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Post #479961  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:36 am 
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Heartbreaking scenes at Grenfell Tower. Apart from the loss of life 2000 people have lost absolutely everything. All the little bits and pieces. Old photos of life and love. Family stuff left by departed relatives. Much loved pets. Absolutely everything.

I once had a house we were renting torched by the landlord for insurance. The whole downstairs was incinerated and everything upstairs was badly smoke damaged. We didn't lose anything important but it was devastating at the time, especially as we had a baby. But we were lucky - we lost nothing that mattered and weren't hurt at all. I can't begin to imagine what these poor souls are going through right now.

What is really sickening is that this could have been prevented. the resident committee are fairly well known and have been campaigning for years warning that just this sort of thing could happen whilst being ignored by the council and the (so-called) residents group. Add the gross reduction in fire services and already you have a disaster waiting to happen before the further legal neglect from this government. Tory MPs have filibustered both the fire safety bill (more red tape according to the Mail) and the bill to ensure landlords make homes fit for habitation, and also they delayed the review into fire safety in tower blocks against Fire Service advise. Truly sickened.

If you can do anything please do. There is/will be a donation line no doubt but if you can get to any of the places below to directly donate please do - these people are in their nightwear and have nothing so even a few bits of clothing would be wonderful.


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Post #479962  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 am 
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Exiled wrote:
Heartbreaking scenes at Grenfell Tower. Apart from the loss of life 2000 people have lost absolutely everything. All the little bits and pieces. Old photos of life and love. Family stuff left by departed relatives. Much loved pets. Absolutely everything.

I once had a house we were renting torched by the landlord for insurance. The whole downstairs was incinerated and everything upstairs was badly smoke damaged. We didn't lose anything important but it was devastating at the time, especially as we had a baby. But we were lucky - we lost nothing that mattered and weren't hurt at all. I can't begin to imagine what these poor souls are going through right now.

What is really sickening is that this could have been prevented. the resident committee are fairly well known and have been campaigning for years warning that just this sort of thing could happen whilst being ignored by the council and the (so-called) residents group. Add the gross reduction in fire services and already you have a disaster waiting to happen before the further legal neglect from this government. Tory MPs have filibustered both the fire safety bill (more red tape according to the Mail) and the bill to ensure landlords make homes fit for habitation, and also they delayed the review into fire safety in tower blocks against Fire Service advise. Truly sickened.

If you can do anything please do. There is/will be a donation line no doubt but if you can get to any of the places below to directly donate please do - these people are in their nightwear and have nothing so even a few bits of clothing would be wonderful.


It is horrfic, Ex. Like something from the Towering Inferno.

In this day and age, with the advances they've made in fire resistant materials etc you would not think it possible, but the building appeared to go up in flames like a paper bag.

Terrible, terrible scenes.


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Post #479963  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:59 am 
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So Leicester at home, Stoke away and Liverpool away before the transfer window closes. You know the date when Wenger gets the panic buys, because he is still arguing over fees and probably when he sells Alexis to a competitor. So does anyone think we will have 9 points on 31 August.

If I was negotiating at Chelsea or Man City for Alexis I would tell us it is a 60 mil offer that drops by a million every second day from the day of the offer.

As for the offer for Mbappe it is just clearly a smokescreen to tell the fans they tried. Mbappe wants CL football. We should have also offered 150mil for Messi because there is just as much chance of landing him.

I didn't make the promise of top top players- I could almost write the script now of the excuses. Come to think of it there are some script writers on here, so perhaps they can help with the creative excuses. I do not trust Wenger one little bit in case you were wondering. Yeah I am a negative prick I know but I have just been burnt many times with the pitiful excuses they put forward.

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Post #479964  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:31 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
As for the offer for Mbappe it is just clearly a smokescreen to tell the fans they tried.

A more likely explanation for us bidding 100m is that we're trying to sign the player. It's a longshot of course, but what's the alternative? We can't criticise the club for showing no ambition and then say they shouldn't even bother trying for top players. Settling for lesser players that we have a better chance of signing would be exactly the kind of thing Wenger's been derided for in the past.


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Post #479965  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:37 am 
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scum fans react to the fixture list:

http://www.tottenhamblog.com/2017/06/14 ... -and-more/


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Post #479966  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
...Yeah I am a negative prick I know...
Gaz you really are. And it is so boring when you go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on with the stirring of the same old stew. Liven yourself up, will you?

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Post #479967  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:35 pm 
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:53big-emoticons:


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Post #479968  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:37 pm 
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I saw our schedule but we don't know the Europa league early rounds yet, right? Will take a look at their website to see how its done.


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Post #479969  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:40 pm 
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The tories literally have blood on their hands over the last few weeks.

My heart goes out to those lost

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Post #479970  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:21 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
The tories literally have blood on their hands over the last few weeks.

My heart goes out to those lost


Thankfully there are people with more brains than you. Corbyn bit his lips and didn't attack the Tories or blame them. There will be an investigation then you can criticise whoever is at fault. Till then stfu you *%^@.


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Post #479971  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:27 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
The tories literally have blood on their hands over the last few weeks.

My heart goes out to those lost


Thankfully there are people with more brains than you. Corbyn bit his lips and didn't attack the Tories or blame them. There will be an investigation then you can criticise whoever is at fault. Till then stfu you *%^@.


All in the name of austerity. Disgraceful

https://youtu.be/UN3e-aYUusc

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Post #479972  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:48 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

Thankfully there are people with more brains than you. Corbyn bit his lips and didn't attack the Tories or blame them. There will be an investigation then you can criticise whoever is at fault. Till then stfu you *%^@.


All in the name of austerity. Disgraceful

https://youtu.be/UN3e-aYUusc


How old are you? This had nothing to do with cuts. Two years ago 12million was spent on upgrading the property. It's possible the plastic cladding wasn't fireproof it's possible the contractors removed some protection. The investigation will find what the problem was and hopefully someone will be charged then with Corporate manslaughter. Whoever was at fault they will pay and pay heavily.


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Post #479973  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:56 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

All in the name of austerity. Disgraceful

https://youtu.be/UN3e-aYUusc


How old are you? This had nothing to do with cuts. Two years ago 12million was spent on upgrading the property. It's possible the plastic cladding wasn't fireproof it's possible the contractors removed some protection. The investigation will find what the problem was and hopefully someone will be charged then with Corporate manslaughter. Whoever was at fault they will pay and pay heavily.


As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.

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Post #479974  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:34 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

How old are you? This had nothing to do with cuts. Two years ago 12million was spent on upgrading the property. It's possible the plastic cladding wasn't fireproof it's possible the contractors removed some protection. The investigation will find what the problem was and hopefully someone will be charged then with Corporate manslaughter. Whoever was at fault they will pay and pay heavily.


As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.


Dumb and dumber. The response to the Bridge incidents and the response to this fire were all excellent. Blame the Tories for a lot of things but in these incidences you're just spitting in the wind.


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Post #479975  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:18 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.


Dumb and dumber. The response to the Bridge incidents and the response to this fire were all excellent. Blame the Tories for a lot of things but in these incidences you're just spitting in the wind.


Thanks for sharing your ridiculous feelings. The Internet cares what you think...

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Post #479976  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Theo earns 140k a week.

Surely it pretty much starts and ends there

Earns?

Indeed .... you can't blame the player , they just let their agent haggle with the powers that be to feather both their nests but in terms of what Theo puts out and gets ; compared to your Joe Average worker it's sickening .
Walcott seems to happily chirp on social media about wake up calls etc
...to my way of thinking he'd earn more respect by saying "this week because I was a complete passenger in the game I'm going to donate 20,000 of my wages to the blind foundation " or similar .

Not putting myself up for canonization here but about twenty years ago I was making some large farm gates and making a complete ****&^%$ of the job . Out of square , hinges on the wrong side if it could be cocked up I did it .

Took four days to finally get the suckers right .

Such was my embarrassment at my output I said to the bloke concerned pay me for two days


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Post #479977  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Anyone notice Mbappe wears the No.12 for France - just like Henry


No .... but I wish I had

:laughing7: You should get out more Rich , go to night classes make yourself a bookcase .


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Post #479978  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:39 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Earns?

Indeed .... you can't blame the player , they just let their agent haggle with the powers that be to feather both their nests but in terms of what Theo puts out and gets ; compared to your Joe Average worker it's sickening .
Walcott seems to happily chirp on social media about wake up calls etc ... he'd earn more respect by saying "this week because I was a complete passenger in the game I'm going to donate 20,000 of my wages to the blind foundation " or similar .

Not putting myself up for canonisation here but about twenty years ago I was making some large farm gates and making a complete ****&^%$ of the job . Out of square , hinges on the wrong side if it could be cocked up I did it .

Took four days to finally get the suckers right .

Such was my embarrassment at my output I said to the bloke concerned pay me for two days

Jesse Lingard is on 100k per week. Theo must feel undervalued.

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Post #479979  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:21 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
...Yeah I am a negative prick I know...
Gaz you really are. And it is so boring when you go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on with the stirring of the same old stew. Liven yourself up, will you?

But if people don't protest then Wenger runs the line that everyone is happy. Hence his talking about a few unhappy supporters when that was clearly not true.

Speak up or you allow the situation to get worse.

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Post #479980  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz you really are. And it is so boring when you go on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on, and on, and on with the stirring of the same old stew. Liven yourself up, will you?

But if people don't protest then Wenger runs the line that everyone is happy. Hence his talking about a few unhappy supporters when that was clearly not true.
Speak up or you allow the situation to get worse.
By all means speak up Gaz, but how about a bit of variety in the message? There's not much on TV these days, and the old people's day centre is closed, and my hip is playing me up so I can't get down to bingo. I come on here for a bit of entertainment and the best you can do is whinge on and on and on and and on and on and on about the same subject. Fair play though, you haven't told anybody to kill themselves.

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Post #479981  Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:43 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
Rich wrote:
Anyone notice Mbappe wears the No.12 for France - just like Henry


No .... but I wish I had

:laughing7: You should get out more Rich , go to night classes make yourself a bookcase .
Yes, that sounds much more fun than wine, women or song.

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Post #479982  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:41 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

How old are you? This had nothing to do with cuts. Two years ago 12million was spent on upgrading the property. It's possible the plastic cladding wasn't fireproof it's possible the contractors removed some protection. The investigation will find what the problem was and hopefully someone will be charged then with Corporate manslaughter. Whoever was at fault they will pay and pay heavily.


As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.


While we can't pretend to have any certainty about this tragedy and its causes (apart from the thought that tower blocks of that size as appropriate living conditions in the 21st century in a nation as rich as the UK is insane, given the thousands that die every year in similar properties globaly purely as a result of the nature of those properties), even taking into the prior concerns into consideration, the fillibustering of the fire and safety bill by a group of private landlords on the blue side of the house was one of a number of truly disgusting similar acts by the current conservative administration. They really do make you pine for the days for John Major and his cabinet, when there was still a conscience within the party and fillibustering for private gain wasn't a seasonal event.

If the majority of the population of this country were furnished with the facts about this particular conservative administration and its record on a whole range of things over the last few years, a significant number of the MPs in question would be dragged from their offices by the multitude.

I find it astonishing. Given the slog it takes to get there, one can only assume that most politicians enter politics with the desire to improve things from whatever standpoint they come from, but the utter moral bankruptcy of a large number of current Tory mp's sometimes makes me want to vomit. There are some good ones on the blue side of the house, but of late they have been shouted down by the really nasty bastards that seem to be breeding over there. Its amazing how many of them are also awful orators, terrible improvisers and in a few cases, are thick as the proverbial short planks.

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Post #479983  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:49 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
The response to the Bridge incidents and the response to this fire were all excellent. Blame the Tories for a lot of things but in these incidences you're just spitting in the wind.


The responses from the emergency services were truly excellent. But in each case they were having to do so against a back drop of massively reduced resources.

I know everything costs money, but I reckon most people were told for an extra penny in the pound tax they could have fully resourced police, fire and ambulance services, they'd be prepared to pay it.

Its like the way we are told we need to keep updating a nuclear deterrent that is irrelevant (because the only people who would ever push us to the point where a nuclear deterrent is an option either are semi-apocalyptic death cultists for whom it is no deterrent or people like Russia, China or the USA who could wipe us off the planet with fairly little effort - everyone else is either too close to want to use them or too poor to be a threat), but can't give our ground troops adequate kit.

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Post #479984  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:38 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
But if people don't protest then Wenger runs the line that everyone is happy. Hence his talking about a few unhappy supporters when that was clearly not true.
Speak up or you allow the situation to get worse.
By all means speak up Gaz, but how about a bit of variety in the message? There's not much on TV these days, and the old people's day centre is closed, and my hip is playing me up so I can't get down to bingo. I come on here for a bit of entertainment and the best you can do is whinge on and on and on and and on and on and on about the same subject. Fair play though, you haven't told anybody to kill themselves.

Might I suggest listening to podcasts - start with my Dad wrote a Porno. Absolutely brilliant.

Also would you like to give us an update on the cricket.

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Post #479985  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:56 am 
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lomekian wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

As exiled pointed out earlier the tories filibustered the new fire and safety bill. Seriously, if you're life is this empty that you have to protect the wrong doers and evil within our world then please do society a favour and kill yourself.

I hope those responsible for this tragic loss of life get wiped out and removed from planet earth because their existence is pointless.


While we can't pretend to have any certainty about this tragedy and its causes (apart from the thought that tower blocks of that size as appropriate living conditions in the 21st century in a nation as rich as the UK is insane, given the thousands that die every year in similar properties globaly purely as a result of the nature of those properties), even taking into the prior concerns into consideration, the fillibustering of the fire and safety bill by a group of private landlords on the blue side of the house was one of a number of truly disgusting similar acts by the current conservative administration. They really do make you pine for the days for John Major and his cabinet, when there was still a conscience within the party and fillibustering for private gain wasn't a seasonal event.

If the majority of the population of this country were furnished with the facts about this particular conservative administration and its record on a whole range of things over the last few years, a significant number of the MPs in question would be dragged from their offices by the multitude.

I find it astonishing. Given the slog it takes to get there, one can only assume that most politicians enter politics with the desire to improve things from whatever standpoint they come from, but the utter moral bankruptcy of a large number of current Tory mp's sometimes makes me want to vomit. There are some good ones on the blue side of the house, but of late they have been shouted down by the really nasty bastards that seem to be breeding over there. Its amazing how many of them are also awful orators, terrible improvisers and in a few cases, are thick as the proverbial short planks.


So true Lom, look at Phillip Davies as an example and his voting record


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Post #479986  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:11 am 
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Granit <3 Alexis = Broken Dreams


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Post #479987  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:00 am 
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I find it extraordinary in this day and age that sprinkler systems in tower blocks, schools etc are not mandatory.


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Post #479988  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:11 am 
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Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms

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Post #479989  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:55 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
By all means speak up Gaz, but how about a bit of variety in the message? There's not much on TV these days, and the old people's day centre is closed, and my hip is playing me up so I can't get down to bingo. I come on here for a bit of entertainment and the best you can do is whinge on and on and on and and on and on and on about the same subject. Fair play though, you haven't told anybody to kill themselves.

Might I suggest listening to podcasts - start with my Dad wrote a Porno. Absolutely brilliant.

Also would you like to give us an update on the cricket.
Wrote a porno? I'm still starring in them when the hip allows.

Cricket - well done Pakistan, but hope Bangla win it. England had a good run, but I blame Wenger for not getting the title. Why not?

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Post #479990  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms


If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.


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Post #479991  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:46 am 
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socrates wrote:
I find it extraordinary in this day and age that sprinkler systems in tower blocks, schools etc are not mandatory.

Thin end of the wedge, Soc. You start with things like fire regulations and bans on assault rifles and paedophilia, and the next thing you know you have a full blown Nanny State.

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Post #479992  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:52 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms

What a cockroach.

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Post #479993  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:10 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms


If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.


Whilst there are 10s of 1000s of people living in similar accomodation it is always the time to look at where the blame lies, if for no other reason than to try to prevent others dying in such a hideous way. The trouble with waiting for 'the right time' then frankly there is never a right time, nothing gets done, and more people die.

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Post #479994  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:49 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I find it extraordinary in this day and age that sprinkler systems in tower blocks, schools etc are not mandatory.

Unfortunately they are but only in new buildings of over 30m in height.

I work in the industry and visit plenty of buildings/estates built in the 60's/70's where the fire safety and means of escape for residents of the building is at best unclear and at worst life-threatening.

Similar fires can happen in new buildings, as one did in Dubai a few years back, but the occupants in new buildings are rarely put at risk when the envelope of the building, or a single unit catches fire as there are simple methods to contain the fire and very strict legislation on escaping from a fire. Unfortunately this doesn't extend to existing buildings that pre-date recent legislation.

The enquiry will be interesting because there is a lot of possibly inaccurate speculation about what contributed to the fire spreading so quickly. The one thing I'm pretty certain of is that there would have been zero loss of life if the same fire happened in a new building.


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Post #479995  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:56 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Make excuses for *%^@ like this and you are a wanker who betrayed your mother, sister and daughters.

Cheers


https://youtu.be/sjqro8jFRms


If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.
Bubblechris you are fully entitled to make your very reasonable contribution on this terrible fire without having to accept the abusive comments being directed at you on this forum. I am quite sure Steve Gleiber would have been very quick to jump on it.

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Post #479996  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:03 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
Whilst there are 10s of 1000s of people living in similar accomodation it is always the time to look at where the blame lies, if for no other reason than to try to prevent others dying in such a hideous way. The trouble with waiting for 'the right time' then frankly there is never a right time, nothing gets done, and more people die.
Yes, you are right, the investigation must get underway as soon as it can. Experience of other disastrous incidents suggests it always takes far too long to reach conclusions that help for the future and also give bereaved families and communities the justice they deserve.

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Post #479997  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Exiled wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.


Whilst there are 10s of 1000s of people living in similar accomodation it is always the time to look at where the blame lies, if for no other reason than to try to prevent others dying in such a hideous way. The trouble with waiting for 'the right time' then frankly there is never a right time, nothing gets done, and more people die.


Exactly !

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Post #479998  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:06 pm 
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One of the things that is very strange is that they connected the building to the gas main and ran pipes all the way up the side of the building. I can't think of any block of flats I've lived in that were connected to gas in fact I recall wanting gas but realised later that this could be a problem.

A fire brigade spokesman said that there was a fractured main in the building and it slowed down there getting the fire under control.

The Prime Minister has promised an immediate enquiry. Let's hope it will be thorough.


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Post #479999  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Oh the sweet irony. A republican congressman says he wants answers about how the gunman got a weapon and his background to see if it could have been prevented and he was a signature to legislation that weakened background checks on gun purchases.


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Post #480000  Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:10 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

If your cowardly attack is made at me then you are even more stupid than I thought. My initial comment was not in support of the Tories but support for Jeremy Corbyn who realised this was the time to support the bereaved and not attack anyone or everyone that could have been responsible. They are still looking for tens of victims who deserve some respect. When that has been done then is the time to start throwing blame around not now.
Bubblechris you are fully entitled to make your very reasonable contribution on this terrible fire without having to accept the abusive comments being directed at you on this forum. I am quite sure Steve Gleiber would have been very quick to jump on it.


Oh do give over ! Also he started it by telling me to "stfu you *%^@" if I recall

I'm sure if Steve was around today he'd be disappointed at the apologists for murderers on ere.

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