Fixtures Sunday November 29th - Wolves - Emirates Stadium - 7:15 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                    Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:50 pm

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: Ash, Bing [Bot] and 6 guests

 
Post #517721  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29847

Surreal. Among other fascist related tactics, at some polling stations in some states, guns are allowed in the voting center? WTF?


_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517722  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18054

Bernard wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Wilson behind Leno and Lukic - methinks not! Nay sir, never.

A matter of opinion, but mine is that Leno is comfortably ahead of Wilson and Lukic a bit in front of him. Wilson was extremely good when an opposition forward was through on him with a one on one.

What was Kelsey like? My dad always told me that he was a terrific keeper but as he stopped playing in 1962 the only time I saw him was running the stadium shop.
Your dad was right. Jack Kelsey was a great. For years he played behind an Arsenal defence as tough as a wet paper bag and performed heroics. In a generally mediocre period in the club's history he was the one world class player we had. The fans loved him.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517723  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16916

5 games down and we’ve won the 3 we would expect to win and lose the two we would expect to lose. The ‘we’ being the fans.
Leicester at home represents the best test of where we currently stand in those tight 3rd to 8th places teams. Win and we can say it’s a good start to the season, lose and it will really feel like a missed opportunity considering the stuttering form of the other top teams


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517724  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 13434

Rich wrote:
5 games down and we’ve won the 3 we would expect to win and lose the two we would expect to lose. The ‘we’ being the fans.
Leicester at home represents the best test of where we currently stand in those tight 3rd to 8th places teams. Win and we can say it’s a good start to the season, lose and it will really feel like a missed opportunity considering the stuttering form of the other top teams

Quite so. But I hope fans can stay strongly behind Arteta even if this season is a bit disappointing.

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517725  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

First goal is a public execution from Arsenal fans if it’s Leno

https://youtu.be/6TKfspbtlRA


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517726  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14322
Location: Stockholm

Rich wrote:
Martinez pushed a ball straight out to the Leeds striker to tap home. No different to what Leno did v City

Just saw the goal, and it was actually a worse error than the one from Leno (which I wouldn't even call much of an error). A weaker shot from a worse angle. I'm sure Martinez is going to be a great goalkeeper, but I also feel like it's being forgotten what a difficult summer it was in terms of transfers, and selling him certainly helped us getting Partey. Would rather have Partey than two great keepers.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517727  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm
Posts: 473

old man of hoy wrote:
Yes well done, but it stands rather starkly in contrast to the Uighur situation?


How about the ethnic cleansing in Syria, the Turkish treatment of the Kurds or the Armenian genocide denial? Any thoughts Mesut?

_________________
niets is sterker dan dat ene woord


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517728  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16916

Decaf wrote:
Rich wrote:
5 games down and we’ve won the 3 we would expect to win and lose the two we would expect to lose. The ‘we’ being the fans.
Leicester at home represents the best test of where we currently stand in those tight 3rd to 8th places teams. Win and we can say it’s a good start to the season, lose and it will really feel like a missed opportunity considering the stuttering form of the other top teams

Quite so. But I hope fans can stay strongly behind Arteta even if this season is a bit disappointing.

Arsenal needed an entire squad rebuild, and have done for a while. I think 3/4 of the first team squad could/should not be here. The trouble is we can't undergo a first team revolution like some other clubs can. So far it looks like we've got 2 very good first 11 additions - at a price. What we also need is for Arteta to bring on some existing players to elevate them to a level where they take us to the top 4. Arteta has improved a number of players, but he's improved them by making them more solid, cutting out mistakes and giving the team a clear plan on the pitch. I want us to take a player from average performances to one the opposition genuinely fear.
If we look at 2 great first 11 additions per year then we need to be looking for a striker and another CB next year.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517729  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 13434

rotterdamnation wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Yes well done, but it stands rather starkly in contrast to the Uighur situation?


How about the ethnic cleansing in Syria, the Turkish treatment of the Kurds or the Armenian genocide denial? Any thoughts Mesut?

Hardly anyone has a completely consistent and balanced worldview. In fact being inconsistent and having a convenient blind eye is a precondition for holding strong 'us and them' supposedly Left or Right wing views.

However, while I think some consistency is good, I don't think that, if someone like Özil says something about a particular issue, the correct response is a sweeping "what about?". This would invite a response like 'what about the Batavia massacre' or 'what about the participation of the Dutch in the slave trade?'

Of course these are absurd arguments but ...

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517730  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29847

A draw at home to Leicester will not tell us much, but its still fairly early in the season. I'm inclined to give Arteta 10 or a dozen games in to see what is really under the hood. By that time we should have everyone fit for the most part, and have faced a variety of opposition. The player should have a fairly good grasp on what he wants.

_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517731  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16916

After watching an incredibly dull and risk averse 0-0 draw between Man U and Chelsea the point about the attributes of the modern player changing struck home even more. Wenger mentioned it recently how players are more like athletes, the physical attributes and, or have, overtaken more technical ones. The knock on effect (or as the result of) is the change in formations to steer away from the traditional No.10, and having winders who are more like the wingers of old with pace but who don't come inside for tricky short passes. Central midfield is all about athleticism, pressing, box-to-box, high tempo, high energy - but lacking skill.

It also coincides with so many teams, certainly in the premier league, looking far more dangerous on the counter attack and also so unimaginative against the low block. If you go through the league I'd say 3/4 of the teams rely on the counter attack, direct football and outright pace as their main source of attacking play.

Footballl always goes in cycles. The english league historically was about pace, strength and athleticism, then more technique came in and even weaker teams were striving to control the possession of the ball more, now we've gone back to where we were. England is almost most suited to this change because of the leniency of the referees.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517732  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29847

I wonder how a Zidane or Ronaldinho would have made out in todays game?

_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517733  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:33 pm
Posts: 655

This from a mate who’s a Leicester supporter. Don’t know if it’s true

The last time Leicester won at arsenal was 1973. 2-0. I don't know why but I missed it
Len Glover and Mike Stringfellow got the goals. Donny Osmond was number one with young love and a pint of beer was 10 pence


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517734  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm
Posts: 473

So why not just shut up and let your feet do the talking? Özil is a lazy player who parasitizes on his talent and a hypocrite. I'm sure Arteta doesn't play him because he's a hypocrite.

_________________
niets is sterker dan dat ene woord


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517735  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm
Posts: 473

I'll always remember Iwan Roberts ending Ian Selley's promising career. W#####

_________________
niets is sterker dan dat ene woord


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517736  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 4570

AmericanGooner wrote:
Surreal. Among other fascist related tactics, at some polling stations in some states, guns are allowed in the voting center? WTF?


It's the young Turks. Seriously?

_________________
"If you do not believe you can do it then you have no chance at all"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517737  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29847

I guess we won't have to worry about the Toffees threatening the invincibles.

_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517738  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18054

Decaf wrote:
rotterdamnation wrote:

How about the ethnic cleansing in Syria, the Turkish treatment of the Kurds or the Armenian genocide denial? Any thoughts Mesut?

Hardly anyone has a completely consistent and balanced worldview. In fact being inconsistent and having a convenient blind eye is a precondition for holding strong 'us and them' supposedly Left or Right wing views.

However, while I think some consistency is good, I don't think that, if someone like Özil says something about a particular issue, the correct response is a sweeping "what about?". This would invite a response like 'what about the Batavia massacre' or 'what about the participation of the Dutch in the slave trade?'

Of course these are absurd arguments but ...
Indeed, and my question was about Arsenal's apparent different reaction to the two humanitarian situations, not Mesut's.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517739  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 2435

old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Hardly anyone has a completely consistent and balanced worldview. In fact being inconsistent and having a convenient blind eye is a precondition for holding strong 'us and them' supposedly Left or Right wing views.

However, while I think some consistency is good, I don't think that, if someone like Özil says something about a particular issue, the correct response is a sweeping "what about?". This would invite a response like 'what about the Batavia massacre' or 'what about the participation of the Dutch in the slave trade?'

Of course these are absurd arguments but ...
Indeed, and my question was about Arsenal's apparent different reaction to the two humanitarian situations, not Mesut's.

Also Nigeria has the largest Muslim population in West Africa. More than 50%. Loads of UK Arsenal fans as well as abroad. Fine with the club acknowledgement, yet club can't be bothered about comments on Muslim persecution in China. Money talks again. :icon_mrgreen:

_________________
Be nice to people on your way up because you meet them on your way down....
Jimmy Durante


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517740  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world.

Not sure what people are expecting.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517741  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 13434

old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Hardly anyone has a completely consistent and balanced worldview. In fact being inconsistent and having a convenient blind eye is a precondition for holding strong 'us and them' supposedly Left or Right wing views.

However, while I think some consistency is good, I don't think that, if someone like Özil says something about a particular issue, the correct response is a sweeping "what about?". This would invite a response like 'what about the Batavia massacre' or 'what about the participation of the Dutch in the slave trade?'

Of course these are absurd arguments but ...
Indeed, and my question was about Arsenal's apparent different reaction to the two humanitarian situations, not Mesut's.

Indeed. No doubt the one is good business (as well as the right thing to do, and contributing to pressure on the government) and the other would be terrible business and actually quite futile ...

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517742  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 13434

Zed wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Indeed, and my question was about Arsenal's apparent different reaction to the two humanitarian situations, not Mesut's.

Also Nigeria has the largest Muslim population in West Africa. More than 50%. Loads of UK Arsenal fans as well as abroad. Fine with the club acknowledgement, yet club can't be bothered about comments on Muslim persecution in China. Money talks again. :icon_mrgreen:

In a very big way. The Chinese don't take criticism kindly.

But I don't think it diminishes the solidarity shown to the Nigerian case.

If a mosquito is bothering me, I happily swot it. If it a lion, I keep as quiet as I can and just back away.

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517743  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 7008

SKY and the EPL can piss right off. Gouging bastards.

Marcus Rashford’s FareShare charity will be getting my £14.95 tonight.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517744  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:06 am
Posts: 13434

AmericanGooner wrote:
I guess we won't have to worry about the Toffees threatening the invincibles.

Indeed! It was never really on ... but 2020 isn't playing by the rules!

_________________
Hamba kakuhle, Madiba


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517745  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 5097
Location: SE9

TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world.

Not sure what people are expecting.

Agree


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517746  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18054

TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world. Not sure what people are expecting.
Surely it is reasonable of fans to ask why there appears to have been a difference in the comments on Uighurs and Nigeria? It may simply be no more than cock up - a case of the club trying to make a decent humanitarian statement now while forgetting their strongly neutral stance previously. Whichever way you see it there is an inconsistency.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517747  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:52 pm
Posts: 18054

bromley gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world.

Not sure what people are expecting.

Agree
Who on earth would disagree with the first irrelevant sentence in TG's post? "Arsenal are a football club, not a vegetable" is another one.

_________________
"Young and caught up in life, we seldom watched the skies.”


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517748  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

old man of hoy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world. Not sure what people are expecting.
Surely it is reasonable of fans to ask why there appears to have been a difference in the comments on Uighurs and Nigeria? It may simply be no more than cock up - a case of the club trying to make a decent humanitarian statement now while forgetting their strongly neutral stance previously. Whichever way you see it there is an inconsistency.


Your talking about comments made on twitter! probably by a 25 year old social media marketing goof on 25k a year

It’s Nigeria comment was like a get well soon card.

Of course the club should be able to distance themselves from Ozils comments if they have to travel to China to conduct friendly matches in pre seasons. How much trouble do you want to encourage.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517749  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 22504

DHD wrote:
SKY and the EPL can piss right off. Gouging bastards.

Marcus Rashford’s FareShare charity will be getting my £14.95 tonight.

You have greater moral fibre than me.

I coughed up the £14.95 after struggling through their incomprehensible system. I created an id on Sky Box Office, logged in and bought the game. Then they sent me an email outlining how I could watch it - iPad, laptop, PC etc but no TV. So I had to cancel the purchase (to be fair they did make that bit easy) and then repurchase it via my TV. All a bit nuts.

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517750  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29847

:icon_mrgreen:


Attachments:


_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"
 Profile  
 
 
Post #517751  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 5097
Location: SE9

old man of hoy wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Agree
Who on earth would disagree with the first irrelevant sentence in TG's post? "Arsenal are a football club, not a vegetable" is another one.

Calm down. I'm sure you understand the point he was making.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517752  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14322
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world.

Not sure what people are expecting.

The club has the option to say nothing about it then, and let Özil's comments just speak for him, if they're so worried about bad PR. Distancing yourself from a comment calling out religious persecution makes it seem like the club finds the comments themselves problematic, which is just a bad look.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517753  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Arsenal are a football club, not an arbitrator for all moral wrong doing in the world.

Not sure what people are expecting.

The club has the option to say nothing about it then, and let Özil's comments just speak for him, if they're so worried about bad PR. Distancing yourself from a comment calling out religious persecution makes it seem like the club finds the comments themselves problematic, which is just a bad look.


People with enough time on their hands to compare different things said on twitter.

There’s a reason to distance themselves. Sporting institutions including the olympics avoid politics at all costs. If not there would be no olympics and British clubs would be boycotted in Europe because of the falklands, Iraq and all sorts. Nobody’s ever playing a Russian team etc etc

Also all of this misses the actual point, it’s all made up anyway by Mesut as an excuse for him being dropped because he’s had a deckchair out during games for the past 3 years.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517754  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:51 pm
Posts: 473

Hazuki wrote:
Distancing yourself from a comment calling out religious persecution makes it seem like the club finds the comments themselves problematic, which is just a bad look.


If the best man at your wedding is a dictator (not Borat) these comments could be seen as such.

Let's give Özil the Nobel prize.

_________________
niets is sterker dan dat ene woord


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517755  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14322
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
There’s a reason to distance themselves. Sporting institutions including the olympics avoid politics at all costs. If not there would be no olympics and British clubs would be boycotted in Europe because of the falklands, Iraq and all sorts. Nobody’s ever playing a Russian team etc etc

This is slippery slope argumentation at its worst. It's perfectly possible to not distance yourself from the comments Özil made without having to completely boycott China, let alone Russia. I'm not asking the club to publicly condemn China or get involved in the general election. Just don't act like Özil said anything wrong, because he didn't. No action would've been preferable to wrong action here.

And this isn't about the decision to drop him - I have no problem with that and I agree it hasn't got anything to do with his comments. Still think the club acted poorly.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517756  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14322
Location: Stockholm

rotterdamnation wrote:
If the best man at your wedding is a dictator

This is still completely irrelevant to everything being discussed now, so I'm not sure why you keep banging on about it. Yes, buddying it up with Erdogan makes it possible to see Özil as a hypocrite. But it has nothing to do with how the club handled his China comments.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517757  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 22504

More rubbish keeping. This time to let Newcastle equalise.

Sharp end though. A few errors before his.

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517758  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

Interesting team.

That looks like 4 at the back to me. Arteta May now think he’s has the personnel to play the system.

*%^@ Özil, come on you gunners


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517759  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14322
Location: Stockholm

TOP GUN wrote:
Interesting team.

That looks like 4 at the back to me. Arteta May now think he’s has the personnel to play the system.

*%^@ Özil, come on you gunners

Agreed!

Really like seeing that midfield three, there's a lot of different qualities in there and hopefully it can give us a little more control.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #517760  Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12495

Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Interesting team.

That looks like 4 at the back to me. Arteta May now think he’s has the personnel to play the system.

*%^@ Özil, come on you gunners

Agreed!

Really like seeing that midfield three, there's a lot of different qualities in there and hopefully it can give us a little more control.

Big game for ceballos this. You would have to assume he’s the creative option from that three picked.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 519194 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 12941, 12942, 12943, 12944, 12945, 12946, 12947 ... 12980  Next

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: Ash, Bing [Bot] and 6 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018