Steve Gleibers Arsenal Forum :: View topic

Got exactly what we deserved.

Said it before but rather than find the current situation depressing, I honestly find it fascinating. For what it’s worth I honestly believe he’s gone in the summer. Have done for some time.

Rich wrote:

Lots of stills doing the rounds of Arsenal’s defending for the first forest goal. I will be amazed if anyone could show me a more amateur set up to defend a free kick from any team this season. There’s a long list but it is probably the worst piece of arsenal defending I’ve seen all season because we had all the time we wanted to set up exactly how we wanted and not one player spotted what was wrong.
There will be zero reprucussions for it as well. Every other manager in the league would have those same players doing set piece drills for a week until they got it in their thick skulls

You can pick the bones out of every goal concession and I've just watched it again below and of course he's been given a free run across the box there. Looks to me as if Debuchy should have been more aware of him. Sometimes you need to credit the opposition and for me that's also a great delivery and a clever run and finish. I've seen worse. In fact, for me the second goal is worse as despite the cracking finish we've made a huge number of errors there to concede from a throw in, culminating in a terrible header into danger from Walcott and the midfield completely MIA when the ball lands to yer forest man to hit the shot.
https://www.footbie.com/video/nottingha ... nal-is-out

Gaz from Oz wrote:

Back to bed. 4am here. My team did me proud.

The only questions I have is when do Walcott and Wenger leave. They can share a cab.

I’ve already offered Walcott a lift; I can easily squeeze another one in

And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level.

VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi

Rich wrote:

VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi

Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.

You think he will go against everything he is proud of and break a contract?

Only 4 mins of added time. Haha. It should be double that...

TOP GUN wrote:

Reminder:

Wenger thinks all those players are better than Lucas Perez

And Joel Campbell

VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi

TOP GUN wrote:

Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.

Very good.
I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity.

kiwipete wrote:

I didn't say effecting the outcome .... but Rich is doing his usual scream about the ref , with Lomekian moaning about the decision .

No -one has mentioned that Nelson dived .... oops sorry not dived " adapted to give us a better advantage " for the free kick that brought us back to 1 - 1 .

Hold on. I just made the point that the ref missed the double kick on the spot kick. Not once said that this single decision or any other ref decision cost us the game -
I don’t understand some fans notion that because we played badly we shouldn’t complain or be annoyed if the ref makes a mistake against us. I feel there are far too many refs not up to the required standard.

Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well.

Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough.
Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal!

All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on.

Rich wrote:

Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty.

So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see. On the coverage here I never saw any footage that clearly 100% showed he hit it twice. Jeez it looked like it but nothing to absolutely prove

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5244927/Mike-Dean-admits-error-Arsenal-West-Brom-draw.html

Chew on that you numpties.....

What a rebuild! Pep just had to rebuild a defence and it took £150m
We need to rebuild an entire squad!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5244927/Mike-Dean-admits-error-Arsenal-West-Brom-draw.html

Chew on that you numpties.....

Everything literally everything is in disarray

TOP GUN wrote:

Everything literally everything is in disarray

You mean figuratively and you need to stop believing every rumour you read.

Hazuki wrote:

You mean figuratively and you need to stop believing every rumour you read.

Literally is a figure of speech.

Although he might mean literally in the strictest sense anyway - it's hard to think of something that isn't right now.

Author:	TOP GUN [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
I get there seems to be some substance to the feeling he will go in the summer but can you honestly see it ? I mean can you see Arsenal sacking Wenger ? I can't. I couldn't see him leaving voluntarily either mid contract either

Author:	Rich [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Darren wrote: Got exactly what we deserved. Said it before but rather than find the current situation depressing, I honestly find it fascinating. For what it’s worth I honestly believe he’s gone in the summer. Have done for some time. You think he will go against everything he is proud of and break a contract? I think he’s here for another 18 months, and if he wants to stay beyond that he will get another contract. I’d love it if you were right though. We need signings in jan, we need to get some money in from Sanchez and Özil if they won’t sign. What do you do? Keep them both and lose them for zero but give ourself a chance of winning the Europa and getting back in the champions league.....or sell them both for £50m for the pair, bank the cash, write off the season and start again in the summer?

Author:	Bored [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Assuming we don't qualify for the CL, I wont be surprised if Wenger leaves this summer. The two year contract makes it easy for him to go whilst avoiding the contract uncertainty of last season. We've been fortunate in the past that no one really threatened our fourth place trophy, but Tottingham and Liverpool's resurgence has meant our stagnating team is looking increasingly like a Europa league team.

Author:	Niall [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level.

Author:	TOP GUN [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
And if it couldn't get worse the Chilean media are reporting Alexis Sanchez is about to be sold to city for 30 odd million http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man-city ... xoiogok7o5

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Author:	Rich [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Niall wrote: Rich wrote: Lots of stills doing the rounds of Arsenal’s defending for the first forest goal. I will be amazed if anyone could show me a more amateur set up to defend a free kick from any team this season. There’s a long list but it is probably the worst piece of arsenal defending I’ve seen all season because we had all the time we wanted to set up exactly how we wanted and not one player spotted what was wrong. There will be zero reprucussions for it as well. Every other manager in the league would have those same players doing set piece drills for a week until they got it in their thick skulls You can pick the bones out of every goal concession and I've just watched it again below and of course he's been given a free run across the box there. Looks to me as if Debuchy should have been more aware of him. Sometimes you need to credit the opposition and for me that's also a great delivery and a clever run and finish. I've seen worse. In fact, for me the second goal is worse as despite the cracking finish we've made a huge number of errors there to concede from a throw in, culminating in a terrible header into danger from Walcott and the midfield completely MIA when the ball lands to yer forest man to hit the shot. https://www.footbie.com/video/nottingha ... nal-is-out Both are bad but for me the second one is the culmination of lots of individual mistakes. From a set piece there should be 11 players knowing exactly where they should be and where everyone else should be. It’s a free chance to set up properly.the concerning bit is not one player realised the danger of the huge gap that a player could Wonder in to and not be offside

Author:	DHD [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
We were pretty *%^@ and were mildly stitched up. I don’t really care.

Author:	Gaz from Oz [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
john1 wrote: Gaz from Oz wrote: Back to bed. 4am here. My team did me proud. The only questions I have is when do Walcott and Wenger leave. They can share a cab. I’ve already offered Walcott a lift; I can easily squeeze another one in I suggest you may need to upgrade to a small bus. The clean out has a lot of potential participants. For those, including myself, wanting Walcott to go, when he finds a club and realises the amount of wages they are offering are probably less than the tax he currently pays, I believe he will stay.

Author:	Bored [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Its an odd situation. You'd expect your team getting comfortably beaten by a lower league club without a manager, to hurt a bit but it doesn't really. If Alexis really is allowed to leave now then surely they will need to make a big signing this month otherwise its pretty much giving up mid season.

Author:	Gaz from Oz [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Niall wrote: And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level. You cannot tackle from behind. If it happened anywhere else on the field it is a free kick. I thought pen, but to me this game was about our overall playing philosophy. What is it -tippy tappy, direct, quick breaks. We were terrible in the last 40 minutes the only time I watched. Have the rest on DVD to watch today if I need punishing. At one stage shots on target were 7-1 to Forest and I assume Ospina saved us a number of times. The CB's of Mert and Holding beat Chelsea in the cup final last year. Regression is everywhere in the club.

Author:	Rich [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi

Author:	TOP GUN [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.

Author:	Rich [ Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote: Rich wrote: VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from. Very good. I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity.

Author:	Darren [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: You think he will go against everything he is proud of and break a contract? I do. I think he’s going to leave.

Author:	old man of hoy [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Niall wrote: And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level. Yes, and of the six goals I would say only one came without defensive error, that being our first. For all the others you can attribute blame. The whole of the Arsenal defence for their first; Holding for their second and third; Mertersacker and the ref for their fourth; and their keeper for Welbeck's goal. Great result for the anti-Arsenals but in truth a game of football mainly without high quality. A good day for dear old Forest, but whoever draws them next must fancy their chances of getting to the 5th Round.

Author:	david.d [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
A combination of us winning the trophy 3 times in the last 4 years and just sick and tired of wenger has somewhat numbed the pain of today's defeat. I so hope Darren is right. The excitement of wenger going , the excitement of the rumours of who the new manager will be. The buzz of someone and something new. New hope. New tactics. The first press conference of our new manager. This is what I'm looking forward to. Wenger clearly doesn't like what Gazidis has been doing re the changes in the backroom team. His power base is slowly being cut. I hope he does go in the summer. Just do the right thing man.

Author:	david.d [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Let me add he has given me my best moments as an Arsenal fan but he needs to stop being so selfish and let someone else have a go. It's TIME.

Author:	gooner7 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: TOP GUN wrote: Reminder: Wenger thinks all those players are better than Lucas Perez And Joel Campbell Oh yes, Joel Campbell, the forgotten man. He is miles better than Walcott and would have been 200% more effective.

Author:	gooner7 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi And if luck would have it, VAR will cancel us a goal, and deny us a penalty.

Author:	Gaz from Oz [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: TOP GUN wrote: Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from. Very good. I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity. Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty. So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see. On the coverage here I never saw any footage that clearly 100% showed he hit it twice. Jeez it looked like it but nothing to absolutely prove it. So immediately after the incident if the VAR person saw exactly the coverage I did then the refs decision must stand. It is no use TV showing later that night a different camera angle that they did not realise they had. The decision will be made in a 5-10 sec timeframe. If you cannot be sure then you must back the decision already made. On decisions I never saw any actual footage of how Wellbeck came to shoot wide and the keeper deflected it in. But my first impression was that the keeper had both hands on the ball and wellbeck touched it off him. Maybe it could have been a free to them if there was any camera. Maybe it was my imagination. It was never replayed on our coverage with any way of seeing what happened. But the point is that VAR cannot solve too many problems. You know I have never been a particular supporter of refs but I feel sorry for them. It is not the refs we should be spending time trying to rectify it is the players cheating, exaggerating and deceiving that is the problem. Review games and hand out cards and suspensions and it will soon stop. But that includes Man U and big club players not just Stoke and Bournemouth players. Have the FA got the balls for it. NO. They are part of the problem not just the refs. Just watched the game again. Our senior players, other than Ospina let us down. Holding was slow and cumbersome and actually I thought he mentally collapsed. It will be a long way back for him and Mert. Which brings me to Arsenal traditions. When Arsenal were beaten by Walsall (I think) in the 1930's in an FA Cup upset, Chapman decided one or two of the players would never play for the club again and got rid of them. Arsene you love the values of the club. Over to you.

Author:	kiwipete [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: kiwipete wrote: I didn't say effecting the outcome .... but Rich is doing his usual scream about the ref , with Lomekian moaning about the decision . No -one has mentioned that Nelson dived .... oops sorry not dived " adapted to give us a better advantage " for the free kick that brought us back to 1 - 1 . Hold on. I just made the point that the ref missed the double kick on the spot kick. Not once said that this single decision or any other ref decision cost us the game - I don’t understand some fans notion that because we played badly we shouldn’t complain or be annoyed if the ref makes a mistake against us. I feel there are far too many refs not up to the required standard. Yes but if you are going to focus on refs making mistakes why didn't you mention the earlier incident when Nelson dived to win the free kick which led to our first goal ....?

Author:	gooner7 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well. Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough. Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal! All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on.

Author:	gooner7 [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
gooner7 wrote: Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well. Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough. Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal! All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on. http://www.redlondon.net/arsenal-star-s ... rest-game/

Author:	Hazuki [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Didn’t watch the game last night, but you know it’s bad when people start to get nostalgic about Joel Campbell. Come on people, let’s not slag Wenger off for one of the things he’s actually done right in recent years – deciding Campbell isn’t good enough. Walcott is far superior, and he should've been sold 2-3 years ago. Looking at our eleven from last night, there’s actually a fair bit of talent there. Shame we can’t set up the team properly these days. Like Darren, I actually suspect Wenger will leave in the summer – either by choice or by force. The fact that we’ve signed a player above Wenger’s head is a huge sign that there’s a power shift going on. I hope we sell Sanchez in January, and Özil as well if he doesn’t sign a new contract. Hoard the money, or get a couple of young quality players in. Doesn’t matter that Wenger can’t get the best out of them, we need quality players for the next manager anyway.

Author:	Rich [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Gaz from Oz wrote: Rich wrote: Very good. I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity. Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty. So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see. On the coverage here I never saw any footage that clearly 100% showed he hit it twice. Jeez it looked like it but nothing to absolutely prove I think the spin on the ball proved it hit his other foot (standing foot). It is impossible to make the ball spin with topspin if you just strike a football off the ground without it hitting anything else. The physics of it are more conclusive that what the human eye can or can’t see

Author:	bubblechris [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... -draw.html Chew on that you numpties.....

Author:	Rich [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
bubblechris wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5244927/Mike-Dean-admits-error-Arsenal-West-Brom-draw.html Chew on that you numpties..... cat amongst the pigeons......

Author:	Draytonkid [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
I think this is the last straw for Wenger, they must let him go, as that was a shambles,it was his decision to forsake the value of the FA cup for a lesser competition in which we don't have much chance of progressing in. Wonder if Vieira and Arteta would take it on?

Author:	Hazuki [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Rich wrote: What a rebuild! Pep just had to rebuild a defence and it took £150m We need to rebuild an entire squad! I think if you go through all our rivals squad you can make similar lists of players that need replacing. Liverpool have no goalkeeper of the required standard, and exactly one central defender who is good enough in Van Dijk. Matip looks no more than decent, Klavan and Lovren are simply not good enough. Chelsea have a good starting eleven overall, with a couple of top class players papering over the cracks. Not much depth, and even some of their starters are not that good. Man United sorely lacks creativity throughout their entire squad. Tottenham have possibly the worst bench in the top 6. There’s work to be done for every manager. I will never understand why people deem Welbeck as not good enough, and Coquelin and Elneny are not worse squad options than Drinkwater or that useless lump Fellaini. We need a bit of an overhaul, but there’s a good core group of players for our new manager to work with, sprinkled with a couple of top class talents. If anyone thought we could turn everything around with just a manager change and one transfer window they were fooling themselves to begin with.

Author:	Hazuki [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
bubblechris wrote: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5244927/Mike-Dean-admits-error-Arsenal-West-Brom-draw.html Chew on that you numpties..... Well that's mighty big of him.

Author:	TOP GUN [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Today's rumour is Ramsey and Welbeck are both refusing to sign new contracts as the club has offered them extensions but with no improved terms. Welbeck I couldn't care less about now as he's Kevin Campbell -40% but Ramsey can still do a job in the premiership. Everything literally everything is in disarray

Author:	Daz [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Everybody thinks Mike Dean was wrong to give that penalty. It was a hard one to deny. We all KNOW that some penalties are incorrectly given or not given, it's hardly major news. Happens in all sports even with technology. Saw an absurd one in the Lions v All Blacks at the death when NZ not given a clear penalty for offside that would have given them the series (just for you, KP!) Not really the point though is it? Do you react by running around screaming at every subsequent 50/50 decision that goes against us and claim it is evidence of some big conspiracy while ignoring any decisions in our favour or evidence of our players doing what all the rest of them do? On the subject of VAR I really hope people don't kill better with perfect. There will be some hiccoughs at the start it won't solve everything just as happened with cricket reviews. I very much doubt it would have altered the "double touch" decision yesterday as it just wasn't conclusive enough - like an LBW where you have a reasonable idea but it still remains too close to overturn. That might be annoying for some fanatics but it is still probably much better than the status quo. I am pessimistic though that as soon as it doesn't achieve the desired outcome on one occasion the squealing and special pleading and victim mentality will all start up again.

Author:	Hazuki [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
TOP GUN wrote: Everything literally everything is in disarray You mean figuratively and you need to stop believing every rumour you read.

Author:	bubblechris [ Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Supporters Forum
Daz if you're talking to me no I do not. I praise them when they get things right, I accept the decision they make if they give nothing because they couldn't see the incident and I acknowledge a penalty given eg Bellerin when he ran alongside a layer and pushed him in the back however lightly, so no I am not looking at every decision as bad. I dfo however objec o the obviously bad decisions that go against my team when watchng a game.