I think to review how much wenger effects where we are now you could look at all the wenger signings who are now no longer with us and see how much money they were sold for and whether they have gone on to do well since they left.

There is a separate discussion on all the decisions on contracts and signings that have been made post wenger. But for me the last few years of the wenger era were going to cause us problems for 5-8 years because of the money lost, wasted and the huge contracts given. We’ve not necessarily learnt all the lessons from then.

You say we have no money but I’ve read Arsenal’s owner is richer than some financially doped clubs. Funny (in a curious not humorous context) you raise the possibility of losing Saka. The Metro recently discussed the possibility of Arsenal, as a last resort, selling him to fund transfer activity.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 51641/amp/

Take Kane out of spurs and they’re worse than us for sure. Can’t see how he stays there if he has ambition to win the biggest trophies. But then who buys him for what spurs want? Not when players like Haaland are available for a similar price. Kane may be forced to stay

Joe Willock earns a late point for Newcastle against Spurs. 2-2 final score. Big blow for spurs top 4 hopes. Looking at the run ins I think Liverpool get 4th

I think the problem we have is that fans look at the summer and say well if we move 10 players out that would raise £150m+ and we can then buy 3 or 4 top players with that money.

The trouble is that football just doesn't work like that or every one would be offloading their deadwood at the start of each transfer window for big money and then re-investing the proceeds in better players.

No it’s not worse than city at home in Emery’s last season.

The team didn’t give a *%^@ and weren’t trying anymore even before we had kicked off. In my Arsenal supporting life it was the most pathetic display I’ve witnessed

Le grove on Twitter ....

It is amusing to read the ghouls come out of the basement after a bad result.

'NO IMPROVEMENT'

Nothing red flags that you struggle with watching football quite like stating you haven't seen an improvement.

And this ‘improvement’ that I for one am struggling to see, how is it measurable/tangible?

As for struggling to watch football, well I certainly struggle to watch the turgid rubbish that was served up yesterday.

Againest spurs when we won and looked the better team ? When we beat Leicester away comfortably ? When we scored 3 againest chelsea

The structure of the team and improved defence, our performances againest the bigger sides. The fact our recent form puts us close to the top 4 in the form league

Rich is right, our fans are the most reactionary.

Not really a measure of improvement though is it, to simply list the good performances? For each good performance there has been an equivalent poor. That’s why we are absolutely mid table.

Looking over the past twenty years I can’t call that an improvement. Rather the opposite. This season has not demonstrably built on last season. And I feel dispirited about our immediate future in a way that takes me back to the early seventies.

And it’s not reactionary to express displeasure at watching dross.

We didn’t play any dross in the last 5 years of Wenger did we? Or Emery?

It went to pot at the start of the season. Starting the season with our midfield options was ridiculous

Arteta picking up from two failed managers And a crisis in the boardroom .. during the most consequential mitigating circumstance to hit elite sport since WW2. No proper preseason, no fans, and a limited budget

If you can’t see this I don’t know what to say

This is nonsense. We did play dross under Wenger and under Emery. And our club situation stinks. All for the reasons that you have given.

.

Exactly. It’s going to happen every once in a while. Not referring to Arteta specifically but we have employed a manager to oversee a rebuilding process and are now seeing calls to sack the same manager who is in charge of rebuilding a team is short sighted. That’s a multi year process. The people calling for this don’t seem to understand that means tearing up a plan and starting from scratch thus adding 1-2 years to the rebuild.

How much of this do you think we can do before it seriously damages the club.

Dunno. It’s not me calling for Arteta’s head. The problems are way deeper than that.

I agree with this with regards to how fans tend to speculate, we are not going to bring in 4-5 new players, let alone the 7-8 some are talking about.

If we’re not in europe at all then we have to trim down the squad massively we just wouldn’t need 28-30 players.
I do expect at least 5 new faces this summer, whether they are the quality we need or can obtain is a separate debate but purely on numbers I think we will see those sorts of numbers come in.

But...that’s the amount of players we have regularly been signing each season for at least 4-5 seasons now.
If we’re not in europe at all then we have to trim down the squad massively we just wouldn’t need 28-30 players.
I do expect at least 5 new faces this summer, whether they are the quality we need or can obtain is a separate debate but purely on numbers I think we will see those sorts of numbers come in.

And this ‘improvement’ that I for one am struggling to see, how is it measurable/tangible?

Pardon Daka, hat trick for Salzburg tonight and 23 goals in 19 games this season. Exactly the sort of striker we should be going for in the summer

That would be some goal next year. Xhaka to Lacazette on to Saka who plays it through to Daka who scores. All we need is Kaka watching from the stands, Macca as the half time entertainment and Tika Taka football in the second half
Sorry. I’ll get my coat.

Spell check killed my Xhaka Lacazette Saka Daka line

There's obviously a lot of work left to do, and I don't mean any of the above as a reason why we're certain to challenge soon. It's more like little reasons to believe we might be heading in the right direction again as a club, after treading water for quite some time.

Ah. Forum spell check. Oh well.

Not sure how these two sentences go together? If we need to trim the squad down surely that makes signing five new players more unlikely.

We have 25 players in the first team squad not counting the ones who are out on loan. Of those 25 I would say Ceballos is very unlikely to return next season, and Ødegaard is a possibility if we can make it work financially. Two new players and one or two of the loanees returning to the squad is what I'd expect, maybe a third signing if we can find a Willian type deal. Those huge overhauls rarely happen, and the financial situation in football has made them even more unlikely in my opinion.

But in prior years Rich we didn’t have a £150m Bank of England loan to pay back at the end of May.

Someone mentioned the hope for Edu using his Brazilian connections to unearth some hidden gems. Gabriel Menino a 20 year old midfielder dubbed the new yaya toure has a £51m release clause but is being touted around at £13m because of his club’s financial problems. If we’re savvy I think there are good deals to be had in the market irrespective of our own need to trim and save money

Hi Rich,

That's exactly the kind of deal I thought Edu was brought in to facilitate. To give us the edge in spotting and signing young south american talent.

I think Brexit has made it harder to sign young european players so perhaps emerging south americans are our best way forward.

Would they qualify for an entry visa