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Post #484281  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Man U need 2 goals in 15 mins or they're out.
As I write Sevilla get their second. Looks all over now.
Mourinho's negative tactics haven't worked.


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Post #484282  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Sanchez out of Europe..................

Mkhi still in till the day after tomorrow at least.


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Post #484283  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:57 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Man U need 2 goals in 15 mins or they're out.
As I write Sevilla get their second. Looks all over now.
Mourinho's negative tactics haven't worked.


Only 4 shots on target over the 2 games.


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Post #484284  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Spoke to some Man U fans and they are annoyed at how poor Sanchez has been. Kept saying he drops too deep, holds on to the ball too much and gives it away too regularly. Couldn’t help but give them a wry smile.

At least when he did that with us last season he also banged in 30 goals and won games on his own.

Man U bought Sanchez to try to solve a problem they didn’t have and it’s made them worse.

Mourinho has been punished for his negative tactics.


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Post #484285  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:15 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Sanchez out of Europe..................

Mkhi still in till the day after tomorrow at least.

More important Mourinho's days at Utd will start counting down. The board will soon be asking questions. He has spent a fairly large amount of money and his tactics ofdefence defence defence find him out. I am not sure it is what the fans want at Utd in relation to attacking football.

As for Alexis I let it go along time ago.

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Post #484286  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Really enjoying wishing the Mancs Yedder luck next year.

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Post #484287  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Sanchez out of Europe..................

Mkhi still in till the day after tomorrow at least.

More important Mourinho's days at Utd will start counting down. The board will soon be asking questions. He has spent a fairly large amount of money and his tactics ofdefence defence defence find him out. I am not sure it is what the fans want at Utd in relation to attacking football.

As for Alexis I let it go along time ago.

His press conference will be enough for a large number of the fans to turn on Mourinho.

"I've sat in this chair twice before, with Porto - Man Utd out, with Real Madrid - Man Utd out, so this is nothing new for this football club."

He really doesn't give a *%^@.

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Post #484288  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Nzonzi very good again for Seville tonight, always impressed with him and would definitely take him in our team


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Post #484289  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:56 pm 
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dec wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
More important Mourinho's days at Utd will start counting down. The board will soon be asking questions. He has spent a fairly large amount of money and his tactics ofdefence defence defence find him out. I am not sure it is what the fans want at Utd in relation to attacking football.

As for Alexis I let it go along time ago.

His press conference will be enough for a large number of the fans to turn on Mourinho.

"I've sat in this chair twice before, with Porto - Man Utd out, with Real Madrid - Man Utd out, so this is nothing new for this football club."

He really doesn't give a *%^@.

No he doesn't care, but the good thing is that if they keep him for another year he will start personal attacks on players and spend a lot more money hopefully without a trophy. Don't want them to win the FA Cup. Hope he brings total chaos to their club.

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Post #484290  Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Rich wrote:
The invincible season is rightly a beacon of a record that is going to be technically impossible to beat but very very difficult to match. However I think there are two more records that I think will stand the test of time just as well.
Going the entire season unbeaten away from home TWICE in 02 and 04 was amazing. Also scoring in every prem game of the season is a staggering record


Quite agree. There is a reason why no one did any of things for several decades.

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Post #484291  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:07 am 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
He didn't have super bucks but I recall he waited 2 years to sign chamakh on a free who was dogshit and gave him a 60k a week contract and also turned down alonso from Liverpool because he deemed him not worth the extra 500k they wanted.

You single out Chamakh but what about Abu Diaby, Adebayor, Rosicki, van Persie, Hleb, Flamini, Eduardo, Gallas, (off the top of my head)? Wenger made some very shrewd purchases in the seasons after 2004. The fact the we were so financially tight meant that we tended to persist with players who were not quite fitting and not to replace players with long term injuries (and were we so unlucky with injuries).

And we suffered because Wenger's reputation for unearthing talent led to lots of our players being tapped up.

So we did remarkably well in the transfer market but did suffer from having one hand tied behind our back.

Things only really went pear-shaped in about 2010.


Also not only is the Alonso story about £500k long discredited as nonsense, but lest we forget Chamakh was never meant to be the main man, and lest we forget had the best start to his arsenal career of any striker since Ian Wright. He was never going to be brilliant, but his career was fecked by that horrible blackmailing business that totally destroyed his confidence.

People love to claim that without the old back 5 Wenger was nothing, but its revisionist nonsense. How many were in the team when we went unbeaten? How many were around when we got the Champion's League final, setting a new defensive record in the process (only to be shafted due to an offside equaliser and a crap back up keeper)? How many were around in 07-08 where we were the best team in the country by a mile until we literally ran out of players due to an appalling injury list (largely the result of horrible cynical tackles)?

I don't know TG constantly tries to destroy Wenger's prior achievements and diminish the man.

He was stupendously great for a few years. Then he was really quite good all things considered. Then he was Ok. Now he's a bit crap.

I don't see why the first sentence has to be viewed as mutually exclusive to the last. Nothing is constant. To live is to change. To suggest otherwise denies the point of life itself. Even Bernard's stance on Ljungberg has softened!

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Post #484292  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:12 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
McGuane plays in a variety of positions, but particularly defensive midfield. We are very average in this position at first team level and presumably it was the likes of Coquelin and Elneny keeping him from progressing a bit quicker. I can't really see the wisdom in that.
Nelson has had some chances this season to play, and I don't like petulant reactions from the bench,
BUT
What's the point of a youth system if you let the best prospects walk? How can a player like McGuane come out and say that he never had as much as a conversation with Wenger in many years at the club? This is a player good enough to attract Barcelona btw, not some jumped up no mark. Nelson has the potential to be a top quality wide attacker, something we're crying out for - so get him on the pitch as often as you can, I say.
3 up at home to Watford in a league season that's dead anyway seems like a no brainer.


Wenger preferred to let Welbeck play, to rebuild his confidence. He needs Welbeck to be good again, so nobody can say he bought crap. All, or at least most, of his decisions are with his own end in mind. He is too self-centred. Unfortunately, we will not progress very much with him hanging around. I've worked in a few companies where the CEO started to make rash and desperate decisions to save their reputation. But, none turned out right. Wenger will not turn out right, even if he has another decade of Arsenal.


Or maybe playing Welbeck with his trophy winning experience, excellent international goal ratio, fantastic work rate and positional flexibility, when he desperately needs game time and confidence for our Europa League run was a greater priority than giving an 18 year old who will only be turned to realistically in an injury crisis a few minutes.

You can hate Wenger all you like, but giving Welbeck minutes was the obvious choice for multiple reasons.

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Post #484293  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:20 am 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
If they are good enough, and they all looked it at first, is their deterioration since just a difficult but temporary period many young players experience? Or have they been Wengerised in a longer-term, meaning for as long as Mr Arse-hole - sorry, predictive text is playing up - Mr Arsene is around?

Morning Bernard

I don't believe they have deteriorated. When a young player breaks in to the team we always see the positives and tend to overlook the weaknesses. As they play more games, those weaknesses become more obvious and young players almost always go through tough spells.

I think that happened Bellerin last season and he also struggled with the change in formation. At this point, I think he is a much better player than the kid who broke into the team. He has been given far more responsibility and is essentially defending the right flank on his own. With a more cohesive midfield, he would be very good.

I'm not sure Iwobi has ever played at the level you would expect from an Arsenal attacker. He is more assured in his passing these days and his first touch has always been good but his finishing is still a big problem. He might be better suited to a deeper role, although I don't know if he has the positional awareness to do that.

Holding is one player who really went through a bad spell, and when that happens to a young centre half, it is difficult to fix. I think he has done reasonably well in his recent performances. Strangely enough, our poor league position could help him as he might get a good run of PL games with little at stake.


Bellerin is still an excellent player who has been affected by a few injuries, but mostly a total lack of support. When he and Walcott played together last season, they were an excellent partnership til Theo got his injury. Sure his form fluctuates, and the team's struggles have affected him, but when people say he's no good, they are clearly too stupid to be encouraged to offer further opinion.

Iwobi has a lot of gifts, but a lot of flaws. His position is still a question mark. He was never super hyped as a kid. He shouldn't play as much as he is in a club of our size, but with him, so much is confidence. His shooting technique is poor though.

Holding is a player who made a MASSIVE step up - and like most young centre backs, really needs a senior partner on their game alongside him at times. Parachuting a kid into our defense at the mo is almost cruel, given the total lack of cover they get.

Bellerin would be snapped up a European super club the minute we put him up for sale. Iwobi is a work in progress who is worthy of a squad place, but further down the order, and really needs to work out a best position. Holding is fine as a 4th choice centre-half with the potential to improve, which is what he should be, and probably will be next season.

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Post #484294  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Wengers problem is he always throws the kids in the deep end and then overplays them till their confidence is destroyed. Some will survive like Cesc and Jack if they are strong characters but others will fail.

If you look at the way Ferguson managed young talent and how they were integrated into the first team it's pretty much spot on, never too much too soon.


You do realise that most of Ferguson's youth team players played a LOT more than those you claim have been overplayed.

G Nev - 1st season 27 games in all comps aged 19. 2nd season = Utd's undisputed 1st choice RB (39 games aged 20).
Beckham - 10 games (mostly in the cup as 19 year old) in season 1. Season 2 - 40 games
Giggs - 2 games in 90/91 as a 17 year old. 51 games the following season.
Scholes first two seasons - 25 games, 31 games
P Nev - 34 games then 24
N Butt - 35 games then 41 games.

The truth is literally the polar opposite of what you wrote.

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Post #484295  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:32 am 
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Decaf wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Worthwhile observations. I too think Wenger has changed. He tried to tactically get ahead of the game, but has backed the wrong horse on that one. He didn't seem to realise that to imitate Barcelona but with elements of the old Arsenal style, you need really really really excellent footballers, and even Cesc, for his precocious genius, is not a Iniesta, Messi or Xavi. Subsequently in recent years he's tried to re-jig the team, but instead has given us a lack of any discernible identity or pattern to our play.

I also think he has lost some of his mojo as a person. There is a reason we have a retirement age. No matter how sharp the mind, how much one has learnt, there are certain qualities, such as physical energy and an ability to really connect with young people that do in general diminish over time, and it is much easier to see that from the outside.

Most of us have had a parent age and struggle to adjust to the fact that certain things that were almost second nature get slightly more difficult, long before any significant physical decline. There are certain things I can't do quite as well as I did when I joined SGF 18 years ago, for all the knowledge and wisdom and expertise I may have gained. In the same time, it is inevitable that Wenger has gained in some areas and lost in others.


Wenger sold Vieira and tried to redesign the team around Cesc. It didn't quite work. Why not? Because Cesc wasn't quite good enough? Was Cesc really not as good as Xavi? Or because we had horrible luck with injuries in that period? We look back and try to find reasons, but I think a lot of what happen in sport is luck. More specifically, bad luck.

As for your second point: I completely agree. A lot of the old zest and zing had gone and I don't even miss it. If I had anything like Wenger's money I would retire immediately and fade away gracefully. Evidently Wenger is more a 'Rage, rage against the dying of the light', rather than a "bring the sundowners and turn down the sheets" sort of bloke.


Injuries and lack of funds were a factor, but no....Cesc wasn't as good as Xavi, who is the best passer of through balls I have seen in my life, bar perhaps Dennis. Also, lets face it, Barca were great, but most of their domination is down to Messi. Playing that kind of football is a lot easier with a generational genius. The guy isn't a striker, but by the age of 30 he has 600 career goals and about half as many assists. To think, his family were in discussion with Wenger when we got Cesc....

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Post #484296  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:34 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Man U need 2 goals in 15 mins or they're out.
As I write Sevilla get their second. Looks all over now.
Mourinho's negative tactics haven't worked.


How much has Mourinho spent there? £500m ish in 2 years, on an already expensively assembled squad? Such a terrible shame his tactics no longer work at the top level either...

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Post #484297  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:35 am 

lomekian wrote:
Even Bernard's stance on Ljungberg has softened!

Be fair, he left donkey's years ago so what's the point in talking about him these days? I don't think my main point was that extreme anyway. I called him mediocre, and I stand by that as I think some, maybe even many, grossly over-rate him. He was a good finisher but was otherwise fairly ordinary. He's a bit like Walcott in a way. Namely, largely dependent on one big strength. Pace with Theo, finishing with. Ljungberg.

Believe it or not, I consider him a legend, albeit a relatively mediocre player in many ways.


  
 
 
Post #484298  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:42 am 
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Rich wrote:

Man U bought Sanchez to try to solve a problem they didn’t have and it’s made them worse.



I think this is very pertinent. Arsenal are lucky they didn't want to let him go to City. What is surprising is that so far he's been appreciably worse in terms of output for Utd than he was for us, even this season when he didn't want to be here. And Mkhitaryan, who is clearly not the same level of player in terms of potential impact has been involved in more goals this season as primary assist maker or scorer, despite the fact he was mostly a sub at utd.

Martial on the left was giving Utd SO much more than Sanchez has.

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Post #484299  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:47 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
dec wrote:
His press conference will be enough for a large number of the fans to turn on Mourinho.

"I've sat in this chair twice before, with Porto - Man Utd out, with Real Madrid - Man Utd out, so this is nothing new for this football club."

He really doesn't give a *%^@.

No he doesn't care, but the good thing is that if they keep him for another year he will start personal attacks on players and spend a lot more money hopefully without a trophy. Don't want them to win the FA Cup. Hope he brings total chaos to their club.


There's a chance!

Sánchez signed a 4½ year contract with United to June 2022 that is worth around £600,000 a week once a £20 million signing on fee, bonuses and image rights are factored in. It makes him comfortably the highest paid player in Premier League history. Total contract value £140m.

Other players agents are knocking on the door.

Wouldn't it be great if he was as disaster for them!

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Post #484300  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:48 am 
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Rich wrote:
Nzonzi very good again for Seville tonight, always impressed with him and would definitely take him in our team


Its amazing how much he has improved as a player since leaving Sam Allerdyce behind!

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Post #484301  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:51 am 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Even Bernard's stance on Ljungberg has softened!

Be fair, he left donkey's years ago so what's the point in talking about him these days? I don't think my main point was that extreme anyway. I called him mediocre, and I stand by that as I think some, maybe even many, grossly over-rate him. He was a good finisher but was otherwise fairly ordinary. He's a bit like Walcott in a way. Namely, largely dependent on one big strength. Pace with Theo, finishing with. Ljungberg.

Believe it or not, I consider him a legend, albeit a relatively mediocre player in many ways.


Wasn't actually aiming that at you...more a memory of days past. Actually though, you prove my point. Donkey's years ago. TG is suggesting Wenger is exactly the same now as then. 21 and a half years is a LONG time....

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Post #484302  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:59 am 

lomekian wrote:
Sánchez signed a 4½ year contract with United to June 2022 that is worth around £600,000 a week once a £20 million signing on fee, bonuses and image rights are factored in. It makes him comfortably the highest paid player in Premier League history. Total contract value £140m.

I'm sure the AST said last week that Özil's new deal is worth 200m Euros. That's just over £177m.


  
 
 
Post #484303  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:28 am 
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Professor Stephen Hawking has died, aged 76

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/pro ... 4z4c4.html

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Post #484304  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:37 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
No he doesn't care, but the good thing is that if they keep him for another year he will start personal attacks on players and spend a lot more money hopefully without a trophy. Don't want them to win the FA Cup. Hope he brings total chaos to their club.


There's a chance!

Sánchez signed a 4½ year contract with United to June 2022 that is worth around £600,000 a week once a £20 million signing on fee, bonuses and image rights are factored in. It makes him comfortably the highest paid player in Premier League history. Total contract value £140m.

Other players agents are knocking on the door.

Wouldn't it be great if he was as disaster for them!

It would take me a while to recover because I would be laughing so hard.

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Post #484305  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:41 am 
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I would not be shocked if Chelsea beat Barca in tomorrows game.

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Post #484306  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Decaf wrote:

Wenger sold Vieira and tried to redesign the team around Cesc. It didn't quite work. Why not? Because Cesc wasn't quite good enough? Was Cesc really not as good as Xavi? Or because we had horrible luck with injuries in that period? We look back and try to find reasons, but I think a lot of what happen in sport is luck. More specifically, bad luck.

As for your second point: I completely agree. A lot of the old zest and zing had gone and I don't even miss it. If I had anything like Wenger's money I would retire immediately and fade away gracefully. Evidently Wenger is more a 'Rage, rage against the dying of the light', rather than a "bring the sundowners and turn down the sheets" sort of bloke.


Injuries and lack of funds were a factor, but no....Cesc wasn't as good as Xavi, who is the best passer of through balls I have seen in my life, bar perhaps Dennis. Also, lets face it, Barca were great, but most of their domination is down to Messi. Playing that kind of football is a lot easier with a generational genius. The guy isn't a striker, but by the age of 30 he has 600 career goals and about half as many assists. To think, his family were in discussion with Wenger when we got Cesc....

I agree. Xavi was superb. My point (and obviously Wengers thinking) was that Cesc was at that level. Also, if Xavi hadn't been around and Cesc had played with Iniesta and Messi in his formative years instead of being allowed to become the prima donna at Arsenal, he might have approached Xavi's level of effectiveness.

(The only reason I mentioned Xavi is that it would be ridiculous to compare Cesc to Iniesta let alone Messi ... )

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Post #484307  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 am 
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How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense


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I think it was Rich who posted about Man Utd fans and Sanchez. Frankly, Man Utd fans are spoiled kids. If you don't come in and are Pele, they have an issue. Sanchez is fine, he'll figure out Mourinho's system. They got him for nothing. Shouldn't be complaining about anything. Can't take Man Utd fans opinion on anything regarding their squad because they are what you guys call 'blinkered' .

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Post #484309  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:14 am 
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So the off season nonsense has started.
http://metro.co.uk/2018/03/12/arsenal-r ... s-7382377/

Lets get rid of our youngest defender to fund buying whom ? 3 players for 50mil.

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Post #484310  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:17 am 
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would any of you lot go to the World Cup in Russia this summer? :laughing7:

I wouldn't

Surely it's a recipe for absolute disaster that's about to happen


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Post #484311  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:35 am 

TOP GUN wrote:
How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense

Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?


  
 
 
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Bernard wrote:
Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?


Not for much longer ...

Arsenal defender Per Mertesacker reveals he never wants to play again as he announces retirement:
'My body is finished... I would rather sit in the stands and then I will feel free'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... again.html


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Post #484313  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:04 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense

Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?

No.




(Doesn’t require an explanation)


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Post #484314  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:30 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense

Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?


He is. Per strikes me as exactly the person you want in such a role. In fact, I can see him as a future manager of the club.

I'm not so sure about Adams, regardless of his talent and passion as a player. Also, certain of our ex-players seem to have axes to grind.

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Post #484315  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:31 am 
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Bernard wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Sánchez signed a 4½ year contract with United to June 2022 that is worth around £600,000 a week once a £20 million signing on fee, bonuses and image rights are factored in. It makes him comfortably the highest paid player in Premier League history. Total contract value £140m.

I'm sure the AST said last week that Özil's new deal is worth 200m Euros. That's just over £177m.

That figure for Özil couldn't be accurate. He signed a three and a half year deal. £177m would equate to close to £1m per week. Most of the press reported that Özil's deal puts him as the second highest player in the PL, but quite a bit behind Sanchez, whose deal is absolutely enormous.

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Post #484316  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?

No.




(Doesn’t require an explanation)

It does.

If Martin Keown is Arsenal through and through (despite his travels) why not Per?

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Post #484317  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:36 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
would any of you lot go to the World Cup in Russia this summer? :laughing7:

I wouldn't

Surely it's a recipe for absolute disaster that's about to happen

A friend of mine was at the England v Russia game in the Euros. He is Irish but was over in France for 10 days so went to that match and one of Ireland's games. He said the aftermath out on the streets was very scary. Black vans with blacked out windows would pull up. Six or seven Russians jumped out and starting kicking the shite out of the nearest supporters for a few minutes. Back into the van and onto the next street. It was completely orchestrated.

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Post #484318  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:45 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
How can you have Per Mertesacker taking a role at the academy but choose to not utilise the experience of Tony Adams or Martin Keown who are arsenal through and through. It just makes zero sense

I can see why he would do it. Keown is a TV man. I think ex-players should do one or the other or else confine their media work to other leagues or international matches. There is a conflict of interest in working for Arsenal during the week and then criticising the club on national television on a Saturday night.

As for Adams, his coaching career hasn't exactly been impressive. He also comes across as a pretty odd sort. Young players might look up to him, but it doesn't mean that they would gain a huge amount from him.

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Post #484319  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:46 am 
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dec wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
would any of you lot go to the World Cup in Russia this summer? :laughing7:

I wouldn't

Surely it's a recipe for absolute disaster that's about to happen

A friend of mine was at the England v Russia game in the Euros. He is Irish but was over in France for 10 days so went to that match and one of Ireland's games. He said the aftermath out on the streets was very scary. Black vans with blacked out windows would pull up. Six or seven Russians jumped out and starting kicking the shite out of the nearest supporters for a few minutes. Back into the van and onto the next street. It was completely orchestrated.


the government and football association must be really concerned.

I can just see thousands of drunken England fans rocking up singing songs about the spy and no surrender(all the usual guff) and what could occur could be very serious.


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Post #484320  Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:52 am 

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Isn't Mertesacker Arsenal through and through as well?

No.

(Doesn’t require an explanation)

I'd say it does require an explanation. I see Mertesacker as Arsenal through and through, even if he wasn't at Adams and Keown's level as a player. Retiring from playing doesn't change that.


  
 
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