him as a wide attacker .

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Post #503371  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:47 pm 
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dec wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Freddie? More of a central midfielder than Rocky..

I always thought of him as a wide attacker .

I certainly see Ljungberg as a wider player.


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Post #503372  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:02 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Rocastle had a better all round game than Fabregas. Both were supremely gifted, but Rocastle consistently won the ball too. For me Parlour isn't quite gifted enough to get in my top ten.


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Post #503373  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Willock with two more goals for the U23s tonight. They lead spurs 3-0 at Ht. probably deserves some more first team chances


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Post #503374  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Rocastle had a better all round game than Fabregas. Both were supremely gifted, but Rocastle consistently won the ball too. For me Parlour isn't quite gifted enough to get in my top ten.


Was Stewart robson much better than parlour ? He was before my time.

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Post #503375  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:42 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Manu was a great midfielder but not as good as Cesc especially in the legend stakes for legging it off to Barca

My adjusted one

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Ray Parlour
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Paul Davis


Santi Cazorla is (almost) everyone's recent favourite... Guendouzi will be the next one.


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Post #503376  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:48 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Was Stewart robson much better than parlour ? He was before my time.

That explains it. Didn't realise Robson pre-dates you. But yes, he was.


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Post #503377  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:52 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Was Stewart robson much better than parlour ? He was before my time.

That explains it. Didn't realise Robson pre-dates you. But yes, he was.
No he was not.

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Post #503378  Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:56 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Surely picking Rocky ahead of Fàbregas is pure sentimentality. Parlour has to be included

I think Manu was a great midfielder but not as good as Cesc especially in the legend stakes for legging it off to Barca

My adjusted one

1) Patrick Vieira (the king)
2) Liam Brady
3) Cesc Fabregas (will anger some but it’s my list)
4) Emmanuel Petitt
5) David Rocastle
6) Steve Williams (why did George sell him, he seemed a very George player)
7) Ray Parlour
8) Mickey Thomas (I’m so tempted to put him higher but he could be such a lazy git sometimes but that was the conundrum about him as a player )
9) The invisible wall
10) Paul Davis


Santi Cazorla is (almost) everyone's recent favourite... Guendouzi will be the next one.

And with good cause. Cazorla was a lovely player. Better than Williams, Parlour, Stewart Robson, Paul Davis. Ramsey should be in there too.

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Post #503379  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:54 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
That explains it. Didn't realise Robson pre-dates you. But yes, he was.
No he was not.

Come off it. Of course he was!


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Post #503380  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:01 am 
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OK So Peter Storey and "Stanley" Simpson, the two midfield anchors that brought us our first "Double", don't get a mention...?? - Unbelievable!


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Post #503381  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:53 am 
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dec wrote:
Goonie wrote:

Santi Cazorla is (almost) everyone's recent favourite... Guendouzi will be the next one.

And with good cause. Cazorla was a lovely player. Better than Williams, Parlour, Stewart Robson, Paul Davis. Ramsey should be in there too.


Which player would you remove for Ramsey then ?cazorla maybe for Davis at best.

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Post #503382  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:51 am 
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Roastbeef wrote:
OK So Peter Storey and "Stanley" Simpson, the two midfield anchors that brought us our first "Double", don't get a mention...?? - Unbelievable!

Surely Peter Simpson is predominantly remembered as a central defender? McLintock's partner in the first double season.


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Post #503383  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:04 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
dec wrote:
And with good cause. Cazorla was a lovely player. Better than Williams, Parlour, Stewart Robson, Paul Davis. Ramsey should be in there too.

Which player would you remove for Ramsey then ?cazorla maybe for Davis at best.

Personally I'd go for Davis instead of Cazorla. Think dec is grossly over-rating both him and Ramsey. It's not all about technical ability. If it was, Hudson and Özil would walk into everyone's top ten.


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Post #503384  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:14 am 
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Roastbeef wrote:
OK So Peter Storey and "Stanley" Simpson, the two midfield anchors that brought us our first "Double", don't get a mention...?? - Unbelievable!
Yes, though I think of Stan as a great defender a little further back than midfield. He was very adaptable and could play several roles. Another who I rated was Talbot - phenomenal strength and will-to-win. A personal favourite from an earlier time was Jimmy Bloomfield - a class act.

However, the best of the lot was the incomparable Paddy.

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Post #503385  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:15 am 
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Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
No he was not.

Come off it. Of course he was!
Oh, no he wasn't!

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Post #503386  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:18 am 
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Jon Sammels was a very gifted player too - great passer, wonderful shot and a bit harder in the tackle than his critics believed.

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Post #503387  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:50 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Which player would you remove for Ramsey then ?cazorla maybe for Davis at best.

Personally I'd go for Davis instead of Cazorla. Think dec is grossly over-rating both him and Ramsey. It's not all about technical ability. If it was, Hudson and Özil would walk into everyone's top ten.

I know it is not all about technical ability, but that is primarily what differentiates top players from the rest. Cazorla has played over 70 times for Spain, winning 2 Euro championships at a time when they never had a better selection of midfielders. I really liked Paul Davis and think that he was under-rated during his career but Santi was comfortably a better player.

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Post #503388  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:30 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Come off it. Of course he was!
Oh, no he wasn't!

You must be on a wind up.


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Post #503389  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:35 pm 
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dec wrote:
but Santi was comfortably a better player.

A bit more skillful perhaps, but sorry not even close to being 'comfortably a better player'. Davis won the ball back as well as being very talented.


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Post #503390  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Greeny wrote:
4th place more likely than EL win

I actually think winning the Europa League is more likely than a top four place. Why don't you?

Goonermen, lend me your ears!

With the top four place we are competing against Chelsea and Man U
For the Europa League we are competing with Chelsea, and also Inter, Napoli, Sevilla, Valencia, Villarreal, Benfica
All teams that can beat us over two legs
The Premier League is easier for this side

Thank you for taking the time
Greeny

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Post #503391  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:28 pm 
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Kusal Perera 153 not out to beat SA by one wicket at Kingsmead. One for the ages that.

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Post #503392  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:43 pm 
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With all the debate about our greatest midfielders I notice not even a mention for Xhaka. He'd struggle to make the top 30.


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Post #503393  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Greeny wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I actually think winning the Europa League is more likely than a top four place. Why don't you?

Goonermen, lend me your ears!

With the top four place we are competing against Chelsea and Man U
For the Europa League we are competing with Chelsea, and also Inter, Napoli, Sevilla, Valencia, Villarreal, Benfica
All teams that can beat us over two legs
The Premier League is easier for this side

Thank you for taking the time
Greeny

I'd be amazed if they achieved either. But I'd agree: 4th is the marginal less improbable of the two.

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Post #503394  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Just as some weekends are chock full of high class sport, this week is the opposite. Couple of poxy cup ties in which I have no interest whatever, so I watched the cricket.

Wow!

South Africa v Sri Lanka - what a last session. Needing 304 in the final innings, Sri Lanka were well placed on 206-6, but SA took quick wickets and had it all but wrapped up at 226-9. Then Perera took control, farming the bowling to knock off the 78 runs needed. He finished on 153 not out and his partner Fernando faced 28 balls to score 6, 4 of which came from overthrows! Amazing game.

Were you watching, Decaf?


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Post #503395  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Greeny wrote:
Goonermen, lend me your ears!

With the top four place we are competing against Chelsea and Man U
For the Europa League we are competing with Chelsea, and also Inter, Napoli, Sevilla, Valencia, Villarreal, Benfica
All teams that can beat us over two legs
The Premier League is easier for this side

Thank you for taking the time
Greeny

I'd be amazed if they achieved either. But I'd agree: 4th is the marginal less improbable of the two.

Although any of Inter, Napoli, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal and Benfica could beat us over two legs, I'd make us the favourites against all of them. For me winning the Europa League still looks more likely than finishing above both Chelsea and Manchester United in the Premier League (assuming that overtaking Man City, Liverpool and Tottenham is beyond us).


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Post #503396  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:06 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
With all the debate about our greatest midfielders I notice not even a mention for Xhaka. He'd struggle to make the top 30.


top 30? Wouldn't make my top 100!

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Post #503397  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:12 pm 
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As well as those already mentioned, for a top 30 I'd include the following (in no particular order):
Kelly, Talbot, Gilberto, Edu, Petrovic, Rosicky

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Post #503398  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:14 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I'd be amazed if they achieved either. But I'd agree: 4th is the marginal less improbable of the two.

Although any of Inter, Napoli, Sevilla, Valencia, Villareal and Benfica could beat us over two legs, I'd make us the favourites against all of them. For me winning the Europa League still looks more likely than finishing above both Chelsea and Manchester United in the Premier League (assuming that overtaking Man City, Liverpool and Tottenham is beyond us).


What are you on. I'd love some if you've got any to spare................

Win the Europa when we can't even beat Bate away :42laughter: :1laughter: :1cry:


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Post #503399  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:48 pm 
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Worst ten arsenal midfielders ? :laughing7:

Where do you start

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Post #503400  Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:51 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Worst ten arsenal midfielders ? :laughing7:

Where do you start

Xhaka?

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