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Post #480001  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:01 am 
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Exiled wrote:
DHD - I wonder if you could tell me how sound these thoughts are.

There was a fire regs expert on R4 yesterday talking about why there wouldn't have been a central alarm system fo the whole block. He said something to the effect of this would have led to more false alarms and that would end up with people disabling the alarms but that there should have been a floor by floor system instead. Does that seem right to you?


Morning Ex

It does sound right. In multi-tenanted buildings, one of the problems with Fire Alarm systems and all the paraphernalia that come with them - break-glass call points, extinguishers etc - is vandalism and mis-use. It happens. It's also one of the reasons that sprinkler systems aren't fitted everywhere.

Again, a single-floor alarm fits with the overall fire strategy of compartmentation. The theory is -
was - that there should be no reason to evacuate anywhere but the floor or flat where the fire has broken out. Unless it's your room or your flat that's on fire, you're supposed to stay where you are. Clearly, that strategy doesn't deal with what happened at Grenfell where all the rooms on every floor were set ablaze from the outside and almost simultaneously. The effect was similar to an Hiroshima-style atomic device going off - a super-heated fireball outside every window. It isn't obvious what sort of fire strategy could have coped with that.

On your earlier point, I’ve no wish to be pedantic and I’m certainly not making any excuses for the building owners or their management team, but we need a bit of perspective here, please. The prime reason for cladding these buildings is to improve their thermal performance and to replace 40-year-old windows. In doing so, the buildings’ outward appearances must change and it isn’t unreasonable to try to make them look as good as possible. These facelift programmes have been rolled out all over the country to upgrade what’s left of our affordable housing stock, making them easier to heat and cheaper to run. It's not just tall buildings either but involves terraces and bungalows as well. So far, the programme has been perceived as a good thing that enhances Tenants' living conditions.


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Post #480002  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:21 am 
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Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that in detail DHD. Much appreciated.

On the cladding point I guess it comes down to whether choices were made because of appearance or because of effect. The quotes in this would suggest appearance was the main driving factor in the choices made. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 89951.html

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Post #480003  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:42 am 
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The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

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Post #480004  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:49 am 
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Exiled wrote:
Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that in detail DHD. Much appreciated.

On the cladding point I guess it comes down to whether choices were made because of appearance or because of effect. The quotes in this would suggest appearance was the main driving factor in the choices made. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 89951.html


The cladding system used here is termed 'rain screen'. It's a composite system built up with different manufacturers' products overlaid and fixed on a metal framing system with a free-draining cavity between them. In simple terms, the insulating material is fixed to the existing wall and then an outer layer is added which doesn't have much technical purpose other than to keep the weather off the insulating material - i.e. to act as a rain screen. There's a gap between the two layers to allow any rain that gets around the edges of the outer panel to drain away. Apart from being rain proof, the major function of the outer layer is to create a visual effect - to look good. All sorts of colours, textures and patterns are available.

It seems that in this case, the cavity between the two layers has functioned as a chimney to accelerate and super-heat the combustion gasses - the 'stack' effect. It's the same principle as a bunsen burner; it's all well understood. To remove this risk, the design would (should) have included cavity barriers at regular horizontal and vertical intervals. The barriers are usually made of a compressible incombustible material that's wedged in place so that the draught is cut off. One of the major points of the investigation will be to establish whether these cavity barriers were correctly installed.

I haven't seen a definitive specification either of the outer skin or the insulating layer so it's difficult to comment on the respective levels of flammability involved here, but all cladding products are categorised in terms of the materials' reaction to heat - the ability to resist combustion and propensity to spread flames.

It's possible to speculate that the panels - outer and/or inner - may have reached such a temperature that they burned their way past/through the barrier. Regardless of classification, just about anything will burn if it gets hot enough.


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Post #480005  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:53 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

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Post #480006  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:06 am 
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dec wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

He only owes 14 mil - hardly worth bothering about. Hope they seize his house for starters.

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Post #480007  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:33 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Thinking about it, some might say bubbling, May's call for a Public Inquiry needs to be given a big boot. She should be reminded how long The Hillsboro Inquiry took and how the result of it proved nothing.

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

On this point I hope TG agrees with me for a change

Indeed. Commissions of Inquiry can be very effective, but they are often a way of booting for touch. Get it into row XX is the mentality. The ones we have here are run entirely by lawyers who have no expertise on the issue. So you have a lot of people coming in and testifying on something like whether higher education should be free-free, then the lawyers go off and make a decision.

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Post #480008  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
dec wrote:
Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

He only owes 14 mil - hardly worth bothering about. Hope they seize his house for starters.

I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

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Post #480009  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
dec wrote:
We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.

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Post #480010  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

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Post #480011  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:00 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

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Post #480012  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

I'll join the fishing expedition!

Anyone who thinks Kroenke is more odious than Usmanov because they don't like the formers involvement in Arsenal are either ignorant or completely without a functioning moral compass.


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Post #480013  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
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With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.


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Post #480014  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.


Wasn't Sanchez done as well on the Spanish tax thingy. Their authorities don't mess around. We should take a leaf out of their book

I'd offer him a 2 year deal to be honest, we'd have to put up with his cuntiness and preening but theres no doubt he's a talent. Would at least bring some amusement after Sanchez is gone.

Just imagine the images of Ronaldo losing his *%^@ on the pitch after we ship a 2 goal lead versus palace etc because Wenger can't defend.That's comedy you can't put a price on


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Post #480015  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Decaf wrote:
No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

I'll join the fishing expedition!

Anyone who thinks Kroenke is more odious than Usmanov because they don't like the formers involvement in Arsenal are either ignorant or completely without a functioning moral compass.

By stopping Kroenke getting enough shares to delist Arsenal, Usmanov is doing the club some good. By giving Wenger so much power that even with a split board he gives Wenger a two year extension without any loss of his huge control, I consider Kroenke to be doing the club damage. Bollocks to any self-perceived tarty moral compass.

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Post #480016  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 pm 
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david.d wrote:
With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.

Seconded


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Post #480017  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:30 pm 
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DHD, some good explanations of the factors at play in the Tower tragedy. I've seen a lot of wild, sensationalist speculating. Your posts outline the possibilities but no one knows for sure until the enquiry has been completed.
May I ask what your line of work is? I work as an architect in London so feel pretty well informed, the industry is frantically reviewing all similar schemes, phones are ringing non stop.
I think legislation will have to change.


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Post #480018  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.
I don't like Ronaldo but I imagine it has come as quite a shock to him and Real Madrid to find the Spanish state has the effronetry to expect them to meet their tax obligations.

The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

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Post #480019  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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What an odious bitch theresa may is.
Where is her compassion, she rightly met the emergency services at the site of the tragedy who all deserve our enormous credit but what about meeting some of the people who have been affected by this horrific terrible tragedy. Didnt they also deserve some of her time. No she scuttled away like the bitch she is.
Fair play to Corbyn and Khan who knew the hostile atmosphere they would be entering but they did it anyway.
Corbyn is growing in stature.


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Post #480020  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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david.d wrote:
With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.


And I'm surprised, apart from Liverpool, no other club is interested in Salah. Better than Mahrez in my opinion.


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Post #480021  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Good point Goonie
On another point i really hope this is not another summer where we are at the whim of unsettled players waiting for them to show their hand before we conduct our major transfer business.
Really cant afford another start to the season where we are unprepared.
Lets get our business done early.


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Post #480022  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:16 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

Would you expect him to when he's not offered a place on the board? If I had Usmanov's money and shares but was excluded from the board, then I wouldn't.

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Post #480023  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

It's disgusting... footballers, I *%^@** *%^@ them. Shower of *%^@.


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Post #480024  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:56 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.


Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n*gger you come across " .


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Post #480025  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:16 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Wrote a porno? I'm still starring in them when the hip allows.

Did you not the O on the end of the word ..... he's not talking about the trading in of your old stamp album and lawnmower for cash to fund that day trip to Brighton .

I'm amazed at this continued talk about Lacazette ...any Froggie game I've seen [ not many I admit ] Giroud has started ........ is he such an upgrade on Olivier ?

Giroud departing and Walcott staying doesn't make sense in this corner of the planet


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Post #480026  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:22 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.


Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n***** you come across " .

You are correct Kiwi. Most disasters/WHS incidents are a combination of a number of failures or failure to understand how different parts interact together. Your experience on mining sites would have made you aware of that and I have seen it from another angle. Therefore one persons failure is only a contributing factor and not the final factor that caused the incident. Very difficult to sheet home blame to one individual.

That is unlike Arsenal FC where Wenger wants to be the 'supreme being' and therefore is fully responsible for failures.

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Post #480027  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:25 pm 
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david.d wrote:
What an odious bitch theresa may is.
Where is her compassion, she rightly met the emergency services at the site of the tragedy who all deserve our enormous credit but what about meeting some of the people who have been affected by this horrific terrible tragedy. Didnt they also deserve some of her time. No she scuttled away like the bitch she is.
Fair play to Corbyn and Khan who knew the hostile atmosphere they would be entering but they did it anyway.
Corbyn is growing in stature.

Why would they be hostile to Corbyn .... ? No-one blames him for the tragedy ... I'm not suggesting he is not caring but he accumulates "brownie points" at the same time

What would be the reaction if she did meet with survivors ....... a lynching


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Post #480028  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:39 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n***** you come across " .

You are correct Kiwi. Most disasters/WHS incidents are a combination of a number of failures or failure to understand how different parts interact together. Your experience on mining sites would have made you aware of that and I have seen it from another angle. Therefore one persons failure is only a contributing factor and not the final factor that caused the incident. Very difficult to sheet home blame to one individual.

That is unlike Arsenal FC where Wenger wants to be the 'supreme being' and therefore is fully responsible for failures.


Quite true Gaz ....as an example I worked on a BHP job in Port Hedland ... riggers hooked up a five ton valve with SOFT slings ... it went up 48 stories weaving back and forth in the breeze ; when it was lowered into the reactor it cut through one sling , tipped and plummeted from 200 feet bouncing off columns and handrails like a demented pin ball .

The union blamed John Holland the contractor and we went on strike for three days .

In the pandemonium that followed no-one thought to mention the riggers should have used chains or wire ropes .

We were all presented with commemorative polo shirts embalzoned with a five star safety award about three weeks later .

:laughing7: :laughing7: Good to see you giving Old Man's ulcer a little work over .


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Post #480029  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:03 am 
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A Leaked Picture Of Alexis Sanchez Drops Major Hint About His Future

http://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-transfers-a-leaked-picture-of-alexis-sanchez-drops-major-hint-about-his-future-20170616

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Post #480030  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Exiled wrote:

Them not being boxed in was one of the (many) complaints the residents had raised previously.

It came out last night that the cladding used was 5k less for the whole block could have been fireproof. Five thousand pounds in a multi-million refit. Also the cladding wasn't intended to improve the lives of the residents, it was done to improve the view from local private blocks.

There has also been talk about where the death toll is going to end with people seeming to suggest it could easily reach three figures when the building is cleared.


The tories are suppressing the way the media is reporting this. Everyone in the local area believes the death toll could reach between 100-150 large. Apparently many in the top 3 floors had no chance. Surely at this stage there is a strong indication of the size of the tragedy.

Lily Allen made the point the way the media are reporting this incident is being micro managed. She might not be wrong

.... and this geezer is spot on.

https://twitter.com/jamzldn/status/875345120941551616


More likely is that they can't get to the bodies on the top floors as conditions are very dangerous. Don't forget they're not looking for bodies but evidence that there were bodies. All they will find in most cases is ash. I heard on the first day that temps could be around 1000 deg centigrade. If true they have a near I'm possible job.

On LBC a resident of a nearby property said he saw them removing body bags inbthe early hours of the morning yesterday.


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Post #480031  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:38 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
david.d wrote:
What an odious bitch theresa may is.
Where is her compassion, she rightly met the emergency services at the site of the tragedy who all deserve our enormous credit but what about meeting some of the people who have been affected by this horrific terrible tragedy. Didnt they also deserve some of her time. No she scuttled away like the bitch she is.
Fair play to Corbyn and Khan who knew the hostile atmosphere they would be entering but they did it anyway.
Corbyn is growing in stature.

Why would they be hostile to Corbyn .... ? No-one blames him for the tragedy ... I'm not suggesting he is not caring but he accumulates "brownie points" at the same time

What would be the reaction if she did meet with survivors ....... a lynching


Similar thing happened in Cyprus around 5 years ago. Munitions exploded near the countries largest power station and 12/13 were killed. The then President kept away from the place fearing a lynching stoked up by the opposition parties he said out of respect for those mourning. May must have listened to her security team and arranged a visit to congratulate the fire and police services. She now has to dig here self out of a deep hole.

The local Council has been missing and deserve a lot of criticism.


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Post #480032  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:39 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.


Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n*gger you come across " .

Why the use of the 'n' word???
Is that how you describe black people including myself?


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Post #480033  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:23 am 
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warrior wrote:
A Leaked Picture Of Alexis Sanchez Drops Major Hint About His Future

When I clicked on the link a comment said Mbappe was in it as well. If he the young kid or baby? Wouldn't it suggest Giroud is staying also?

Overall, I'm not convinced to be honest. It would mean Puma have gone back to a darker red, which some may like (not me). But I think the brighter red is the stand out memorable thing about the Puma kits, and if they're only going to supply the kits for two more years would they want to change the main thing that makes their kits different and identifiable as Puma (apart from their logo)? It also just doesn't seem a very good photo on a commercial basis. Why have the woman not wearing a kit, the bloke with the extravagant beard in a grey suit and a scarf, other players (presumably they're players) not in kits, and the baby in a kit with Mbappe's head on it? If it is true, I do prefer white socks though.

I suspect the commercial photo from Puma would concentrate on advertising the kit with players, not tracksuits. Having said that, I've not checked such photos from previous years so maybe it's what Puma do. But I've doubts.

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Post #480034  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:07 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
You are correct Kiwi. Most disasters/WHS incidents are a combination of a number of failures or failure to understand how different parts interact together. Your experience on mining sites would have made you aware of that and I have seen it from another angle. Therefore one persons failure is only a contributing factor and not the final factor that caused the incident. Very difficult to sheet home blame to one individual.

That is unlike Arsenal FC where Wenger wants to be the 'supreme being' and therefore is fully responsible for failures.


Quite true Gaz ....as an example I worked on a BHP job in Port Hedland ... riggers hooked up a five ton valve with SOFT slings ... it went up 48 stories weaving back and forth in the breeze ; when it was lowered into the reactor it cut through one sling , tipped and plummeted from 200 feet bouncing off columns and handrails like a demented pin ball .

The union blamed John Holland the contractor and we went on strike for three days .

In the pandemonium that followed no-one thought to mention the riggers should have used chains or wire ropes .

We were all presented with commemorative polo shirts embalzoned with a five star safety award about three weeks later .

:laughing7: :laughing7: Good to see you giving Old Man's ulcer a little work over .

When you are retired it is good just to tweak things at time. I will keep pushing him(OMOH) until there is a few expletives forwarded to me. Just watching the V8s from Hidden Valley.

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Post #480035  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:09 am 
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Bernard wrote:
warrior wrote:
A Leaked Picture Of Alexis Sanchez Drops Major Hint About His Future

When I clicked on the link a comment said Mbappe was in it as well. If he the young kid or baby? Wouldn't it suggest Giroud is staying also?

Overall, I'm not convinced to be honest. It would mean Puma have gone back to a darker red, which some may like (not me). But I think the brighter red is the stand out memorable thing about the Puma kits, and if they're only going to supply the kits for two more years would they want to change the main thing that makes their kits different and identifiable as Puma (apart from their logo)? It also just doesn't seem a very good photo on a commercial basis. Why have the woman not wearing a kit, the bloke with the extravagant beard in a grey suit and a scarf, other players (presumably they're players) not in kits, and the baby in a kit with Mbappe's head on it? If it is true, I do prefer white socks though.

I suspect the commercial photo from Puma would concentrate on advertising the kit with players, not tracksuits. Having said that, I've not checked such photos from previous years so maybe it's what Puma do. But I've doubts.


What's Roy Keane doing in it as well?

http://www.footyheadlines.com/2016/12/a ... e-kit.html


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Post #480036  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:10 am 
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david.d wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n*gger you come across " .

Why the use of the 'n' word???
Is that how you describe black people including myself?

To come to Kiwis defence on this I saw this as him quoting a typical American reaction, not necessarily how he thinks himself.

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Post #480037  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:26 am 
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Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

Would you expect him to when he's not offered a place on the board? If I had Usmanov's money and shares but was excluded from the board, then I wouldn't.
They're biting today!

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Post #480038  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:31 am 
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david.d wrote:
Why the use of the 'n' word??? Is that how you describe black people including myself?
Indeed. Bang out of order.

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Post #480039  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:34 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
david.d wrote:
Why the use of the 'n' word???
Is that how you describe black people including myself?

To come to Kiwis defence on this I saw this as him quoting a typical American reaction, not necessarily how he thinks himself.
Really? Where's the American connection to a debate about a tower block fire in London?

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Post #480040  Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:40 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Would you expect him to when he's not offered a place on the board? If I had Usmanov's money and shares but was excluded from the board, then I wouldn't.
They're biting today!

It's a viewpoint, albeit a very silly one for reasons explained many times before, that you've consistently made over the years. I was simply concerned for your well-being in case you do actually believe it. I suspect you might have done once. But if it was a wind-up this time, I'm pleased.

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