Once again Wenger cocks it up, he says he wants to give the young players a chance to show what they can do, Willock gets 15 minutes, Nelson just a minute absolutely rediculous.Wenger out!!!

Another Groundhog Day at the Emirates or anywhere else these days . Slow possessional non risk football , reluctant to shoot , sh***t at the back .
Our goal ruined the game , they knew they had the tall order of scoring two and wanted to preserve the win , so they weren't as adventurous .second half .

Picking our man of the match would be tough .

Mrs Kiwi says " but at least Arsenal have won a few cups in the last few years " ...too which I retorted ..... "Yes it's like sitting through thirty eight Rolling Stones concerts to see one good one .

6 home defeats in a row in our last 6 European knock out games at home. Shockingly bad

The point I’m making is I don’t think our 3rd and 4th choice CB are good enough for the prem full stop. At least Gabriel was good enough for the prem.
Arsenal should have a 3rd and 4th choice CB who are better than Brighton, Swansea and Huddersfield’s CBs - any of them. If our first choice are supposed to get us CL there shouldn’t be such a drop off.

Wilshere played in the 10 role and he didn’t have a good game. I think he’s much better coming from a deeper position, he’s never really convinced as a 10.

Wenger out?

.
Anyone with a modicum of self awareness viewing these cr*p performances , hearing the booes wouldn't write it off as the voices of ungrateful no nothing disgruntled "little people'

....... and take steps to correct the problem , check the fan sites , ask someone who's opinion you respect .

Jeeez ..my eight year old kids have stood behind me and made suggestions which have been considerably better than what I was doing .

When you think you know it all you are doomed .

I’m so incredibly bored of wenger and the players come out after a defeat and saying we lacked concentration, composure, efficiency, we were complacent etc.....following this is usually something along the lines of we must bounce back in our next game blah blah.

It happens so often it has lost any meaning. And if these are the same kind of team talks wenger gives the players then I’m not surprised they have no effect on how we play and that we never learn.

I can’t remember the last time I really enjoyed watching arsenal play

Was at the game tonight. Worst performance I have seen live since the dog days at the end of George Graham's time. No shape, no pattern, no structure, very little desire from some, but mostly just being outcoached by Graham Potter.

Players like Bellerin & Iwobi, despite mixed games at least showed the desire to take the team forward, but too many just didn't try hard enough. Jack wasn't fit and was out on his feet after an hour. Maitland-Niles doesn't know what his role is. Welbeck is like an anti-striker at the mo...if his work rate when we are in possession matched his work rate when we aren't, he'd be much more effective.

First half was just appalling awful on almost every count. No movement going forwards, so so static. Never more than one person showing for the ball or making runs. It was terribly disjointed AND lazy.

The club, despite positive moves, is as we all know, just treading water until the dead man walks.

Much as the club is going nowhere, Arsenal Fan TV can eff right off. Exploiting the stupid and the angry to make Robbie $$$$$$$. The distribution of the the fake Bellerin thing by so many of their regulars was a new low.

Bad goalkeeping too

Now if you don't rate Bellerin, you really are mental. Iwobi has poor decision making at times and bad shooting technique. Welbeck is a an ex striker who is only good off the bench or out wide. Xhaka is prone to massive mental lapses and has no pace. They are all fair to be criticised. Hector is routinely one of our better players, and tonight was actually good...the second he got some support on his flank he set up a goal. He is totally exposed by the manager, often having to man the entire right flank on his own all game. There is a reason City bid for him, Barca have been trying to unsettle him and there are rumours about Real Madrid. He is one of the few players in the squad we should fight tooth and nail to keep.

Apart from Stan, they've all known that for at least a year.

Jack didn't look fit, and frankly no longer has the burst of acceleration to play as a 10 unless the rest of the midfield is providing much more control than our current lot did. He was probably our best player in the first half, but from 60 mins onwards he was totally out of gas and should have come off 10 mins sooner.

Wilshere is fine as a squad player in a better team. Injuries have robbed him of what might have made him a nailed on first teamer.

Welbeck is ok as a sub or on the flanks, but simply lacks the movement and goal hunger of a striker. Only reason I've not given up on him is the extent of his injuries and the fact that he can make a good contribution when confident and match fit...but at present is neither.

Chambers - Much better in a back three, but as the manager has abandoned that, hard to see a future for him in a back four. Needs to be smarter or nimbler.

The most frustrating thing for me. Once we got the goal back, we should have been looking to bring kids on, but the manager's conservatism kicked in again, even though Jack in particular was out on his feet from the hour mark.

The cup final last year?

I missed the game, and thankfully did. Just when you think we won't get any worse, we did. Wenger out!

I like Gabriel. At least he has the drive and tenacity. And guts and better composure than Chambers or Holding.

We can probably make it 7 in the next round

He is too slow to come from depth & join an attack IMO. Then to move back it just does not happen.

He is too slow to come from depth & join an attack IMO. Then to move back it just does not happen.

I accept that at times an 8yo child might have more sense than you. I think your wife may confirm this.

Bait in the water ....waiting...waiting.

If you just think about Arsenal & Wenger you will end up in a mental institution.

I'd include the semis in that.

Obviously the proverb / bible quotation "out of the mouths of babes " has yet to reach North Queensland

... can remember two ocassions in particular both Granty Boy and the youngest son have left me gobsmacked coming up with something I hadn't seen . never be too proud to listen to anyone .

Win or lose on Sunday Arsene will make the announcement he is quitting at the end of this season ....... mark my words

Arsenal have completely lost any form of identity during games, I have no idea what the plan is, what are we trying to show as our strengths, what is the plan to win the game.

Past arsenal teams have always had an identity even if they didn’t have success. I look back to the era with Fabregas, nasri, hleb, rosicky, denilson, diary, clichy, vermaelen, eboue etc....at least these guys looked like natural and talented footballers, generally in terms of technique, first touch, passing, movement they were a class above their opponents - there were obviously weaknesses but it was still enjoyable to watch.

I look at maybe half of our first team squad and just think they are just not comfortable with a football at their feet

I watched ITV's Europa League highlights programme on getting home from the game last night. The pundits were Roy Keane and Lee Dixon. Keane actually described Wilshere as the most over-rated player on the planet. I'm not saying I agree with that, but Keane's assessment of Wilshere made me giggle because of its savagery.

I still say the current state of Arsenal has less to do with the players than the manager. With Arsenal's squad this season, no additions or deletions save the actual ins and outs that happened in January, I firmly believe Arsenal would have more (quite a few more) points on the board than we have if Pochettino was our manager. Well, forget the likes of Pochettino, Klopp, Guardiola and Mourinho; I think we would with quite a few other managers including Allardyce and Wagner.

The thing is both showed early promise , as many others have ( even Iwobi) , but when you have a recurring culture that doesn’t do game management or real accountability , or encourage vocal rollicking ; or leadership , or delegation to others who have those qualities, is it any wonder that these players regress? As has been said many times this will go on and on for as long as the club allows it too in ever decreasing circles .

Let’s cut to the chase , some on here can talk about the manager not having the budget years ago ( personally I feel , there’s been a smoke & mirrors act there too , but let’s put that aside) but the on the pitch issues outlined above are exactly those identified by many of us who were vehemently Wenger out back as far as circa 2011 , and were told we were over reacting , it’s just now they are more glaring, and there are more better teams around to stop us getting away with it, and now even more of the rubbish teams can turn us over

This is why many of us are now arsenal fans pretty much in name only , and the only thing that keeps us clinging to that status is this misplaced sense of fan loyalty that is inbuilt through growing up from 7/8 years old

The next two games against against city will be interesting, as arsenal will be underdogs , and the players have shown in recent times that they can get themselves up for these big cup games, a win Sunday wouldn’t surprise ( although for the long term good of the club , maybe a Wembley tanking would be helpful, at the very least it would piss Wenger off ), I expect arsenal to get something out of one of the two games though, maybe a draw in the league game?

The next real barometer will be be when the delicate snowflakes come down here to sussex by the sea Sunday week, Brighton have been playing well in recent weeks and picking up results , and with ulloa’s return and the new signing Locadia have more goal options, I’ve been telling brighton fans that if they go at arsenal in a sensible way, there is a good chance they will turn them over , although Hughton is a conservative coach by nature ( much as we love him in these parts) and the fear is they will defend deep and get picked off. Much will depend on the vital Swansea game at the Amex tomorrow as to how brighton approach the arsenal game.

If after the game he announces this is his last season you will have to change your handle to ‘the oracle’. Do you think we will win. I would not be surprised if we get to penalties in this game. Man C are not in a good patch. It will be important for us to be defensively sound. That will test us.

Your first paragraph hits the nail on the head. Players are Wengerised after joining Arsenal. I'd rate Monreal, Giroud and Koscielny as the last three players who definitely improved after arriving. Sanchez and Özil were already world stars. But of those three, Monreal was the most recent signing and he joined in January 2013. That's five years ago now. Youngsters coming into the team from the youth set up like Bellerin and Iwobi are worse now than when they became first teamers. As you say, players regress. That won't change until the old buffoon finally buggers off. I've said all this before and I'll say it again. It's much less to do with the players than the manager. Much, much less.

EDIT: I left your second and third paragraphs because they also raise valid points.

If the football gods said if you win the cup final you will get a revenge thrashing in the league game, I'd take it with pleasure.

Worse that some of our gutless champions league games in the early 2000s, or that dreadful UEFA Cup loss where Petit played like a *%^@?

One gets the sense that with Wenger sides its always been a problem that we don't know what to do when we are ahead of the game (including drawing against teams we think are better than us). Instead of putting the boot in we stagnate. That 'should we shouldn't we' mentality is fatal when we are shaky at the back.

You can't blame the players for going onto the field without a clear strategy. You also can't blame the players when they regress en masse when they come to a certain club. *Someone* if overthinking things and creating uncertainty in the players minds.

You'd think that 3 nil up at home against Osterlund the mentality would be 'lets see if we can get to double figures' Entertain the crowd and give a few of the players who need a boost the experience of getting a big win. But no that would be too straightforward for our professor.

Spot on.

Quite right normally. But right now I really dont care. But I probably will by Sunday. City losing is always good, especially to weak mid-table sides.

At times?

I would have said yes we can win , because we make a habit of producing a reasonable performance after a ton of abject displays .

However Lacazette is injured , we've sold both Sanchez and Giroud , if we rely on Welbeck upfront we are doomed .

Will we use Aubameyang's full potential ...I doubt it .. we just can't do the fast counter attack or the accuracy of the pass he thrives on

They won't want a repeat of the Wigan fiasco .

We'll get slaughtered and I wont be laughing like I was today because I detest Man City for what they stand for .

I'll have to leave that three week old wildebeest carcass to the vultures and hyenas .

Going to read Robert Ruarks 'Uhuru ' ..... last read it about 1970 .

Your first para is the key. A lot easier to look natural in possession when you've got some idea of what you are trying to achieve or the team shape. Either the coaching has got worse or too many players are cowards

AC Milan

Their no Ostersund

I'm happy with Milan. It will feel like a proper european tie, we will have to play our first 11 and the crowd will be more up for it.