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Post #508561  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:58 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.

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Post #508562  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:44 am 
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Ash wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


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Post #508563  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:53 am 
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I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.

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Post #508564  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:55 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.



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Post #508565  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:56 am 
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https://tbrfootball.com/krystian-bielik ... is-summer/
Krystian Bielik reportedly desperate to be sold by Arsenal this summer

This sub headline and reason seems pure fiction. If its true, its shocking and until I hear otherwise, I have to assume its written for clicks.

The Polish Under-21 international has apparently been told he’ll be sold because he was signed by Arsene Wenger.

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Post #508566  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:58 am 
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Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit

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Post #508567  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:01 am 
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I have very bad memories of Bower. I wouldn't let him have it based on that alone.

https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/char ... -of-reach/

Charlton boss admits that Arsenal striker – linked with Valley loan – is out of reach

Charlton boss Lee Bowyer has ruled out a loan move for Eddie Nketiah.

The Arsenal striker had been on their wanted list but Bristol City were understood to be ready to pay a loan fee and the full wages of the Lewisham-born 20-year-old.

Nketiah scored a late winner for the Gunners as they beat Bayern Munich in their Champions Cup opener in Los Angeles this week.

“It is looking difficult,” said Bowyer.

“He is in the first-team and doing well in the first-team. I can’t see them letting him out on loan.”

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Post #508568  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:13 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Mmmm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... mises.html

'The new leadership had their own agenda': Former Arsenal transfer chief Mislintat accuses club of breaking promises as he opens up on shock exit


Absolutely why you need a driven owner and a solid board of directors. Execs and directors like Mislintat and Sanelhi are ships that pass in the night, always fall out with the club they work for, Always feel underpaid.

We need a proper owner and my god we need someone like Dein back

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Post #508569  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:16 am 
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Bored wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.

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Post #508570  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:41 am 
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socrates wrote:
Ash wrote:

What do you make of Bielik seemingly going? Player of the season on loan and impressing with Poland.


Hi Ash,

I'm disappointed that he seemingly is not going to be given a chance in pre-season to show his worth but it appears he is not Emery's cup of tea. No idea why. It is not like we are blessed with umpteen quality CBs and DMs.

If we do sell I hope we at least get market value for a 21 year old with his ability and experience and not practically give him away as we have other youngsters.


That pretty much sums up how I feel. I can’t believe there isn’t a squad place for him given he’s excelled where he’s been on loan and at u21 and we’re lacking fit and mobile humans at CB.

I fear we won’t get very much for him either, he wants out, we don’t want him and he doesn’t have so much as a minute for the first team.

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Post #508571  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:44 am 
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socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa

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Post #508572  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:47 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I think the operative word is should. We should have more quality, but we don’t. I agree, fit he starts alongside Sokratis.

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Post #508573  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:30 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bored wrote:

He should really be looked upon as a promising back up centre half.


He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I also thought he was doing well. The balls to fire up in a cup final and call Costa a "*%^@*** nutter" at the age of 22. While some other candies like Özil flit around and do *%^@ all. I know who Id prefer in my team at work, let alone on a football pitch.


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Post #508574  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:33 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:
There is an awful lot being made of Rob Holding's comeback but, let's be realistic, he is coming back from a serious injury and will take time to recover properly and this is not the return of a peak Sol Campbell.

From what I saw of him he is a promising and steady player with a decent all round game but with no real outstanding quality that suggests he could become a worldclass CB. I hope I'm wrong.


See the thing about centre halves are the best attribute is inside their head.

If you think back to Tony Adams what would you say his best qualities are ? I’d probably suggest he was strong but also his judgement was his best attribute. Steve Bould absolutely likewise.

Holding seems a bit like that, he is strong but seems to have a good head. Great performance in the cup final when he was up againest Costa


I didn't see this message before replying but yes.


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Post #508575  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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So, Martinelli in the bag for £6m.
Tierney £25m
Saliba £25m but back on loan to St Ettiene
Everton £35m or Zaha £??m
Cellabos on loan for a £2-3m loan fee

There is a definite need for a centre back, and really another RB because Bellerin won't be back until late Autumn and can't be expected to come straight back in and perform after that injury and no pre-season. You're looking at needing someone to play right back for the best part of half a season at least. I know we got burnt with Lichstiener but I'd shell out for Dani Alves on a 1 year deal.

Also, drastic need to sell some players. We should be shifting Elneny, Jenkinson, Chambers and it is pointless having 3 x left-backs in the squad if we sign Tierney


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Post #508576  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Ash wrote:

I think, whilst that is true, Zaha hits the ground running. He’s premiership tried and tested and to a degree is battle hardened scrapping for a mid table team week in and week out. That’s worth over paying for in my opinion and especially for us and especially now - well last season would have been fine too. Whether we can get it over the line is another matter and it won’t happen. If Palace sell him now and then have to scramble to get a replacement in - they could go down they just won’t do it. Maybe two weeks ago if we had the money but not now, and I think it’s a shame.

True on Zaha. But my point was based on a hypothetical choice between having zaha and spending nothing on defence, or having to entrust a youth team player in defence vs not having zaha, letting Nelson and saka play games on the wing but spending £40m on the defence.
And with our tiny budget it could easily be that choice
If we concede as many as we did last year we won’t get top 4.


Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.


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Post #508577  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:48 pm 
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P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.


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Post #508578  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 pm 
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If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?


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Post #508579  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
Hi Rich, always fix the biggest weakness. In our case defence. Although if we stopped playing the full-blown but half assed wing back thing then we wouldnt get caught out so much.

I think Zaha at 40m is a waste if money and wouldn't be remotely excited even if he did join.

Emery will be done by Christmas if he doesnt sort some *%^@ out soon.

I’m definitely keen to ditch the back 3. I think we lose too much control of midfield and subsequently puts us on the back foot more. We were too often only 2 CM against 3 last year.


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Post #508580  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar

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Post #508581  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:29 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar

It won't be £70m for Zaha either. Nobody would pay that for him.

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Post #508582  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.

We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.

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Post #508583  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:50 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
If you have me the choice of £70m on 26 year old zaha or £35m on 23 year old Everton Soares I’d take the later as long as the remaining £35m was spent on a CB. Surely that has to be the better deal for our squad?

It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar



There has been considerable speculation regarding a deal for this fella but I think one of the difficulties, and perhaps it may well be why no one has pulled the trigger on him yet, is that there are believed to be third party ownership issues to overcome for any potential buyer. The clubs own a part of him and so do a few other investors. There was a time when we avoided these kinds of deals so it may not be something we would look to get involved in unless a straightforward solution could be found.


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Post #508584  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:28 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It won’t be 35 million for soares though.

Apparently he’s a real talent for Brazil and being touted as the next Neymar



There has been considerable speculation regarding a deal for this fella but I think one of the difficulties, and perhaps it may well be why no one has pulled the trigger on him yet, is that there are believed to be third party ownership issues to overcome for any potential buyer. The clubs own a part of him and so do a few other investors. There was a time when we avoided these kinds of deals so it may not be something we would look to get involved in unless a straightforward solution could be found.

The other factor is that he has a really stupid name.

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Post #508585  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:32 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I'd love to know the inside story on Bielik myself. Doesn't make sense from the outside looking in and we have seen players that there was a consensus was good (Gnabry) and allowed to leave.


Gnabry forced his way out after turning down a new contract after having provisionally agreed it at a year left. He had been tapped up by Bayern and was then 'parked' at Bremen for a year, with some more than circumstantial evidence that Bayern promised Bremen a tidy profit a year in advance. Arsene wanted to keep him and promote him the first team, but that injury and then Pulis being a cretin made him prevaricate about staying, and then bayern came in.

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Post #508586  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:36 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

He’s the 2nd best centre back at the club. It may not be the best indication of our talent but he’s not a back up.


I also thought he was doing well. The balls to fire up in a cup final and call Costa a "*%^@*** nutter" at the age of 22. While some other candies like Özil flit around and do *%^@ all. I know who Id prefer in my team at work, let alone on a football pitch.


Jack Wilshere has spoken of him as a future Arsenal captain. Emery is talking as though he may be one of the five captains. Our defensive record with him in the team last year was excellent. He lacks any exceptional attribute, but he is pretty good as most things, and in his role, if he cant be top drawer, having no glaring flaws to be targeted is the next best thing. Mustafi is quicker, more experienced, has a broader range of technical ability than Holding. But he makes more bad errors and too often abdicates responsibility to his partners.

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Post #508587  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:39 pm 
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dec wrote:
grantyboy wrote:
P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.

We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.


Also, neither are totally without worth. To terminate their contracts you need to pay them everything you would to keep them. So you may as well just keep them. Mustafi may be accident prone, but is still a better option than Zech Medley. Özil may lack aggression and defensive competence and a consistent goal threat, but he's still better than Robbie Burton. And, also, Özil is perfectly capable of having a better year without fitness issues and being a net positive.

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Post #508588  Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
dec wrote:
We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.


Also, neither are totally without worth. To terminate their contracts you need to pay them everything you would to keep them. So you may as well just keep them. Mustafi may be accident prone, but is still a better option than Zech Medley. Özil may lack aggression and defensive competence and a consistent goal threat, but he's still better than Robbie Burton. And, also, Özil is perfectly capable of having a better year without fitness issues and being a net positive.

All I have seen of Zech Medley are his brief appearances in the first team last season, when I thought he looked an outstanding prospect. I presume you have seen more of him than that. What are your views on his longer-term potential?


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Post #508589  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:34 am 
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grantyboy wrote:

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.


That flaky pr**ck is going nowhere ... that idiot albino look will make him even more visible when he is underperforming

Anyway I've made a mini statement ..... put all my Arsenal yearbooks 1973 / 74 thru to 86 / 87 minus 82 / 83 .
Four cup final programmes v Ipswich , Man U , West Ham and Hull plus 6 other league programmes from the early 80s up for sale .
on a local site $100 ..... feels good .

1973 I loved anybody who pulled on an Arsenal shirt ........ now I'm hard pressed to find someone I like .


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Post #508590  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:54 am 
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kiwipete wrote:

That flaky pr**ck is going nowhere ... that idiot albino look will make him even more visible when he is underperforming

Anyway I've made a mini statement ..... put all my Arsenal yearbooks 1973 / 74 thru to 86 / 87 minus 82 / 83 .
Four cup final programmes v Ipswich , Man U , West Ham and Hull plus 6 other league programmes from the early 80s up for sale .
on a local site $100 ..... feels good .

1973 I loved anybody who pulled on an Arsenal shirt ........ now I'm hard pressed to find someone I like .


Support the club not the personalities of the players.

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Post #508591  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:04 am 
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I never thought I'd see the day where America seems eerily similar to the rise of fascism in 1930s Germany. I think I know, or rather I know I know why millions of Americans are totally committed to him, no matter how unethical, immoral or even illegal his actions. I won't get into it but it should be self evident to the casual observer. If not, then I worry about you too.

Trump will be re-elected. There are only two events I can see where it won't happen. First, the economy has 2008 like collapse again or if Sanders gets the nomination and even then its not a given. He has always polled very well against Trump. He won't get the hard core bigots and fascists. He won't get the Christian fundamentalists either but there are enough of the others that he can get. Those who voted for Trump purely for economic reasons and held their nose to the insanity.

The one take away from all this is that the promise that America had with the election of Obama, that is gone. And will be gone for the foreseeable future. We are way too foregone down that rabbit hole that is likened to the last stages of the Roman empire, Spanish empire and a few other nations/empires.

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Post #508592  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:20 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I never thought I'd see the day where America seems eerily similar to the rise of fascism in 1930s Germany. I think I know, or rather I know I know why millions of Americans are totally committed to him, no matter how unethical, immoral or even illegal his actions. I won't get into it but it should be self evident to the casual observer. If not, then I worry about you too.

Trump will be re-elected. There are only two events I can see where it won't happen. First, the economy has 2008 like collapse again or if Sanders gets the nomination and even then its not a given. He has always polled very well against Trump. He won't get the hard core bigots and fascists. He won't get the Christian fundamentalists either but there are enough of the others that he can get. Those who voted for Trump purely for economic reasons and held their nose to the insanity.

The one take away from all this is that the promise that America had with the election of Obama, that is gone. And will be gone for the foreseeable future. We are way too foregone down that rabbit hole that is likened to the last stages of the Roman empire, Spanish empire and a few other nations/empires.


Obama lost 250,000 manufacturing jobs in 8 years Trump has gained 400,000 in 4. Lowest unemployment ever and the wages of the bottom 20% rising faster than any time since records began. That's why he will get re-elected. Obama was long on soaring rhetoric, short on results.

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Post #508593  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
I never thought I'd see the day where America seems eerily similar to the rise of fascism in 1930s Germany. I think I know, or rather I know I know why millions of Americans are totally committed to him, no matter how unethical, immoral or even illegal his actions. I won't get into it but it should be self evident to the casual observer. If not, then I worry about you too.

Trump will be re-elected. There are only two events I can see where it won't happen. First, the economy has 2008 like collapse again or if Sanders gets the nomination and even then its not a given. He has always polled very well against Trump. He won't get the hard core bigots and fascists. He won't get the Christian fundamentalists either but there are enough of the others that he can get. Those who voted for Trump purely for economic reasons and held their nose to the insanity.

The one take away from all this is that the promise that America had with the election of Obama, that is gone. And will be gone for the foreseeable future. We are way too foregone down that rabbit hole that is likened to the last stages of the Roman empire, Spanish empire and a few other nations/empires.


Obama lost 250,000 manufacturing jobs in 8 years Trump has gained 400,000 in 4. Lowest unemployment ever and the wages of the bottom 20% rising faster than any time since records began. That's why he will get re-elected. Obama was long on soaring rhetoric, short on results.


Obama inherited the 2008 financial crisis fall out, not sure it’s fair comparison.

Let’s just say it evens itself out given the amount of racist rhetoric pumped out by Trump on a daily basis

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Post #508594  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
I never thought I'd see the day where America seems eerily similar to the rise of fascism in 1930s Germany. I think I know, or rather I know I know why millions of Americans are totally committed to him, no matter how unethical, immoral or even illegal his actions. I won't get into it but it should be self evident to the casual observer. If not, then I worry about you too.

Trump will be re-elected. There are only two events I can see where it won't happen. First, the economy has 2008 like collapse again or if Sanders gets the nomination and even then its not a given. He has always polled very well against Trump. He won't get the hard core bigots and fascists. He won't get the Christian fundamentalists either but there are enough of the others that he can get. Those who voted for Trump purely for economic reasons and held their nose to the insanity.

The one take away from all this is that the promise that America had with the election of Obama, that is gone. And will be gone for the foreseeable future. We are way too foregone down that rabbit hole that is likened to the last stages of the Roman empire, Spanish empire and a few other nations/empires.


Obama lost 250,000 manufacturing jobs in 8 years Trump has gained 400,000 in 4. Lowest unemployment ever and the wages of the bottom 20% rising faster than any time since records began. That's why he will get re-elected. Obama was long on soaring rhetoric, short on results.


All to do with QE where the government injected massive amounts of printed money into the economy, the lowest interest rates ever and a soaring equities market as a result. None of this had anything at all to do with Trump. Wages growth is also an side result. At some point this global Ponzi scheme will start to unravel and someone like Trump will only make it worse than his fat ego.

But he'll likely be re-elected because America is filled with dim witted, racist, facist *%^@.


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Post #508595  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

That flaky pr**ck is going nowhere ... that idiot albino look will make him even more visible when he is underperforming

Anyway I've made a mini statement ..... put all my Arsenal yearbooks 1973 / 74 thru to 86 / 87 minus 82 / 83 .
Four cup final programmes v Ipswich , Man U , West Ham and Hull plus 6 other league programmes from the early 80s up for sale .
on a local site $100 ..... feels good .

1973 I loved anybody who pulled on an Arsenal shirt ........ now I'm hard pressed to find someone I like .


Support the club not the personalities of the players.



Yes, gazing fondly at the emblem is so much better than feeling like the players on the pitch give a *%^@.


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Post #508596  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:14 pm 
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dec wrote:
grantyboy wrote:
P.s. when do we hear that Özil and Mustafi have been either sold or contracts terminated. The short term financial payouts will live long in the memory of any other a****** players that want to jerk the club around.

If Özil still "works" for Arsenal at the start of the season then we are as weak as frequently reported.

We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.


Are you sure? I would expect that it could be, even if it needed to be paid out.


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Post #508597  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:22 pm 
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https://www.scmp.com/sport/football/art ... over-local
Are The Beatles responsible for Liverpool’s present dominance over local rivals Everton?

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Post #508598  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:56 pm 
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So off to Lord Howe Island for a week. Internet connection from one place only & mobiles do not work. By the time I am back we will no doubt have 3-4 new players. I mean we wouldn’t leave things to the end that would be really silly. I only expect to see a couple of minor departures.

Looking good for the new season. Caring owners can make a difference.

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Post #508599  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:13 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
dec wrote:
We can't just terminate a contract. Both will be in the squad at the start of the season.


Are you sure? I would expect that it could be, even if it needed to be paid out.

Well, we could pay off the remainder of the contract in full, but why would we do that?

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Post #508600  Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Nketiah, Nelson and Saka upfront. Our future?


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