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Supporters Forum
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Author:  Bernard [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I’m hearing Torriera wants out, which if true would explain things.

I get that impression but he’s been our best player for our last few games and Arteta said we miss him when he’s not there.

Are we really going to sell him in January. I suppose we could sign his replacement then let him go. Just seems odd when we need to sign more of a Ramsey Wilshere type than a holding midfielder

Maybe the Torreira out a defensive midfielder in would pay for itself. Looking at his overall stay, he hasn’t been that great. Sure we can all blame Emery. But Emery or not, Torreira hasn’t been that good and the last few games arguably doesn’t change that.

Author:  Bernard [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

dec wrote:
Paul Davis definitely. Lovely footballer.

Viv Anderson. Certainly wasn't under-rated at the time but he is a forgotten man. Outstanding player.

Anderson is the right back in my best ever Arsenal team. As you correctly say, truly outstanding.

Author:  AmericanGooner [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

I scratched my head initially on Edu's job with the club. I thought it was nothing more than taking care of one of our own but he's got an eye for talent.

Author:  kiwipete [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

warrior wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Obviously saying you had it off with three groupies on an away trip to Newcastle is out of the question if you are still married .

As long as the missus never got wind of it, I'd be shouting that from the roof tops.


Hmmmm .... given the way everyone and their dog these days [ except me ] has a cell phone on hand to take pictures of every event
and given that everyone and their dog [ except me ] spends their every waking moment sending messages , checking Facebook , Twitter , Instagram .

I'd say young Rog ; your wife would be able to see her lunatic husband standing on a roof shouting the odds about eight seconds after you'd started .

Author:  kiwipete [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Greeny wrote:
Just thinking about other "Arsenal" greats that are probably best known for their other clubs.
Alan Ball and Pat Jennings spring to mind.
Brian Kidd, although not that great at The Arsenal, Brian Talbot, and his Ipswich team-mate Paul Mariner maybe. Sol was a Gooner, clearly.
Anyone I've forgotten?


Supermac , Charlie Nicholas

Author:  TAFKAEiN [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

kiwipete wrote:
Greeny wrote:
Just thinking about other "Arsenal" greats that are probably best known for their other clubs.
Alan Ball and Pat Jennings spring to mind.
Brian Kidd, although not that great at The Arsenal, Brian Talbot, and his Ipswich team-mate Paul Mariner maybe. Sol was a Gooner, clearly.
Anyone I've forgotten?


Supermac


Ray Kennedy.

Kidd was a major reason we stayed in the top division so, whilst not the kudos of a cup winning goal, maybe more important? And for the same reasons *if* he's included then Jimmy Rimmer has to be.

Author:  kiwipete [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TAFKAEiN wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Supermac , Charlie Nicholas


Ray Kennedy.

Kidd was a major reason we stayed in the top division so, whilst not the kudos of a cup winning goal, maybe more important? And for the same reasons *if* he's included then Jimmy Rimmer has to be.


Using the staying up formula ...... Terry Mancini as well :icon_mrgreen: .

Author:  Rich [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Arteta has decided Nketiah is staying with us for the rest of the season, Arsenal were going to send him to Bristol City but Arteta liked what he saw in training so he stays. All according to Ornstein.

Author:  Bernard [ Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

kiwipete wrote:
Using the staying up formula ...... Terry Mancini as well :icon_mrgreen: .

He scored a winning goal against Wolves but I see him as otherwise contributing greatly to us being in a precarious position for that game.

Author:  AmericanGooner [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

How you train is how you are likely to play.

Author:  gooner7 [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Rich wrote:
Arteta has decided Nketiah is staying with us for the rest of the season, Arsenal were going to send him to Bristol City but Arteta liked what he saw in training so he stays. All according to Ornstein.


I think it is a good decision to let him stay.

Author:  kiwipete [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Using the staying up formula ...... Terry Mancini as well :icon_mrgreen: .

He scored a winning goal against Wolves but I see him as otherwise contributing greatly to us being in a precarious position for that game.

:laughing7: I knew the "Ipcress File " would be switched off as soon as that name got a mention .

We were in this , as you put it " precarious position " before Mancini arrived and results improved after .

Now for the younger viewers ; you and I had this very same debate about eight years ago ,

You got smashed .........

Old Hoy described it as the most one sided contest since John Newcombe beat Wilhelm Bungert in the '67 Wimbledon final 6-2 6-1 6 -1

Author:  Bernard [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
:laughing7: I knew the "Ipcress File " would be switched off as soon as that name got a mention .

We were in this , as you put it " precarious position " before Mancini arrived and results improved after .

Now for the younger viewers ; you and I had this very same debate about eight years ago ,

You got smashed .........

Old Hoy described it as the most one sided contest since John Newcombe beat Wilhelm Bungert in the '67 Wimbledon final 6-2 6-1 6 -1

I don’t believe you’re a liar in any way, shape or form. Just hopelessly wrong about Mancini. In the season before he joined, 1973/74, we finished 10th without him. Then Mancini joined in 1974 and in his first with us, 1974/75, we finished 16th. He was an Arsenal player for two years so left in 1976. In his final season with us, 1975/76, we finished 17th. That does not represent an improvement. It’s a decline. I’m not saying Mancini was the sole reason for that deterioration but I reckon he did play a part in it. Then we got rid of him and the next season following his departure, 1976/77, we improved and finished 8th.

I don’t recall OMOH’s contribution to the debate but if he said what you claim, then in my view he’s mistaken. I see Mancini as useless, utter garbage. I still recall his goal against Wolves and season ticket holders around me refused to celebrate, despite our precarious position, in case it resulted in him staying. Caesar automatically takes one of the central defence places in my worst ever Arsenal team. But Mancini, along with Blockley, is a serious candidate for the other.

Author:  old man of hoy [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Greeny wrote:
Just thinking about other "Arsenal" greats that are probably best known for their other clubs.
Alan Ball and Pat Jennings spring to mind.
Brian Kidd, although not that great at The Arsenal, Brian Talbot, and his Ipswich team-mate Paul Mariner maybe. Sol was a Gooner, clearly.
Anyone I've forgotten?

EDIT: Ashley, of course.
Going back David Herd, Geoff Strong and Ray Kennedy, three of our greatest strikers, who did very well at United and Liverpool respectively. Selling Herd will forever pain me.

Author:  DHD [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

For me, the greatest loss is and always will be Charlie George - almost broke my heart.

It's oft-quoted these days but he really was one of our own.

Author:  DHD [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

When he left, Mancini said (words to the effect) "You don't need me here. You have a young lad in the reserves who's already far better than me".

That was David O'Leary, and he was.

Author:  old man of hoy [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
I dont recall OMOH's contribution to the debate but if he said what you claim, then he is also mistaken...
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Author:  Bernard [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
For me, the greatest loss is and always will be Charlie George - almost broke my heart.

It's oft-quoted these days but he really was one of our own.

Charlie George was a bad one but the loss that I felt the worse over was Brady.

Author:  TAFKAEiN [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Paul Davis in Shoot, today in 1998.

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Author:  grantyboy [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Musing about Messi's records, greatest player ever, tra ra. But I wonder if he would have ever been that if he had played in the PL. La liga is totally dominated by 2 teams with the money equally skewed so I don't understand how a great player, surrounded by some of the best in the world, state funded and playing against weak opposition every week can be unreservedly defined as the best.

Thing that reminded me was the Aguero Henry debate bubbling up. For me it indisputable that Henry was a far better footballer than Aguero. That not even considering the Man City resources to put the team around him.

Author:  grantyboy [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I get that impression but he’s been our best player for our last few games and Arteta said we miss him when he’s not there.

Are we really going to sell him in January. I suppose we could sign his replacement then let him go. Just seems odd when we need to sign more of a Ramsey Wilshere type than a holding midfielder

Maybe the Torreira out a defensive midfielder in would pay for itself. Looking at his overall stay, he hasn’t been that great. Sure we can all blame Emery. But Emery or not, Torreira hasn’t been that good and the last few games arguably doesn’t change that.



Are you 2 on a windup?. Torreira is a fantastic DM and is the most tactically and positionally aware player in the entire team. Watch his movement and positioning if you need evidence. If we sell him in Jan and don't bring in an equally ctactial midefielder then relegation battle it is.

Author:  grantyboy [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I don’t believe you’re a liar in any way, shape or form. Just hopelessly wrong about Mancini. In the season before he joined, 1973/74, we finished 10th without him. Then Mancini joined in 1974 and in his first with us, 1974/75, we finished 16th. He was an Arsenal player for two years so left in 1976. In his final season with us, 1975/76, we finished 17th. That does not represent an improvement. It’s a decline. I’m not saying Mancini was the sole reason for that deterioration but I reckon he did play a part in it. Then we got rid of him and the next season following his departure, 1976/77, we improved and finished 8th.

I don’t recall OMOH’s contribution to the debate but if he said what you claim, then in my view he’s mistaken. I see Mancini as useless, utter garbage. I still recall his goal against Wolves and season ticket holders around me refused to celebrate, despite our precarious position, in case it resulted in him staying. Caesar automatically takes one of the central defence places in my worst ever Arsenal team. But Mancini, along with Blockley, is a serious candidate for the other.


Far be it for me to divert a healthy historical debate but you also thought Clichy was God's green earth while the rest of us thought he could make useless fast runs up the sideline that ended in a total inability to cross and a player generally crap.

Author:  Bernard [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

grantyboy wrote:
Far be it for me to divert a healthy historical debate but you also thought Clichy was God's green earth while the rest of us thought he could make useless fast runs up the sideline that ended in a total inability to cross and a player generally crap.

He was far better than others gave him credit for. So I still consider myself right.

Author:  Bernard [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

grantyboy wrote:
Are you 2 on a windup?. Torreira is a fantastic DM and is the most tactically and positionally aware player in the entire team. Watch his movement and positioning if you need evidence. If we sell him in Jan and don't bring in an equally ctactial midefielder then relegation battle it is.

I’m hearing he wants out. If that’s the case a replacement will have to be found.

Author:  DHD [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
DHD wrote:
For me, the greatest loss is and always will be Charlie George - almost broke my heart.

It's oft-quoted these days but he really was one of our own.

Charlie George was a bad one but the loss that I felt the worse over was Brady.


I can see that Bern and it was indeed horrible to see Brady go, but his departure was signalled from a fair way off and he went to Italy, which was pretty exotic in those days and in some senses, reflected well on The Arse. Charlie George's departure seemed to happen overnight - and to bleeding Derby???

The essential difference though was that Charlie was a proper North London boy. He was a face. A geezer in today's parlance. He was out there frequenting the same venues as we all did in the crowd. You'd see him at places. You'd see him on the night bus - yes, really! And he was tasty, as they'd say. He could handle himself and along with his mates, he wasn't a stranger to 'confrontations'. He was the idol of the North Bank, and not just for his skills and his goals.

Author:  AmericanGooner [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Charlie George's departure seemed to happen overnight - and to bleeding Derby???

The essential difference though was that Charlie was a proper North London boy. He was a face. A geezer in today's parlance. He was out there frequenting the same venues as we all did in the crowd. You'd see him at places. You'd see him on the night bus - yes, really! And he was tasty, as they'd say. He could handle himself and along with his mates, he wasn't a stranger to 'confrontations'. He was the idol of the North Bank, and not just for his skills and his goals.


When I read this I was wondering what type of team Derby had at that time. I knew historically they had some fantastic years.
So when I saw 'bleeding Derby???" it made me wonder. They were pretty good at the time. I can understand not wanting to see a genuine, born and bred local hero go but he was going to a very good team.

Author:  Rich [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

grantyboy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Maybe the Torreira out a defensive midfielder in would pay for itself. Looking at his overall stay, he hasn’t been that great. Sure we can all blame Emery. But Emery or not, Torreira hasn’t been that good and the last few games arguably doesn’t change that.



Are you 2 on a windup?. Torreira is a fantastic DM and is the most tactically and positionally aware player in the entire team. Watch his movement and positioning if you need evidence. If we sell him in Jan and don't bring in an equally ctactial midefielder then relegation battle it is.

Torriera seems to be the most revitalised player since Arteta came. Also, considering Arteta hasn’t changed a huge amount in terms of the actual players he’s picking it wouldn’t be a stretch to say Torriera being picked regularly AND in his proper position is the biggest reason for the upturn in performances

Author:  Rich [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Ornstein tweeting that Arsenal are in advanced talks to sign Kurzawa, the left back from PSG. His contract is up in 6 months but Arsenal want to try to negotiate a loan for a minimal fee before signing on a free in the summer. I know his name, and think he’s the only defender to score a Champions League hat trick, I know he’s 27..... but haven’t ever really seen him play.

Author:  AmericanGooner [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

We were linked to this defender last summer. Maybe media is rehasing old links again. But we're linked with him again. Djene Dakonam


Author:  dec [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

grantyboy wrote:
Musing about Messi's records, greatest player ever, tra ra. But I wonder if he would have ever been that if he had played in the PL. La liga is totally dominated by 2 teams with the money equally skewed so I don't understand how a great player, surrounded by some of the best in the world, state funded and playing against weak opposition every week can be unreservedly defined as the best.

Thing that reminded me was the Aguero Henry debate bubbling up. For me it indisputable that Henry was a far better footballer than Aguero. That not even considering the Man City resources to put the team around him.

Suarez tore the PL to shreds but has been nowhere close to Messi since he joined Barca and that's with Suarez being the centre forward and Messi playing deeper. Ronaldo ripped up the PL but went up a level with Madrid. Messi has scored more goals against the traditional PL top 6 than most strikers playing in the actual PL itself.

Messi would have lorded it in the PL had he played in England.

Author:  dec [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

DHD wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Charlie George was a bad one but the loss that I felt the worse over was Brady.


I can see that Bern and it was indeed horrible to see Brady go, but his departure was signalled from a fair way off and he went to Italy, which was pretty exotic in those days and in some senses, reflected well on The Arse. Charlie George's departure seemed to happen overnight - and to bleeding Derby???

The essential difference though was that Charlie was a proper North London boy. He was a face. A geezer in today's parlance. He was out there frequenting the same venues as we all did in the crowd. You'd see him at places. You'd see him on the night bus - yes, really! And he was tasty, as they'd say. He could handle himself and along with his mates, he wasn't a stranger to 'confrontations'. He was the idol of the North Bank, and not just for his skills and his goals.

George selling Rocky to Leeds.

Author:  kiwipete [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
I don’t believe you’re a liar in any way, shape or form. Just hopelessly wrong about Mancini. In the season before he joined, 1973/74, we finished 10th without him. Then Mancini joined in 1974 and in his first with us, 1974/75, we finished 16th. He was an Arsenal player for two years so left in 1976. In his final season with us, 1975/76, we finished 17th. That does not represent an improvement. It’s a decline. I’m not saying Mancini was the sole reason for that deterioration but I reckon he did play a part in it. Then we got rid of him and the next season following his departure, 1976/77, we improved and finished 8th.

I don’t recall OMOH’s contribution to the debate but if he said what you claim, then in my view he’s mistaken. I see Mancini as useless, utter garbage. I still recall his goal against Wolves and season ticket holders around me refused to celebrate, despite our precarious position, in case it resulted in him staying. Caesar automatically takes one of the central defence places in my worst ever Arsenal team. But Mancini, along with Blockley, is a serious candidate for the other.

You debate like an octopus with a hysterectomy ... slipping and sliding all over the joint , changing colour , tentacles waving in all directions , clouds of smokescreen ink .

Let's state a few facts that you've tried to gloss over . Mancini joined us at the very end of October 1974 our record to date was 2 wins 8 losses 3 draws we were 20th out of 22 .

Now your semi trailer load of dribble and excrement about what the season ticket holders around you thought , whether or not he makes your worst ever Arsenal team , what happened the next year or the year after he left , is irrelevant waffle .

We improved after he arrived ..... Bertie Mee said he was major factor in us avoiding relegation THAT SEASON because he introduced humour to a drab dressing room
; blew away a lot of toxic negativity .

So that about wraps it up ....... fairly easy really ........ NZ 2 Germany 0

Author:  Bernard [ Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Listen to what Charlie George says about Mee if you want to know something about him. Mancini joined on 24 October. We had a poor start but to claim Mancini saved us from relegation is idiotic. He was a terrible player. Awful, dreadful, an embarrassment to the shirt. It’s pathetic to argue otherwise. When it comes to Mancini I give more value to the views of those season ticket holders than I do yours.

What I will give you is he had a good sense of humour. The ITV version of the BBC’s Match of the Day did a player celebrity presented show at Christmas. Was it called The Big Match? Something like that. Mancini was on it one year and he was a far better TV presenter than a player. His two years at the club coincided with our struggles against relegation. A coincidence? I think not as he was partly responsible for it.

Author:  AmericanGooner [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

If we can pull off the Stone transfer, hat's off to the club.

Author:  Gaz from Oz [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Bernard wrote:
Listen to what Charlie George says about Mee if you want to know something about him. Mancini joined on 24 October. We had a poor start but to claim Mancini saved us from relegation is idiotic. He was a terrible player. Awful, dreadful, an embarrassment to the shirt. It’s pathetic to argue otherwise. When it comes to Mancini I give more value to the views of those season ticket holders than I do yours.

What I will give you is he had a good sense of humour. The ITV version of the BBC’s Match of the Day did a player celebrity presented show at Christmas. Was it called The Big Match? Something like that. Mancini was on it one year and he was a far better TV presenter than a player. His two years at the club coincided with our struggles against relegation. A coincidence? I think not as he was partly responsible for it.

No I am with Kiwi on this. Part of the reason we stayed up was Mancini. I believe we would have gone down without him but we will never know.

Author:  TAFKAEiN [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Today in 1970 with Jon Sammels nearly scoring against Chelsea.

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Author:  mcquilkie [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

TAFKAEiN wrote:
Today in 1970 with Jon Sammels nearly scoring against Chelsea.

Wow, what a photo.
By the way, did anyone mention that your Paul Davis Shoot! interview wasn't from 1998, but - more likely - from 1988? Call yourself a historian, TAFKAEiN? I don't know how you manage to keep drawing a wage from the forum.

Author:  mcquilkie [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

And don't get me started on Rog.

Author:  TAFKAEiN [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

mcquilkie wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:
Today in 1970 with Jon Sammels nearly scoring against Chelsea.

Wow, what a photo.
By the way, did anyone mention that your Paul Davis Shoot! interview wasn't from 1998, but - more likely - from 1988? Call yourself a historian, TAFKAEiN? I don't know how you manage to keep drawing a wage from the forum.


Fair point - never claimed to be a accurate typist...

But, an error is an error so I'll hand back my wages for this week.

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Author:  Bernard [ Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum

Gaz from Oz wrote:
No I am with Kiwi on this. Part of the reason we stayed up was Mancini. I believe we would have gone down without him but we will never know.

Good God I don’t believe it. I assumed kiwi was on a wind up, but now you? Mancini was utter shite. Way worse than Mustafi. That’s how bad he was. To give him the credit for keeping us up is laughable. It was mainly Ball, Kidd, Rimmer and Brady. Mancini’s main contribution was to nearly send us down whether or not he cracked a few jokes in the dressing room.

By the way, if Mee said what kiwi said he did about Mancini, it was probably to hide his own incompetence in signing him and releasing McLintock.

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