Fixtures Monday September 28th - Liverpool - Anfield - 8:00 Pm

Kick-Off

       Injuries                    Steve Gleiber



Get the Latest Post Go to the Bottom of Page It is currently Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:06 pm

All times are UTC


  


Reply to topic

Users browsing this forum: Decaf and 5 guests

 
Post #513521  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:29 pm
Posts: 4401

What f####king game was that muppet Rodgers watching. Just said they were the better team 11 v 11.
We should have been out of sight by half time.
Very frustrating to drop those 2 points.
I felt it would be a struggle to hold on once Eddie got sent off
It was slightly reckless but not a red.
F###king ridiculous decision.
Watching that vardy foot in the face for mustafi it looks like he knows exactly what he is doing.
Cant stand him. He always bloody scores against us. C###!


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513522  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 6946

No injury and no trainer on the pitch but serious foul play and a 3 match ban

Vardy kicks Mustafi full in the face with a challenge that is the very definition of “out of control”; look at the stud marks on his face.

Compare and contrast.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513523  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12121

Accidentally kick someone in the knee = evil thug straight red

Accidentally kick someone in the head= wasn’t on purpose that’s fine


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513524  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14187
Location: Stockholm

But the situations aren't remotely the same. Vardy hits Mustafi in the face when rolling around after a bit of a tumble. That can easily be explained as being part of his natural movement, not easy to control exactly how you land after a fall. I'm not saying Vardy is completely innocent, but it's much harder to judge.

Nketiah putting his studs into the Leicester player is part of a challenge he makes for the ball. If you're going to make a challenge like that you need to make sure you get the ball, not the player.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513525  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

I know a Saints player got a red against us last week but that was for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity. Can anyone remember when the last red before that was and when the last one for serious foul play was?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513526  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 6946

Hazuki wrote:
If you're going to make a challenge like that you need to make sure you get the ball, not the player.


But why does that apply to Eddie and not to Vardy?

Vardy was clearly challenging for the ball too.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513527  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

Hazuki wrote:
But the situations aren't remotely the same. Vardy hits Mustafi in the face when rolling around after a bit of a tumble. That can easily be explained as being part of his natural movement, not easy to control exactly how you land after a fall

I don’t think Vardy’s fall and leg swinging round were part of a natural movement at all, who really falls like that with a leg swinging out, no doubt in my mind he made sure he left something in there, didn’t mean to kick his face of course.
It’s not a red because you’d having to be giving reds by reading a players mind whether he intended it but Nketiah’s was never a red either.
I bet I can spot an identical tackle before the season is out or that has probably happened to us this season that won’t or wasn’t even reviewed


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513528  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

With Eddie banned he almost certainly starts the FA Cup semi v city. Does it mean Aubameyang playing some games at CF flanked by Saka and Pépé?
Does it mean a call up for Balogun to the bench, we don’t have any other strikers as martinelli is out and John-jules was on loan so not sure he can play


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513529  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 12121

The ball had gone. He’s swinging his leg to specifically boot the Guy. Maybe not intentionally in the head. Arteta is right.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513530  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14187
Location: Stockholm

DHD wrote:
But why does that apply to Eddie and not to Vardy?

Vardy was clearly challenging for the ball too.

Vardy struck Mustafi as part of his fall, after a clean duel for the ball, so it's a very different challenge.

Basically, for me the difference is this: Vardy only deserves a red card if he deliberately kicked Mustafi. Nketiah deserves a red card whatever his intentions were.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513531  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 6946

Hazuki wrote:
DHD wrote:
But why does that apply to Eddie and not to Vardy?

Vardy was clearly challenging for the ball too.

Vardy struck Mustafi as part of his fall, after a clean duel for the ball, so it's a very different challenge.

Basically, for me the difference is this: Vardy only deserves a red card if he deliberately kicked Mustafi. Nketiah deserves a red card whatever his intentions were.


You seem very certain Haz.

We’ve had 50 repeats of Eddie’s challenge but I’ve only seen Vardy’s once in replay. Nonetheless, I think I take a different view.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513532  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:37 pm
Posts: 9369

Evening all, I can see why Eddie got a red, I dont agree with it but I will say if Eddie had started the game and made that same challenge after the few mins he was on the pitch he would never have been sent off.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513533  Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:37 pm
Posts: 9369

Vardy wasn't offside for the goal but Perez was and the ball clearly bounces off his foot onto the ground before Vardy scores.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513534  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 8717
Location: Singapore

For me, it is one point further from relegation. And that is positive for us. I am looking forward to a younger, more energetic and eager crop of players next season. Add a few matured and committed players to it. Come on Arsenal!

_________________
A new Chapter awaits!


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513535  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 8158

gooner7 wrote:
I am looking forward to a younger, more energetic and eager crop of players next season. Add a few matured and committed players to it. Come on Arsenal!

It’ll largely be the same players with maybe one or two new faces. I’m pretty sure there won’t be wholesale changes with many new players coming in.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513536  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29578

I'm willing to struggle and find our footing if we go the young, dynamic players route. That type of squad needs a strong captain. Ajax I think went that route, the German national team did it several years ago to some extent.

(ages since goonerguru has been on here welcome back).

_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513537  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

This challenge was only a yellow. There are hundreds of images all over the internet of tackles very similar to what Aubameyang was sent off for v Palace and none of them got a red


Attachments:
File comment: Remember this was only a yellow

 Profile  
 
 
Post #513538  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

Consistency is awful even with VAR. Aubameyang got sent off for this tackle, the palace player (Cahill) didn’t. I’m damned if I can see the difference


Attachments:


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513539  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:23 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 3341
Location: Waltham Abbey, Essex

I've reconsidered and agree it should have been no more for Eddie than a yellow. Ref and VAR missed so much today. Wonder why?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513540  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

Saw another article about the players who've left Arsenal and won trophies, this one was Oxlade-Chamberlain. Whilst I think he would start in our midfield and he probably has improved as a central midfielder since he joined Liverpool is he really any better overall, or is he a player who has 1 fine game in 5 and struggles to hold down a starting 11 place. How much did Ox contribute to the title win? The reality is Liverpool could have signed Elneny instead of Ox and still won the title. There is something that is likeable about him as a player but he was and still is so inconsistent, and often injured - for me Arsenal still got the better end of a £40m deal


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513541  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:04 am
Posts: 6023
Location: Townsville Australia

Just watched the game again. Disappointed we could not hold on. I think so mention has to be made of their goal with a ball that should never have got all the way across to Vardy. If it had happened under Emery everyone would be up in arms but hardly a word said. Luiz simply nowhere. Then a stupid foul a little later from Luiz where he could easily have been booked . Total liability.

I don't understand how we were so poor in the second half after a great first half. good teams hold on for 1-0. I think Arteta needs to look at why he didn't change tactics.

I thought Eddie was a sending off and a really stupid challenge. You can point to many others who have not been sent off but they should have been.

Spurs is a must win. No excuses.

_________________
If this policy does not deliver then I would say we have to change it.
AW 150810


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513542  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:55 pm
Posts: 8717
Location: Singapore

Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I am looking forward to a younger, more energetic and eager crop of players next season. Add a few matured and committed players to it. Come on Arsenal!

It’ll largely be the same players with maybe one or two new faces. I’m pretty sure there won’t be wholesale changes with many new players coming in.


And that's what I meant. We have a lot more younger players with promise now. Blood them in faster.

_________________
A new Chapter awaits!


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513543  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

So far this season there has been a reluctance from refs to actually use the pitch-side monitor. Only on 2 occasions has the ref gone to his pitch side monitor for a red card decision. On both occasions the foul was upgraded to a straight red and on both occasions it was an Arsenal player.

Then there is the stat about on only 2 occasions has a player made 6 fouls or more in a game and not been booked, both times was against Arsenal.

I've noted plenty of times a penalty has been give against a team when a defender has pulled a player back who had a clear goalscoring opportunity (he's next action is a shot at a gk with no defenders in the way) and the defender was not sent off - Gomez v Sterling only last week the latest example. Luiz has been done twice for this this season.

It isn't necessarily that each of these decisions are wrong it is that we see time and time again the rules are not applied evenly.

I expect more of this when we play Spurs at the weekend. Fully expecting a dodgy spurs penalty which Kane will score, it happens every time we play them


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513544  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 18621

In real time I thought the Nketiah foul was no more than a yellow. However, having seen the replays it's clear that whilst there was no intent to injure the opponent his studs were high and he catches the guy so it's probably a red.

It was one of those high risk/high reward situations. If Nketiah gets there a split second earlier he nicks the ball past the Leicester defender and he's away and everyone says what great play. He might even have been on the end of a red card challenge himself.

The fact is that he was a fraction late, his studs were high, he catches the defender and could have done him some serious damage.

A bit like an overhead kick in a crowded box......if you catch it perfectly and it flies in the top corner its great technique but if you miss the ball and smash someones face then it's reckless.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513545  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 8158

:toothy9:
socrates wrote:
Disappointing. The red card obviously changed the game but I do think we missed some really good chances in the 1st half then took our foot off the pedal too much in the second half and Mustafi and Bellerin were caught ball watching for the Vardy goal.

I think we saw some positives tonight but also some of our limitations as well. Tierney,and Ceballos and Martinez were excellent but as soon as we went down to 10 men I thought Xhaka's lack of mobility was an issue, he simply can't get round the pitch quickly enough to cope with the extra man and it left us more exposed than perhaps we might have been with a more athletic player in there.

For me Mustafi and Xhaka have been very good since Arteta's arrival but I just don't think they are at the level to take us where we would like to be. If i was Arteta I'd move them both on and buy a better CB and a more mobile DM.

Morning socrates. It seems ironic that while lamenting Xhaka’s lack of mobility to the point that you still want to see him go, a far more likely midfield departure is Guendouzi who, considering the way he gets round the pitch and his energy, is surely our most mobile central midfielder. Some may want to use the word ‘arguably’ instead of surely, though I’m happy with the relevance of ‘surely’ here.

I believe Xhaka is most likely to stay because Arteta, like all his other managers, appears to love him. I don’t think any other conclusion looks feasible. Furthermore, another point that I feel supports my judgment that Guendouzi is the more likely departure is that according to reports he wants out. Also, I believe the clubs I’ve seen who reportedly want him, which in alphabetical order are Barcelona, Inter, Manchester United and PSG, makes it even easier to believe he’ll go.

As Guendouzi seems to be pushing to get away by not toeing Arteta’s line, why is that? I suspect it could be down to the following idea. He must know of someone he’d like to join who wants him. Players have their agents who work at getting players to clubs they’d like to join. That’s one of their tasks; it’s what happens. Guendouzi’s agent will have approached big clubs and/or received expressions of interest from them already. If the only clubs who wanted him were the French, Spanish or Italian versions of West Ham, or even lower Norwich, Guendouzi would I’m certain be working hard to impress Arteta. He would not be so keen on leaving. My guess is PSG are his most likely destination. He’s French, they’re a huge club, massively wealthy, and the interview with him in the Norwich programme left me in little or even no doubt he supported them.

Going back to Xhaka, I think you’re going to be disappointed. I reckon Arteta sees him as a long way from being a player he’d like to move on. Say Guendouzi does leave, is Ceballos the answer? He was very good last night, but to be brutally frank that was probably his best ever game in an Arsenal shirt. He’s been very inconsistent and I see him not being signed permanently or even not having his loan deal extended for next season as more likely than Xhaka going. I even reckon Torreira could be more likely to go than Xhaka, as there’s not been much to suggest he’s settled well in London.

Even if we look at things optimistically and we get Partey as a straight swap for Lacazette, will Guendouzi’s sale pay for a new forward to replace him? Maybe, but maybe not. Then you also mention how you still want Mustafi to go. To be replaced by who, as you don’t appear to rate any of Mari, Luiz and Holding either (I think I’ve seen you moan about them all). Upamecano would probably cost a fortune, and a damn site more than we’d get for Mustafi or Holding.

As our owner, I don’t think Stan will want to fund wholesale changes to the squad. That’s why I believe people should get used to not seeing a big turnaround in players before next season.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513546  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:58 am
Posts: 29578

Rich wrote:
Saw another article about the players who've left Arsenal and won trophies, this one was Oxlade-Chamberlain. Whilst I think he would start in our midfield and he probably has improved as a central midfielder since he joined Liverpool is he really any better overall


No

_________________
"What is best in life?
Conan: "Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women"


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513547  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 18621

Bernard wrote:
:toothy9:
socrates wrote:
Disappointing. The red card obviously changed the game but I do think we missed some really good chances in the 1st half then took our foot off the pedal too much in the second half and Mustafi and Bellerin were caught ball watching for the Vardy goal.

I think we saw some positives tonight but also some of our limitations as well. Tierney,and Ceballos and Martinez were excellent but as soon as we went down to 10 men I thought Xhaka's lack of mobility was an issue, he simply can't get round the pitch quickly enough to cope with the extra man and it left us more exposed than perhaps we might have been with a more athletic player in there.

For me Mustafi and Xhaka have been very good since Arteta's arrival but I just don't think they are at the level to take us where we would like to be. If i was Arteta I'd move them both on and buy a better CB and a more mobile DM.

Morning socrates. It seems ironic that while lamenting Xhaka’s lack of mobility to the point that you still want to see him go, a far more likely midfield departure is Guendouzi who, considering the way he gets round the pitch and his energy, is surely our most mobile central midfielder. Some may want to use the word ‘arguably’ instead of surely, though I’m happy with the relevance of ‘surely’ here.

I believe Xhaka is most likely to stay because Arteta, like all his other managers, appears to love him. I don’t think any other conclusion looks feasible. Furthermore, another point that I feel supports my judgment that Guendouzi is the more likely departure is that according to reports he wants out. Also, I believe the clubs I’ve seen who reportedly want him, which in alphabetical order are Barcelona, Inter, Manchester United and PSG, makes it even easier to believe he’ll go.

As Guendouzi seems to be pushing to get away by not toeing Arteta’s line, why is that? I suspect it could be down to the following idea. He must know of someone he’d like to join who wants him. Players have their agents who work at getting players to clubs they’d like to join. That’s one of their tasks; it’s what happens. Guendouzi’s agent will have approached big clubs and/or received expressions of interest from them already. If the only clubs who wanted him were the French, Spanish or Italian versions of West Ham, or even lower Norwich, Guendouzi would I’m certain be working hard to impress Arteta. He would not be so keen on leaving. My guess is PSG are his most likely destination. He’s French, they’re a huge club, massively wealthy, and the interview with him in the Norwich programme left me in little or even no doubt he supported them.

Going back to Xhaka, I think you’re going to be disappointed. I reckon Arteta sees him as a long way from being a player he’d like to move on. Say Guendouzi does leave, is Ceballos the answer? He was very good last night, but to be brutally frank that was probably his best ever game in an Arsenal shirt. He’s been very inconsistent and I see him not being signed permanently or even not having his loan deal extended for next season as more likely than Xhaka going. I even reckon Torreira could be more likely to go than Xhaka, as there’s not been much to suggest he’s settled well in London.

Even if we look at things optimistically and we get Partey as a straight swap for Lacazette, will Guendouzi’s sale pay for a new forward to replace him? Maybe, but maybe not. Then you also mention how you still want Mustafi to go. To be replaced by who, as you don’t appear to rate any of Mari, Luiz and Holding either (I think I’ve seen you moan about them all). Upamecano would probably cost a fortune, and a damn site more than we’d get for Mustafi or Holding.

As our owner, I don’t think Stan will want to fund wholesale changes to the squad. That’s why I believe people should get used to not seeing a big turnaround in players before next season.


Hi Bernard,

I don't disagree with any of that. I'm not suggesting that Xhaka and Mustafi leaving will happen, but I'd like it to. Or, at the very least, they become squad players with better players in the starting eleven.

People say we are a better team with Xhaka in it but we are still 7th in the table so I'm not sure what that says. Mustafi has been much better under Arteta but I still do not think he's at the level we require if we want to get back to competing at the very top.

I have seen very little of Mari. He looks tall, decent on the ball and good in the air but quite leaden-footed. Another Cygan. I fear he is a mid table CB. Luiz is what he is. Holding I am unsure about. Once again he's not the quickest but he's quite aggressive and decent on the ball.

I know you think that I have a thing about pace in CBs but in the PL unless you have fantastic positional sense and reading of the game then you are going to struggle because you are facing pacy forwards almost every week. That's even more of an issue if you play a high line.

I think to compete at the very top in the PL and Europe the spine of the team has to be top quality. It is no coincidence that Liverpool were an exciting but flakey team until they signed Alisson and VVD.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513548  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

Eric Dier has been given a 4 game ban for the episode when he went in to the crowd to confront a fan. 4 games does seem harsh, I thought he'd got away with it as it's taken long enough to charge him. You obviously cant go in to the crowd and remonstrate with fans, even if they're your own, so he definitely deserves a ban of some sort.
He'll miss the NLD, he's been picked as a CB by Jose in the last few games, I'd rather face Dier at CB than any of Sanchez, Vertonghen, Alderweireld so I think it strengthens them by Jose having to pick 2 from those 3 instead of Dier!


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513549  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 8158

gooner7 wrote:
Bernard wrote:
It’ll largely be the same players with maybe one or two new faces. I’m pretty sure there won’t be wholesale changes with many new players coming in.

And that's what I meant. We have a lot more younger players with promise now. Blood them in faster.

If Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Maitland-Niles and Smith Rowe are all first choice regulars next season I think we could be heading for a mid-table finish. Saka is miles ahead of them all.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513550  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
And that's what I meant. We have a lot more younger players with promise now. Blood them in faster.

If Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Maitland-Niles and Smith Rowe are all first choice regulars next season I think we could be heading for a mid-table finish. Saka is miles ahead of them all.

I don't think any would be first choice but can be used usefully as squad members in a summer where transfer budgets are limited or nil and we need to keep complying with home-grown quotas.
As an aside, and in a 'normal' market how much do you think we'd get for the 5 players mentioned above. Because whilst the point of the academy is to provide top class players for the first team it is much more likely to produce good footballers who can be sold on and those fees used to sign better players. No reason those 5 couldn't raise a combined £100m given age and nationality. That's as long as we don't let their contracts run down


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513551  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:56 pm
Posts: 608

Not sure if this has been commented on but from a coaching standpoint....there is a switching off at short corners on our right back side.
Against Brighton for their equalizer there was two versus one from a short corner and their player had plenty of time to cross. Same again last night 2v1 and a very good stop with his feet by Martinez stopped them opening the scoring. Whenever the opposition has two men out wide for a short corner we should have two defending it.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513552  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:27 pm
Posts: 8158

Rich wrote:
Bernard wrote:
If Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Maitland-Niles and Smith Rowe are all first choice regulars next season I think we could be heading for a mid-table finish. Saka is miles ahead of them all.

I don't think any would be first choice but can be used usefully as squad members in a summer where transfer budgets are limited or nil and we need to keep complying with home-grown quotas.
As an aside, and in a 'normal' market how much do you think we'd get for the 5 players mentioned above. Because whilst the point of the academy is to provide top class players for the first team it is much more likely to produce good footballers who can be sold on and those fees used to sign better players. No reason those 5 couldn't raise a combined £100m given age and nationality. That's as long as we don't let their contracts run down

I would agree Rich that the five I mentioned could all be useful squad back ups. I just don’t see them as first choice regulars for a club that intends winning trophies (if Arsenal still do under Stan). I just don’t see the point in kidding ourselves that they are or even might become so in the future. Perhaps I’m hopelessly underestimating them, though I doubt it. Good enough to all have nice careers in the game, but short of the top level in my view. I should have mentioned Martinelli alongside Saka as another who could make the highest level, but he slipped my mind. If he sorts his attitude out I reckon Guendouzi could be a third, but I’ll be surprised if it’s at Arsenal.

Your idea that Nelson, Willock, Smith Rowe, Nketiah and Maitland-Niles could together bring in £100m seems a reasonable estimate. However, with the squad as it is, how many can be sold? All teams need back up squad fillers and unless they can be replaced by others from the academy, Arsenal might need to keep them. Or at least some of them, even if it’s not all.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513553  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 6946

DHD wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Vardy struck Mustafi as part of his fall, after a clean duel for the ball, so it's a very different challenge.

Basically, for me the difference is this: Vardy only deserves a red card if he deliberately kicked Mustafi. Nketiah deserves a red card whatever his intentions were.


You seem very certain Haz.

We’ve had 50 repeats of Eddie’s challenge but I’ve only seen Vardy’s once in replay. Nonetheless, I think I take a different view.


https://twitter.com/rantsnbants/status/ ... 91361?s=12

Still sure Haz?


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513554  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:21 pm
Posts: 14187
Location: Stockholm

DHD wrote:
DHD wrote:

You seem very certain Haz.

We’ve had 50 repeats of Eddie’s challenge but I’ve only seen Vardy’s once in replay. Nonetheless, I think I take a different view.


https://twitter.com/rantsnbants/status/ ... 91361?s=12

Still sure Haz?

Never meant I was sure Vardy didn't mean to kick Mustafi, just that it's two very different situations. The Vardy one is trickier to judge, so I don't think the argument that the Nketiah red card was harsh because Vardy wasn't sent off holds up completely.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513555  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 6946

Hazuki wrote:
DHD wrote:

Never meant I was sure Vardy didn't mean to kick Mustafi, just that it's two very different situations. The Vardy one is trickier to judge, so I don't think the argument that the Nketiah red card was harsh because Vardy wasn't sent off holds up completely.


The Ref saw both challenges. He gave nothing for Vardy's and a yellow for Nketiah's. VAR than chose to get involved and Nketiah's was eventually elevated to Serious Foul Play - red card and a 3-match ban - because whilst there was no injury, it was a potentially dangerous tackle.

I would suggest there's clear a argument that Vardy's was much more serious foul play. The more I see those few frames, the clearer Vardy's intent becomes and the worse it looks. It was a downright vicious assault. What might have been the outcome if VAR had replayed it 50 times in the slowest of motion from every conceivable angle?

It wasn't a POTENTIALLY dangerous tackle - it WAS dangerous. His challenge resulted in an actual injury that could have been much worse than it was.


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513556  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:45 am
Posts: 22270

Dead right DHD. Having now had the opportunity to look at repeating Twitter version of Vardy’s assault I am totally convinced by what you say.

There could have been no option but a red card if VAR had done it to death.

_________________
I believe in our team, I believe in our quality and I am convinced that I am right. (Arsene Wenger Dec 08)


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513557  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:02 am
Posts: 1729
Location: Liverpool/Caernarfon

DHD wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Never meant I was sure Vardy didn't mean to kick Mustafi, just that it's two very different situations. The Vardy one is trickier to judge, so I don't think the argument that the Nketiah red card was harsh because Vardy wasn't sent off holds up completely.


The Ref saw both challenges. He gave nothing for Vardy's and a yellow for Nketiah's. VAR than chose to get involved and Nketiah's was eventually elevated to Serious Foul Play - red card and a 3-match ban - because whilst there was no injury, it was a potentially dangerous tackle.

I would suggest there's clear a argument that Vardy's was much more serious foul play. The more I see those few frames, the clearer Vardy's intent becomes and the worse it looks. It was a downright vicious assault. What might have been the outcome if VAR had replayed it 50 times in the slowest of motion from every conceivable angle?

It wasn't a POTENTIALLY dangerous tackle - it WAS dangerous. His challenge resulted in an actual injury that could have been much worse than it was.


Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

_________________
Gorau chwarae cyd chwarae


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513558  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:02 am
Posts: 1729
Location: Liverpool/Caernarfon

West Ham Burnley - yellow card incident that looked just as bad as Nketiah’s if not worse.

No VAR review

_________________
Gorau chwarae cyd chwarae


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513559  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 7404

john1 wrote:
DHD wrote:

The Ref saw both challenges. He gave nothing for Vardy's and a yellow for Nketiah's. VAR than chose to get involved and Nketiah's was eventually elevated to Serious Foul Play - red card and a 3-match ban - because whilst there was no injury, it was a potentially dangerous tackle.

I would suggest there's clear a argument that Vardy's was much more serious foul play. The more I see those few frames, the clearer Vardy's intent becomes and the worse it looks. It was a downright vicious assault. What might have been the outcome if VAR had replayed it 50 times in the slowest of motion from every conceivable angle?

It wasn't a POTENTIALLY dangerous tackle - it WAS dangerous. His challenge resulted in an actual injury that could have been much worse than it was.


Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

_________________
"I just kept going pretty lively. Them killers wasn't too healthy company."


 Profile  
 
 
Post #513560  Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:57 pm
Posts: 16468

dec wrote:
john1 wrote:

Too right DHD.

Just proves VAR isn’t the perfect solution to more correct decisions as has been touted by its developers and backers. The system should either be used consistently and replays looked at of every single incident, or not at all.

Last night was a perfect example of how an inconsistent approach by VAR can alter the result of a game, which is exactly what we had when we just relied on refs to call things as they saw them.

Plus ça change.

VAR is for the benefit of TV companies not the game. It provides constant content for Sky and BT. It works well for close offside calls that the linesman has missed. I'm not talking about the hairline nonsense but the regular ones where a linesman had a blocked view or the move was just too fast. The rest is just nonsense.

When VAR was bought in I thought the tag line was for it to correct clear and obvious errors. It obviously has done that many times and everyone is pretty happy with that - a case in point would be Aubameyang's goal at Man U which was at least 4 yards onside being over turn. But as you say, this constant debate over hairline offsides is nonsense. One of the first ones this season was Sterling given offside by I think it was something like 4-5cm. Great that the technology is capable but we're stil relying on a human to stop the tape at the exact moment the ball was played. The foot is in contact with the ball for more than a nano-second so it is impossible to judge. On that Sterling goal they worked out that if you worked out the time delay between each frame of tape against the speed Sterling was running at the time and an allowance for not knowing exactly when the ball has left the assisters foot there was a huge margin for error which could have easily meant Sterling was actually onside by a foot rather than offside by a few cm. And that's just offside.


 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
     [ 516232 posts ] 
Go to page Previous  1 ... 12836, 12837, 12838, 12839, 12840, 12841, 12842 ... 12906  Next

All times are UTC

Gooners Online - Click to see what Everyones Doing

Colour Key:  Visited Profile    Members Profile      Admin

Get Latest Post

Users browsing this forum: Decaf and 5 guests


Search for:

Go to Top

Powered by php BB © 1993 - 2018