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Post #513041  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:46 pm 
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Yes!!!!! Willock.

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Post #513042  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:46 pm 
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2-0 and a red card for them. Needed that


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Post #513043  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:47 pm 
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The outcome not at all deserved

Or maybe it was given that the goals resulted from Southampton nonsense play

Who cares. 3 points will do.

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Post #513044  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:56 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
The outcome not at all deserved

Or maybe it was given that the goals resulted from Southampton nonsense play

Who cares. 3 points will do.


I thought we were worth the win LTG. We weren’t stunning and it wasn’t a comfortable win but we did look a bit more determined. I like Eddie and I like Willock. They have talent, they’re triers and I’m pleased for them both. Saka was tremendous again while Holding and Mustafi looks pretty solid.

Bellerin was poor and I’m afraid, for me, Pépé can jog on; he doesn’t want to be here.


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Post #513045  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:31 pm 
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Ash wrote:
Bernard wrote:
What does ‘doubling down regardless’ mean?

American football reference? American football played at Tottenhams home ground. He's calling you a spurs fan. I wouldn't stand for that if I were you...

No wonder I didn’t understand it then. I named the few US sports teams I’ve heard of a few days ago, and that I couldn’t even tell you what sports they played.


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Post #513046  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:37 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
The outcome not at all deserved

Or maybe it was given that the goals resulted from Southampton nonsense play

Who cares. 3 points will do.


I thought we were awful ltg and a better and more incisive side than Southampton would have beaten us. We got lucky with both the goals and Martinez made a worldy to stop an equaliser. Aubameyang did miss a golden opportunity as well but generally it was two very average sides.

Not much more to say about a very forgetable match.


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Post #513047  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Ash wrote:
American football reference? American football played at Tottenhams home ground. He's calling you a spurs fan. I wouldn't stand for that if I were you...

No wonder I didn’t understand it then. I named the few US sports teams I’ve heard of a few days ago, and that I couldn’t even tell you what sports they played.

:laughing7: sorry Bern just pulling your leg. It just means compounding a perceived mistake with the same attitude.


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Post #513048  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:16 pm 
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Ash wrote:
:laughing7: sorry Bern just pulling your leg. It just means compounding a perceived mistake with the same attitude.

Good grief. Top Gun accusing someone else of ‘compounding a perceived mistake with the same attitude’. I’m going to send that off to the Oxford English Dictionary to use for the definition of ‘irony’ in their next issue.


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Post #513049  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:21 pm 
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I can see why people will say the two goals were lucky as they were both the result of defensive howlers, but Nketiah and Aubamayang may chase those sorts of things down every game all season for the one time they can force the mistake and get the goal.
I used to bemoan that we never got goals from opponents mistakes, rebounds from gk, pressuring the defence, a lot of the time it was because we didn't press or didn't take shots. So I'm happy to get some goals from the dirty side of centre forward play.


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Post #513050  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Ash wrote:
American football reference? American football played at Tottenhams home ground. He's calling you a spurs fan. I wouldn't stand for that if I were you...

No wonder I didn’t understand it then. I named the few US sports teams I’ve heard of a few days ago, and that I couldn’t even tell you what sports they played.

This is "doubling down" meaning.
1: to double the original bid in blackjack in exchange for only one more card.
Or
To double down is take a further risk in a situation or passionately re-commit one's efforts to a cause or course of action.

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Post #513051  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:31 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Hope ManChester City drop points at Chelsea to confirm Liverpool’s title win. I expect everyone has cottoned on to how much I dislike that vile club Liverpool and their revolting up their own arses fans, so let me explain. Winning the title without playing a game to confirm it just isn’t the same, in my view.

I’ve seen Arsenal win six titles. The one where the moment (the game) winning it was most forgettable was the 1991 title. We actually won the league without playing a game. We played Manchester United at home that day, but before it the title win was confirmed by Nottingham Forest beating Liverpool. For me it took something from the moment, even though it had been a great season. It just wasn’t the same as Arsenal winning it by playing a match as with 1971 at Tottenham, 1989 at Anfield, 1998 at home to Everton, 2002 at Old Trafford and 2004 at White Hart Lane again.

I realise no Liverpool fans would be able to attend the match they will do it at, even if City win tonight. But I very much doubt their fans will find City drawing or losing at Chelsea tonight as memorable as they would find watching Liverpool win the league in their next game on telly.

So Chelsea won, confirming Liverpool’s title win without playing a game. They’ll feeler pleased obviously. But I hope it makes the title more flat than it would have been if they’d won it by playing a match themselves. I expect it will.


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Post #513052  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:58 pm 
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Yeah we won a game. Just tell me again what our style of play is ? Hold on in the second half?

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Post #513053  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:00 pm 
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Zed wrote:
Bernard wrote:
No wonder I didn’t understand it then. I named the few US sports teams I’ve heard of a few days ago, and that I couldn’t even tell you what sports they played.

This is "doubling down" meaning.
1: to double the original bid in blackjack in exchange for only one more card.
Or
To double down is take a further risk in a situation or passionately re-commit one's efforts to a cause or course of action.


Or alternatively asking for Arteta to be sacked just because he dropped an average midfielder for 1 game :laughing7:


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Post #513054  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:05 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Or alternatively asking for Arteta to be sacked just because he dropped an average midfielder for 1 game :laughing7:

Guendouzi has shown he is not an average midfielder. Arteta has not yet shown he isn’t an average manager.


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Post #513055  Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:19 pm 
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Worth pointing out that Holding was given man of the match today. By Alan Smith on commentary but still it’s significant to me. He’s a defender first and he’s decent on the ball. That’s the way round it should be and he was a breath of fresh air today in his simplicity and sharpness. He’ll be a great first team/squad player if he can stay fit and develop like he was before the injury.


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Post #513056  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:08 am 
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3 points further from relegation fight. That's all that matters now.

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Post #513057  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:34 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Or alternatively asking for Arteta to be sacked just because he dropped an average midfielder for 1 game :laughing7:

Guendouzi has shown he is not an average midfielder. Arteta has not yet shown he isn’t an average manager.

Guendouzi has been very average this year with a load of personality problems to boot. Still to early to judge Arteta

But claiming Arteta should be sacked for dropping Guendouzi in a game that we won is doubling down of the highest order. Congratulations


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Post #513058  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:12 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Yeah we won a game. Just tell me again what our style of play is ? Hold on in the second half?

Second half looked like Rope A Dope.

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Post #513059  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:16 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Guendouzi has been very average this year with a load of personality problems to boot. Still to early to judge Arteta

But claiming Arteta should be sacked for dropping Guendouzi in a game that we won is doubling down of the highest order. Congratulations

He was excellent earlier in the season. He started this season and last very well. Sadly his form dropped off. But to call a young player average because he shows inconsistency is nothing short of pathetic.

Do you have psychological issues, like anger management? You seem to need to focus dislike on a player? We saw it with Mustafi and Xhaka. Then around the time their form picked up you decide to focus on Guendouzi instead. No player stays at a club for ever, however good or bad they are, so there will come a time when none of them will be Arsenal players. Wonder who you’ll focus your dislike on then? In ten years we might have players in the team who are currently still at primary school. Wonder which one you’ll pick on?

I’m not a psychologist so perhaps it’s simply that your understanding of the game isn’t as high as you probably like to think.


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Post #513060  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:36 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Guendouzi has been very average this year with a load of personality problems to boot. Still to early to judge Arteta

But claiming Arteta should be sacked for dropping Guendouzi in a game that we won is doubling down of the highest order. Congratulations

He was excellent earlier in the season. He started this season and last very well. Sadly his form dropped off. But to call a young player average because he shows inconsistency is nothing short of pathetic.

Do you have psychological issues, like anger management? You seem to need to focus dislike on a player? We saw it with Mustafi and Xhaka. Then around the time their form picked up you decide to focus on Guendouzi instead. No player stays at a club for ever, however good or bad they are, so there will come a time when none of them will be Arsenal players. Wonder who you’ll focus your dislike on then? In ten years we might have players in the team who are currently still at primary school. Wonder which one you’ll pick on?

I’m not a psychologist so perhaps it’s simply that your understanding of the game isn’t as high as you probably like to think.

Psychological issues. You were the one calling for Arteta to be sacked yesterday :laughing7:


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Post #513061  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:46 am 
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We rarely have it easy at Soton. We didn't look great but ugly wins are accepted at anytime (2005 FA cup being the most memorable).

Liverpool has won the Covid 19 title. 30 year wait and its under these circumstances. They won't even be able to do a march of honor in front of the fans. I assume there will be a parade but even that may be canceled.

I was looking at some old stats, matches, etc, and noticed Arsenal's Ronnie Rooke was the scoring champion in the '47-48 title winning season. I don't think I've ever heard of him mentioned on here. Unless he was mentioned by the 'death eaters' :42laughter:

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Post #513062  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:54 am 
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After all the years of Arsenal bashing for having lots of foreign players and not producing english youngsters (not that any of the other top clubs were doing any better) it is a shame that more isn't made of the fact that Arsenal, even in the low were are in, have a good crop of young english players coming through. Are they all ready to be established first 11 players in a champions league team - almost certainly not, but they are young and will get better.

What we need to do now is surround them with leadership and talent.

Unfortunately we may be in a position that some players we would prefer not to sell may need to be sold to raise funds for a better squad. Guendouzi, Holding, Maitland-Niles and Nelson might fall in to this category. Others certainly need to go first but they won't generate much money

Got to get Saka tied down to a new contract, the hype over him if he played for Man U or Liverpool would be immense. He's 2 years younger than Foden and Sancho. He has the potential to be one of our best academy products for some time


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Post #513063  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:03 am 
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According to L'Equipe, Guedouzi has informed Arteta he wouldn't be averse to being sold. I think he will be a very, very good player but I also think he's eminently replaceable. Patrick Vieira or Manu Petit he ain't.

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Post #513064  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:07 am 
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Darren wrote:
According to L'Equipe, Guedouzi has informed Arteta he wouldn't be averse to being sold. I think he will be a very, very good player but I also think he's eminently replaceable. Patrick Vieira or Manu Petit he ain't.

Passes it backwards and points and shouts about stuff as he jogs around the pitch. If we can get a decent fee it would be great business


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Post #513065  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
He was excellent earlier in the season. He started this season and last very well. Sadly his form dropped off. But to call a young player average because he shows inconsistency is nothing short of pathetic.

Do you have psychological issues, like anger management? You seem to need to focus dislike on a player? We saw it with Mustafi and Xhaka. Then around the time their form picked up you decide to focus on Guendouzi instead. No player stays at a club for ever, however good or bad they are, so there will come a time when none of them will be Arsenal players. Wonder who you’ll focus your dislike on then? In ten years we might have players in the team who are currently still at primary school. Wonder which one you’ll pick on?

I’m not a psychologist so perhaps it’s simply that your understanding of the game isn’t as high as you probably like to think.

Psychological issues. You were the one calling for Arteta to be sacked yesterday :laughing7:

If you go back a day or two I was actually saying it’s too early to sack Arteta when others appeared to be heading towards that viewpoint. I haven’t made up my mind about him yet, one way or the other. But I don’t think his start has been brilliant. However, I will be disappointed if Guendouzi is one of the players he gets rid of and that would edge me closer to wanting him out.

Nevertheless, and it’s a major point, I no longer see who is bought and sold, or who the head coach is, as important as I once did. For me the big issue, by a long margin, is the owner. I recall making the point that if before the season started Liverpool’s owners had offered to swap every single player in their squad for every one of Arsenal’s squad and that had happened, I really doubt we’d have won the league, let alone by the margin they have. I accept I can’t prove it, but it’s honestly what I feel.

I know buying and selling players and sacking or appointing managers is what football fans like talking about. In person and on line. But for me it’s not as relevant as Kroenke who in my view has and is overseeing a lack of ambition to win things that has compromised our chances, whoever the players or manager is, for success on the pitch. If Stan stays, then for example Guendouzi and Aubameyang leaving with Partey and Upamecano joining just seems, to me anyway, a bit immaterial.

Arsenal is still the third most successful team in England on a historical basis and has a huge worldwide fan base. If Kroenke stays I wouldn’t bet against Chelsea overtaking us for league wins in any Arsenal fan’s lifetime who hasn’t yet had his or her telegram from the Queen (slightly tongue in cheek but who cares). As recent success is even more relevant to fan base size, I’ve got a feeling I once read Chelsea sell more shirts than Arsenal. If that’s right, it is debatable if Arsenal still has England’s third biggest worldwide fan base as well?

Under Kroenke I’m finding it hard to see a successful future for Arsenal. It’s allegedly what Stan does to clubs. I’ve said I know next to nothing about US sports but I have read his long-standing teams over there are all pretty mediocre. I think Zed also said that recently.


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Post #513066  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:44 am 
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Darren wrote:
According to L'Equipe, Guedouzi has informed Arteta he wouldn't be averse to being sold. I think he will be a very, very good player but I also think he's eminently replaceable. Patrick Vieira or Manu Petit he ain't.

Vieira and Petit is the best Arsenal midfield I’ve ever seen. So I don’t see him as potentially as good as them. But I will be very disappointed as I don’t think he’s as easy to replace for the better as you seem to. But I don’t blame him if he isn’t averse to leaving. If I was a player I’d be only too keen to get out of the cesspit Arsenal is becoming.


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Post #513067  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:36 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Darren wrote:
According to L'Equipe, Guedouzi has informed Arteta he wouldn't be averse to being sold. I think he will be a very, very good player but I also think he's eminently replaceable. Patrick Vieira or Manu Petit he ain't.

Passes it backwards and points and shouts about stuff as he jogs around the pitch. If we can get a decent fee it would be great business


Hi TG,

It's only great business if:

a. you get a hefty fee

b. you replace him with someone as good if not better.

Knowing our lot they'll get a piss poor fee and replace him with a few journeyman clients of the agents who now seem to be running the club.


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Post #513068  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:42 am 
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If you can get 40 million for Guendouzi and Lacazette each i would jump at it. They are both non contributors and that would fund a complete rebuild Of our midfield.

I like Torreira but if we aren’t going to play him then sell him too.

I have a feeling the club will bite the bullet accept defeat and loan out Özil to a Turkish club this summer whilst still paying a hefty chunk of his wages.

I agree with Bernard the club is a cesspit of incompetence and don’t hold much hope. However if we can at least give Arteta a refresh of motivated players so he can try and rebuild otherwise he’s been finished since the start.


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Post #513069  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:45 am 
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My concern about Guendouzi isn’t that he’s not as good as some here think. It's just different opinions.

The bigger worry for me is that he isn’t nearly as good as he thinks he is.


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Post #513070  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:54 am 
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Bernard wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Psychological issues. You were the one calling for Arteta to be sacked yesterday :laughing7:

If you go back a day or two I was actually saying it’s too early to sack Arteta when others appeared to be heading towards that viewpoint. I haven’t made up my mind about him yet, one way or the other.


I really can’t see how anyone can judge him too much. I admit I’m shaking my head a little bit as I don’t really get what he’s trying to do with our team. There seems no fixed formation, team and defence changes most games. The Aubameyang wide thing just seems crazy to me.

All that said he must go into work every day and watch players in training thinking “you shouldn’t be at this football club” . There’s less talent in this squad than any arsenal squad in my lifetime. Changing the manager again won’t alter that.


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Post #513071  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:57 am 
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DHD wrote:
My concern about Guendouzi isn’t that he’s not as good as some here think. It's just different opinions.

The bigger worry for me is that he isn’t nearly as good as he thinks he is.

You can apply that second line to a number of players in that squad DHD


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Post #513072  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:20 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Changing the manager again won’t alter that.

I honestly think Arteta is the very least of our problems. We have some bang average players and a dreadful structure above Arteta. As you say, if we can flog Guendouzi and Laczette and rebuild our midfield, that would be a huge improvment. Read earlier that Liverpool have built their side with players from Soton, Charlton, Hull etc. Just decent aquisitions rather than names.

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Post #513073  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Guendouzi has, at times, shown a very high potential but has undoubtedly lost form and is playing in an average side. If he wants to go then there is little point in holding on to an unhappy player. I imagine he'll be a vital part of the French national side in the next decade though.

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Post #513074  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:48 pm 
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Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Changing the manager again won’t alter that.

I honestly think Arteta is the very least of our problems. We have some bang average players and a dreadful structure above Arteta. As you say, if we can flog Guendouzi and Laczette and rebuild our midfield, that would be a huge improvment. Read earlier that Liverpool have built their side with players from Soton, Charlton, Hull etc. Just decent aquisitions rather than names.


One area where I think Arteta has a major problem is with the recruitment.

It’s all very well modelling yourselves on the European game where chief scouts and directors handle transfers and managers aren’t involved. However fast forward a bit and you have sacked your head scout who seemed to be making good decisions, all your players are from the agents who are mates of the directors

Arteta needs to be given the power to veto transfers otherwise we’ll be screwed.

Also make my words I bet we end up getting Willian from Chelsea. A player who looks great one week invisible the next. We have become the retirement home Tottenham used to when players like poyet and gallas would go for r one last contract


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Post #513075  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:22 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Also make my words I bet we end up getting Willian from Chelsea. A player who looks great one week invisible the next. We have become the retirement home Tottenham used to when players like poyet and gallas would go for r one last contract

I agree, we’re becoming a retirement home for ex-Chelsea players. Wouldn’t surprise me if one of their sales pitch they used on Werner to sign him was words to the effect of:

“If you stay until you’re in your thirties, don’t worry about us wanting to get rid of you then. For former players we have found a really comfortable Darby and Joan Club just a few miles away called Arsenal FC. You can go there to sit out your playing days on good money without having to do anything.”


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Post #513076  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:54 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:

One area where I think Arteta has a major problem is with the recruitment.

It’s all very well modelling yourselves on the European game where chief scouts and directors handle transfers and managers aren’t involved. However fast forward a bit and you have sacked your head scout who seemed to be making good decisions, all your players are from the agents who are mates of the directors

Arteta needs to be given the power to veto transfers otherwise we’ll be screwed.


Arteta has to make it work under the present structure/system. I would think he has some say on player recruitment as well. Sanllehi's way of recruiting players hasn't quite work this season but let's see how things pan out in the next transfer window.


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Post #513077  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:28 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
If you go back a day or two I was actually saying it’s too early to sack Arteta when others appeared to be heading towards that viewpoint. I haven’t made up my mind about him yet, one way or the other.

Fine Bernard. But that doesn’t really stack up with your offensive and unwarranted rant against him last night, and I quote....


Hope the b****** Arteta gets sacked before too long.

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Post #513078  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:36 pm 
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Darren wrote:
According to L'Equipe, Guedouzi has informed Arteta he wouldn't be averse to being sold. I think he will be a very, very good player but I also think he's eminently replaceable. Patrick Vieira or Manu Petit he ain't.

Not even Cazorla's level.


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Post #513079  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:09 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
If you can get 40 million for Guendouzi and Lacazette each i would jump at it. They are both non contributors and that would fund a complete rebuild Of our midfield.

I like Torreira but if we aren’t going to play him then sell him too.

I have a feeling the club will bite the bullet accept defeat and loan out Özil to a Turkish club this summer whilst still paying a hefty chunk of his wages.

I agree with Bernard the club is a cesspit of incompetence and don’t hold much hope. However if we can at least give Arteta a refresh of motivated players so he can try and rebuild otherwise he’s been finished since the start.

On the basis that you could potentially buy Partey and Pellegrini with their buy out clauses for a combined £70m I would sell both Guendouzi and Lacazette for £40m each.

Torreira seems to want to head back to Italy, we should get at least our money back for him. which should be put towards a creative No.8 style player (Kocku the turk was the one rumoured to be high on our wishlist for £20-25m
Xhaka, Partey, Pellegrini, Saka, Kocku, Willock starts to look like a more serious midfield


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Post #513080  Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:10 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Bernard wrote:
If you go back a day or two I was actually saying it’s too early to sack Arteta when others appeared to be heading towards that viewpoint. I haven’t made up my mind about him yet, one way or the other.

Fine Bernard. But that doesn’t really stack up with your offensive and unwarranted rant against him last night, and I quote....

Hope the b****** Arteta gets sacked before too long.

I was in a bad mood about him blaming Guendouzi for the Brighton defeat, assuming he did. Was a long way from being our worst player and at least he showed what little fight or anger we had. Thinking rationally about it, of course Arteta should have more time though. But if he does sell the underrated (by some) Guendouzi, I’ll hope the b****** does gets sacked.

Keown wasn’t speaking highly of Arteta today. Not for that, but for giving Luiz a new contract. Said words to the effect that the tide could be turning against Arteta.


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