Fixtures Thursday October 1st - Liverpool - Anfield - Carabao Cup - 7:45 Pm

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Post #506281  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:59 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
As I watch this with the feeling that it’s like watching two lower half of the table teams it strikes me that if this Arsenal side were in the Championship then they would really struggle to get promoted.

I had the same thought the other day. Put this team in the championship and they would get beaten away from home by a number of teams


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Post #506282  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:01 pm 
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socrates wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
We must have the most inept defensive unit on the planet ... Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka . Mustafi . Luiz .
They look vulnerable every time Norwich have the ball .


We have a defence that can't defend and defensive midfielder who can't defend either. So we have the worst of both worlds.....a dogshite defence with zero protection in front of them.

Saliba has his work cut out! Some serious money - that we won’t have - needs to be spent in defensive positions. And we’ll almost certainly have to replace our two top class strikers in the next 12 months


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Post #506283  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Right now I would offer Brendon Rodgers any type of cheque he can’t refuse. Just keep offering numbers till he can’t say no.

This requires strong arrogant thinking and a maker of unfashionable difficult decisions. That is him. As an example Lacazette needs to be dropped, you can’t play the 2 of them let’s be honest. It’s always been an issue

We are all over the place because of poor decisions and shocking management


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Post #506284  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:16 pm 
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socrates wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
We must have the most inept defensive unit on the planet ... Chambers , Kolasinac , Xhaka . Mustafi . Luiz .
They look vulnerable every time Norwich have the ball .


We have a defence that can't defend and defensive midfielder who can't defend either. So we have the worst of both worlds.....a dogshite defence with zero protection in front of them.



True ..... and while I said it would take Fred a few weeks to coach their negativity out of them I'm severly unimpressed he selected that shower of sh**t in the first place .

Surely the U23s must be better . We could easily have shipped another three goals in the second half

Totally outplayed by the bottom two clubs


Arsenal Women won 11 - 1 ... maybe they should swap divisions .


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Post #506285  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:20 pm 
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Can anyone who managed to watch the game tell us if there was any signs of improvement in any aspect?
The comms said the workrate and tempo seemed improved.


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Post #506286  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:22 pm 
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I used to think a good coach could take any back 4 and a pair of holding mids and turn them in to a functional, disciplined and hard to break down unit. I’m really not sure with the players we have. They lack so many of the basics and have had so long and show no sign of learning or improvement.
Gary Neville called Arsenal’s defence ‘uncoachable’ and its hard to argue


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Post #506287  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I used to think a good coach could take any back 4 and a pair of holding mids and turn them in to a functional, disciplined and hard to break down unit. I’m really not sure with the players we have. They lack so many of the basics and have had so long and show no sign of learning or improvement.
Gary Neville called Arsenal’s defence ‘uncoachable’ and its hard to argue


Hard to argue but I think they are literally uncoached.

I have no idea what’s happening at this point because when Saka and Martinelli are coming on but Pépé isn’t how can you explain that. It’s just crazy.

This season could be an absolute disaster


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Post #506288  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:30 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I used to think a good coach could take any back 4 and a pair of holding mids and turn them in to a functional, disciplined and hard to break down unit. I’m really not sure with the players we have. They lack so many of the basics and have had so long and show no sign of learning or improvement.
Gary Neville called Arsenal’s defence ‘uncoachable’ and its hard to argue



Lee Dixon said give them to George Graham for a month you'd see improvement but I'd tend to side with Neville .

I was just thinking regarding Xhaka , Kolasinac , Mustafi and Chambers

... there must be some pretty sh**t players in Switzerland , Bosnia , Germany and England for those four clowns to have made it this far .


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Post #506289  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:33 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
As an example Lacazette needs to be dropped, you can’t play the 2 of them let’s be honest. It’s always been an issue

Lacazette has been so average this year. I honestly think you replace the entire eleven who started today save for Leno, Guendouzi and Aubameyang and not miss them. So many holes in midfield and just poor recruitment at CB. We're better than our current form, or at least should be, but not by much. We are also some way off the top 4 standard. We are exactly where we deserve to be in the league.

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Post #506290  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:39 pm 
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Today felt a bit like a Wenger team towards the end of his reign. Okay going forward but suspect at the back. At least the players put in a shift and in the early stages of the match they had a spring in their step. But its only been 2 days and there is a lot of work to do. At least its different and the players don't look sad and confused....yet.


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Post #506291  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Darren wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
As an example Lacazette needs to be dropped, you can’t play the 2 of them let’s be honest. It’s always been an issue

Lacazette has been so average this year. I honestly think you replace the entire eleven who started today save for Leno, Guendouzi and Aubameyang and not miss them. So many holes in midfield and just poor recruitment at CB. We're better than our current form, or at least should be, but not by much. We are also some way off the top 4 standard. We are exactly where we deserve to be in the league.


I think your right Darren but I find it hard to judge the players these days. They are not being set up correctly at all. There wasn’t a single live wire type in that starting line up today.

That’s mental, did we learn nothing from pires, overmars and Ljungberg?

Who is running between the lines and causing problems. Nobody cause they were all on the bench. Plus Saka and Willock are being let down.

I can’t see the board waiting until the summer. Offer a serious cheque guys


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Post #506292  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Can anyone who managed to watch the game tell us if there was any signs of improvement in any aspect?
The comms said the workrate and tempo seemed improved.

No. We ended the game on the back foot unable to strike g more than 2 passes together.

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Post #506293  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:49 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Darren wrote:
Lacazette has been so average this year. I honestly think you replace the entire eleven who started today save for Leno, Guendouzi and Aubameyang and not miss them. So many holes in midfield and just poor recruitment at CB. We're better than our current form, or at least should be, but not by much. We are also some way off the top 4 standard. We are exactly where we deserve to be in the league.


I think your right Darren but I find it hard to judge the players these days. They are not being set up correctly at all. There wasn’t a single live wire type in that starting line up today.

That’s mental, did we learn nothing from pires, overmars and Ljungberg?

Who is running between the lines and causing problems. Nobody cause they were all on the bench. Plus Saka and Willock are being let down.

I can’t see the board waiting until the summer. Offer a serious cheque guys

Interesting to see how we play this. I've been quite encouraged by Josh Kroenke putting himself front and centre recently. Clearly Arsenal is his remit and he at least plays the PR game a bit better than his father. I really hope they go in hard for the right guy.

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Post #506294  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Can anyone who managed to watch the game tell us if there was any signs of improvement in any aspect?
The comms said the workrate and tempo seemed improved.

For the first 10-15 minutes of each half, more so the first, we had an encouraging spring in our step. Then Norwich woke up, the game became chaotic and we looked like we could concede at any moment. Enormous gaping holes in the midfield, as others have pointed out. Indecisive and at times inept defending, as we've all become used to. Up front Lacazette was anonymous all afternoon, and Aubameyang too wide. Özil was Özil, flitted in and out of the game occasionally looked tidy but a million miles away from the king of assists he once was. Willock looked lost, Xhaka was ponderous and slow, Chambers was awful.


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Post #506295  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:27 pm 
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Rich wrote:
We play Brighton at home in the league next....then by my rating I think we play 10 games where I really can’t see where a win comes from before we play Newcastle at home. That awkward combination of very good teams coming to the emirates and us going away to average teams. It is a run full of defeats and a few draws.
We really could find ourselves in the bottom 6

:20hospitals:

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Post #506296  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Emery must be snickering away. Money in his pocket and Freddy simply carried on for him.

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Post #506297  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:55 pm 
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As we rebuild this side I don’t think Aubameyang and Lacazette are part of it. Contracts running down, we play better with just one of them, their age and we will need to take the money when they don’t sign new contracts.

If we have to take a backwards step to avoid losing both for free then we have to get as much money as we can for both. We needed champions league last year, were even more desperate for it this year. Without it we can’t afford to keep both, the fans won’t like it but it is the sensible decision for the long term future - because we’ve already messed up the short term.


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Post #506298  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:02 pm 
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One of the most worrying things for me is that I’d say every single team in the league is capable of a reaction after a poor performance apart from us.
Look at Southampton after the 9-0
Newcastle beat Man U 1-0 at home
Watford against us
Etc etc
Where has our reaction been to any of our really poor performances this season


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Post #506299  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:02 pm 
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Rich wrote:
As we rebuild this side I don’t think Aubameyang and Lacazette are part of it. Contracts running down, we play better with just one of them, their age and we will need to take the money when they don’t sign new contracts.

If we have to take a backwards step to avoid losing both for free then we have to get as much money as we can for both. We needed champions league last year, were even more desperate for it this year. Without it we can’t afford to keep both, the fans won’t like it but it is the sensible decision for the long term future - because we’ve already messed up the short term.


We are only 7 points off 4th. It's doable with a good coach. Thinking about it we should get Allegri in and screw the entertainment.

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Post #506300  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:04 pm 
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Sanchez Flores is now available :42laughter:

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Post #506301  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:35 pm 
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long time gooner wrote:
Sanchez Flores is now available :42laughter:

And Marco Silva next by chance. :1laughter:

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Post #506302  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Remarkable. We are totally broken and yet we are still ahead of Manchester United.

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Post #506303  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Can anyone who managed to watch the game tell us if there was any signs of improvement in any aspect?
The comms said the workrate and tempo seemed improved.


Yes, in the first half we moved the ball around the pitch a lot quicker and there was more tempo to our build up play than in recent turgid performances under Emery. We really should have scored one or two before Norwich got their opener on a counter attack. Another positive was the ability to come back from behind twice showing a bit more spirit when things went against us.

Aside from that it was quite familiar - poor defending as a team and as individuals. Hard to see how we are going to improve much with the current personnel at the back. Norwich, to be fair, probably would have won the game but for some great saves from Leno and an outstanding block from Torriera.

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Post #506304  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Nice touch by Freddie to pay tribute to Emery with that starting line-up.

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Post #506305  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Not football related but “The Irishman” on Netflix is quite a movie

Possibly Scorsese’s last epic and De Niro’s last proper hurrah and taps into the themes of sorrow and getting old. Really worth a watch


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Post #506306  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:59 pm 
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dec wrote:
Nice touch by Freddie to pay tribute to Emery with that starting line-up.

Indeed .

Someone has to wake up to the fact that when we overload the defence it doesn't actually lessen our chances of conceding a goal .... it just means

[ a ] we have more personel looking totally stupid scurrying back in Keystone Cops manner ..and

[b ] we create less at the other end .

Wenger got a nod as well here Dec ...... Kolasinac , Xhaka , Mustafi and Chambers were all his buys .
.


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Post #506307  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:06 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Your missus had a word to you recently about your rum intake?

She wouldn't dare Gaz .. there's only one boss in this household .

I let her have her way 95% of the time but really important issues like how many V8 s I feel like buying ; how much rum I want to drink . She just has to zip it .

Bought another Ford flathead couple of days ago .

Getting my son's alternator checked at a local auto electrician started waffling to this old coot .
He was getting his trailer wiring sorted ..... "yeah I've got one of those somewhere "... went down to his workshop , old bulldozers , forklifts , pumps , gearboxes , hunks of pipe , steelwork ...you name it he had it

He roots around ... "under that bit of canvas "... there she is .... been lying there for fifty years . Seized solid . Paid $100 ... pretty horrified when I pulled the heads and sump off but after a high pressure water blast , a bit of wire buffing it looks more presentable .
If I can hammer the pistons out I think I can get it running .

He had a whopping great brute of speedboat called Topaz 30 feet long , had a 540 cubic inch Chevvy twin turbo producing 1100 horsepower ; reckons it does 85 mph .

https://boatmags.com/classic-offshore-powerboat-topaz/

There is some amazing gear stacked in yards all over the place. Finding it and actually negotiating a price is even harder. In Brisbane working at the moment. Don't know how people can live in capitol cities.

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Post #506308  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:04 pm 
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From the guardian
It’s striking, for example, how rarely you see an Arsenal player genuinely sprinting at full pelt. Occasionally you will see them running, but it is very much a going-through-the-motions, leave-your-desk-at-5pm sort of running. It’s striking how few second balls they win. And as Norwich caught them on the counter time and again, it was striking just how hesitant they seemed in the jaws of contact: dainty tackles, squeamish blocks, toes tentatively offered in the general direction of the ball. Arsenal players defend like every part of their body is their face.

And so there was the skittish Onel Hernández, allowed to saunter deep into the Arsenal penalty area from just in front of the dugouts, with not a scintilla of resistance. There was Pukki, utterly hoodwinking David Luiz for the first goal with the old pro’s trick of changing direction. There was Shkodran Mustafi, meanwhile, pointing vaguely in the direction of where he himself should probably have been going.


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Post #506309  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I used to think a good coach could take any back 4 and a pair of holding mids and turn them in to a functional, disciplined and hard to break down unit. I’m really not sure with the players we have. They lack so many of the basics and have had so long and show no sign of learning or improvement.
Gary Neville called Arsenal’s defence ‘uncoachable’ and its hard to argue


I was like you, Rich, I thought any half decent coach with some degree of defensive nous could organise a back four and make a team difficult to beat.

However, I am not sure any coach in the world could turn our motley crew into a solid defence. I mean today we literally had dumb and dumber in the centre of the defence and two fullbacks who can't really defend. That's not an easy fix for any coach.


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Post #506310  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Still have absolutely no idea why Freddie gave Martinelli 5 mins (and only that because of added time).

Surely the only time you make a sub in the 88th min is if you are hanging on and want to waste some time or there's an injury.

Give the kid 20 mins ffs!

Fair to say my first impressions of Freddie's team selection and decision-making were not particularly favorable.


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Post #506311  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:55 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Still have absolutely no idea why Freddie gave Martinelli 5 mins (and only that because of added time).

Surely the only time you make a sub in the 88th min is if you are hanging on and want to waste some time or there's an injury.

Give the kid 20 mins ffs!

Fair to say my first impressions of Freddie's team selection and decision-making were not particularly favorable.


I don't really think Ljungberg had a lot of choices with the squad, With current injuries it's hard to pick a 1st 11 when the defence is a mess and there is no engine room in CM or quick decision maker (Ceballos injured, Özil not interested). Below is an attempt of what could have been put on the field and what I'd be asking them to do. Whether they could do it or not is debatable and therefore expecting a sudden turnaround with 2 days notice is a bit optimistic.

Leno
Mainland Niles, Sokratis, Chambers, Tierney
Xhaka (mid to long range passing), Torreira (just sit in front of the defence),
Guendouzi / Mailand Niles / Saka / Smith Rowe (transition play, shorter range passing and driving forward)
Pépé / Lacazette, Aubameyang, Willock / Lacazette

Luiz should be dropped no matter what. His erratic, kamikaze defending is constantly pulling people out of position and will make any back 4 worse than the sum of its parts. Couldn't believe it when we bought him and he is actually worse than he was at Chelsea

After the comments in this article, I wouldn't expect drastic changes next week either. Emery was allowed to continue for way too long and it's going to now take time to turn this around.

https://arseblog.news/2019/12/ljungberg ... e-players/


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Post #506312  Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:29 pm 
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grantyboy wrote:
socrates wrote:
Still have absolutely no idea why Freddie gave Martinelli 5 mins (and only that because of added time).

Surely the only time you make a sub in the 88th min is if you are hanging on and want to waste some time or there's an injury.

Give the kid 20 mins ffs!

Fair to say my first impressions of Freddie's team selection and decision-making were not particularly favorable.


I don't really think Ljungberg had a lot of choices with the squad, With current injuries it's hard to pick a 1st 11 when the defence is a mess and there is no engine room in CM or quick decision maker (Ceballos injured, Özil not interested). Below is an attempt of what could have been put on the field and what I'd be asking them to do. Whether they could do it or not is debatable and therefore expecting a sudden turnaround with 2 days notice is a bit optimistic.

Leno
Mainland Niles, Sokratis, Chambers, Tierney
Xhaka (mid to long range passing), Torreira (just sit in front of the defence),
Guendouzi / Mailand Niles / Saka / Smith Rowe (transition play, shorter range passing and driving forward)
Pépé / Lacazette, Aubameyang, Willock / Lacazette

Luiz should be dropped no matter what. His erratic, kamikaze defending is constantly pulling people out of position and will make any back 4 worse than the sum of its parts. Couldn't believe it when we bought him and he is actually worse than he was at Chelsea

After the comments in this article, I wouldn't expect drastic changes next week either. Emery was allowed to continue for way too long and it's going to now take time to turn this around.

https://arseblog.news/2019/12/ljungberg ... e-players/

Fred's comments in that article suggest that Pépé isn't impressing - or 'putting in' - on the training pitch.


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Post #506313  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:14 am 
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In hindsight, we should have used the 72 mil to buy a CB. We need more than 1 reliable one. This defence is letting the team down.

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Post #506314  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:18 am 
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We are 7 points from Top 4 places, and 7 points from the relegation zone. If this form continues, we will be at the relegation zone.

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Post #506315  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:19 am 
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Gunfire wrote:
Rich wrote:
As we rebuild this side I don’t think Aubameyang and Lacazette are part of it. Contracts running down, we play better with just one of them, their age and we will need to take the money when they don’t sign new contracts.

If we have to take a backwards step to avoid losing both for free then we have to get as much money as we can for both. We needed champions league last year, were even more desperate for it this year. Without it we can’t afford to keep both, the fans won’t like it but it is the sensible decision for the long term future - because we’ve already messed up the short term.


We are only 7 points off 4th. It's doable with a good coach. Thinking about it we should get Allegri in and screw the entertainment.


Also 7 points off the relegation zone

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Post #506316  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:24 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Not football related but “The Irishman” on Netflix is quite a movie

Possibly Scorsese’s last epic and De Niro’s last proper hurrah and taps into the themes of sorrow and getting old. Really worth a watch


Yes, a very good show. And Al Pacino, Joe Pesci in it too. 3 very good actors.

I have one to recommend too. Catch Alphago. Slow build up, with lots of dialogue about AI etc etc. And it should evoke a lot of positive emotions towards the end. It did for me. A must watch for players of the game Go.

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Post #506317  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:46 am 
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Rich wrote:
From the guardian
It’s striking, for example, how rarely you see an Arsenal player genuinely sprinting at full pelt. Occasionally you will see them running, but it is very much a going-through-the-motions, leave-your-desk-at-5pm sort of running.

Can't blame them for not really trying though.

Some of them are on barely £100,000-a-week - Hardly worth even getting out of bed for that, really.


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Post #506318  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:51 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
In hindsight, we should have used the 72 mil to buy a CB. We need more than 1 reliable one. This defence is letting the team down.

Pépé was bought primarily to give us a threat on the counter away from home. Someone who can dribble the ball and give width.
The strangest part is that he’s started to settle, get goals and confidence and then he’s been dropped. He’s been a victim of the unbalanced squad. Playing Pépé means we have to play a lone front man with 3 behind or the similar 4-3-3.
If we sold Lacazette and had zaha
Managed to keep ramsey and ditch Özil
Managed to ditch Xhaka and have a kante type player
Then you have some balance in the midfield and attack


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Post #506319  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:16 am 
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Rich wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
In hindsight, we should have used the 72 mil to buy a CB. We need more than 1 reliable one. This defence is letting the team down.

Pépé was bought primarily to give us a threat on the counter away from home. Someone who can dribble the ball and give width.


Morning Rich,

Pépé is an odd one. He has magical quick feet and the potential to do great things but for whatever reason is being sidelined by the coaches. He has certainly not hit the heights yet, bar the two free kicks, but has not been terrible either. Infact, he was probably our biggest threat in some of the games he did play.

His downside is he does try to dribble sometimes in inappropriate areas and gets caught in possession. His tracking back is not the best either.

I think he just needs games and the more the better. The last europa game would have been ideal but he was sidelined again. Some time in the gym building up his strength to help deal with the physical nature of the PL would be helpful as well.


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Post #506320  Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:29 am 
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I very much doubt that we will persuade a top quality, international manager to take over this shambles. They would need so much cash just to invest in our poor defence and midfield that their demands for this support from KSE would immediately mean that they were out of the running.

In fact I strongly believe that Emery got the job precisely for this reason. He convinced KSE that a decent team was possible with minimal investment in defensive positions whereas other candidates probably told KSE the truth and were immediately binned in favour of the cheaper option.

In January we need two top quality CBs as Chambers, Luis, Sok and Mustafi are not good enough.

We also need an old fashioned midfield enforcer who can organise the team when we lose the ball. I remain to be convinced about Torreira (there must be a reason why they will not play him) and Xakha gets bypassed too easily although I feel we gain more as a team with him than without him. There seems more structure and organisation with him playing.

After this they just need to offload Özil and sort out the front three. Easy peasy!

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