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Supporters Forum
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Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Bernard wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Nelson did well on loan. He was used mostly as a sub in the league. Started only a handful of games. Scored 7 times, not bad return. Realistically, more of the same with us this coming season - to play the role of an impact sub.

If it’s going to take Nelson going on loan to Palace to get Zaha, which I thought was the idea gooner7 objected to, doesn’t it come down to the impact you’d expect both Nelson and Zaha to have with Arsenal next season? If you’d expect Nelson to be an impact sub and that is the realistic expectation, the rationale for Arsenal is surely to expect a lot more than that from Zaha?

I suppose whether we would actually get enough from Zaha to make it worth losing someone who you anticipate being an impact sub next season is up for debate. But someone at Arsenal will have to make that judgement this summer.



Hi Bernard,

I'd have thought a loan move to Palace would be ideal for Nelson at this stage of his career. A decent team with an intelligent manager, in London as well.
Author:  Bernard [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
Bernard wrote:
If it’s going to take Nelson going on loan to Palace to get Zaha, which I thought was the idea gooner7 objected to, doesn’t it come down to the impact you’d expect both Nelson and Zaha to have with Arsenal next season? If you’d expect Nelson to be an impact sub and that is the realistic expectation, the rationale for Arsenal is surely to expect a lot more than that from Zaha?

I suppose whether we would actually get enough from Zaha to make it worth losing someone who you anticipate being an impact sub next season is up for debate. But someone at Arsenal will have to make that judgement this summer.

Hi Bernard,

I'd have thought a loan move to Palace would be ideal for Nelson at this stage of his career. A decent team with an intelligent manager, in London as well.

Morning Socrates. That’s the way I’d see such a deal as well. I was slightly puzzled by gooner7’s opposition to the idea and I doubt Nelson would be unhappy with it.
Author:  grantyboy [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Would be very happy to get Ceballos for a year. A sort of less two footed but quicker and bigger Santi. Wenger tried to get him before he went to Madrid. Very very talented, and could play an important part in our pursuit of Champions League


As I said he other day, I have mixed feelings over the Ceballos if there is no option to buy, although it seems the Real President has promised to discuss selling him to us next June.

He's technically brilliant and had an outstanding Euro u21s tournament with Spain. Whether he can cope with the pace and physicality of the PL is the big unknown.

Let's be honest, if we want to get back in the CL asap then turning down the loan of a potentially topclass player (with a reasonable salary) just because there is no option to buy is a bit churlish given our alleged financial situation. If it allows us to spend on other areas of the team it may be a sensible move.

Unfortunately, though, the better season he has the less our chances of signing him unless he falls in love with Arsenal and england.


If he helps to get back to CL status then it will be a win. Whether he stays or not will be up to Real and if they want him back I doubt that the appeal of England is going to keep him. :1laughter:
Author:  grantyboy [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote:
I really hope we don’t keep going all out for zaha hoping palace will buckle on the final day of the window and be forced to sell at our price. It is far too risky.
If palace won’t budge on their price then call their bluff early, give them our bid and say you’ve got 1 week then we’re off to get new targets.


I really hope we have other options because Zaha isn't worth $65m and there must be better options for the same money.
Author:  Goonie [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
grantyboy wrote:
Rich wrote:
I really hope we don’t keep going all out for zaha hoping palace will buckle on the final day of the window and be forced to sell at our price. It is far too risky.
If palace won’t budge on their price then call their bluff early, give them our bid and say you’ve got 1 week then we’re off to get new targets.


I really hope we have other options because Zaha isn't worth $65m and there must be better options for the same money.


I don't know if 65m is too much considering today's money in football but IF we get him, he could be our Son Heung-Min or Sadio Mané. Both are fantastic for their clubs with their pace and industry with the ability to play wide or centrally.
Author:  Gunfire [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/nfl-s- ... -1.3963947

We're 42nd.
Author:  TOP GUN [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Would be very happy to get Ceballos for a year. A sort of less two footed but quicker and bigger Santi. Wenger tried to get him before he went to Madrid. Very very talented, and could play an important part in our pursuit of Champions League


As I said he other day, I have mixed feelings over the Ceballos if there is no option to buy, although it seems the Real President has promised to discuss selling him to us next June.

He's technically brilliant and had an outstanding Euro u21s tournament with Spain. Whether he can cope with the pace and physicality of the PL is the big unknown.

Let's be honest, if we want to get back in the CL asap then turning down the loan of a potentially topclass player (with a reasonable salary) just because there is no option to buy is a bit churlish given our alleged financial situation. If it allows us to spend on other areas of the team it may be a sensible move.

Unfortunately, though, the better season he has the less our chances of signinl him unless he falls in love with Arsenal and england.


I’m expecting another Baptista type loan from Ceballos. Without an option to buy it’s just arsenal developing a player for another club. If he scores 10 goals and provides 5 assists his price will be huge, if he doesn’t then wasted a year.

The Suarez loan was probably the worst loan deal of all time. He looked an absolute nothing player
Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

As I said he other day, I have mixed feelings over the Ceballos if there is no option to buy, although it seems the Real President has promised to discuss selling him to us next June.

He's technically brilliant and had an outstanding Euro u21s tournament with Spain. Whether he can cope with the pace and physicality of the PL is the big unknown.

Let's be honest, if we want to get back in the CL asap then turning down the loan of a potentially topclass player (with a reasonable salary) just because there is no option to buy is a bit churlish given our alleged financial situation. If it allows us to spend on other areas of the team it may be a sensible move.

Unfortunately, though, the better season he has the less our chances of signinl him unless he falls in love with Arsenal and england.


I’m expecting another Baptista type loan from Ceballos. Without an option to buy it’s just arsenal developing a player for another club. If he scores 10 goals and provides 5 assists his price will be huge, if he doesn’t then wasted a year.

The Suarez loan was probably the worst loan deal of all time. He looked an absolute nothing player


So what would you rather have Ceballos and a top four finish or no Ceballos and no CL.

I think we are having to take a pragmatic approach. We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth. I am hoping that signing Ceballos allows us to buy another CB and someone like Saha or Everton Soares.
Author:  Bernard [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
The Suarez loan was probably the worst loan deal of all time. He looked an absolute nothing player

I was expecting Suarez to show ability on the ball, even if he hadn’t fitted in. But he didn’t. Average ability mixed with not an awful lot else.
Author:  Bernard [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth.

Has Saliba been confirmed yet?
Author:  Goonie [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
lomekian wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
We have always very talented young players who seem on the cusp of first team if not a potential international (Wilshere, etc.). How many of them have been promoted to the first team and a regular place on the bench?

I know the odds for that for all teams is fairly small but we seem to have players every season that most fans think should get some first team minutes and they don't get it. Even with injuries to regulars.


And yet have a good record of doing so compared to other big clubs in England. The fact is bar the crop Wenger rushed to the first team in 2007-2012, we've had no really good crops since the mid 80s, until this current lot.


Obviously I hope the likes of AMN, Emile Smith Rowe, Nelson, Willock etc will become regulars for us. But if they don't, I want to see become cleverer at transfer wheeling and dealing. The aforementioned should fetch at least 20m each in the next couple of seasons if we play our cards right. That should help our transfer budget.
Author:  TOP GUN [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
So we have a prime minister now who can’t even honestly say how many children he has.
Author:  Goonie [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth.

Has Saliba been confirmed yet?


The conventional wisdom is that we need another CB, even more so now with the Koscielny situation. I hope Saliba is the real deal, he has played less than 20 games and we are paying in excess of 25m for him. To be loaned back to St Etienne. We would actually be weaker in central defence this season with this signing. Doesn't make sense to me.
Author:  TOP GUN [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

I’m expecting another Baptista type loan from Ceballos. Without an option to buy it’s just arsenal developing a player for another club. If he scores 10 goals and provides 5 assists his price will be huge, if he doesn’t then wasted a year.

The Suarez loan was probably the worst loan deal of all time. He looked an absolute nothing player


So what would you rather have Ceballos and a top four finish or no Ceballos and no CL.

I think we are having to take a pragmatic approach. We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth. I am hoping that signing Ceballos allows us to buy another CB and someone like Saha or Everton Soares.


Apparently we are doing exactly the same with defenders. Ie trying to get a loan centre half in.
Author:  Ash [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

So what would you rather have Ceballos and a top four finish or no Ceballos and no CL.

I think we are having to take a pragmatic approach. We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth. I am hoping that signing Ceballos allows us to buy another CB and someone like Saha or Everton Soares.


Apparently we are doing exactly the same with defenders. Ie trying to get a loan centre half in.


So we’re looking at an unwanted, perhaps youngish, CB from a top side? Someone like, although probably not, Bailly from Utd. Or Bielik perhaps... No one in England will want to strengthen us, so we’re looking at someone from maybe Bayern Juve Real or Barca. As an aside did you know Zech Medley is 6’5”!
Author:  Goonie [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Ash wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Apparently we are doing exactly the same with defenders. Ie trying to get a loan centre half in.


So we’re looking at an unwanted, perhaps youngish, CB from a top side? Someone like, although probably not, Bailly from Utd. Or Bielik perhaps... No one in England will want to strengthen us, so we’re looking at someone from maybe Bayern Juve Real or Barca. As an aside did you know Zech Medley is 6’5”!


Surely we can ask Patrick Vieira nicely to let us have Malang Sarr?
Author:  Rich [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Goonie wrote:
lomekian wrote:

And yet have a good record of doing so compared to other big clubs in England. The fact is bar the crop Wenger rushed to the first team in 2007-2012, we've had no really good crops since the mid 80s, until this current lot.


Obviously I hope the likes of AMN, Emile Smith Rowe, Nelson, Willock etc will become regulars for us. But if they don't, I want to see become cleverer at transfer wheeling and dealing. The aforementioned should fetch at least 20m each in the next couple of seasons if we play our cards right. That should help our transfer budget.

The only way those players get valued at that sort of price is to get exposure in the prem. I'm relatively comfortable with our offensive positions with or without Zaha/Everton. I'm hugely concerned with our defensive positions where we are already a lot weaker than last year when we shipped 51 goals
Author:  TOP GUN [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Ash wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Apparently we are doing exactly the same with defenders. Ie trying to get a loan centre half in.


So we’re looking at an unwanted, perhaps youngish, CB from a top side? Someone like, although probably not, Bailly from Utd. Or Bielik perhaps... No one in England will want to strengthen us, so we’re looking at someone from maybe Bayern Juve Real or Barca. As an aside did you know Zech Medley is 6’5”!


Jerome Boateng Maybe, however he’s never really impressed me
Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

So what would you rather have Ceballos and a top four finish or no Ceballos and no CL.

I think we are having to take a pragmatic approach. We felt unable to let the chance to sign Saliba pass even with a year's loan so we are having to cut our coat according to our cloth. I am hoping that signing Ceballos allows us to buy another CB and someone like Saha or Everton Soares.


Apparently we are doing exactly the same with defenders. Ie trying to get a loan centre half in.


Whilst the Ceballos deal is not ideal I can understand the logic if it enables us to strengthen significantly in other areas. However, more than one loan deal (especially if there is again no purchase option) just seems like the actions of a mid to lower table club.

How many big clubs in world football sign players on loan with no option to buy, except in an emergency situation where say a player suddenly picks up a long term injury?

If we are going down that route I'd rather just give the kids a go.
Author:  long time gooner [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
We get everywhere. Watching the Tour De France which is now near Nimes. At a rider crash scene there’s a guy in an Arsenal shirt taking photos from the roadside.
Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
long time gooner wrote:
We get everywhere. Watching the Tour De France which is now near Nimes. At a rider crash scene there’s a guy in an Arsenal shirt taking photos from the roadside.


Probably caused the crash knowing our lot :laughing7:

Did his shirt have Mustafi on the back?
Author:  Ash [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
Ash wrote:

So we’re looking at an unwanted, perhaps youngish, CB from a top side? Someone like, although probably not, Bailly from Utd. Or Bielik perhaps... No one in England will want to strengthen us, so we’re looking at someone from maybe Bayern Juve Real or Barca. As an aside did you know Zech Medley is 6’5”!


Jerome Boateng Maybe, however he’s never really impressed me


How about compared to Mustafi? :icon_eek1:
That’s actually a really good shout. Not a player I’d like us to invest in significantly, but on a loan that makes a fair bit of sense as Bayern we’re trying to flog him round Europe last summer.
Author:  Ash [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
We get everywhere. Watching the Tour De France which is now near Nimes. At a rider crash scene there’s a guy in an Arsenal shirt taking photos from the roadside.


Probably caused the crash knowing our lot :laughing7:

Did his shirt have Mustafi on the back?


If you look carefully you can see a Wenger Out sign in the corner.
Author:  long time gooner [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
socrates wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
We get everywhere. Watching the Tour De France which is now near Nimes. At a rider crash scene there’s a guy in an Arsenal shirt taking photos from the roadside.


Probably caused the crash knowing our lot :laughing7:

Did his shirt have Mustafi on the back?

Ha ha. Nice one. :42laughter:
Author:  Rich [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
I’m not sure I understand the pros for the selling club in sending a player on loan with an option to buy at a fixed price?
If the player does well or bad the buying club still has the option to buy or not.
I assume the price would be closer to what the selling club want to sell him for and realistically the only way it will get triggered is if he has done well for the buying club and therefore the buying club are more likely to agree to the price.

I’m fine with us not having an option to buy cellabos, we’ve got bigger problems. I don’t recall us allowing any of our players to go on loan with an option to buy.
Author:  Ash [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote:
I’m not sure I understand the pros for the selling club in sending a player on loan with an option to buy at a fixed price?
If the player does well or bad the buying club still has the option to buy or not.
I assume the price would be closer to what the selling club want to sell him for and realistically the only way it will get triggered is if he has done well for the buying club and therefore the buying club are more likely to agree to the price.

I’m fine with us not having an option to buy cellabos, we’ve got bigger problems. I don’t recall us allowing any of our players to go on loan with an option to buy.


I see what you mean but I kinda get it. It’s just a try before you buy isn’t it with the negotiations pre-done. I think the pro for the selling club is the deal is more likely to get done. If we had an option to buy on Cabellos I’m sure we’d be much more keen and pay a bigger loan fee perhaps?
Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote:
I’m not sure I understand the pros for the selling club in sending a player on loan with an option to buy at a fixed price?
If the player does well or bad the buying club still has the option to buy or not.
I assume the price would be closer to what the selling club want to sell him for and realistically the only way it will get triggered is if he has done well for the buying club and therefore the buying club are more likely to agree to the price.

I’m fine with us not having an option to buy cellabos, we’ve got bigger problems. I don’t recall us allowing any of our players to go on loan with an option to buy.


Hi Rich,

To be fair, how many players have we loaned to bigger clubs than us without a buy option?

That said, we don't have enough money to address all the issues in the team (and let's face it there are plenty of them) so loans are really a pragmatic approach to try to get us to where we want to be (CL) as quickly as possible with the budget we have. I am not a gig fan of loans without an option to buy but needs must I suppose.

Talking transfers, surely a quality CB is an absolute priority for next season, especially if Kos leaves.
Author:  grantyboy [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Cb, Lb, Cb Lb. Please.
Author:  TOP GUN [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Thing is We have

kosielny
Mavropanos
Chambers
Mustafi
Sokratis
Holding

Plus saliba now.

I can see the logic in signing another CB but at the expense of a left back or pacy wide player? I mean we don’t have any competent left back at the club. Surely it makes more sense to hold off and prioritise other areas until we can sell 1 or 2 of the guys we already have.
Author:  socrates [ Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote:
Thing is We have

kosielny
Mavropanos
Chambers
Mustafi
Sokratis
Holding

Plus saliba now.

I can see the logic in signing another CB but at the expense of a left back or pacy wide player? I mean we don’t have any competent left back at the club. Surely it makes more sense to hold off and prioritise other areas until we can sell 1 or 2 of the guys we already have.


Unfortunately they are all journeyman CBs. Kos was a top CB once but is clearly now past his imperious best. The rest are a pretty average bunch.

Most of them are available at the right price but we've had no takers which tells you everything about their quality, or lack of.

To be honest, although I'd love to see a top quality pacy wideman arrive I think our defensive issues are a more pressing concern. Until we sort the defence we will struggle for top four.
Author:  Goonie [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Half time: Arsenal 2-0 RM. Looks like we'd be undefeated in pre-season.
Author:  gooner7 [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Goonie wrote:
Half time: Arsenal 2-0 RM. Looks like we'd be undefeated in pre-season.


3 out of 3 for the ICC. Not bad for morale. And have to be taken into context too, in that these are all pre-season friendlies. Still augurs well for the younger players, who played a big part in it. Time for the announcements ....... drum roll ................
Author:  Goonie [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
2-2 now.
Author:  warrior [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Going to pens now ..
Author:  warrior [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Author:  Goonie [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Our left-footed players cannot score from pens
Author:  Rich [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Spurs have managed to flog Vincent Janssen for £10m. Considering he has been absolutely beyond awful and has barely made a match day squad for a year that is a great price. Why can’t we sell our deadwood!? This really is as important as getting new signings in.

My fear is our glacial approach to a squad overhaul is going to take too many windows to get a competent team and in 3-4 windows time we will have a whole new bunch of players who need replacing either through age or getting annoyed at constantly being part of a team in transition.

Other teams manage to complete squad overhauls with less money than we have. 2 weeks left of the window. If we go in to the new season without any defensive signings then we can write off the season
Author:  Rich [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Two players sent off in a pre season friendly! What was the ref doing. You only usually see red cards for serious foul play in friendlies.

I do fear for Sokratis and VAR this year. I reckon he’ll miss at least 5 league games with suspension. Making the need for a CB even greater
Author:  TOP GUN [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
So we haven’t been able to shift a single deadwood player so far ?

Not one,

The club have no money so are having to get a defender and midfielder on loan.

A damning indictment of how things were so badly managed before Emery.
Author:  Bernard [ Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote:
Why can’t we sell our deadwood!? This really is as important as getting new signings in.

That would only be the case if receipts from players sold would automatically be added to the transfer budget. I’ve seen nothing of Stan being in charge that suggests it will be the case. From what I’ve seen of the Kroenke ownership regime, I suspect it’s naive to expect it.
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