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Post #508441  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:27 pm 
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Greeny wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Thanks Greeny. So reaching the final of the Europa League last year got us plenty (26) of points. If it’s solely based on results in European competition, unless I’ve misunderstood your post, winning the Europa League is a better way of getting in the Champions League than a top four finish, or even winning the Premier League?

Well, sort of.

If we win the Europa League this season then it will raise our coefficient level so we'll definitely be in Pot 1 for the draw for next year's Champions League group stages.

I would still take us winning the Premier League this season and getting knocked out by Olympiakos, and then only being in Pot 2 for the Champions League next season.

Pot 1 or 2 for the Champions League group stages is no biggie though.
It's if we fail to qualify for Europe for 3 or 4 years, because then we'll be in Pot 4 for the CL group stages, which would be tricky...a group of death, etc.

Yes of course. Point taken. I was making my observation solely on the grounds of which would help our coefficient rating more, not the pleasure or satisfaction that would be incurred from seeing us win the league again.


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Post #508442  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:46 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Greeny wrote:
Coefficients are based on the performances in the last 5 years, so we would have to be out of Europe completely for at least 3 or 4 years to end up in Pot 3 or 4

You get 2 points for a win and 1 point for a draw, then you get a bonus point for reaching the quarter final, semi final and final, so if we win all the ties and the Final then we could get 13 points from the quarter finals to the final.

We got 15 points in 2015/16, then 19 points in 2016/17, 21 points in 2017/18, 26 points in 2018/19 and only 8 points this season so far
The 26 points from 18/19 will see us alright for 4 years, if we haven't been in Europe again by then then, yes, we'll be in pot 3 or 4.

This link will explain it all

https://kassiesa.net/uefa/index.html

Thanks Greeny. So reaching the final of the Europa League last year got us plenty (26) of points. If it’s solely based on results in European competition, unless I’ve misunderstood your post, winning the Europa League is a better way of getting in the Champions League than a top four finish, or even winning the Premier League?

That surprised me that Europa is weighted so heavily, good news for us. We really should be making at least the Semi's again. Man U, Roma, Sevilla and Inter look like the heavyweights this year - I think Olympiacos will be very tough to get past


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Post #508443  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:50 pm 
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Rich wrote:
A few things I don’t care much for. (And these are general and not aimed at anyone in particular)
1. Any personal insults
2. Arguments between individuals that drag on and on so much that the two people probably forgot what the original argument/debate started with (I never get involved with these because I’m not on the forum enough to catch all the replies and have plenty better things to do)


:53big-emoticons:

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Post #508444  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:54 pm 
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It would never happen but I'd love to see Fabregas back with a box to box Vieira type midfielder partnering with him. He's "only" 32. :1laughter:

Can't believe the years have gone by so quickly. One of the times Wenger's pettiness where he put his own feelings above what was best for the club. We could have gotten him after Barca. Same with Anelka.

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Post #508445  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:01 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Take a few minutes to look at this - it is quite wonderful.

https://neal.fun/deep-sea/

Neat - I like stuff like that.

Glad I didn't see Arsenal in the relegation area at the bottom too.


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Post #508446  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:04 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
It would never happen but I'd love to see Fabregas back with a box to box Vieira type midfielder partnering with him. He's "only" 32. :1laughter:

Can't believe the years have gone by so quickly.


We really let the decade pass us by didn’t we ? Refused to innovate or change until the damage was done, fell behind and became an academy stepping stone for our best players to get to our competitors.

All of this is the fault of Meghan Markle. Useless cow


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Post #508447  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:05 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Take a few minutes to look at this - it is quite wonderful.

https://neal.fun/deep-sea/


Omg

The puffer fish can cover more ground than Granit Xhaka :8surprise:


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Post #508448  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:11 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
A few things I don’t care much for. (And these are general and not aimed at anyone in particular)
1. Any personal insults
2. Arguments between individuals that drag on and on so much that the two people probably forgot what the original argument/debate started with (I never get involved with these because I’m not on the forum enough to catch all the replies and have plenty better things to do)


:53big-emoticons:

Hilarious response from someone whose entire existence is based on dragging arguments on and on and on etc etc.
Tosser.


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Post #508449  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
What’s interesting is that Chelsea won 30 points from winning the Europa League last season whereas Liverpool won 29 from winning the Champions League. We got 26 from being runners up in the Europa League. Tottenham got 26, the same as us, from being runners up in the Champions League.

All very odd and extremely counterintuitive. Seems to be working in our favour though - if only we could get back into Europe of course.

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Post #508450  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:28 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
What’s interesting is that Chelsea won 30 points from winning the Europa League last season whereas Liverpool won 29 from winning the Champions League. We got 26 from being runners up in the Europa League. Tottenham got 26, the same as us, from being runners up in the Champions League.

All very odd and extremely counterintuitive. Seems to be working in our favour though - if only we could get back into Europe of course.


I think I'm right (happy to be corrected if not) that the points are per result over the whole competition. It's fairly safe to say that the group stages of the Europa are a lot easier than the group stages of the Champions League giving more chance to pick up points. Add to that the extra games in the Europa and even with competition weighting it starts to make sense as to how these figures come about, if not why. If I'm right, anyway.


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Post #508451  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:31 pm 
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warrior wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:
Take a few minutes to look at this - it is quite wonderful.

https://neal.fun/deep-sea/

Neat - I like stuff like that.

Glad I didn't see Arsenal in the relegation area at the bottom too.


Image


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Post #508452  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:34 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
All very odd and extremely counterintuitive. Seems to be working in our favour though - if only we could get back into Europe of course.


I think I'm right (happy to be corrected if not) that the points are per result over the whole competition. It's fairly safe to say that the group stages of the Europa are a lot easier than the group stages of the Champions League giving more chance to pick up points. Add to that the extra games in the Europa and even with competition weighting it starts to make sense as to how these figures come about, if not why. If I'm right, anyway.

You’re quite right

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations ... lub/about/

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Post #508453  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:38 pm 
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I recently saw an interview of Nigerian multi billionaire Dangote and he still wants to buy Arsenal one day. I'd welcome him over Kroenke.

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Post #508454  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:39 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:

I think I'm right (happy to be corrected if not) that the points are per result over the whole competition. It's fairly safe to say that the group stages of the Europa are a lot easier than the group stages of the Champions League giving more chance to pick up points. Add to that the extra games in the Europa and even with competition weighting it starts to make sense as to how these figures come about, if not why. If I'm right, anyway.

You’re quite right

https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations ... lub/about/


Couldn't help noticing that penalty shoot-outs appear to be counted as part of the match.

*runs away*


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Post #508455  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:50 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
long time gooner wrote:


Couldn't help noticing that penalty shoot-outs appear to be counted as part of the match.

*runs away*

I read it as being exactly the opposite.

Just looked in Wiki which says:


The clubs receive two points for a win, one point for a draw, and no points for a defeat in games of the main stages of the Champions League and the Europa League. Results determined after extra-time are included in this method, however results determined after penalty shoot-outs are not (the result is considered a draw).

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Post #508456  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:03 pm 
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In today’s mail

On Day 12 of the "Royals step back slightly from waving duties" we present our 16 page pullout guide to why we think Meghan's a bitch

ᵀᵘʳⁿ ᵗᵒ ᵖᵍ³⁴ ᵗᵒ ˡᵉᵃʳⁿ ʰᵒʷ ᴬᵘˢᵗʳᵃˡᶦᵃ ᶦˢ ᵇᵘʳⁿᶦⁿᵍ ᵗᵒ ᵗʰᵉ ᶠᵘᶜᵏᶦⁿᵍ ᵍʳᵒᵘⁿᵈ ᵃⁿᵈ ᵗʰᵉ ʷᵒʳˡᵈ ᶦˢ ⁿᵉˣᵗ


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Post #508457  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:49 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Take a few minutes to look at this - it is quite wonderful.

https://neal.fun/deep-sea/


Wow.

So many questions.

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Post #508458  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 pm 
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warrior wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:
Take a few minutes to look at this - it is quite wonderful.

https://neal.fun/deep-sea/

Neat - I like stuff like that.

Glad I didn't see Arsenal in the relegation area at the bottom too.

:53big-emoticons:


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Post #508459  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:06 pm 
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Greeny wrote:
Rich wrote:
That surprised me that Europa is weighted so heavily, good news for us. We really should be making at least the Semi's again. Man U, Roma, Sevilla and Inter look like the heavyweights this year - I think Olympiacos will be very tough to get past

Inter definitely, add to that Benfica, Porto, Ajax, Wolves, and who knows what could happen if we get Celtic or Rangers.

Inter seem to be creating a team of ex prem players, Lukaku, sanchez, Ashley Young, keen on Eriksen.
I forgot Wolves, I’d make them harder than most of the foreign teams for us.
Also given the ranking points and the money it’s important that we make it back in to the Europa League at least again, so we can’t sack off the league and go for broke to win it. We need a top 6 team to win the carabao cup and Fa cup so European places go down to 7th in the league.....then we’ve got to get 7th!


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Post #508460  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:50 pm 
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Liverpool could break the 49 unbeaten run before they have chance to do an unbeaten season. I think, but can’t be sure that their away trip to Man City is either their 49th or 50th game. Hope Coty beat them to extinguish both records


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Post #508461  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:39 pm 
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What sometimes happens is teams lose the games they should win. I think that may happen with Liverpool.They will be geared up and ready to go when they play Man City. When they are focused on a match these days they aren't losing. How many have they lost in all competitions? 2 or 3 at the most I think? I haven't looked it up. But its very, very few. That is a more amazing stat.

So, I think it may be an away game where its nil nil late and they other team gets a goal from them pressing or even a goal down early that goes late into the game and they get countered. As we know ourselves, the pressure not to lose becomes a weight around your neck. But with Liverpool having not even drawn but one match, even a draw late in the game may not be good enough.

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Post #508462  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:00 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
r

Now I'll finish up my coffee and face the wonderful prospect of dragging my weary septuagenerian bones out to the shed and start cutting / welding my son's rusty boat trailer he bought at the weekend

Doubly exciting because the goddamn boat with a bloody enormous 250 kg outboard are still in place on the trailer ..... so access is limited .

There'll be plenty of cursing 30 minutes from now ..

Don’t worry about the cursing. I won't rule a fire out as a possibility. Grinder probably full fuel tank, probably a leaky fuel hose as well. Yeah leave that boat in place - what could go wrong.

Ahhh ... the phrase " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing " springs to mind here Townsville Boy

In the early 70's I worked in an exhaust system outfit in Sydney , when the only car to have genuine twin exhausts was a GTHO Falcon ... so every other petrolhead with a V8 wanted the same ; Monaros , Valiants , GT Falcons , Firebirds , Camaros .

We fabricated the twin systems then fully GAS welded them .... and never once did we take a fuel tank out to do it .

.... and to further your education .... a full fuel tank is a far less dangerous than a half full / empty fuel tank .


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Post #508463  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:34 pm 
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Under emery we let the opposition have an average of 17 shots per match, under Ljungberg this improved slightly to 14 shots per game.....under Arteta this is down to 10 shots per game which is the 5th best in the league.
Obviously a small sample size but it includes two of the better teams in the league.

Arteta is clearly making improvements in the team, and it’s noticeable in defence first. I’ve certainly been impressed by the changes in the first 4 games


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Post #508464  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:03 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Don’t worry about the cursing. I won't rule a fire out as a possibility. Grinder probably full fuel tank, probably a leaky fuel hose as well. Yeah leave that boat in place - what could go wrong.

Ahhh ... the phrase " a little knowledge is a dangerous thing " springs to mind here Townsville Boy

In the early 70's I worked in an exhaust system outfit in Sydney , when the only car to have genuine twin exhausts was a GTHO Falcon ... so every other petrolhead with a V8 wanted the same ; Monaros , Valiants , GT Falcons , Firebirds , Camaros .

We fabricated the twin systems then fully GAS welded them .... and never once did we take a fuel tank out to do it .

.... and to further your education .... a full fuel tank is a far less dangerous than a half full / empty fuel tank .

Did you notice the phrase leaky fuel hose. Obviously not. You got a bit carried away listing all the classic cars. Did your school reports say 'Peter's attention to detail is lacking. He might be suitable for a role as CB in an Arsenal team.'

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Post #508465  Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:45 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Much like when I was younger I had my heart set on buying an Audi A3 car - everywhere I went I kept seeing Audi A3's as though they had suddenly become popular - clearly not.

Well you can thank your lucky stars you never got one Rich ...... my brother had one what a horror show , everything went wrong and was maxi expensive to repair .

I can see from your replies ; your heart is in the right spot so I wont be ragging you about your ref bias in the future . Carry on :icon_mrgreen:


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Post #508466  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:14 am 
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Is the transfer window open? It is so quiet on this front. Not just at Arsenal, but everywhere.

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Post #508467  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:17 am 
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Is Kabasele that bad?
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/01/13/s ... -who-arte/

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Post #508468  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:07 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Did you notice the phrase leaky fuel hose. Obviously not. You got a bit carried away listing all the classic cars. Did your school reports say 'Peter's attention to detail is lacking. He might be suitable for a role as CB in an Arsenal team.'

Indeed I did see the "leaky hose " Gaz .....but being as it is a " needs a bit of work sort of buy " the boat didn't have a fuel tank or fuel line so that wasn't an issue .

I only played rugby union at school and being vertically challenged at 5 ' 9" centre half for Arsenal is out of the question .


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Post #508469  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:05 am 
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After we play Burnley on Feb 2, there is a mini winter break and we don’t play another game in any competition until Newcastle at home on Feb 16.


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Post #508470  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:10 am 
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Greeny wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I only played rugby union at school and being vertically challenged at 5 ' 9" centre half for Arsenal is out of the question .

Jinky winger would be possible.

Who on the forum has actually played football?
I'm guessing all the English played at school at least, and I know that some, like me, are still actively playing/ coaching at amateur level, but anything above that?
I'm also guessing that one of our foreign posters has never kicked a round ball before in his life.

I played but I was a terrible player. More like Gervinho than Messi.

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Post #508471  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:24 am 
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Greeny wrote:
Who on the forum has actually played football?
I'm guessing all the English played at school at least, and I know that some, like me, are still actively playing/ coaching at amateur level, but anything above that?
I'm also guessing that one of our foreign posters has never kicked a round ball before in his life.

Barnet Sunday League for me, although at my school the bloke who was the sports master (or whatever his job title was) knew a scout from Tottenham. He told me he’d advised the Tottenham scout I was worth looking at. I’ve no evidence that it was him or one of his colleagues as I never discussed it with the sports master. But there was a game we had against another school where there was some bloke watching from the sidelines. Very out of the ordinary.

That day I had a nightmare and nothing I tried came off. If it was someone from Tottenham, unsurprisingly I never got invited for a trial. I played so badly that day I didn’t want to speak to the sports master about it, and he never mentioned it, as I must have made him look a prat if he had got a Tottenham scout to come along.

So I was never compared to Glenn Hoddle at the Tottenham youth academy.


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Post #508472  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:39 am 
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Rich wrote:
After we play Burnley on Feb 2, there is a mini winter break and we don’t play another game in any competition until Newcastle at home on Feb 16.

Only one weekend off. Is there an international break?


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Post #508473  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:26 am 
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Greeny wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Barnet Sunday League for me, although at my school the bloke who was the sports master (or whatever his job title was) knew a scout from Tottenham. He told me he’d advised the Tottenham scout I was worth looking at. I’ve no evidence that it was him or one of his colleagues as I never discussed it with the sports master. But there was a game we had against another school where there was some bloke watching from the sidelines. Very out of the ordinary.

That day I had a nightmare and nothing I tried came off. If it was someone from Tottenham, unsurprisingly I never got invited for a trial. I played so badly that day I didn’t want to speak to the sports master about it, and he never mentioned it, as I must have made him look a prat if he had got a Tottenham scout to come along.

So I was never compared to Glenn Hoddle at the Tottenham youth academy.

Very interesting, Bernard.

Would you have accepted the offer if Tottenham had come in for you?

Yes I would. My brother was saying I shouldn’t but my dad, also a lifelong Arsenal fan, said of course I should. There have been lots of Arsenal fans who played for Tottenham and vice versa. Don’t forget, scouting as well as support was probably more localised back then so Arsenal and Tottenham’s scouts would have covered similar or the same areas, thus assessing fans of both clubs. Same goes for Liverpool and Everton, the Manchester clubs and countless others.


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Post #508474  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:30 am 
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:12hello-bye:
Greeny wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I only played rugby union at school and being vertically challenged at 5 ' 9" centre half for Arsenal is out of the question .

Jinky winger would be possible.

Who on the forum has actually played football?
I'm guessing all the English played at school at least, and I know that some, like me, are still actively playing/ coaching at amateur level, but anything above that?
I'm also guessing that one of our foreign posters has never kicked a round ball before in his life.

:12hello-bye:

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Post #508475  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:32 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Greeny wrote:
Who on the forum has actually played football?
I'm guessing all the English played at school at least, and I know that some, like me, are still actively playing/ coaching at amateur level, but anything above that?
I'm also guessing that one of our foreign posters has never kicked a round ball before in his life.

Barnet Sunday League for me, although at my school the bloke who was the sports master (or whatever his job title was) knew a scout from Tottenham. He told me he’d advised the Tottenham scout I was worth looking at. I’ve no evidence that it was him or one of his colleagues as I never discussed it with the sports master. But there was a game we had against another school where there was some bloke watching from the sidelines. Very out of the ordinary.

That day I had a nightmare and nothing I tried came off. If it was someone from Tottenham, unsurprisingly I never got invited for a trial. I played so badly that day I didn’t want to speak to the sports master about it, and he never mentioned it, as I must have made him look a prat if he had got a Tottenham scout to come along.

So I was never compared to Glenn Hoddle at the Tottenham youth academy.

Was the scout Dickie Moss?
He was still working for them up until around 2010
really nice bloke (for someone connected to "that" club)

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Post #508476  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:34 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Greeny wrote:
Very interesting, Bernard.

Would you have accepted the offer if Tottenham had come in for you?

Yes I would. My brother was saying I shouldn’t but my dad, also a lifelong Arsenal fan, said of course I should. There have been lots of Arsenal fans who played for Tottenham and vice versa. Don’t forget, scouting as well as support was probably more localised back then so Arsenal and Tottenham’s scouts would have covered similar or the same areas, thus assessing fans of both clubs. Same goes for Liverpool and Everton, the Manchester clubs and countless others.

I went 1 worse than you B, I did actually sign for them....was in the same group as Carl Hoddle
Was released at u15

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Post #508477  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:36 am 
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Greeny wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I only played rugby union at school and being vertically challenged at 5 ' 9" centre half for Arsenal is out of the question .

Jinky winger would be possible.

Who on the forum has actually played football?
I'm guessing all the English played at school at least, and I know that some, like me, are still actively playing/ coaching at amateur level, but anything above that?
I'm also guessing that one of our foreign posters has never kicked a round ball before in his life.

I played left wing or inside left as a youth, school and Sussex County League. I had my moments, but overall it would be accurate to describe me as fairly rubbish. Loved it always, even though I realised quite early on that I wasn't going to make it as a pro.


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Post #508478  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:46 am 
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HoddGooner wrote:
Was the scout Dickie Moss?
He was still working for them up until around 2010
really nice bloke (for someone connected to "that" club)

Not sure to be honest. So long ago I can barely remember the sports master’s name. Regarding your other post, I remember you saying before that you were once on Tottenham’s books.


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Post #508479  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:51 am 
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Greeny wrote:
Where did you play on the pitch?

Midfield, hence the Glenn Hoddle comment earlier. He’d have looked average in comparison to me.

That was a joke, in case anyone thinks my last sentence was serious.


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Post #508480  Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:36 am 
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I always played football with my mates but my school only played rugby, so I didn’t play much organised football until my mid-20s. By then I’d been watching the Arse for most of my life; I knew exactly what I should be doing, but I couldn’t bloody do it. Bizarrely, my rugby experiences – always in the scrum, mostly as a prop – equipped me pretty well for a role as an old-fashioned (even for those days) centre forward. I was utterly devoid of talent and slow as lipstick - but I was quite big, pretty fit and though I say it myself, fearless. Physicality was my only asset but I scored a hatful of goals for the teams I played for.

However when I played at a better level, I was quickly found out. I came up against decent centre halves who were just as physical, just as fearless and either kicked me where it hurt or ran rings around me. Some did both; they were the worst! I took the hint.


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