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Post #521881  Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:36 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Adding on to what ltg and soc were saying about back passes, etc, the one thing we used to have in the past are players who had a footballing brain and saw the whole pitch. Bergkamp, Fabregas, Rosicky, Özil, others as well who knew before they got the ball to whom it was going to go forward to.

Xhaka, Elneny, don't have that ability. Ceballos is the closest we have presently. The forward players are now starting to make runs when the ball gets into the midfield but before they weren't as much out of frustration.

That’s why Tierney has become so central to what we do. He’s determined to get down the other end of the pitch with the ball and do some damage to the opposition.


You are right about Tierney. I fear he will get sussed out to some extent. He goes hard forward to his left side and puts in quality crosses. If we see it, opposition coaches will as well and make adjustments. Bellerin is starting to do it a little but he's not the same Bellerin from a few years ago.

We need a creative, defense splitting passer, midfielder desperately.

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Post #521882  Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:13 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Zed wrote:
Thing is, we're still in 11th place. Newcastle is a must win as well as all other ucoming matches. I appreciate Emile Smith Rowe, Tierney, Saka, but need more strengthening and cohesion.

Your not gonna get it.

It will work in some games and others not because the players we are reliant on for inspiration and creativity are staggeringly 19 and 20 years old and aren’t experienced or polished enough to win games week in week out. Yet.

If their performances aren’t acceptable then the alternative is to bring in Pépé,Willian and Nketiah and I’m sure you will agree that it hasn’t worked out at all when we have done that.

The truth is that we aren’t better than an 8th to 11 the placed side at the moment and the harder truth is that in reality nothing much on the field should be unexpected from a group of players like we have with their limitations.

It’s gonna be painful and frustrating but we will need to see this out .


Not expecting miracles , just players to turn up and make an effort no matter who the opponent.

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Post #521883  Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ornstein reporting Özil to Fenerbache to be done next week. Could be a huge saving for us on just 6 months wages plus any possible loyalty bonus. Although here’s probably an ‘incentive’ from us for him to leave.

Ornstein very accurate on Arsenal news

I read somewhere that Arsenal will be meeting the difference between his Fenerbahce wage and the £350k a week he was on with us. Is that not the case then, as the same report said Özil had made it quite clear to Arsenal that he wouldn’t move this month unless they did that?


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Post #521884  Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:32 pm 
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The way I see it is that we have a long road ahead to get us back to where we want to be and because of that we cannot afford to waste a single transfer window.

Realistically, we probably need at least 6 quality players to get us back to competing seriously at the top end of the table.

In the summer we will lose a number of players as contracts run down etc, but it is still a big ask to sign 6 or more players in one window and get most of them right.

We need to be smart with our recruitment but we also need to be timely because if the speed of the rebuild is too slow its a bit like painting the Forth Bridge, by the time we get the players in we want some of our existing players will be either too old or will be looking for pastures new as a result of our lack of competitiveness and ambition and so the process will begin again.

Obviously, our finances are not in great shape right now but if there was ever a time where the Kroenke's money could get a lot of bang for its buck the time is now with lots of clubs in severe financial difficulty and willing or having to sell players, and without the worry of FFP. A big investment from the Kroenke's and some smart signings and we could make huge strides very quickly.

Sadly, it won't happen.


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Post #521885  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:18 am 
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socrates wrote:
Obviously, our finances are not in great shape right now but if there was ever a time where the Kroenke's money could get a lot of bang for its buck the time is now with lots of clubs in severe financial difficulty and willing or having to sell players, and without the worry of FFP. A big investment from the Kroenke's and some smart signings and we could make huge strides very quickly.

Sadly, it won't happen.

When I was reading that main paragraph I was thinking “Sadly, it won’t happen.” Then I saw your concluding sentence. Great minds think alike.


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Post #521886  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:32 am 
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Just seen that former number two keeper Geoff Barnett has died. Sad, he died of complications from Covid-19 in Florida. Played in the 1972 cup final against Leeds.


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Post #521887  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:55 am 
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I think if we get a partner for Gabriel of similar quality and a creative midfielder, we can be top 6. We will need a bigger squad to compete. We will need to replace both Pépé and Willian. I hope Pépé can prove me wrong. Willian is at the tail end of his career in a top league. MLS, China, bottom half of the table, top 1 or 2 of the Championship or an also ran in any of the European leagues awaits.

I still maintain that Saka may be a good center mid till we find someone specifically for that role.

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Post #521888  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:19 am 
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So where does Özil rank in the all time greatest Arsenal players list? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

We’d have to balance the talent of the player against the teams they played in, what they won and their influence.
These lists can’t just be on trophies because someone like Cygwin won more prestigious trophies than Özil, but there must be some bearing so less fashionable players like Ray Parlour aren’t overlooked


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Post #521889  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:33 am 
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Bit of a gap in the league which will mean we’ll struggle to move up very quickly. Villa directly above us have 3 games in hand then it’s a glut of teams who are all 5 points above us. To join them you’d be looking at a very good run from us of at least 3-4 wins in a row. I think we’ll be staying around 11-14 for some time


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Post #521890  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:10 am 
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Rich wrote:
So where does Özil rank in the all time greatest Arsenal players list? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

We’d have to balance the talent of the player against the teams they played in, what they won and their influence.
These lists can’t just be on trophies because someone like Cygwin won more prestigious trophies than Özil, but there must be some bearing so less fashionable players like Ray Parlour aren’t overlooked

It also can’t, or shouldn’t, be focussed on the more sexy positions like midfield and forwards. Otherwise Campbell, Adams, McLintock, O’Leary, Keown and others, let alone numerous full backs and in goal the likes of Seaman, Jennings and Lehmann, wouldn’t get a look in.

From that, no way is Özil anywhere near the top twenty. Indeed, without bothering to list them I’d be very surprised if I couldn’t name fifty better than him. The top hundred would be my guess, but that is taken off the top of my head after reading your post, and without thinking about it.


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Post #521891  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:09 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
So where does Özil rank in the all time greatest Arsenal players list? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

We’d have to balance the talent of the player against the teams they played in, what they won and their influence.
These lists can’t just be on trophies because someone like Cygwin won more prestigious trophies than Özil, but there must be some bearing so less fashionable players like Ray Parlour aren’t overlooked

It also can’t, or shouldn’t, be focussed on the more sexy positions like midfield and forwards. Otherwise Campbell, Adams, McLintock, O’Leary, Keown and others, let alone numerous full backs and in goal the likes of Seaman, Jennings and Lehmann, wouldn’t get a look in.

From that, no way is Özil anywhere near the top twenty. Indeed, without bothering to list them I’d be very surprised if I couldn’t name fifty better than him. The top hundred would be my guess, but that is taken off the top of my head after reading your post, and without thinking about it.

Certainly not top 50 Bernard, I agree. Struggling to make top 100 I'd say, not on natural ability (he'd be much higher) but on overall contribution to Arsenal.


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Post #521892  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:13 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
So where does Özil rank in the all time greatest Arsenal players list? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

We’d have to balance the talent of the player against the teams they played in, what they won and their influence.
These lists can’t just be on trophies because someone like Cygwin won more prestigious trophies than Özil, but there must be some bearing so less fashionable players like Ray Parlour aren’t overlooked

It also can’t, or shouldn’t, be focussed on the more sexy positions like midfield and forwards. Otherwise Campbell, Adams, McLintock, O’Leary, Keown and others, let alone numerous full backs and in goal the likes of Seaman, Jennings and Lehmann, wouldn’t get a look in.

From that, no way is Özil anywhere near the top twenty. Indeed, without bothering to list them I’d be very surprised if I couldn’t name fifty better than him. The top hundred would be my guess, but that is taken off the top of my head after reading your post, and without thinking about it.

I would tend to agree, although I'm not sure how much his failure to live up to expectation at Arsenal was his fault. Buying him was a bit of a hail Mary.

I'm just relieved that he is moving on, for both parties' sakes. Hopefully he'll do well at Fenerbahce.

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Post #521893  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:17 pm 
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Rich wrote:
So where does Özil rank in the all time greatest Arsenal players list? Top 20? Top 50? Top 100?

We’d have to balance the talent of the player against the teams they played in, what they won and their influence.
These lists can’t just be on trophies because someone like Cygwin won more prestigious trophies than Özil, but there must be some bearing so less fashionable players like Ray Parlour aren’t overlooked


It’s easier if you just say where does he feature in the top 20 midfielders rather than all players. I find it difficult with Özil and I’d be even tempted to say Michael Thomas,Paul Davis and David Rocastle would feature higher in my personal preferences. I can effortlessly name 8 players in midfield who made a greater contribution to Arsenal without giving it much thought


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Post #521894  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:29 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
It also can’t, or shouldn’t, be focussed on the more sexy positions like midfield and forwards. Otherwise Campbell, Adams, McLintock, O’Leary, Keown and others, let alone numerous full backs and in goal the likes of Seaman, Jennings and Lehmann, wouldn’t get a look in.

From that, no way is Özil anywhere near the top twenty. Indeed, without bothering to list them I’d be very surprised if I couldn’t name fifty better than him. The top hundred would be my guess, but that is taken off the top of my head after reading your post, and without thinking about it.

Certainly not top 50 Bernard, I agree. Struggling to make top 100 I'd say, not on natural ability (he'd be much higher) but on overall contribution to Arsenal.

On overall contribution, would he rate above, say, Brian Talbot? No particularly reason for singling him out, except that that here must be scores and scores of players over the last century and a bit who were stalwarts in their day but are virtually forgotten now.

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Post #521895  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
On overall contribution, would he rate above, say, Brian Talbot? No particularly reason for singling him out, except that that here must be scores and scores of players over the last century and a bit who were stalwarts in their day but are virtually forgotten now.

I try to only compare players I’ve seen. I can’t compare Liam Brady with Alex James, for example, or Ian Wright with Ted Drake.


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Post #521896  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:21 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
On overall contribution, would he rate above, say, Brian Talbot? No particularly reason for singling him out, except that that here must be scores and scores of players over the last century and a bit who were stalwarts in their day but are virtually forgotten now.

I try to only compare players I’ve seen. I can’t compare Liam Brady with Alex James, for example, or Ian Wright with Ted Drake.

People tend to use the 'best of all time' label very carelessly.

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Post #521897  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:03 pm 
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Just been reading about an 18 year old right winger called Noni Madueke, he’s from Barnet, was in Spurs youth team but they lost him to PSV, he’s played 22 times for them this season and got 7 goals and 8 assists.

It’s strange, an Young English player doing great things abroad and I’ve barely heard a peep about him from the media in this country, and certainly nothing about Spurs failing to keep him in their team.

One to keep an eye on as you’d imagine having grown up in north London he may want to return to this country at some point. Lots more young English players starting to be brave enough to move abroad at a young age, European clubs are starting to bring that talent over as well because they realise the English coaching has changed to become far more technical based than the old fashioned values the English system held dear for so long.

Wonder if Hodd knows anything about this kid?


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Post #521898  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:38 pm 
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Tomori the 23 year old chelsea CB is going to seal a loan to AC Milan, with an option to buy for £27m! This is a good young player who has played 1 season in the prem and has been dropped this season. Of Chelsea sell him for £27m that is crazy money. I see this time and time again from other clubs but never from us. I feel like we’re about 10 years behind the likes of chelsea in terms of selling and loaning out players


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Post #521899  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:14 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Tomori the 23 year old chelsea CB is going to seal a loan to AC Milan, with an option to buy for £27m! This is a good young player who has played 1 season in the prem and has been dropped this season. Of Chelsea sell him for £27m that is crazy money. I see this time and time again from other clubs but never from us. I feel like we’re about 10 years behind the likes of chelsea in terms of selling and loaning out players

There must be a reason. They must be doing something we simply aren’t. Maybe simply they have better players worth more


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Post #521900  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:20 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
Tomori the 23 year old chelsea CB is going to seal a loan to AC Milan, with an option to buy for £27m! This is a good young player who has played 1 season in the prem and has been dropped this season. Of Chelsea sell him for £27m that is crazy money. I see this time and time again from other clubs but never from us. I feel like we’re about 10 years behind the likes of chelsea in terms of selling and loaning out players

There must be a reason. They must be doing something we simply aren’t. Maybe simply they have better players worth more

I think they do have better youngsters, Hudson-odoi, James, Abraham and Mount are very good, but we still have some good home grown guys. It’s more what they extract for players they don’t want or extract from the loan system. In 2018/19 chelsea earned £35m in loan fees alone.
I think it is just an attention to detail. We’ve hardly been known as driving the best value in the market for buying and selling players in the last 10 years so I don’t expect us to be any better in the loan system.

Look at Liverpool as well. £23m for Brewster who is at the moment not as good as Nketiah, no arsenal fan would expect us to be able to get that for Eddie. They got £20m for Solanke and £15m for Jordan Ibe.

We are miles behind.


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Post #521901  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:26 pm 
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Paul has changed his social media M10 logo to Fenerbache colours, he’s definitely going.
So Özil, Kolasinac gone, Sokratis very likely to go this window. That’s probably as good as we could have hoped for in terms of outs. Really need another player in


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Post #521902  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Few rumours around that we’re in for Woodman the young English gk at Swansea on loan from newcastle


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Post #521903  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:23 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Paul has changed his social media M10 logo to Fenerbache colours, he’s definitely going.
So Özil, Kolasinac gone, Sokratis very likely to go this window. That’s probably as good as we could have hoped for in terms of outs. Really need another player in

Of course ‘Paul’ was a great autocorrect from Özil


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Post #521904  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:29 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Rich wrote:
Paul has changed his social media M10 logo to Fenerbache colours, he’s definitely going.
So Özil, Kolasinac gone, Sokratis very likely to go this window. That’s probably as good as we could have hoped for in terms of outs. Really need another player in

Of course ‘Paul’ was a great autocorrect from Özil

I was hesitating to ask. I was worried that everyone except me would know who Paul is. :icon_mrgreen:

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Post #521905  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:31 pm 
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One of the best managed games I've seen from OGS.

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Post #521906  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:01 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
Of course ‘Paul’ was a great autocorrect from Özil

I was hesitating to ask. I was worried that everyone except me would know who Paul is. :icon_mrgreen:

Me too :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:


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Post #521907  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:26 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I was hesitating to ask. I was worried that everyone except me would know who Paul is. :icon_mrgreen:

Me too :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

I was wondering if Paul Merson had come out of retirement to join Fenerbahce?


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Post #521908  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:27 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
Of course ‘Paul’ was a great autocorrect from Özil

I was hesitating to ask. I was worried that everyone except me would know who Paul is. :icon_mrgreen:

Yes, I've been wondering about it all afternoon. Most interesting thing to happen all day!

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Post #521909  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:34 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I was hesitating to ask. I was worried that everyone except me would know who Paul is. :icon_mrgreen:

Yes, I've been wondering about it all afternoon. Most interesting thing to happen all day!

I try to through in a few more autocorrect names if only to keep you all on your toes.


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Post #521910  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:39 pm 
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2 goals for John Stones tonight, he’s come back in from the cold at City and playing brilliantly. Best defence in the league and a great partnership with Dias.
I recall not too long ago there were whispers of Arteta going back to City to try to buy Stones for us when he was out of favour. I quite liked it at the time based on him having big potential, English and a ball playing CB.
Surprised there haven’t been more rumours linking us to City rejects or City youth players. City have a ridiculously talented youth team with many probably unable to see their pathway to the first team, I was half hoping Arteta would use his knowledge and influence to try to poach some.


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Post #521911  Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Yes, I've been wondering about it all afternoon. Most interesting thing to happen all day!

I try to through in a few more autocorrect names if only to keep you all on your toes.

For some silly reason thought of Paul Pogba. :14laughter:

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Post #521912  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:26 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Ornstein reporting Özil to Fenerbache to be done next week. Could be a huge saving for us on just 6 months wages plus any possible loyalty bonus. Although here’s probably an ‘incentive’ from us for him to leave.

Ornstein very accurate on Arsenal news

I read somewhere that Arsenal will be meeting the difference between his Fenerbahce wage and the £350k a week he was on with us. Is that not the case then, as the same report said Özil had made it quite clear to Arsenal that he wouldn’t move this month unless they did that?


No Bernard we played hard ball. Some News magnate has picked up his media rights and is paying £350k to cover his wages weekly.


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Post #521913  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:12 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I read somewhere that Arsenal will be meeting the difference between his Fenerbahce wage and the £350k a week he was on with us. Is that not the case then, as the same report said Özil had made it quite clear to Arsenal that he wouldn’t move this month unless they did that?

No Bernard we played hard ball. Some News magnate has picked up his media rights and is paying £350k to cover his wages weekly.

Thanks. That fits as it explains he is getting his £350k a week from somewhere. The good news is if it’s some sort of magnate rather than Arsenal.


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Post #521914  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:50 am 
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If Tierney and Martinelli are both fit to join the squad tonight that would leave Pablo Mari as the only injured first team player, and his injury is only minor. After years and years of fitness issues we do seem to have turned a corner in this regard.
A lot more of our players seem to be more robust.


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Post #521915  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:40 am 
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https://www.spotrac.com/epl/payroll/

This website which details all footballer's salaries has us with the 2nd highest wage bill in the league behind Man U. Strangely I find it hard to believe we're ahead of City and Chelsea but also not that hard to believe given some of the bloated figures we pay in what is a bloated squad.

just taking Özil off the payroll drops us to 6th in the list, level with Liverpool.


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Post #521916  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:18 pm 
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All best to your future at Bournemouth Jack Wilshere.

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Post #521917  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Zed wrote:
All best to your future at Bournemouth Jack Wilshere.

Seconded. If (a big if, I know) Jack can stay injury free he has more quality and class than most. Would love to see him help Bournemouth get promoted and show that quality in the Premier. Good luck to him anyway, he really deserves a good run.


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Post #521918  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:54 pm 
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So, hands up then.

Who’s doing this?

https://www.skysports.com/share/12188507

:1laughter:

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Post #521919  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 pm 
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Mustafi on twitter in a message to Özil
Bro, you have been the most unselfish player on and off the pitch, I have ever shared the dressing room with. You will be always remembered as the Assist King. Unfortunately we as a team haven’t been able to assist you when you needed us the most. All the best

Lots of talk of the Bundasliga clique at Arsenal - Özil, Kolasinac, Mustafi, Sokratis - not Xhaka apparently.

If you have a situation at a club like has happened with Özil, then you see messages like Musafi's then it is clean there is a divided dressing room. We must do as much as we can to sort this out. The 4 above are gone, or going. There were rumours of Luiz not towing the line, true or not he's gone in the summer.


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Post #521920  Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:10 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
So, hands up then.

Who’s doing this?

https://www.skysports.com/share/12188507

:1laughter:

Bit too modern for me LTG :laughing7:


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