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Post #480001  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:07 pm 
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On a general point, I'd be wary of invoking the presumed will of the departed and missed unless you had a close relationship with that person. That said, TG, I basically agree with you politically, but still think you went a bit OTT with a couple of your posts last night. Lets remember that its the internet, and most of us know very little about each other beyond our posting habits.

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Post #480002  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Thinking about it, some might say bubbling, May's call for a Public Inquiry needs to be given a big boot. She should be reminded how long The Hillsboro Inquiry took and how the result of it proved nothing.

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

On this point I hope TG agrees with me for a change


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Post #480003  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:41 pm 
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lomekian wrote:

Yeah, he's a right nasty scumbag. The kind of man that one would like to punch if you saw him in the street.


Red Alert Bernard ...... I'd be thinking long and hard before engaging in another interminable debate with this guy .

Watching the next home match with a broken nose doesn't have much appeal .


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Post #480004  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:45 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

That will surely depend on whether any existing laws were broken. I'm not a lawyer and haven't been able to follow the story too much today, but has that been established yet?

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Post #480005  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:35 pm 
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dec wrote:
Jesse Lingard is on 100k per week. Theo must feel undervalued.

Stevie Wonder did the negotiating on behalf of the club


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Post #480006  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:47 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Yeah, he's a right nasty scumbag. The kind of man that one would like to punch if you saw him in the street.

Red Alert Bernard ...... I'd be thinking long and hard before engaging in another interminable debate with this guy .

Watching the next home match with a broken nose doesn't have much appeal .

:1laughter:

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Post #480007  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:51 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
dec wrote:
Jesse Lingard is on 100k per week. Theo must feel undervalued.

Stevie Wonder did the negotiating on behalf of the club

Hi Kiwi

Have you watched any of the Lions tourl? Sky are hyping it to death but your club sides have already burst a few bubbles. I reckon the All Blacks will murder them.

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Post #480008  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:14 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year................... and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

The first bit sounds reasonable to the man in the street but I'd imagine the duck shoving that going to take place over the gas lines , building materials , cause of the fire will take much longer ....... police investigation , fire experts , lawyers , courts involved .
Speed isn't the keynote for any of those doodles .

as for the "Any accused's assets frozen immediately " :laughing7: how off the wall is that ..?

So someone points the finger at the gas fitters , the builders , ceiling contractors , flooring specialists and they all have their assets frozen ...how do their families live for however long the enquiry takes ...?

Fire retardant coated columns , sprinkler systems seems the logical answer but even so filling them with cheap furniture , curtains , clothing plenty of man made fibre , plastic toys then run gas lines throughout the building seems a recipe for disaster .

At least with electric something shorts out it can blow a fuse .... whereas an unchecked chip pan fire , the problem is exacerbated .


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Post #480009  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:32 pm 
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dec wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Stevie Wonder did the negotiating on behalf of the club

Hi Kiwi

Have you watched any of the Lions tourl? Sky are hyping it to death but your club sides have already burst a few bubbles. I reckon the All Blacks will murder them.


Kia Ora Dec .... yeah I watched the Blues and Highlanders games . The Crusaders game coincided with an NRL match so ended up watching that .
Yes , I think I remarked to Welsh John it was going to be a tough ask as shown against the Highlanders who had nine of the first team squad missing on All Black duty and injury .
and yes there is a tendency to think the All Blacks will murder them but I think there are signs there they could compete well . They could just as easily have won the two matches , they lost .
For some godforsaken reason the All Blacks are notoriously slow starters , they give away a couple of early penalties ... who knows

You Irish have shown in Chicago ..... getting amongst them fully committed ; can produce dividends.

They play the Maoris here in Rotorua tomorrow night , the stadium is only about quarter of a mile from my house , so I'm going to put the TV on and open the ranchslider to get the atmosphere .


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Post #480010  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:43 pm 
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The blood drips from their fingers

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2017/06/ ... abitation/

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Post #480011  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:51 am 
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DHD wrote:
As Rich said, sprinklers are required in new buildings over 30m high but they do not have to be retro-fitted in existing high buildings.

Moving on, it’s quite common for gas to be available in high rise blocks both for heating and for cooking. Gas heating is far more sustainable than electric and some ethnic minorities will only cook over an open flame.

The route by which the individual gas pipes get up to the flats differs and there are a number of options, though the common feature is ventilation so as to avoid a potentially dangerous build-up of gas. The simplest method is to run the supply pipes up the side of the building where any leak vents to the open air. Alternatively, they can be run within a pipe or a duct that is ventilated top and bottom. A more contentious method, though legal and often deemed acceptable, is to run the gas pipes in the stairwell; the theory here is that gas is heavier than air so in the event of a leak, the gas will sink to the lowest level and as soon as the escape door is opened, the stairwell is effectively vented. There are variants on this routing method and I have no idea of the precise strategy employed at Grenfell.

From my understanding of the tragedy, gas pipes or gas leaks were not a contributing factor. There does seem to be some suggestion that gas pipes were located in the stairwell but though this strategy is occasionally rejected, it is still routinely accepted. In this instance, the ‘gas pipes in stairwell’ issue is being used to suggest poor management; I’m not sure that’s fair. I may be wrong of course.

The tragedy here is that no fire strategy has ever anticipated such a cataclysmic fire risk from outside the building. There have been plenty of fires in high rise blocks and by and large, the compartmentalisation of the building has always contained the fire, usually in the room it started but almost always within the flat where it started. This is and always has been basic idea that has advised the design process since we started building upwards. On this occasion though, the fire seems to have ripped up the void behind the external cladding panels fed by a ferocious and ever accelerating stack effect. Regular cavity barriers are designed to stop such a spread and much attention will focus on this aspect of the recent installation. The flames seem to have entered the flats, bow-torch hot through windows that immediately cracked and disintegrated under the heat. Since the flats had ribbon windows, every room - on every floor almost - seemed to catch fire simultaneously. Those who stayed in their compartmentalised flats - as we've all been taught to - didn't stand a chance, poor bastards.

My heart goes out to them.


Pretty horrible really. Who knows what caused it.

I heard that Dubai has implemented a fire safety policy that goes something like...No LPG in new buildings, and for existing buildings, phased cut-off of gas. Residents then have to replace their cooktop with an electric one. Certainly not ideal if you don't have the cash to buy a new stove but they give plenty of notice and have implemented something for the greater good.


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Post #480012  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:50 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year................... and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

The first bit sounds reasonable to the man in the street but I'd imagine the duck shoving that going to take place over the gas lines , building materials , cause of the fire will take much longer ....... police investigation , fire experts , lawyers , courts involved .
Speed isn't the keynote for any of those doodles .

as for the "Any accused's assets frozen immediately " :laughing7: how off the wall is that ..?

So someone points the finger at the gas fitters , the builders , ceiling contractors , flooring specialists and they all have their assets frozen ...how do their families live for however long the enquiry takes ...?

Fire retardant coated columns , sprinkler systems seems the logical answer but even so filling them with cheap furniture , curtains , clothing plenty of man made fibre , plastic toys then run gas lines throughout the building seems a recipe for disaster .

At least with electric something shorts out it can blow a fuse .... whereas an unchecked chip pan fire , the problem is exacerbated .


Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.


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Post #480013  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:12 am 
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bubblechris wrote:

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in.


Them not being boxed in was one of the (many) complaints the residents had raised previously.

It came out last night that the cladding used was 5k less for the whole block could have been fireproof. Five thousand pounds in a multi-million refit. Also the cladding wasn't intended to improve the lives of the residents, it was done to improve the view from local private blocks.

There has also been talk about where the death toll is going to end with people seeming to suggest it could easily reach three figures when the building is cleared.

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Post #480014  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 am 
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DHD - I wonder if you could tell me how sound these thoughts are.

There was a fire regs expert on R4 yesterday talking about why there wouldn't have been a central alarm system fo the whole block. He said something to the effect of this would have led to more false alarms and that would end up with people disabling the alarms but that there should have been a floor by floor system instead. Does that seem right to you?

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Post #480015  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:37 am 
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Exiled wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in.


Them not being boxed in was one of the (many) complaints the residents had raised previously.

It came out last night that the cladding used was 5k less for the whole block could have been fireproof. Five thousand pounds in a multi-million refit. Also the cladding wasn't intended to improve the lives of the residents, it was done to improve the view from local private blocks.

There has also been talk about where the death toll is going to end with people seeming to suggest it could easily reach three figures when the building is cleared.


The tories are suppressing the way the media is reporting this. Everyone in the local area believes the death toll could reach between 100-150 large. Apparently many in the top 3 floors had no chance. Surely at this stage there is a strong indication of the size of the tragedy.

Lily Allen made the point the way the media are reporting this incident is being micro managed. She might not be wrong

.... and this geezer is spot on.

https://twitter.com/jamzldn/status/875345120941551616

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Post #480016  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:01 am 
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Exiled wrote:
DHD - I wonder if you could tell me how sound these thoughts are.

There was a fire regs expert on R4 yesterday talking about why there wouldn't have been a central alarm system fo the whole block. He said something to the effect of this would have led to more false alarms and that would end up with people disabling the alarms but that there should have been a floor by floor system instead. Does that seem right to you?


Morning Ex

It does sound right. In multi-tenanted buildings, one of the problems with Fire Alarm systems and all the paraphernalia that come with them - break-glass call points, extinguishers etc - is vandalism and mis-use. It happens. It's also one of the reasons that sprinkler systems aren't fitted everywhere.

Again, a single-floor alarm fits with the overall fire strategy of compartmentation. The theory is -
was - that there should be no reason to evacuate anywhere but the floor or flat where the fire has broken out. Unless it's your room or your flat that's on fire, you're supposed to stay where you are. Clearly, that strategy doesn't deal with what happened at Grenfell where all the rooms on every floor were set ablaze from the outside and almost simultaneously. The effect was similar to an Hiroshima-style atomic device going off - a super-heated fireball outside every window. It isn't obvious what sort of fire strategy could have coped with that.

On your earlier point, I’ve no wish to be pedantic and I’m certainly not making any excuses for the building owners or their management team, but we need a bit of perspective here, please. The prime reason for cladding these buildings is to improve their thermal performance and to replace 40-year-old windows. In doing so, the buildings’ outward appearances must change and it isn’t unreasonable to try to make them look as good as possible. These facelift programmes have been rolled out all over the country to upgrade what’s left of our affordable housing stock, making them easier to heat and cheaper to run. It's not just tall buildings either but involves terraces and bungalows as well. So far, the programme has been perceived as a good thing that enhances Tenants' living conditions.


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Post #480017  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:21 am 
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Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that in detail DHD. Much appreciated.

On the cladding point I guess it comes down to whether choices were made because of appearance or because of effect. The quotes in this would suggest appearance was the main driving factor in the choices made. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 89951.html

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Post #480018  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:42 am 
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The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

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Post #480019  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:49 am 
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Exiled wrote:
Thanks for taking the trouble to answer that in detail DHD. Much appreciated.

On the cladding point I guess it comes down to whether choices were made because of appearance or because of effect. The quotes in this would suggest appearance was the main driving factor in the choices made. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 89951.html


The cladding system used here is termed 'rain screen'. It's a composite system built up with different manufacturers' products overlaid and fixed on a metal framing system with a free-draining cavity between them. In simple terms, the insulating material is fixed to the existing wall and then an outer layer is added which doesn't have much technical purpose other than to keep the weather off the insulating material - i.e. to act as a rain screen. There's a gap between the two layers to allow any rain that gets around the edges of the outer panel to drain away. Apart from being rain proof, the major function of the outer layer is to create a visual effect - to look good. All sorts of colours, textures and patterns are available.

It seems that in this case, the cavity between the two layers has functioned as a chimney to accelerate and super-heat the combustion gasses - the 'stack' effect. It's the same principle as a bunsen burner; it's all well understood. To remove this risk, the design would (should) have included cavity barriers at regular horizontal and vertical intervals. The barriers are usually made of a compressible incombustible material that's wedged in place so that the draught is cut off. One of the major points of the investigation will be to establish whether these cavity barriers were correctly installed.

I haven't seen a definitive specification either of the outer skin or the insulating layer so it's difficult to comment on the respective levels of flammability involved here, but all cladding products are categorised in terms of the materials' reaction to heat - the ability to resist combustion and propensity to spread flames.

It's possible to speculate that the panels - outer and/or inner - may have reached such a temperature that they burned their way past/through the barrier. Regardless of classification, just about anything will burn if it gets hot enough.


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Post #480020  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:53 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

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Post #480021  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:06 am 
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dec wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
The latest transfer news is that Ronaldo is leaving Real - fugitive on the run and we have made an offer for Lacazette. Not sure if any of it is true. 27 days to our first game.

Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

He only owes 14 mil - hardly worth bothering about. Hope they seize his house for starters.

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Post #480022  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:33 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Thinking about it, some might say bubbling, May's call for a Public Inquiry needs to be given a big boot. She should be reminded how long The Hillsboro Inquiry took and how the result of it proved nothing.

We should all demand an enquiry that takes no longer than 6 months and that those found guilty should be jailed and heavily fined within the year and any accused's assets frozen immediately.

On this point I hope TG agrees with me for a change

Indeed. Commissions of Inquiry can be very effective, but they are often a way of booting for touch. Get it into row XX is the mentality. The ones we have here are run entirely by lawyers who have no expertise on the issue. So you have a lot of people coming in and testifying on something like whether higher education should be free-free, then the lawyers go off and make a decision.

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Post #480023  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:34 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
dec wrote:
Those tax authorities are annoying aren't they?

We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

He only owes 14 mil - hardly worth bothering about. Hope they seize his house for starters.

I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

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Post #480024  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
dec wrote:
We cannot afford Ronaldo. Simple as that.

I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.

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Post #480025  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I wouldn't want him. Usmanov is less odious.

At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

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Post #480026  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:00 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
At least Ronaldo is less odious than Kroenke, though.
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

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Post #480027  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:59 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

I'll join the fishing expedition!

Anyone who thinks Kroenke is more odious than Usmanov because they don't like the formers involvement in Arsenal are either ignorant or completely without a functioning moral compass.


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Post #480028  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
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With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.


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Post #480029  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.


Wasn't Sanchez done as well on the Spanish tax thingy. Their authorities don't mess around. We should take a leaf out of their book

I'd offer him a 2 year deal to be honest, we'd have to put up with his cuntiness and preening but theres no doubt he's a talent. Would at least bring some amusement after Sanchez is gone.

Just imagine the images of Ronaldo losing his *%^@ on the pitch after we ship a 2 goal lead versus palace etc because Wenger can't defend.That's comedy you can't put a price on

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Post #480030  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Decaf wrote:
No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

I'll join the fishing expedition!

Anyone who thinks Kroenke is more odious than Usmanov because they don't like the formers involvement in Arsenal are either ignorant or completely without a functioning moral compass.

By stopping Kroenke getting enough shares to delist Arsenal, Usmanov is doing the club some good. By giving Wenger so much power that even with a split board he gives Wenger a two year extension without any loss of his huge control, I consider Kroenke to be doing the club damage. Bollocks to any self-perceived tarty moral compass.

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Post #480031  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 pm 
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david.d wrote:
With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.

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Post #480032  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:30 pm 
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DHD, some good explanations of the factors at play in the Tower tragedy. I've seen a lot of wild, sensationalist speculating. Your posts outline the possibilities but no one knows for sure until the enquiry has been completed.
May I ask what your line of work is? I work as an architect in London so feel pretty well informed, the industry is frantically reviewing all similar schemes, phones are ringing non stop.
I think legislation will have to change.


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Post #480033  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.
I don't like Ronaldo but I imagine it has come as quite a shock to him and Real Madrid to find the Spanish state has the effronetry to expect them to meet their tax obligations.

The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

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Post #480034  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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What an odious bitch theresa may is.
Where is her compassion, she rightly met the emergency services at the site of the tragedy who all deserve our enormous credit but what about meeting some of the people who have been affected by this horrific terrible tragedy. Didnt they also deserve some of her time. No she scuttled away like the bitch she is.
Fair play to Corbyn and Khan who knew the hostile atmosphere they would be entering but they did it anyway.
Corbyn is growing in stature.


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Post #480035  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:58 pm 
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david.d wrote:
With the continual links to lacazette im amazed we are not sniffing around abumayeng who to me is the more superior striker with lots of pace.
Seems psg have dropped out and he is available.
Exactly thd type of striker we should be looking at.
And around the 50 to 60 million mark.
He would be perfect for us.


And I'm surprised, apart from Liverpool, no other club is interested in Salah. Better than Mahrez in my opinion.


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Post #480036  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Good point Goonie
On another point i really hope this is not another summer where we are at the whim of unsettled players waiting for them to show their hand before we conduct our major transfer business.
Really cant afford another start to the season where we are unprepared.
Lets get our business done early.


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Post #480037  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:16 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
The Fake Ron's buy-out clause is said to be about £850m. If Usmnov really loves Arsenal he could sort that out surely?

Would you expect him to when he's not offered a place on the board? If I had Usmanov's money and shares but was excluded from the board, then I wouldn't.

_________________
Kroenke out!


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Post #480038  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Another successful fishing expedition by Isaac Decaf?

No. I just think Ronaldo is exceptionally odious example of tax-dogding, strutting, whinging toxic machismo. He is a terrible example to the youth, which cannot be said of the stage-villain Usmanov.

I don't think Kroenke is particularly odious, actually.

It's disgusting... footballers, I *%^@** *%^@ them. Shower of *%^@.


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Post #480039  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:56 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Pete the assets that are frozen are their savings, expensive jewellery, houses, second houses, country homes etc not their day to say living income.

These are professionals we are talking about they should be cable to show immediately what tests were carried out and what tyey were told by experts. You don't just give them 12 million and tell them what to do, they have to earn their money. Experts are employed by the prosecution and a case made out.

Simples, was there a gas certificate, was the cladding tested, were the gaspipes protected i.e. boxed in. All easily proven or disproved. Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves, that's what they deserve.


Hmm ...... it's understandable for people to be angry Chris ; but what you are suggesting is misguided

"the accused" you say ..... like WHO ... the landlord , the construction company , the gas fitters , cladding experts , sprinkler company , alarms installers .

What if some tenant has come home fully lubricated and decided to deep fry some chips , nodded off and KABOOF .

I'm all for action but you can't just scream "someone raped my daughter and string up the next n*gger you come across " .


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Post #480040  Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:16 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Wrote a porno? I'm still starring in them when the hip allows.

Did you not the O on the end of the word ..... he's not talking about the trading in of your old stamp album and lawnmower for cash to fund that day trip to Brighton .

I'm amazed at this continued talk about Lacazette ...any Froggie game I've seen [ not many I admit ] Giroud has started ........ is he such an upgrade on Olivier ?

Giroud departing and Walcott staying doesn't make sense in this corner of the planet


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