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Post #508561  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:48 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:
Today in 1970 with Jon Sammels nearly scoring against Chelsea.

Wow, what a photo.
By the way, did anyone mention that your Paul Davis Shoot! interview wasn't from 1998, but - more likely - from 1988? Call yourself a historian, TAFKAEiN? I don't know how you manage to keep drawing a wage from the forum.


Fair point - never claimed to be a accurate typist...

But, an error is an error so I'll hand back my wages for this week.


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Post #508562  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:50 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
No I am with Kiwi on this. Part of the reason we stayed up was Mancini. I believe we would have gone down without him but we will never know.

Good God I don’t believe it. I assumed kiwi was on a wind up, but now you? Mancini was utter shite. Way worse than Mustafi. That’s how bad he was. To give him the credit for keeping us up is laughable. It was mainly Ball, Kidd, Rimmer and Brady. Mancini’s main contribution was to nearly send us down whether or not he cracked a few jokes in the dressing room.

By the way, if Mee said what kiwi said he did about Mancini, it was probably to hide his own incompetence in signing him and releasing McLintock.


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Post #508563  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:53 am 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
But, an error is an error so I'll hand back my wages for this week.

Well, when you earn more a week than Özil you can afford it.


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Post #508564  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
No I am with Kiwi on this. Part of the reason we stayed up was Mancini. I believe we would have gone down without him but we will never know.

Good God I don’t believe it. I assumed kiwi was on a wind up, but now you? Mancini was utter shite. Way worse than Mustafi. That’s how bad he was. To give him the credit for keeping us up is laughable. It was mainly Ball, Kidd, Rimmer and Brady. Mancini’s main contribution was to nearly send us down whether or not he cracked a few jokes in the dressing room.

By the way, if Mee said what kiwi said he did about Mancini, it was probably to hide his own incompetence in signing him and releasing McLintock.


Mancini didn't replace McLintock, Blockley did.

Charlie George said he was an arse to Mee and didn't like him because he was officious. He's clear that he was at least as responsible as Mee for their falling out.

Alan Ball (as have other players) said Mancini's attitude was a major reason we stayed up.

Yes he certainly wasn't much of a player but I think you're completely ignoring how important what happens off the pitch is to what happens on it.


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Post #508565  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:01 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:
But, an error is an error so I'll hand back my wages for this week.

Well, when you earn more a week than Özil you can afford it.


Yes, *when* I do I'll be able to afford it.

Can't see it happening this month though.


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Post #508566  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:41 pm 
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This is a short but decent piece on Charlie:

https://gameofthepeople.com/2014/04/04/the-myth-and-legend-of-charlie-george/

There isn't much in the article about his falling out with Bertie Mee, which was pretty terminal apparently. Not much either about his spat with Don Revie which ended with Charlie getting changed and leaving the ground at half-time. There were frank exchanges of views in both cases.

The other thing about Charlie was that he'd appeared quite regularly in the Islington Gazette for some years before he actually broke into the team. In those days, the local paper had several pages on sport, mostly football, mostly Arsenal but plenty on school football where Charlie was a god. While he didn't play that long for The Arse, he is and always will be a bona fide legend for anyone who was around at the time.


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Post #508567  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
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For me, the greatest loss is and always will be Charlie George - almost broke my heart.

It's oft-quoted these days but he really was one of our own.

Charlie George was a bad one but the loss that I felt the worse over was Brady.

I was only a kid but I cried when Charlie George left. Brady was my idol but we knew he was going.
In those days we knew little about players falling out with management. So Charlie leaving was a shock.

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Post #508568  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:57 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Mancini didn't replace McLintock, Blockley did.

Charlie George said he was an arse to Mee and didn't like him because he was officious. He's clear that he was at least as responsible as Mee for their falling out.

Alan Ball (as have other players) said Mancini's attitude was a major reason we stayed up.

Yes he certainly wasn't much of a player but I think you're completely ignoring how important what happens off the pitch is to what happens on it.

Blockley joined in October 1972, so before McLintock left in July 1973. Mancini joined in October 1974, after McLintock left. If ‘replacements join after the player replaced, surely Mancini replaced McLintock? Having said that, whichever way you see it, McLintock was replaced by one or other of two of the worst central defenders I’ve ever seen at the club. I think Mee had lost it by then.

Last year I saw Charlie George give a Q&A at Potters Bar. He firmly put his departure down to Mee, who he clearly considered an old buffoon even if he didn’t use those words (I don’t recall the exact words he did use but whatever they were, they were not complimentary).

If Mancini had a good point, I’ve said it was his personality. It certainly wasn’t his performances as a player. I wish he’d been a stand up (or sit down) comic. He could have worn suits, had a hair transplant, developed an Irish accent and chopped one of his fingers off. I can imagine his TV show now. Terry Mancini at Large. At least that would have saved us from seeing him play for Arsenal.


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Post #508569  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:00 pm 
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DHD wrote:
This is a short but decent piece on Charlie:

https://gameofthepeople.com/2014/04/04/the-myth-and-legend-of-charlie-george/

There isn't much in the article about his falling out with Bertie Mee, which was pretty terminal apparently. Not much either about his spat with Don Revie which ended with Charlie getting changed and leaving the ground at half-time. There were frank exchanges of views in both cases.

The other thing about Charlie was that he'd appeared quite regularly in the Islington Gazette for some years before he actually broke into the team. In those days, the local paper had several pages on sport, mostly football, mostly Arsenal but plenty on school football where Charlie was a god. While he didn't play that long for The Arse, he is and always will be a bona fide legend for anyone who was around at the time.


Can't seem to find it right now but there was a newspaper clipping he'd maybe rather didn't make it to press. If memory serves the first team were playing away (FA CUP possibly) and a photo was published of a group of fans mugging for the camera outside the ground. Charlie was in the middle of them, proudly supporting his team. The only problem was he was supposed to have been playing in a youth game that day and got a right bollocking for it.

I was too young to really understand the magnitude when he left. Brady leaving hurt but we had a year to prepare and, frankly, I don't think anyone blamed him for going to Italy. The one that really got me was when Judas left as that was the first time I felt a player had dumped on the club. I hated him for that so much that in 2004 when a mate (George for those who knew him) was driving for UEFA and ended up having a kick-a-round in the JVC with Judas and a few others we ended up having a little row because George hadn't taken the chance to two-foot him. Not proud to say it but I would have.


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Post #508570  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Who is Judas, Exiled


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Post #508571  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:05 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Blockley joined in October 1972, so before McLintock left in July 1973. Mancini joined in October 1974, after McLintock left. If ‘replacements join after the player replaced, surely Mancini replaced McLintock? Having said that, whichever way you see it, McLintock was replaced by one or other of two of the worst central defenders I’ve ever seen at the club. I think Mee had lost it by then.


I'd agree they were both poor but McLintock was sold because Blockley had taken his place in the team. He was the replacement for McLintock. Ironically I'd say Mancini was probably bought as a replacement for Blockley.


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Post #508572  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:07 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Who is Judas, Exiled


Stapleton.


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Post #508573  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:48 pm 
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Charlie George. The King of Highbury, Holloway and Rowstock Gardens. Blimey Exiled back from Exile..


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Post #508574  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:50 pm 
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https://www.football365.com/news/20-pla ... nter-milan
Anyone think any of these free agents in 6 months are worth signing?


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Post #508575  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
Charlie George. The King of Highbury, Holloway and Rowstock Gardens. Blimey Exiled back from Exile..

I played for Islington under 12's at Tufnell Park. After the game we watched the Under 15's play...they won 5:0 and Charlie scored them all.
Great striker of the ball and good with that little flick with his nut....usually on an opponents head....

Those crucial goals in the run in to our League Championship are noteworthy...Stoke and Newcastle at Highbury spring to mind...the screamer past Ray Clemence in the Cup Final and a particular favourite for me was two goals away at Maine Road in the FA Cup on a really icy pitch....I bunked off school to go up there


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Post #508576  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:01 pm 
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I like Ceballos actually and think he'd do well in Arteta's system. Too bad about the injury issue.
http://dailycannon.com/2020/01/dani-ceb ... an-status/

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Post #508577  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:05 pm 
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mcquilkie wrote:
And don't get me started on Rog.

Image


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Post #508578  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:27 pm 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
Charlie George. The King of Highbury, Holloway and Rowstock Gardens. Blimey Exiled back from Exile..


Wotcha Steve. Been banged up?


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Post #508579  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:24 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Who is Judas, Exiled


Stapleton.

Comes across as a bit of an odd character. He was a pundit on Irish TV for a good few years. Not sure there is a whole lot going on upstairs but he was relentlessly negative.

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Post #508580  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Expecting this for the weekend
Leno, Amn, Saka, Luiz, Sokratis, Xhaka, Guendouzi, Özil, Martinelli, Pépé, Lacazette

Assuming Kolasinac and torriera don’t recover from their injuries


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Post #508581  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:31 pm 
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See Derek Fowlds, who played civil servant Bernard Woolley in Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, died today aged 82.


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Post #508582  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:35 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Northbank Memories wrote:
Charlie George. The King of Highbury, Holloway and Rowstock Gardens. Blimey Exiled back from Exile..


Wotcha Steve. Been banged up?


Always. Still going over the Arsenal for my sins. Surviving. You?


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Post #508583  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:49 pm 
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dec wrote:
TAFKAEiN wrote:

Stapleton.

Comes across as a bit of an odd character. He was a pundit on Irish TV for a good few years. Not sure there is a whole lot going on upstairs but he was relentlessly negative.

Famously described Keown eagle armed barracking of Nistleroy after the Vieira incident the worst thing he had ever seen in football. Thick as pigshit.

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Post #508584  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:51 pm 
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Northbank Memories wrote:
DHD wrote:

Wotcha Steve. Been banged up?


Always. Still going over the Arsenal for my sins. Surviving. You?


Not so dusty, thanks.

Haven't been much at all this season. Ernie's team transported me back to the worst days of GG and I just lost interest. I didn't fancy Arteta at all but I'm beginning to come round to him. He seems to have a certain intensity and insight - seems to be his own man. I hadn't expected that. I'm away a bit in the coming weeks but then think I might start going again.

I was actually going to the Bournemouth game - always loved the Cup - but they shifted it to Monday evening and the travel is just too difficult.

Good to see you back.


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Post #508585  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:14 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
dec wrote:
Comes across as a bit of an odd character. He was a pundit on Irish TV for a good few years. Not sure there is a whole lot going on upstairs but he was relentlessly negative.

Famously described Keown eagle armed barracking of Nistleroy after the Vieira incident the worst thing he had ever seen in football. Thick as pigshit.

Wasn’t that how Fergie described it at the time as well?

Didn’t we get an astonishing amount of bans following that game? From memory it was Lauren, Vieira, Keown and Lehmann all took bans of at least 10 odd games together. Vieira with an extra game for not leaving the field quickly enough - for which no one has ever been banned for since.
Obviously as the biggest and most high profile match in England and almost the world at that time the league were going to absolutely treat us more harshly.


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Post #508586  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:20 pm 
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Man U have triggered a 2 year extension on Bailly’s contract. I always thought Man U were savy having an option on contracts for THEM to extend a deal, it protects players leaving on a free.....however, I think Man U have activated these clauses with bailly, jones, young, mata.... it seems that Man U are so scared of losing players for free that they’re just handing out contract extensions to players clearly not good enough and who need moving on.
We’ve been at the other end of this, but hopefully sorting this now.


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Post #508587  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:29 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Gunfire wrote:
Famously described Keown eagle armed barracking of Nistleroy after the Vieira incident the worst thing he had ever seen in football. Thick as pigshit.

Wasn’t that how Fergie described it at the time as well?

Didn’t we get an astonishing amount of bans following that game? From memory it was Lauren, Vieira, Keown and Lehmann all took bans of at least 10 odd games together. Vieira with an extra game for not leaving the field quickly enough - for which no one has ever been banned for since.
Obviously as the biggest and most high profile match in England and almost the world at that time the league were going to absolutely treat us more harshly.


Didn’t Cole get a ban too. It was ridiculous. Ferguson laid it on thick and it was when he had the refs and the premier league in his pocket


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Post #508588  Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm 
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Watching that Cobra programme

It’s quite good. The episode I’m watching seems a subliminal reference to the lack of tolerance caused by Brexit.

The Robert Carlyle character seems a take on Blair. Sky making much better programmes these days


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Post #508589  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:25 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
No I am with Kiwi on this. Part of the reason we stayed up was Mancini. I believe we would have gone down without him but we will never know.

Good God I don’t believe it. I assumed kiwi was on a wind up, but now you? Mancini was utter shite. Way worse than Mustafi. That’s how bad he was. To give him the credit for keeping us up is laughable. It was mainly Ball, Kidd, Rimmer and Brady. Mancini’s main contribution was to nearly send us down whether or not he cracked a few jokes in the dressing room.

By the way, if Mee said what kiwi said he did about Mancini, it was probably to hide his own incompetence in signing him and releasing McLintock.

Get a paper bag and take a couple of deep breathes thru it. I did not say he was a good player - probably worse than Mustafi but I think he did just enough to help keep us up. But there were plenty of others who also contributed. As I don't have a time machine we will never know if we would have gone down without him.

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Post #508590  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:10 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Get a paper bag and take a couple of deep breathes thru it. I did not say he was a good player - probably worse than Mustafi but I think he did just enough to help keep us up. But there were plenty of others who also contributed. As I don't have a time machine we will never know if we would have gone down without him.

If it’s hard to say whether we would have gone down without him, it’s probably hard to say for sure that any team wouldn’t have still done what they did without a specific player. Or indeed that anything will happen in the future that’s down to human actions or decisions? If they never had Messi perhaps Barcelona would still have won every trophy they did with him? Maybe Peter Tobin and Johanne Dennehy wouldn’t have murdered anyone else had they not been caught and would both have adopted flower arranging as their new hobby (they didn’t act together like Hindley and Brady or Fred and Rose West, by the way).

Did you know Norwich are still mathematically capable of winning the league if they win every single game they have left and Liverpool lose all the games they still have? If that happened Norwich would finish on 62 points and Liverpool on 61. At least until the completion of this weekend’s fixtures when Norwich play Bournemouth and Liverpool play Manchester United.

I imagine the results of the nearest teams to Liverpool would also have to be bad enough for Norwich to overtake them, but I’ve no doubt that is possible meaning Norwich are still mathematically able to win it. But being realistic we all know they won’t.

If we survived with Mancini I am pretty damn certain we would have without him, even without his jokes in the dressing room. Because he was a joke on the pitch as well as in the dressing room. I cannot give Mancini the credit for us staying up.


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Post #508591  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:53 am 
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Mancini may have been mediocre as a footballer but what a memorable tune with The Pink Panther.

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Post #508592  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:12 am 
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Sporting Lisbon are unhappy with the structure of Man U’s proposed transfer fee for Bruno Fernandez. Man U have big bonuses for Fernandez winning the Balon D’Or and Man U winning the Champions League! Sporting saying those payments will never kick in.


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Post #508593  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:15 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
Wasn’t that how Fergie described it at the time as well?

Didn’t we get an astonishing amount of bans following that game? From memory it was Lauren, Vieira, Keown and Lehmann all took bans of at least 10 odd games together. Vieira with an extra game for not leaving the field quickly enough - for which no one has ever been banned for since.
Obviously as the biggest and most high profile match in England and almost the world at that time the league were going to absolutely treat us more harshly.


Didn’t Cole get a ban too. It was ridiculous. Ferguson laid it on thick and it was when he had the refs and the premier league in his pocket

From Wiki
Lauren received a four-game ban – half of the potential ban he could have received – and a £40,000 fine; Keown was suspended for three matches and had to pay a £20,000 fine; Vieira and Parlour were given one-game bans and had to pay £20,000 and £10,000 respectively.[5] Jens Lehmann was originally charged but this was later dropped.[5] Ashley Cole was not suspended but was given a £10,000 fine.[5] Ryan Giggs and Cristiano Ronaldo both pleaded not guilty to their involvement in the incident, but after a five-hour hearing in December 2003, Giggs was handed a £7,500 fine and Ronaldo a £4,000 fine and both were warned about their future conduct.


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Post #508594  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:29 am 
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Lots on TG e internet saying we’ve agreed a 5 year deal with Kurzawa the psg left back, free transfer in the summer. Must mean Kolasinac is off. From what I’ve read Kurzawa seems very similar to Kolasinac so doesn’t improve the squad but could give some extra money to improve other areas


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Post #508595  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:41 am 
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Rich wrote:
Lots on TG e internet saying we’ve agreed a 5 year deal with Kurzawa the psg left back, free transfer in the summer. Must mean Kolasinac is off. From what I’ve read Kurzawa seems very similar to Kolasinac so doesn’t improve the squad but could give some extra money to improve other areas


I wouldn’t make an assumption somebody is leaving I think Arteta sees the fullback positions as a massive problem and his comments the other day were telling. It needs fixing even if it means we are slightly overloaded later on. The only surprise is it’s a left back rather than right back.





“If it happens, we will have to invent something. We are playing with full-backs that are not full-backs.

"They are wingers or central midfielders and could we afford to lose full-backs? No, but we don’t have any full-backs.”


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Post #508596  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:46 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Didn’t Cole get a ban too. It was ridiculous. Ferguson laid it on thick and it was when he had the refs and the premier league in his pocket

From Wiki
Lauren received a four-game ban – half of the potential ban he could have received – and a £40,000 fine; Keown was suspended for three matches and had to pay a £20,000 fine; Vieira and Parlour were given one-game bans and had to pay £20,000 and £10,000 respectively.[5] Jens Lehmann was originally charged but this was later dropped.[5] Ashley Cole was not suspended but was given a £10,000 fine.[5] Ryan Giggs and Cristiano Ronaldo both pleaded not guilty to their involvement in the incident, but after a five-hour hearing in December 2003, Giggs was handed a £7,500 fine and Ronaldo a £4,000 fine and both were warned about their future conduct.


Ah ok,

I think on reflection I might have remembered Ferguson complaining afterwards that Ashley Cole should have banned also.


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Post #508597  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:13 am 
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A Goal magazine feature today in (checks notes...twice) 1969. Probably.


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Post #508598  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:39 am 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
A Goal magazine feature today in (checks notes...twice) 1969. Probably.
Simpson - my favourite of all the 1960s defenders. A beautiful left foot and Gilbertoesque in his positioning.

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Post #508599  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:58 am 
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Here's the clipping I mentioned that got Charlie George in trouble. Sorry for the poor image but you can make him out under the first N in the banner.


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Post #508600  Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:15 pm 
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TAFKAEiN wrote:
Here's the clipping I mentioned that got Charlie George in trouble. Sorry for the poor image but you can make him out under the first N in the banner.

Love that photo Ex. Thanks for posting.


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