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Post #516441  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:51 pm 
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Pépé is not a winner. He doesn’t give a shite.

Total waste of money

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Post #516442  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:52 pm 
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I just wish we'd played the ball over the top way way more. Every time we've done it we've been dangerous


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Post #516443  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:54 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Pépé is not a winner. He doesn’t give a shite.

Total waste of money


Honestly hard to disagree. There’s Sanlehi “outsmarting the market” no wonder he was given the tin tack.


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Post #516444  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:54 pm 
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People on twitter blaming Leno for the third goal.

Leno must think he’s living in a Christopher Nolan movie where he’s being judged on his actions that are occurring in a parallel dimension not the actual present day.


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Post #516445  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:57 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Pépé is not a winner. He doesn’t give a shite.

Total waste of money

I can’t disagree either but it’s just funny that he obviously does have a great left foot and is definitely able to provide match winning moments like at West Ham last year. You just don’t know when he will turn up or not.

Can’t imagine the impact Zaha would have had instead if we opted for him. It would be huge


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Post #516446  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:59 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
People on twitter blaming Leno for the third goal.

Leno must think he’s living in a Christopher Nolan movie where he’s being judged on his actions that are occurring in a parallel dimension not the actual present day.


Ha. I’ve not seen any criticism (that wasn’t in jest) of Leno other than what you’ve just described. He came and then retreated because it was landing right on Luiz’s head, seems fair enough. Unless he’d been loitering on his right post for no reason he had no chance with the save. Keeper the last area of concern in this team.


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Post #516447  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:59 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
People on twitter blaming Leno for the third goal.

Leno must think he’s living in a Christopher Nolan movie where he’s being judged on his actions that are occurring in a parallel dimension not the actual present day.

Blamed for not saving a shot that went in off the post? or not coming to claim the cross?

It was Luiz's poor header and lack of cover on the edge of the box to blame. I see CB make those headers, they cant quite get enough power on it so they should just be heading it back out towards the touchline rather than in to the centre of the goal


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Post #516448  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:03 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
john1 wrote:
Pépé is not a winner. He doesn’t give a shite.

Total waste of money

I can’t disagree either but it’s just funny that he obviously does have a great left foot and is definitely able to provide match winning moments like at West Ham last year. You just don’t know when he will turn up or not.

Can’t imagine the impact Zaha would have had instead if we opted for him. It would be huge


Pépé has the technical skills of en elite player but sadly does not have the footballing brain or mentality of an elite player. We probably paid £45m too much for him on the evidence of the last season or so.


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Post #516449  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
People on twitter blaming Leno for the third goal.

Leno must think he’s living in a Christopher Nolan movie where he’s being judged on his actions that are occurring in a parallel dimension not the actual present day.

Blamed for not saving a shot that went in off the post? or not coming to claim the cross?

It was Luiz's poor header and lack of cover on the edge of the box to blame. I see CB make those headers, they cant quite get enough power on it so they should just be heading it back out towards the touchline rather than in to the centre of the goal


The suggestion is he should have been commanding his box despite it being an obvious Luiz clearance. Le grove and others bashing him.


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Post #516450  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:05 pm 
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Is it me or is Lazazette a yard slower than he used to be, not just in terms of pure pace but in terms of the speed with which he turns and gets shots away and things like that.


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Post #516451  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:06 pm 
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Ash wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
People on twitter blaming Leno for the third goal.

Leno must think he’s living in a Christopher Nolan movie where he’s being judged on his actions that are occurring in a parallel dimension not the actual present day.


Ha. I’ve not seen any criticism (that wasn’t in jest) of Leno other than what you’ve just described. He came and then retreated because it was landing right on Luiz’s head, seems fair enough. Unless he’d been loitering on his right post for no reason he had no chance with the save. Keeper the last area of concern in this team.


Leno when he gets home tonight.


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Post #516452  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:06 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
Blamed for not saving a shot that went in off the post? or not coming to claim the cross?

It was Luiz's poor header and lack of cover on the edge of the box to blame. I see CB make those headers, they cant quite get enough power on it so they should just be heading it back out towards the touchline rather than in to the centre of the goal


The suggestion is he should have been commanding his box despite it being an obvious Luiz clearance. Le grove and others bashing him.


Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.


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Post #516453  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:08 pm 
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We were better second half and I thought Holding did better second half too. Was strong in several one-v-ones. Probably not top four standard but did ok tonight.


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Post #516454  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:09 pm 
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Ceballos made a huge difference when he came on, much more mobile and confident in possession and threaded several defence splitting passes.


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Post #516455  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:09 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

The suggestion is he should have been commanding his box despite it being an obvious Luiz clearance. Le grove and others bashing him.


Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.

Dude you gotta be *%^@*** kidding right :laughing7:

If the other 10 players can’t get the further ball up the pitch what can we expect from poor Leno


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Post #516456  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:13 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.

Dude you gotta be *%^@*** kidding right :laughing7:

If the other 10 players can’t get the further ball up the pitch what can we expect from poor Leno


Not kidding mate, Arteta tells his players to deliberately wait until they are closed down before passing so as to create space and break the press but Leno is too slow with his passing and too often plays a ball out that puts the defender into trouble.

Martinez made a ballsup today as well but luckily for him the goal was disallowed so this is no Leno hating.


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Post #516457  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:14 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

The suggestion is he should have been commanding his box despite it being an obvious Luiz clearance. Le grove and others bashing him.


Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.

Absolutely- numerous instances of him passing to players who are being closed down or about to be. Pépé 72 mil and he can’t take a decent corner. Why Arteta continually refuses to pick or bring on Saka is of more concern. He can make a difference. We were totally outplayed and as was previously mentioned - Leeds gave them a game - we didn’t.

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Post #516458  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:18 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
socrates wrote:

Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.

Absolutely- numerous instances of him passing to players who are being closed down or about to be. Pépé 72 mil and he can’t take a decent corner. Why Arteta continually refuses to pick or bring on Saka is of more concern. He can make a difference. We were totally outplayed and as was previously mentioned - Leeds gave them a game - we didn’t.


Odd that we didn't bring on Saka after his midweek performance.

I think Arteta has made some dubious selection and substitution calls but has largely got away with them. Tonight he didn't.


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Post #516459  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:20 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Dude you gotta be *%^@*** kidding right :laughing7:

If the other 10 players can’t get the further ball up the pitch what can we expect from poor Leno


Not kidding mate, Arteta tells his players to deliberately wait until they are closed down before passing so as to create space and break the press but Leno is too slow with his passing and too often plays a ball out that puts the defender into trouble.


Leno isn’t responsible for the tactics, he didn’t put a foot wrong in that game. People also suggesting he should have come for the second goal and took it off both Bellerin and holdings head.

Cancel culture in effect.


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Post #516460  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:21 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

Not kidding mate, Arteta tells his players to deliberately wait until they are closed down before passing so as to create space and break the press but Leno is too slow with his passing and too often plays a ball out that puts the defender into trouble.


Leno isn’t responsible for the tactics, he didn’t put a foot wrong in that game. People also suggesting he should have come for the second goal and took it off both Bellerin and holdings head.

Cancel culture in effect.


Sorry mate, he's nervy with the ball at his feet and that transmits itself to the other defenders.

Leno should probably have done better with the first goal as well.


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Post #516461  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:22 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
socrates wrote:

Leno made some great reflex saves tonight but the truth is he doesn't command his box and his footwork is atrocious, he continually puts players into trouble with little short passes.

Absolutely- numerous instances of him passing to players who are being closed down or about to be. Pépé 72 mil and he can’t take a decent corner. Why Arteta continually refuses to pick or bring on Saka is of more concern. He can make a difference. We were totally outplayed and as was previously mentioned - Leeds gave them a game - we didn’t.

That Liverpool performance was streets ahead of how they played against Leeds. They were really sloppy against Leeds. Listen to Klopp's interview. He was buzzing. He thought they were brilliant tonight and he was right.

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Post #516462  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:28 pm 
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We need more dribblers and ball carriers and a more progressive midfield.


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Post #516463  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:30 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Leno isn’t responsible for the tactics, he didn’t put a foot wrong in that game. People also suggesting he should have come for the second goal and took it off both Bellerin and holdings head.

Cancel culture in effect.


Sorry mate, he's nervy with the ball at his feet and that transmits itself to the other defenders.

Leno should probably have done better with the first goal as well.


What salah inside the area on his left foot. That’s searching


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Post #516464  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:36 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Is it me or is Lazazette a yard slower than he used to be, not just in terms of pure pace but in terms of the speed with which he turns and gets shots away and things like that.

I’ve been thinking the same for a while socrates. Lacazette is only 29 so shouldn’t be noticeably slower, but I have to agree that he is looking slower. I suppose he was never that quick anyway, so maybe it’s my imagination rather than him actually being slower.

His miss when the Ceballos through ball gave him a one on one was very disappointing.


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Post #516465  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Liverpool look streets ahead of everyone else in the league. It's no disgrace to lose up there and we need to dust ourselves off and not get downhearted about it.


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Post #516466  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:36 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

Sorry mate, he's nervy with the ball at his feet and that transmits itself to the other defenders.

Leno should probably have done better with the first goal as well.


What salah inside the area on his left foot. That’s searching


It looked like he just parried it up in the air. I could be wrong but it looked a little soft to me.


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Post #516467  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:37 pm 
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socrates wrote:
We need more dribblers and ball carriers and a more progressive midfield.

Like Aouar!


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Post #516468  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:39 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
socrates wrote:
Is it me or is Lazazette a yard slower than he used to be, not just in terms of pure pace but in terms of the speed with which he turns and gets shots away and things like that.

I’ve been thinking the same for a while socrates. Lacazette is only 29 so shouldn’t be noticeably slower, but I have to agree that he is looking slower. I suppose he was never that quick anyway, so maybe it’s my imagination rather than him actually being slower.

His miss when the Ceballos through ball gave him a one on one was very disappointing.


He had 3 golden chances tonight, one he took but it was more of a miskick than a composed finish, the 2nd he tried a dink but the execution was poor (notwithstanding that it was offside) and the 3rd just lacked composure.


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Post #516469  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

What salah inside the area on his left foot. That’s searching


It looked like he just parried it up in the air. I could be wrong but it looked a little soft to me.

Basic keeping - don’t parry - put the ball out of play.

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Post #516470  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:40 pm 
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socrates wrote:
We need more dribblers and ball carriers and a more progressive midfield.


At some point I like to see Arteta switch to playing with 3 CMs rather than 3 CBs.


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Post #516471  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:43 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
Liverpool look streets ahead of everyone else in the league. It's no disgrace to lose up there and we need to dust ourselves off and not get downhearted about it.

I agree. Liverpool away is on paper our hardest game of the season. We lost but after being completely outplayed in the first half, we at least gave them a game in the second half.


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Post #516472  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:44 pm 
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Rich wrote:
socrates wrote:
We need more dribblers and ball carriers and a more progressive midfield.

Like Aouar!


We also need power and pace


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Post #516473  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Most of not all teams will lose to Liverpool with the way they played tonight, particularly first half. The biggest disappointment for me was how we couldn’t or didn’t utilise the one big thing that Liverpool were weak with, that ball over the top. Liverpool press so high to keep pressure and keep attacking, the deeper run and ball over the top we’re the only times we looked dangerous and it was a ball we should have played far far more. The difficulty was getting the time on the ball to pick the pass.

In hindsight Ceballos should have started. There were 3-4 occasions in the time he was on the pitch where he was just so calm under the press, realising that Liverpool were cutting off passing channels rather than coming for him directly, so turn, head up, awareness and dribble 10-15 yards out of trouble, commit the man and make the pass. Xhaka and Elneny will never be able to do that.

I posted recently about the left sided CB being overly weighted as our best and was worried at the time that we’d need to have balance over Picking the best 3 players. Gabriel is better than Holding but I can understand why Holding was picked. I think we need to see Saliba v Liverpool in the cup on Thursday

A moan about var. why no slow mo critical review of the mane elbow and the jota handball? I hate the handball rule but that ball for Jota’s goal was so close to brushing his arm, or did brush his arm. No problem if it was reviewed and the goal given but to not even give it the scrutiny other handballs have been is not good.
Watch the Mane yellow card in the 3rd minute, excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent? I’d say so, he clearly looks for Tierney, has his forearm out and follows it through like a punch to Tierneys face. I’m not surprised it wasn’t a red given the status of the team and that it was the 3rd minute but again it didn’t even get a var review where the ref was asked if he might want to look at it again.

Finally the Lacazette chance, so frustrating, ultimately it would have probably spurred Liverpool on to score again, I think they would have won at least 3-2 but those are massive chances in big games. Can’t miss them simple as that.


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Post #516474  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:48 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Like Aouar!


We also need power and pace

Like Partey!


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Post #516475  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:49 pm 
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I believe in the first half Willian had 8 touches and VAn Dyke had about 80. Why Saka cannot get in this team is without explanation. I bet he is regretting signing the extension to the contract. There is a real danger he will be lost at our club.

Willian Was bought in for these games and he has played well once against a team who are going to be relegated.

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Post #516476  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:49 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Rich wrote:
Like Aouar!


We also need power and pace

And energy. Against West Ham we looked like a disabled team as far as getting round the pitch was concerned.


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Post #516477  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:54 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Liverpool look streets ahead of everyone else in the league. It's no disgrace to lose up there and we need to dust ourselves off and not get downhearted about it.

I agree. Liverpool away is on paper our hardest game of the season. We lost but after being completely outplayed in the first half, we at least gave them a game in the second half.

If Liverpool don’t walk the league this year it will be a massive upset, as big as when Man U were in their pomp.
They are the only settled, injury free top team with no weak areas and have only deepened and strengthens their squad. Thiago, Jota and the back up left back. A couple of youngsters who are coming through, they are stronger than last year.
Everyone else has a big area of weakness, too small a squad, bedding in new players, or a Manager who can’t influence matches.

Liverpool by 20 points again.


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Post #516478  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:57 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I believe in the first half Willian had 8 touches and VAn Dyke had about 80. Why Saka cannot get in this team is without explanation. I bet he is regretting signing the extension to the contract. There is a real danger he will be lost at our club.

Willian Was bought in for these games and he has played well once against a team who are going to be relegated.

Willian has only had 3 games. And he hardly had much service today

Saka suffers from the current formation and his own versatility.
I think Saka would be best on the left of a 4-3-3, it is a formation I’d like to see us play at home when teams sit back against us. Saka at left wing back needs to be played more, he offers more drifting in to central midfield


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Post #516479  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:57 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I agree. Liverpool away is on paper our hardest game of the season. We lost but after being completely outplayed in the first half, we at least gave them a game in the second half.

If Liverpool don’t walk the league this year it will be a massive upset, as big as when Man U were in their pomp.
They are the only settled, injury free top team with no weak areas and have only deepened and strengthens their squad. Thiago, Jota and the back up left back. A couple of youngsters who are coming through, they are stronger than last year.
Everyone else has a big area of weakness, too small a squad, bedding in new players, or a Manager who can’t influence matches.

Liverpool by 20 points again.


Maybe injuries will slow them down.


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Post #516480  Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:00 pm 
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Goonie wrote:
Rich wrote:
If Liverpool don’t walk the league this year it will be a massive upset, as big as when Man U were in their pomp.
They are the only settled, injury free top team with no weak areas and have only deepened and strengthens their squad. Thiago, Jota and the back up left back. A couple of youngsters who are coming through, they are stronger than last year.
Everyone else has a big area of weakness, too small a squad, bedding in new players, or a Manager who can’t influence matches.

Liverpool by 20 points again.

Maybe injuries will slow them down.

If they lost van Dijk it would, but they just don’t get long injuries or any to their key players. Van Dijk has played 90odd straight games in the prem, salah/mane/firminho have only missed something like 30 of the last 300 games combined. Trent and Robertson similar.
But I think they are set up to cater for injuries better than any team as well.
I’d still like to see it though, especially when you see us have at least two season ending injuries to an important player every season


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