OMOH, thanks for your post about Joe Mercer. He was well before my time as a player, but my Dad spoke of him as highly of him as you do. Noticed you mentioned Herbie Roberts. My Dad rated him very highly too. Always thought it unfair he was remembered less well than the likes of Eddie Hapgood, Clff Bastin and Alex James.

Great stuff, omoh. I went to youtube and usually, I'm happy to see the people and teams you all talk about and i was hoping to see highlights of his playing days but this was all I could find about Mercer. At least I have a face with the name.

I have a question. His record at City over a short span of time was nothing short of amazing. I can understand not having him as manager when he left City because we had the legendary Mee. But what about in the mid 70s when there was a vacancy? Did we try to get him? If not, why do you suppose we didn't given he was a former player who had done a great job elsewhere?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxnAJR0r-E&t=145s

Yesss

We’re back to having 11 men on the pitch.

I am not so sure we don't need a player who dishes a bit of dirt for Burnley.

I wrote this about Joe a while back. "Joe Mercer “The Good”. His fame is justifiably bright in the assembly of great Arsenal men. He was one of our finest wing halves and arguably our greatest captain. There is that sempiternal image of him on the shoulders of his team mates in 1952, FA Cup in hand. There is also the legendary story of his last game for the club against Liverpool in 1954. Getting on for forty he badgered manager Tom Whittaker to be selected to play against his old Liverpool pals. He did so, but unluckily broke his leg in a shocking collision with team mate Joe Wade. Perhaps he could have asked for no better hap in his mishap than to finish at Highbury, for some say the ovation he received that day still echoed faintly when they closed the old ground more than fifty years on.

Joe came from a football family. His father was centre half for Nottingham Forest, and young Joe was greatly influenced by Billy Roberts, cousin of Arsenal legend, Herbie Roberts. At fourteen he played for the village of Elton Green in Cheshire and as a reward got his fares paid and a bag of vegetables every Friday. At seventeen he signed professional with Everton where he stayed for sixteen years. His falling out with the Blues came when he was injured playing for England against Scotland and Everton thought he was shirking. He had to have his cartilage removed at his own expense. He joined Arsenal as a thirty-two year-old in 1946, on the condition that he could live and train in Liverpool, as he wanted to look after his grocery business in Hoylake. When Tom Whittaker described the signing as one of the most important deals he or anybody ever made for Arsenal, he told no lie.

Joe Mercer was a brilliant footballer, a delightful provider of accurate passes and blessed with fantastic energy and a formidable battling spirit. His enthusiasm was a by-word and even when time began to damage him there was still a lot of the sixteen year-old in his veteran performances. Maurice Edelston wrote of him ‘Two things about Mercer were unforgettable: his smile and his legs. The smile was Joe. It was not a handsome-boy smile, or a big-star smile; there was no affectation in it; it was natural, humorous and warm. It twisted his mouth sideways in his lean face, and the creases of it almost closed his blue close-set eyes. As to his legs, he had to listen to jokes about them from the day he first joined Everton as a boy of sixteen. They were shaped like a pair of brackets, the left rather more bent than the right; he walked with a sagging, plodding motion, and they gave slightly outwards at each step, as if they were made of thick wire. Mercer captaining a team under pressure looked like a farmer, with threshing in full swing and rain in the air – striding about with activity all around him, directing, encouraging, jumping in to help or take over, always near the centre of the work. There was no doubt who was the boss.’ If it happened in football, Joe had seen it. An old crooked tree that gave fruit."

Sorry OMOH, but the picture with the FA Cup will have been 1950. 2-0 v Liverpool. Reg Lewis got both goals.

Yes, of course - 1952 was less enjoyable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDIBD2eLPr4

Watching City and Liverpool battle it out may be interesting. City have only failed to to be out of the top 3 once since 2011. Its the kind of season by season form Man Utd used to have in the 90s and first few years of the 00s.
If City do win it this season and next, the EPL will start to look like a joke corrupted by money. My other fear is our unbeaten record which is very hard to do with the league as it is, but not impossible with what City have.
Liverpool have one of their best sides since some time but when you can't win the PL with 97 points, while losing only once and your contender has all the money in the world, you can only stay competitive to challenge for the title for so long.

We may start seeing Tottenham fall off as well (a welcomed thing). They have the addition of the stadium to contend with, their biggest stars looking at possibly leaving.

It's kinda sad to say you may not be around to see it omoh. The Boston Red Sox went from 1918 to 2004 between world series. There was a documentary about it. I hate the "BoSox" but was moved by people who visited fathers and grandfathers who lived their lives seeing the team reach finals and never win. I certainly hope to see us win in my lifetime. The CL as the saying goes 'anything can happen in a cup competition'. 2004 was our gild edged chance I think. Had we just had a better 2nd half against Chelsea, the road to the final was not too difficult considering the competition. All the top teams were out of it.

Anyway, thinking about it more, the 'invincible' season was an entire season with drama each week. And I feel personally connected seeing one of the matches. Still have the program and ticket stub. It's with my trust documents, insurance forms, and other important things.

It will break my heart if City does it, especially in their present state of being economically on steroids.

I'm all in favour of a bit of nostalgia about the Francis Lee, Malcolm Allison, Rodney Marsh era Manchester City. But to suggest that there's any link at all between that club and the Frankenstein's monster that currently parades under the same name is beyond the pale. That's right, beyond the pale.

Wonder if some cartoonist will do one showing Özil coming on as a sub with a guard dog on a lead with him, saying this is carrying out security a bit far.

I deliberately ignored discussing 1952. Wally Barnes injury and all.

Seems we are on the wrong end at times on "special events". I recall (and I'm too lazy to look it up) that the first non English side to win the FA cup (Cardiff I believe) was at our expense. And we are the losing side on the first back to back FA cup winners.

First team to lose a 4-0 lead in a game against said Toon side I think weren't we? I'm open to being corrected. Can't recall if it was a league or cup match.

And didn't Shearer score a hat trick in his debut as a starter in the first team against us? I think he played for Soton at the time but still a Geordie.

What other events were on the wrong side of?

My take on Barnes.
"One of Arsenal’s finest full backs, who in 1943 did not cost a penny signing-on fee. He was known for his anticipation and interceptions, his unflappability and physical power. In his pomp he was as strong and dynamic as any defender might wish to be. He made the game seem as easy as cakes and cream, and even when his knees turned medieval, he drew on his deep knowledge of positioning to retain his high reputation. According to my dad he ‘used his noddle.’ Walley’s parents were born not far from Arsenal Stadium, but because his soldier father was stationed in Brecon on the day of his birth, Walley had a different nationality than the rest of his family. He had the “e” in his Christian name due to a mistake on his birth certificate. Aged four he and rest of his family left Brecon to join his father’s regimental posting in Lebong India. Returning to England in 1928 he didn’t actually go back to Wales until he was twenty-four, and that was to play for Wales against England. Yet he became a renowned captain of his country. Walley only ever saw one top level football match before turning professional himself - Portsmouth v Arsenal in the Fifth Round of the FA Cup - and ironically he was to play for both clubs. Walley was a footballer who glittered when he walked out to play."

Quite right, Mcqilkie. One needs to put the past in perspective. It is absurd to overlook City's present plastic horribleness because of grudges against the likes of Liverpool ... who were frankly legitimately good unlike fake City.

What matters is the present... as stated rather well by this often nauseating but also often very funny fellow ...https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2212162822229340

Good on you for being a person who does not hold a grudge and wants to live in the present, but I will hold my grudges and dislikes until it’s all over. F@@k Liverpool, Utd, Spurs and I wish them an unsuccessful season.

I’m with you on this Gaz, although I’d add Chelsea to your list of Manchester United, Tottenham and Liverpool. If City’s new found wealth stops those four teams winning the league, for me that’s a benefit that comes from it because I don’t see Arsenal under Kroenke stopping them. I’m really not going to get stuffy about how City acquired it and whether it’s fair. If it stops those four from winning stuff, good!