Fixtures Wednesday July 15th - Liverpool - Emirates Stadium - 8:15 Pm

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       Injuries                    Steve Gleiber



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Post #480001  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:22 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Daz wrote:


All very well but what it does not show in any shape or form is that this disparity produces refs who are biased against London clubs and Arsenal in particular.

By the way, percentages are extremely misleading in reporting disparities as opposed to natural frequencies. Why not just give the numbers? The media often report some startling percentage risk increase of heart attacks or stroke in, say, taking painkillers when the difference in actual numbers is not really alarming. A 20% increase or decrease may be not very much at all - the percentage just makes it sound scarily significant.


Re %'s, I've already said that Mike Dean's sample size is the greatest possible, and in previous posts I already mentioned the figues. RE the above, Hoy's already given the exact figures.


Not quite sure what you mean by that but don't worry I've kind of stopped caring. Discussing individual refs or regional origins - and I thought (hoped) Hoy's tongue was a little way in his cheek here - given what is going on at the club seems fairly pointless.


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Post #480002  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:23 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Rich wrote:
VAR would have certainly resolved that one in our favour.

Wenger can cling to that. Please can a reporter ask him some serious questions about the defence and what he does on the training pitch....oh what’s the point. Wenger thinks he can get by with a £2m bargain bucket CB from Bolton whilst our rivals actually look to improve their team by doing something radical like buying a player better than anyone they currently have!


Nothing wrong with buying players Like Holding as young back-ups. Its retaining has beens, never were's and never replacing the perennially injured that has done for us. The fact is, our second string is worse than half the reserve teams in the division.

It isn't. It has weaknesses but there are still decent players there. The problem is that they play the exact same way as the first 11 and the first 11 attempt to play like Barcelona. Our lack of a cohesive defensive set-up is depressing. We are an embarrassment without the ball.

Then you have a wonderful young player like AMN being played at left back when he should be getting a run in his natural position in midfield. Also, Mertesacker is finished. Fine player in his day but he is gone.

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Post #480003  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:25 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
long time gooner wrote:
I haven’t spotted anyone on the forum suggesting that refs or double kicks affected the outcome of the game. We were, as you say, awful.


I didn't say effecting the outcome .... but Rich is doing his usual scream about the ref , with Lomekian moaning about the decision .

No -one has mentioned that Nelson dived .... oops sorry not dived " adapted to give us a better advantage " for the free kick that brought us back to 1 - 1 .

Hold on. I just made the point that the ref missed the double kick on the spot kick. Not once said that this single decision or any other ref decision cost us the game - that would be absurd.
Irrespective of how arsenal play or what we do or don’t deserve from the game I still think it is valid to discuss aspects of the game where someone thinks the ref made the wrong decision. The penalty double kick was an interesting one because it happens so rarely, that it would have gone to VAR if it were available and interestingly for me that the pundits and commentator on my feed initially said he might order a retake....showing they didn’t know the rules.
I think the ref and linesmen were unsure what happened, why have the discussion otherwise. Refs have a tough job but some decisions are easier than others, at penalties they have very few things to look at and officiate compared with open play.
Arsenal lost and deserved to lose. The double kick penalty felt like being kicked when we were down. I don’t understand some fans notion that because we played badly we shouldn’t complain or be annoyed if the ref makes a mistake against us. It doesn’t change the result but it adds to my disappointment that I feel there are far too many refs not up to the required standard.


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Post #480004  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:28 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Daz wrote:
Decent interview from Wenger at last.


What did he say?


A resignation speech?.

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Post #480005  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Today also shows how poor the opening rounds of the Europa League are!


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Post #480006  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Disgusting performance. Disgusting selection, by all means make changes but at least have some of the Calvary on the bench.


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Post #480007  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:51 pm 
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Taking out the youngsters from that team, how many of them should have been moved on some time ago?
Staggering that debuchy is still with us, and even if we couldn’t shift him that he’s second choice RB.
Walcott should have been moved on years ago - he reached his limit.
If elneny was signed by another top club he would have been seen as a cheap experiment that hasn’t worked and moved on to make way for a better player rather than flogging a dead horse.
Ospina. How is he here and Szczesny is with Juve for £10m!?
I know he’s had some good performances but I’m not yet convinced by holding, I’m always nervous by any defender who doesn’t have pace. Stick chambers in the same boat and add that he just doesn’t seem comfortable on the ball
Mertesacker should have been moved in to his coaching role sooner. Him and holding got dominated by an 18 year old! How often does a hard working but limited striker do that to our CBs?


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Post #480008  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:00 pm 
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I don’t think Wenger sees the state of the squad he has built, or the state of the squad he will leave us with when he goes (oh happy day!)

Imagine wenger does leave this summer, a new manager comes in and finds
No long term gk, and potentially no back up
A decent RB who needs coaching on the defensive side but no reserve RB
Two good LB but needing to buy another in a year or so
Two young CB not ready for this level
Two senior CB, 1 who doesn’t want to be here and one who is not young and has to nurse injuries
Two centre mids (coq, elneny) not up to standard
3 other CM all with their flaws and unlikely to be good enough for a title winning CM
One good striker and one good plan b striker
3 utility attacking forwards (iwobi, Theo, welbeck) who aren’t good enough for his first 11
A very promising young player AMN. One other youngster who is further behind but has promise Nelson

That is assuming Özil and Sanchez go. Wilshere stays. Ramsey and welbeck will be 12 months from leaving on a free.

What a rebuild! Pep just had to rebuild a defence and it took £150m
We need to rebuild an entire squad!


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Post #480009  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Reminder:

Wenger thinks all those players are better than Lucas Perez

And Joel Campbell

They look spectacularly stupid decisions and not in hindsight because it seemed wrong at the time. Especially letting campbell move whilst ox wasn't signing a new contract. A remarkable mess


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Post #480010  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:28 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
And Joel Campbell

They look spectacularly stupid decisions and not in hindsight because it seemed wrong at the time. Especially letting campbell move whilst ox wasn't signing a new contract. A remarkable mess

I don't think Perez or Campbell have set the world light this season, though I haven't checked.

Got to be said almost the entirety of that second string side should be binned; they just aren't good enough. Hold onto the younger guys (Nelson, Niles, Iwobi and Holding) even though they had stinkers today. Ospina also had a good game to be fair, nothing he could do about the goals.

But the rest of them...absolutely rubbish.

Walcott setting the early tone as usual with an appalling cross shot/pass (whatever!) in the opening minutes.

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Post #480011  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:46 pm 
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dec wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Nothing wrong with buying players Like Holding as young back-ups. Its retaining has beens, never were's and never replacing the perennially injured that has done for us. The fact is, our second string is worse than half the reserve teams in the division.

It isn't. It has weaknesses but there are still decent players there. The problem is that they play the exact same way as the first 11 and the first 11 attempt to play like Barcelona. Our lack of a cohesive defensive set-up is depressing. We are an embarrassment without the ball.

Then you have a wonderful young player like AMN being played at left back when he should be getting a run in his natural position in midfield. Also, Mertesacker is finished. Fine player in his day but he is gone.


Agree with what you say, but bar perhaps spurs, we have a considerably worse 2nd string than all the teams above us, and more than half of the EPL has multiple players in their second string that are better than the equivalents in ours.

Beyond our first 11, only Jack when fit, Monreal, Giroud can claim to be clearly among the better back-ups in the division. Welbeck and Walcott can be effective in the right set up on form, but we've seen no form from either this season, and the rest are the likes of Iwobi, Holding, Chambers and AMN who aren't really ready yet despite talent, or people like Le Coq, Elneny or Debuchy, who are fine to be parachuted in individually, but as soon as you throw more than a couple in, you signifcantly weaken the side.

Even when we had no money at all, there was a better job at youth recruitment, so that Even if we wanted to rest our entire first 11 and first choice subs, we could still put out Bendtner, Vela, Denilson, Diaby, Djourou, Clichy, and others who I forget. None of them kicked on, but as u21 options they had the talent and attitude to perform well in these kind of games. Nelson, Willock & Nketiah have a lot of potential, but none are physically ready for this level really, and to have no one ahead of them aged older than 18, bar the established internationals is a massive failure of recruitment.

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Post #480012  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Lots of stills doing the rounds of Arsenal’s defending for the first forest goal. I will be amazed if anyone could show me a more amateur set up to defend a free kick from any team this season. There’s a long list but it is probably the worst piece of arsenal defending I’ve seen all season because we had all the time we wanted to set up exactly how we wanted and not one player spotted what was wrong.
There will be zero reprucussions for it as well. Every other manager in the league would have those same players doing set piece drills for a week until they got it in their thick skulls


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Post #480013  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:50 pm 
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Got exactly what we deserved.

Said it before but rather than find the current situation depressing, I honestly find it fascinating. For what it’s worth I honestly believe he’s gone in the summer. Have done for some time.

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Post #480014  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:53 pm 
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"It’s pretty easy. The manager made a lot of changes, gave a lot of trust to players who haven’t played a lot recently and I don’t think anybody justified their selection today. That sums it up I think." Mertesacker told the club's website.

"It’s difficult. In the first half we played in the park a little bit. We were not precise, especially in the final third. We couldn’t create a lot of chances. In the second half there was a little bit more spirit from ourselves, but in the duels you could see that they out-battled us and that little momentum never really changed.

"When we scored to make it 3-2 and when he mis-kicked the penalty, obviously we expressed it to the ref but he didn’t listen. It’s difficult to take because for those players who played today, that was probably a last chance to show up and show the manager that they’re ready to play more games. It’s not the case anymore."

"Yes [it was a double contact]. It would’ve been a free-kick for us. You could clearly see it, that’s why we shouted to the referee. He didn’t have any explanation and that’s on him. They obviously spoke to each other, and nobody saw the incident. David saw it and all the players did too."

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Post #480015  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Got exactly what we deserved.

Said it before but rather than find the current situation depressing, I honestly find it fascinating. For what it’s worth I honestly believe he’s gone in the summer. Have done for some time.


Me too. Only way he can save his job is if he wins the Europa League, which looks unlikely.

After last summer's mess and him screwing the club around, Gazidis has been building the team to allow Arsenal to finally work in a modern way. Wenger's internal power has been cut, and his team are, the odd game apart, playing poorly.

Tick...tock...

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Post #480016  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:11 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Lots of stills doing the rounds of Arsenal’s defending for the first forest goal. I will be amazed if anyone could show me a more amateur set up to defend a free kick from any team this season. There’s a long list but it is probably the worst piece of arsenal defending I’ve seen all season because we had all the time we wanted to set up exactly how we wanted and not one player spotted what was wrong.
There will be zero reprucussions for it as well. Every other manager in the league would have those same players doing set piece drills for a week until they got it in their thick skulls


You can pick the bones out of every goal concession and I've just watched it again below and of course he's been given a free run across the box there. Looks to me as if Debuchy should have been more aware of him. Sometimes you need to credit the opposition and for me that's also a great delivery and a clever run and finish. I've seen worse. In fact, for me the second goal is worse as despite the cracking finish we've made a huge number of errors there to concede from a throw in, culminating in a terrible header into danger from Walcott and the midfield completely MIA when the ball lands to yer forest man to hit the shot.
https://www.footbie.com/video/nottingha ... nal-is-out

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Post #480017  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:13 pm 
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I get there seems to be some substance to the feeling he will go in the summer but can you honestly see it ?

I mean can you see Arsenal sacking Wenger ? I can't.

I couldn't see him leaving voluntarily either mid contract either


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Post #480018  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Darren wrote:
Got exactly what we deserved.

Said it before but rather than find the current situation depressing, I honestly find it fascinating. For what it’s worth I honestly believe he’s gone in the summer. Have done for some time.

You think he will go against everything he is proud of and break a contract?
I think he’s here for another 18 months, and if he wants to stay beyond that he will get another contract.
I’d love it if you were right though. We need signings in jan, we need to get some money in from Sanchez and Özil if they won’t sign. What do you do? Keep them both and lose them for zero but give ourself a chance of winning the Europa and getting back in the champions league.....or sell them both for £50m for the pair, bank the cash, write off the season and start again in the summer?


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Post #480019  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Assuming we don't qualify for the CL, I wont be surprised if Wenger leaves this summer. The two year contract makes it easy for him to go whilst avoiding the contract uncertainty of last season. We've been fortunate in the past that no one really threatened our fourth place trophy, but Tottingham and Liverpool's resurgence has meant our stagnating team is looking increasingly like a Europa league team.


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Post #480020  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:21 pm 
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And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level.

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Post #480021  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:21 pm 
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And if it couldn't get worse the Chilean media are reporting Alexis Sanchez is about to be sold to city for 30 odd million



http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/man-city ... xoiogok7o5


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Post #480022  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Rich wrote:
Lots of stills doing the rounds of Arsenal’s defending for the first forest goal. I will be amazed if anyone could show me a more amateur set up to defend a free kick from any team this season. There’s a long list but it is probably the worst piece of arsenal defending I’ve seen all season because we had all the time we wanted to set up exactly how we wanted and not one player spotted what was wrong.
There will be zero reprucussions for it as well. Every other manager in the league would have those same players doing set piece drills for a week until they got it in their thick skulls


You can pick the bones out of every goal concession and I've just watched it again below and of course he's been given a free run across the box there. Looks to me as if Debuchy should have been more aware of him. Sometimes you need to credit the opposition and for me that's also a great delivery and a clever run and finish. I've seen worse. In fact, for me the second goal is worse as despite the cracking finish we've made a huge number of errors there to concede from a throw in, culminating in a terrible header into danger from Walcott and the midfield completely MIA when the ball lands to yer forest man to hit the shot.
https://www.footbie.com/video/nottingha ... nal-is-out

Both are bad but for me the second one is the culmination of lots of individual mistakes. From a set piece there should be 11 players knowing exactly where they should be and where everyone else should be. It’s a free chance to set up properly.the concerning bit is not one player realised the danger of the huge gap that a player could Wonder in to and not be offside


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Post #480023  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:36 pm 
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We were pretty *%^@ and were mildly stitched up.

I don’t really care.


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Post #480024  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:48 pm 
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john1 wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Back to bed. 4am here. My team did me proud.

The only questions I have is when do Walcott and Wenger leave. They can share a cab.


I’ve already offered Walcott a lift; I can easily squeeze another one in

I suggest you may need to upgrade to a small bus. The clean out has a lot of potential participants.

For those, including myself, wanting Walcott to go, when he finds a club and realises the amount of wages they are offering are probably less than the tax he currently pays, I believe he will stay.

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Post #480025  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Its an odd situation. You'd expect your team getting comfortably beaten by a lower league club without a manager, to hurt a bit but it doesn't really.
If Alexis really is allowed to leave now then surely they will need to make a big signing this month otherwise its pretty much giving up mid season.


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Post #480026  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:54 pm 
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Niall wrote:
And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level.

You cannot tackle from behind. If it happened anywhere else on the field it is a free kick. I thought pen, but to me this game was about our overall playing philosophy.

What is it -tippy tappy, direct, quick breaks. We were terrible in the last 40 minutes the only time I watched. Have the rest on DVD to watch today if I need punishing. At one stage shots on target were 7-1 to Forest and I assume Ospina saved us a number of times. The CB's of Mert and Holding beat Chelsea in the cup final last year. Regression is everywhere in the club.

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Post #480027  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:20 pm 
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VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi


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Post #480028  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Rich wrote:
VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi


Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.


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Post #480029  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:28 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:
VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi


Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.

Very good.
I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity.


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Post #480030  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:01 am 
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Rich wrote:
You think he will go against everything he is proud of and break a contract?

I do. I think he’s going to leave.

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Post #480031  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:19 am 
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Niall wrote:
And also the concession of the 4th penalty was atrocious. Advertised pass down the line to Walcott (who waits for the ball that will never come to him) intercepted by Traore who then skins two men with one push through touch as if they weren't there to be one on one with our goalkeeper. Despite the fact that I think Debuchy won the ball and it wasn't a penalty - it was a horrendous goal to concede at any level.
Yes, and of the six goals I would say only one came without defensive error, that being our first. For all the others you can attribute blame. The whole of the Arsenal defence for their first; Holding for their second and third; Mertersacker and the ref for their fourth; and their keeper for Welbeck's goal. Great result for the anti-Arsenals but in truth a game of football mainly without high quality. A good day for dear old Forest, but whoever draws them next must fancy their chances of getting to the 5th Round.

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Post #480032  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:38 am 
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Rich wrote:
Only 4 mins of added time. Haha. It should be double that...
Not that it mattered much, but that was ridiculous and inexplicable given there were five second-half substitutions; two penalties, including the ref needing to talk to the linesman after one; and a longish injury break for a Forest player. This really is something contentious in the game that could be simply improved by taking a leaf out of the books of other sports. Use a clock!

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Post #480033  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:41 am 
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A combination of us winning the trophy 3 times in the last 4 years and just sick and tired of wenger has somewhat numbed the pain of today's defeat.
I so hope Darren is right.
The excitement of wenger going , the excitement of the rumours of who the new manager will be. The buzz of someone and something new.
New hope. New tactics. The first press conference of our new manager.
This is what I'm looking forward to.
Wenger clearly doesn't like what Gazidis has been doing re the changes in the backroom team. His power base is slowly being cut.
I hope he does go in the summer. Just do the right thing man.


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Post #480034  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:44 am 
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Let me add he has given me my best moments as an Arsenal fan but he needs to stop being so selfish and let someone else have a go.
It's TIME.


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Post #480035  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:01 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Reminder:

Wenger thinks all those players are better than Lucas Perez

And Joel Campbell


Oh yes, Joel Campbell, the forgotten man. He is miles better than Walcott and would have been 200% more effective.

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Post #480036  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:10 am 
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Rich wrote:
VAR will be used in both legs of the Chelsea v arsenal cup semi


And if luck would have it, VAR will cancel us a goal, and deny us a penalty.

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Post #480037  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:31 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Yeah but what part of the country was it made in and where does it come from.

Very good.
I’ve read it will only be used for goals (to check no immediate infringement - not something that happened 60 seconds earlier in the same move, it will be used for red cards but not second yellows, and for cases of mistaken identity.

Can I make a point about VAR and the allegedly twice touched penalty.

So much depends on what the VAR person gets to see. On the coverage here I never saw any footage that clearly 100% showed he hit it twice. Jeez it looked like it but nothing to absolutely prove it. So immediately after the incident if the VAR person saw exactly the coverage I did then the refs decision must stand. It is no use TV showing later that night a different camera angle that they did not realise they had. The decision will be made in a 5-10 sec timeframe. If you cannot be sure then you must back the decision already made.

On decisions I never saw any actual footage of how Wellbeck came to shoot wide and the keeper deflected it in. But my first impression was that the keeper had both hands on the ball and wellbeck touched it off him. Maybe it could have been a free to them if there was any camera. Maybe it was my imagination. It was never replayed on our coverage with any way of seeing what happened. But the point is that VAR cannot solve too many problems.

You know I have never been a particular supporter of refs but I feel sorry for them. It is not the refs we should be spending time trying to rectify it is the players cheating, exaggerating and deceiving that is the problem. Review games and hand out cards and suspensions and it will soon stop. But that includes Man U and big club players not just Stoke and Bournemouth players. Have the FA got the balls for it. NO. They are part of the problem not just the refs.

Just watched the game again. Our senior players, other than Ospina let us down. Holding was slow and cumbersome and actually I thought he mentally collapsed. It will be a long way back for him and Mert.

Which brings me to Arsenal traditions. When Arsenal were beaten by Walsall (I think) in the 1930's in an FA Cup upset, Chapman decided one or two of the players would never play for the club again and got rid of them. Arsene you love the values of the club. Over to you.

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Post #480038  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 am 
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Rich wrote:
kiwipete wrote:

I didn't say effecting the outcome .... but Rich is doing his usual scream about the ref , with Lomekian moaning about the decision .

No -one has mentioned that Nelson dived .... oops sorry not dived " adapted to give us a better advantage " for the free kick that brought us back to 1 - 1 .

Hold on. I just made the point that the ref missed the double kick on the spot kick. Not once said that this single decision or any other ref decision cost us the game -
I don’t understand some fans notion that because we played badly we shouldn’t complain or be annoyed if the ref makes a mistake against us. I feel there are far too many refs not up to the required standard.

Yes but if you are going to focus on refs making mistakes why didn't you mention the earlier incident when Nelson dived to win the free kick which led to our first goal ....?


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Post #480039  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:24 am 
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Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well.

Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough.
Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal!

All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on.

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Post #480040  Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:10 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Per's comments after the match were clearly directed at senior players. Most definitely at Holding, Elneny, Debuchy, Welbeck and definitely Walcott. I am sure he has counted himself in as well.

Holding, Elneny, Debuchy & Welbeck are just not good enough.
Walcott is a waste of space. Definitely not giving his all, and shies away from tackles. Get out of Arsenal!

All the blame goes to Wenger for failing to shift ineffective players, and giving them fat contracts. The sunk cost for buying expensive players is saved by Wenger. But, the variable and recurring cost for fat salaries from ineffective/disinterested players, is caused by Wenger too. A terribly failed gamble by someone who used to have better foresight. And with hindsight, he still gambles on.


http://www.redlondon.net/arsenal-star-s ... rest-game/

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