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Post #493961  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:25 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I can remember Winterburn having poor games but not whole season. Which ones in particular ?

Towards the end of his career. I'd say he had at least a couple, maybe even three dodgy ones.


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Post #493962  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:03 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Arsenal have activated a 1 year extension clause for Monreal who would have been free this summer. Probably a good decision but not one that should stop us shopping for a new LB this summer. Monreal picks up more and more injuries but can provide good cover in the squad when fit and I haven't seen too much to suggest when he is fit that his performances are dropping off a cliff in his later years

I'd put Monreal third or at worst fourth in the list of best left backs I've seen play for Arsenal. Behind Sansom and Cole as the top two. Third or fourth is between Monreal and Winterburn. I can see arguments for both, but Winterburn had two or three quite poor seasons so I may put Monreal third. Clichy fifth, McNab sixth, and Nelson (whose reputation in my view is way higher than his true level) seventh. Who else is there? Kolasinac eighth, Gibbs ninth, Morrow in last place; though the latter played a lot in midfield too.

Have I forgotten any who played many games at left back?

I think you are selling your idol short , I'd put Clichy streets ahead of Monreal .

Winterburn as well , he was 'old school' mastered the art of defence first , then did the ocassional foray forward .

These days they are asked to bomb forward , provide the overlap and to my way of thinking are bit more 'Jack of All Trades' master of none .

I subscribe to the George Graham , Don Howe way of thinking ..... build a 'stay at home' impregnable defence and let the midfield and attackers get on with the job of creating and scoring goals .


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Post #493963  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I can remember Winterburn having poor games but not whole season. Which ones in particular ?

Towards the end of his career. I'd say he had at least a couple, maybe even three dodgy ones.

with West Ham


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Post #493964  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:19 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
with West Ham

No, at Arsenal. Quite a few fans had noticed.


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Post #493965  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:11 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
I think you are selling your idol short , I'd put Clichy streets ahead of Monreal .

As some may have noticed, I reckon Clichy is seriously under-rated by quite a few fans. But I'd still put Monreal ahead of him. I think Monreal performed at a high level over many years. Ultra-reliable and ultra-consistent.


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Post #493966  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Zed wrote:

If we do get him and manage to get a decent price for Özil, that's fantastic.

However,
a) it seems that yet again our transfer policy seems to be driven by who is available rather than who we really need.
b) until he's actually signed on the dotted line, I'm treating this as a distraction. The memories of the likes of Higuan and Saurez are too fresh.

I hope we are not wasting time chasing players who are not REALLY going to come to arsenal but are simply putting themselves in the shop window.

Seems he may stay at Bayern till June anyway. Asking for £63M is being too much for Arsenal to pay apparently. Özil leaving is still not a definite either.

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Post #493967  Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:41 pm 
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Late night greetings Bern.

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Post #493968  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:42 am 
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Zed wrote:
Late night greetings Bern.

Hi Zed. According to the Guardian, Ramsey has agreed a five year deal withJuventus, who he'll join in the summer.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r-deal-36m


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Post #493969  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:38 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Zed wrote:
Late night greetings Bern.

Hi Zed. According to the Guardian, Ramsey has agreed a five year deal withJuventus, who he'll join in the summer.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r-deal-36m

On less money per week than Arsenal had offered him. The player himself has said he wanted to play abroad, he's been very unlucky with injuries with us which has lead to inconsistency, his attitude this season has also been spot on even though he knows he's leaving. I don't bear him any grudge going off to test himself in another top league with a top club.

What I do bear a huge grudge with is the club letting a player like this go for free when you see absolute dross players go for £20m+. It will cost us £40m to get a replacement for Ramsey in today's market.

The mess we make on the pitch in matches pales in to insignificance to the mess and damage that has been done off the pitch with a bizarre wage bill, poor recruitment and mismanagement of players contracts.

There have been times when cbig clubs have changed manager and needed to hit the reset button, a new man comes in and there is a turnover in players and people realise it will take some time for the new man to get the team he wants etc. Our situation is totally different, it is far worse because our new man has to live with the ongoing damage of the last 8 years and try to reconstruct the squad.

To anybody not aware of the finer details of Arsenal's situation we may look like a club in a relatively healthy situation with star players like Aubamayang, Özil, Lacazette and great young players like Bellerin, Torreira etc but the reality is there is a huge mess to clear up before we can start thinking about seriously moving forward again as a club.


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Post #493970  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:34 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Nothing on our website or with other newspapers?

Is this a windup


No it’s not. Says we’ve had a bid accepted, I’ve no reason to doubt it.

Welcome to Arsenal James Rodriguez

I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.

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Post #493971  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:01 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

No it’s not. Says we’ve had a bid accepted, I’ve no reason to doubt it.

Welcome to Arsenal James Rodriguez

I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.

My tip is he will come on after 10 minutes when one of our CB's gets injured. Despite the fact he has never played in the position before he will still play better than a couple of our regular players in the position.

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Post #493972  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:06 am 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Hi Zed. According to the Guardian, Ramsey has agreed a five year deal withJuventus, who he'll join in the summer.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r-deal-36m

On less money per week than Arsenal had offered him. The player himself has said he wanted to play abroad, he's been very unlucky with injuries with us which has lead to inconsistency, his attitude this season has also been spot on even though he knows he's leaving. I don't bear him any grudge going off to test himself in another top league with a top club.

What I do bear a huge grudge with is the club letting a player like this go for free when you see absolute dross players go for £20m+. It will cost us £40m to get a replacement for Ramsey in today's market.

The mess we make on the pitch in matches pales in to insignificance to the mess and damage that has been done off the pitch with a bizarre wage bill, poor recruitment and mismanagement of players contracts.

There have been times when cbig clubs have changed manager and needed to hit the reset button, a new man comes in and there is a turnover in players and people realise it will take some time for the new man to get the team he wants etc. Our situation is totally different, it is far worse because our new man has to live with the ongoing damage of the last 8 years and try to reconstruct the squad.

To anybody not aware of the finer details of Arsenal's situation we may look like a club in a relatively healthy situation with star players like Aubamayang, Özil, Lacazette and great young players like Bellerin, Torreira etc but the reality is there is a huge mess to clear up before we can start thinking about seriously moving forward again as a club.

I suspect that he wants to finish his career with more than a couple of FA Cup medals. Like RVP, Fabergas, Cliche, Nasri they wanted something other than the flash house and car to prove that they had some success at football.

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Post #493973  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:34 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

No it’s not. Says we’ve had a bid accepted, I’ve no reason to doubt it.

Welcome to Arsenal James Rodriguez

I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.

Is this a joke that’s gone flying over my head? I can’t see any confirmation that we’ve signed this player.

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Post #493974  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

No it’s not. Says we’ve had a bid accepted, I’ve no reason to doubt it.

Welcome to Arsenal James Rodriguez

I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.


It would be reckless just chucking him in the deep end. Better off starting Iwobi


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Post #493975  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:08 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.


It would be reckless just chucking him in the deep end. Better off starting Iwobi

Fair point. Iwobi is a senior Nigerian international. Better him than the new kid from Colombia.

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Post #493976  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:39 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.


It would be reckless just chucking him in the deep end. Better off starting Iwobi

Keep him on the bench. A strong bench is very important. Wouldn't want to mess with that by playing him.

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Post #493977  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:45 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
I guess James will be on the bench against West Ham? Wouldn't want to risk him in the starting line-up after only one or two training sessions.

Is this a joke that’s gone flying over my head? I can’t see any confirmation that we’ve signed this player.

No. Sources close to the club are indicating that we have signed Varane and Leroy Sane so we won't be needing James.

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Post #493978  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Zed wrote:
Late night greetings Bern.

Hi Zed. According to the Guardian, Ramsey has agreed a five year deal withJuventus, who he'll join in the summer.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r-deal-36m

Indeed. Now he'll be playing in the CL.

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Post #493979  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Emery press conference confirms no money for player purchases, only looking at loan deals


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Post #493980  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Hi Zed. According to the Guardian, Ramsey has agreed a five year deal withJuventus, who he'll join in the summer.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... r-deal-36m

On less money per week than Arsenal had offered him. The player himself has said he wanted to play abroad, he's been very unlucky with injuries with us which has lead to inconsistency, his attitude this season has also been spot on even though he knows he's leaving. I don't bear him any grudge going off to test himself in another top league with a top club.

What I do bear a huge grudge with is the club letting a player like this go for free when you see absolute dross players go for £20m+. It will cost us £40m to get a replacement for Ramsey in today's market.

The mess we make on the pitch in matches pales in to insignificance to the mess and damage that has been done off the pitch with a bizarre wage bill, poor recruitment and mismanagement of players contracts.

There have been times when cbig clubs have changed manager and needed to hit the reset button, a new man comes in and there is a turnover in players and people realise it will take some time for the new man to get the team he wants etc. Our situation is totally different, it is far worse because our new man has to live with the ongoing damage of the last 8 years and try to reconstruct the squad.

To anybody not aware of the finer details of Arsenal's situation we may look like a club in a relatively healthy situation with star players like Aubamayang, Özil, Lacazette and great young players like Bellerin, Torreira etc but the reality is there is a huge mess to clear up before we can start thinking about seriously moving forward again as a club.

Is there anything to suggest that the current set-up is any better? They withdrew the offer to Ramsey. Lichtsteiner has been a dreadful signing. No fee but big wages. I'm not sure about Leno at all. The Mkhitaryan deal is a bloody disaster. Aubameyang, Torreira and Sokratis were good business.

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Post #493981  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:23 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
On less money per week than Arsenal had offered him. The player himself has said he wanted to play abroad, he's been very unlucky with injuries with us which has lead to inconsistency, his attitude this season has also been spot on even though he knows he's leaving. I don't bear him any grudge going off to test himself in another top league with a top club.

What I do bear a huge grudge with is the club letting a player like this go for free when you see absolute dross players go for £20m+. It will cost us £40m to get a replacement for Ramsey in today's market.

The mess we make on the pitch in matches pales in to insignificance to the mess and damage that has been done off the pitch with a bizarre wage bill, poor recruitment and mismanagement of players contracts.

There have been times when cbig clubs have changed manager and needed to hit the reset button, a new man comes in and there is a turnover in players and people realise it will take some time for the new man to get the team he wants etc. Our situation is totally different, it is far worse because our new man has to live with the ongoing damage of the last 8 years and try to reconstruct the squad.

To anybody not aware of the finer details of Arsenal's situation we may look like a club in a relatively healthy situation with star players like Aubamayang, Özil, Lacazette and great young players like Bellerin, Torreira etc but the reality is there is a huge mess to clear up before we can start thinking about seriously moving forward again as a club.

Is there anything to suggest that the current set-up is any better? They withdrew the offer to Ramsey. Lichtsteiner has been a dreadful signing. No fee but big wages. I'm not sure about Leno at all. The Mkhitaryan deal is a bloody disaster. Aubameyang, Torreira and Sokratis were good business.

I think the current regime has been more hit than miss. I agree on the two transfers you note as being poor signings.
Lichtsteiner seems like a good idea on paper, we lacked leaders and experience and he was free and wouldn’t expect to play every game. The risk is that the form of players of this age can drop drastically rather than gracefully. He’s with us for 1 year in a transition year so not a huge blunder.
Mkhitaryan seemed to be a panic buy to save face in is getting shafted on Sanchez. Man U were silly enough to throw Martial in instead who I heard was the first choice for the swap.
Leno the jury is still out but has he made many more mistakes that have led to goals than the much lauded Alison? I can think of 2-3 each. I’m happy to give Leno time.
The others you mention, plus Guendouzi seem good business.


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Post #493982  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:05 pm 
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dec wrote:
Rich wrote:
On less money per week than Arsenal had offered him. The player himself has said he wanted to play abroad, he's been very unlucky with injuries with us which has lead to inconsistency, his attitude this season has also been spot on even though he knows he's leaving. I don't bear him any grudge going off to test himself in another top league with a top club.

What I do bear a huge grudge with is the club letting a player like this go for free when you see absolute dross players go for £20m+. It will cost us £40m to get a replacement for Ramsey in today's market.

The mess we make on the pitch in matches pales in to insignificance to the mess and damage that has been done off the pitch with a bizarre wage bill, poor recruitment and mismanagement of players contracts.

There have been times when cbig clubs have changed manager and needed to hit the reset button, a new man comes in and there is a turnover in players and people realise it will take some time for the new man to get the team he wants etc. Our situation is totally different, it is far worse because our new man has to live with the ongoing damage of the last 8 years and try to reconstruct the squad.

To anybody not aware of the finer details of Arsenal's situation we may look like a club in a relatively healthy situation with star players like Aubamayang, Özil, Lacazette and great young players like Bellerin, Torreira etc but the reality is there is a huge mess to clear up before we can start thinking about seriously moving forward again as a club.

Is there anything to suggest that the current set-up is any better? They withdrew the offer to Ramsey. Lichtsteiner has been a dreadful signing. No fee but big wages. I'm not sure about Leno at all. The Mkhitaryan deal is a bloody disaster. Aubameyang, Torreira and Sokratis were good business.


Mkhitaryan was a Gazidis and Wenger team team screw up.

Lichtsteiner was a 1 season sticking plaster. He’s *%^@ but a stop gap because we couldn’t afford anyone else so no loss.

Ramsey wanted 200 -300k a week. Do you think that’s good value because I don’t? Actually I think it’s this type of stuff that got us into this mess. Please bear in mind Dele Ali just signed a new deal at 150k a week is Ramsey twice as good ? I don’t think so


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Post #493983  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:07 pm 
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Saw this on twitter

Highlights our issues


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Post #493984  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:17 pm 
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dec wrote:
Lichtsteiner has been a dreadful signing. No fee but big wages.


Disagree. I think he was brought in because had 6 years of defending behind him at Juve. Emery probably wanted a real dark arts defender tp show the rest how it is done and he was available on a free. Had we not had so many injuries he would not have got the game time he has had.

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Post #493985  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:03 pm 
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What a sorry state of affairs.
Pathetic. Embarrassing.
How the hell do we have no money for permanent signings and can only do loans!!!
Or is this a ploy to make people believe we have no money to aid us with our summer transfer business.
If not then I just cannot fathom how we cannot buy players.
I know we have messed up on players like Sanchez and Ramsey re losing potential fees as well as Özil's ridiculous wages but despite this how the *%^@ can we not have money to spend. It beggars belief.
What a bloody mess.


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Post #493986  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Second rate owner = second rate club.

Debate over.

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Post #493987  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:00 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
dec wrote:
Is there anything to suggest that the current set-up is any better? They withdrew the offer to Ramsey. Lichtsteiner has been a dreadful signing. No fee but big wages. I'm not sure about Leno at all. The Mkhitaryan deal is a bloody disaster. Aubameyang, Torreira and Sokratis were good business.


Mkhitaryan was a Gazidis and Wenger team team screw up.

Lichtsteiner was a 1 season sticking plaster. He’s *%^@ but a stop gap because we couldn’t afford anyone else so no loss.

Ramsey wanted 200 -300k a week. Do you think that’s good value because I don’t? Actually I think it’s this type of stuff that got us into this mess. Please bear in mind Dele Ali just signed a new deal at 150k a week is Ramsey twice as good ? I don’t think so

Mislintat was on board for the Mkhitaryan transfer. Ramsey has signed a deal for 140k pw. There's no way he was getting 300k. Arsenal took their offer off the table. I know you don't like him, but he's a very good player. He has signed for one of the best clubs in world football with Bayern and PSG being the other two in the mix.

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Post #493988  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:08 pm 
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dec wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Mkhitaryan was a Gazidis and Wenger team team screw up.

Lichtsteiner was a 1 season sticking plaster. He’s *%^@ but a stop gap because we couldn’t afford anyone else so no loss.

Ramsey wanted 200 -300k a week. Do you think that’s good value because I don’t? Actually I think it’s this type of stuff that got us into this mess. Please bear in mind Dele Ali just signed a new deal at 150k a week is Ramsey twice as good ? I don’t think so

Mislintat was on board for the Mkhitaryan transfer. Ramsey has signed a deal for 140k pw. There's no way he was getting 300k. Arsenal took their offer off the table. I know you don't like him, but he's a very good player. He has signed for one of the best clubs in world football with Bayern and PSG being the other two in the mix.


Ramsey’s 140k is net not gross and Mislintat wasn’t the person who decided to keep Sanchez till the next window that was Wenger. signing mhikitaryan was a general face saving exercise by the club following that to avoid the sitauation we now have with Ramsey. Not sure you can put these calls on our chief scout

I like Ramsey but I wouldn’t class him as a very good player, He’s a reasonable midfielder with a totally inadequate range of passing for the position he plays who often thinks he’s a centre forward. Mark my words juve will bench him in no time


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Post #493989  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:23 pm 
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david.d wrote:
What a sorry state of affairs.
Pathetic. Embarrassing.
How the hell do we have no money for permanent signings and can only do loans!!!
Or is this a ploy to make people believe we have no money to aid us with our summer transfer business.
If not then I just cannot fathom how we cannot buy players.
I know we have messed up on players like Sanchez and Ramsey re losing potential fees as well as Özil's ridiculous wages but despite this how the *%^@ can we not have money to spend. It beggars belief.
What a bloody mess.

To answer your question, I don't think Wilts is too far from the likely answer.
Your question david.d: "How the hell do we have no money for permanent signings and can only do loans!!!"
My guess as to the answer: Stan Kroenke owns the club.


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Post #493990  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:28 pm 
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Wilts-Gooner wrote:
Second rate owner = second rate club.

Debate over.


I have to agree now. Arsenal’s value has doubled, but despite this he hasn’t put any cash in but also more importantly was responsible for giving Gazidis and Wenger protection from any decision they screwed up.

Remember the shareholders meeting when Gazidis was quizzed about Wenger leaving and said it was the fans responsibility. Even the fans knew better than him.

We have 4-5 years of finishing 5-8th ahead of us and Emery is expected to work miracles with zero money to rebuild. Totally unrealistic and Emery is a dead man on a hiding to nothing

What a mess.

I’d rather have hicks and gillet or an owner investing in the club rather than one who just wants to take our cash for profit. Kroenke out.


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Post #493991  Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:56 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
What a mess.

I’d rather have hicks and gillet or an owner investing in the club rather than one who just wants to take our cash for profit. Kroenke out.

I would probably rather have Jack the Ripper as the owner than Stan Kroenke. And that's despite nobody truly knowing who Jack the Ripper was, despite all the theories naming different people that may well have been formulated to sell books and get people watching television documentaries. Also, despite the fact that whoever it was, Jack the Ripper will be dead by now. If the murderer was about 30 when he committed the crimes he'd have been born over 161 years ago, and nobody lives anything like that old. Moreover, don't forget that life expectancy back then was much lower than now.


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Post #493992  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:58 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Saw this on twitter

Highlights our issues


Wenger over thought things, vacillated too much, too stubborn to get down of his high horse, justified his own decisions and sadly, this latter phase of him resides more in memory than his earlier successes. The period of decline was as long, if not longer, than the period of ascension.
His Invincibles and the 49-match unbeaten runs cannot be erased though. But for me, his destruction of the team over-shadows those achievements.

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Post #493993  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:03 am 
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Amazing we have no more money to buy players this window... unbelievable news.

Think it's time to follow Dortmund's wheeling and dealing model - buy high and sell higher.


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Post #493994  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:44 am 
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Rich wrote:
I think the current regime has been more hit than miss.

I think the early signs are really positive regarding our transfer business – Lichtsteiner is horrendous but only a backup. Leno has his flaws, but show a lot of potential. Sokratis has been a definite upgrade for me, the fact that we need to strengthen the position further is not his fault. Torreira, Aubameyang and Guendozi have ben brilliant signings. It takes time to completely change the structure of a club the way Arsenal has attempted to do.

And of course, it takes money as well. I’ve been very clear about what I think about the notion that an owner has some obligation to bankroll signings. However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.


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Post #493995  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:30 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.

Now he owns the club completely, Kroenke doesn't have to answer anything. My bet would be on a carefully worded 'we are ambitious and want to win trophies' type statement. I'll be surprised if we get much more than that.


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Post #493996  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:14 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
However, the club not having any of its own money to spend is of course a different matter. One where serious questions needs to be asked. Unfortunately I wouldn’t expect any answers until at least in the summer, if we get any answers at all.

Now he owns the club completely, Kroenke doesn't have to answer anything. My bet would be on a carefully worded 'we are ambitious and want to win trophies' type statement. I'll be surprised if we get much more than that.


After the spurs match I posted that we would be getting Kroenke out protests within 24 months. I stand by this prediction.

Your right he doesn’t have to tell us anything.

The major problem the club has over the next few years will be the prices of tickets don’t justify the entertainment that will be served up at the Emirates so the empty seats will continue as it becomes abundantly clear arsenal can no longer compete at the highest level.

I really don’t think Kroenke cares at all about this, he’s borrowed about 1 billion to buy arsenal and the club is now valued at over 2.7 billion so he’s made 1.7 billion dollars purely from running an unsuccessful football club for 10 years.!!! Money for old rope.

Even if we had an empty stadium for another 10 years the club would be increasing in value anyway because of sponsorship and shares would be going up in value.

The only hope we are is that Kroenke finds a new business venture that requires financing and he needs access to the capital in his arsenal shares and sells. However that would be absolutely crazy on his part as he has made over 1 billion dollars from arsenal for just borrowing money to buy us and doing nothing and that profit will only increase

It’s like buying Buckingham palace letting the whole place rot and get run down over 20 years before selling it for a fortune. Kroenke is a *%^@


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Post #493997  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:43 am 
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I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


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Post #493998  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:11 pm 
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I see the Cup game v Man U is to be a Friday night 7:55 job - cue a howl of protest from those few mancs who actually live in the North and won't get home until the early hours. Trains won't be an option for that kick-off time.

Same thing happened a couple of years ago when we drew them up there and the tie was switched to a Monday night - even worse for us since the Tuesday was a working day.

Similar timing/travel issues for the Blackpool tie the other week.

There really be should be some appreciation of away fans' travel issues. In these sustainable times, is it too much to ask that it should be possible for fans to get to and from away matches by Public Transport?


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Post #493999  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:11 pm 
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DHD wrote:
I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving


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Post #494000  Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:51 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
DHD wrote:
I don’t really understand the clamour for the Owner to fund new purchases with new money. It isn’t necessary.

It’s perfectly reasonable for any business to fund acquisitions or capital outlay based on loans which are secured against assets. That’s how business works. Arsenal FC have a massive asset base. As a business, the club is probably worth upwards of £2billion and has a revenue stream of maybe £500m+ per year – and all without much debt. With that sort of covenant, Funders would queue up to offer massive loans on very favourable terms. This sort of business plan would be entirely in line with a ‘self-sustaining’ model.

If a business decides to operate from current account only, from cash in hand without any borrowing, that’s a very different strategy. It’s still self-sustaining but by business standards, it’s an overly cautious, no risk approach. British industrial history tells us it’s a recipe for low growth and indeed stagnation.

I hesitate to offer any advice to Stan, who is a largely self-made billionaire, but it's sad if the Club choose this latter route when there's really no need.


Oh well another ten years of finishing 5th then.

He’s a person with zero understanding about football and I bet he doesn’t even check for our result. He’s left games at half time and football isn’t the same as any other business. Acquiring a football team isn’t the same as owning a vineyard or restaurant it’s completley evolving


It's deeply depressing prospect, isn't it TG?

As I say, I have no problem with a 'self-sustaining' strategy per se. Man U is run on self-sustaining lines. The Owners have put in absolutely nothing (quite the reverse) and the Club carries enormous debt - but nobody worries because the borrowing is backed up by the capital value of the business and it's capacity and track record on revenue generation. We don't have anywhere near their revenue capabilities but then we only carry a tiny fraction of their debt in terms of percentage of the club's value. There's no business reason why we can't raise funds by borrowing. If the club has a healthy trading position - and we do - astute and targetted borrowing can significantly enhance the position.

Investment can (many say 'should) be based on borrowing. It's how businesses grow.


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