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Post #479601  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:10 pm 
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John wrote:
Wenger to make a knob of himself in 5....4....3....

2.....1. Boom.


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Post #479602  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Özil has been brilliant today.


He's been brilliant for most of the last month and a half.

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Post #479603  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:11 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Admittedly it was a makeshift defence but our defending is just shocking, we are so amateurish in our organisation and decision-making.

Yeah, I have more sympathy for our defense today as they've never really played together. Chambers is just not good enough, but I still think Holding can become good. We're desperate for a leader at the back.

Really hoping Maitland-Niles get a couple of games in central midfield this season. He's a real gem.


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Post #479604  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:11 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
That's the thing I know I will struggle with.

When wenger does finally leave the furore will be spectacular with sky, BBC and all news outlets claiming he was a visionary who changed football, built Arsenal football club, created the emirates blah blah blah, ex players praising him, maybe even a huge send off after a game with a huge public display of gratitude

It won't reflect the true nature of his tenureship, the damage he caused Arsenal, the bollocks he said, the nonsense about how he sacrificed his life for Arsenal, his bollocks about morality (from a man who cheated on his wife) etc etc etc

Listening to the acclaim will be one bitter pill


The taste of the pill will be determined by your own level of grace.


I don't care about the pill - him leaving will remove any bitterness the insufferable prick.


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Post #479605  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:12 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I think there's more chance of me shagging Kylie Minogue than of Čech saving a pen.


Spunked all his penalty luck winning Chavski the Champions League in the year they were rubbish

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Post #479606  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:12 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Özil has been brilliant today.


He's been brilliant for most of the last month and a half.

Yup...


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Post #479607  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:15 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I think there's more chance of me shagging Kylie Minogue than of Čech saving a pen.


You should be so lucky



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Post #479608  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Daz wrote:
lomekian wrote:

The taste of the pill will be determined by your own level of grace.


I don't care about the pill - him leaving will remove any bitterness the insufferable prick.


I don't feel as strongly as you, but I share the overall feeling. His departure will be relief tinged with sadness...the sadness being that someone who was so brilliant, and still has some great managerial qualities, allowed time to pass him by through stubbornness, where a little more flexibility, delegation and expenditure augmented with his own positive qualities might have seen us win much more than we have.

But anyone angry that he gets a big pat on the back when he goes is just being a prick themselves. He may have served himself as much, but he has certainly served this club, just not always as effectively as it once appeared.

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Post #479609  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Can't argue with anything Carragher has said.

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Post #479610  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:19 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Daz wrote:

I don't care about the pill - him leaving will remove any bitterness the insufferable prick.


I don't feel as strongly as you, but I share the overall feeling. His departure will be relief tinged with sadness...the sadness being that someone who was so brilliant, and still has some great managerial qualities, allowed time to pass him by through stubbornness, where a little more flexibility, delegation and expenditure augmented with his own positive qualities might have seen us win much more than we have.

But anyone angry that he gets a big pat on the back when he goes is just being a prick themselves. He may have served himself as much, but he has certainly served this club, just not always as effectively as it once appeared.


I would have definitely agreed with you until the end of last season. Not now. I think he is an utter embarrassment and has forfeited the right for a dignified departure that was totally open to him after the FA cup final. I feel nothing but contempt for him.


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Post #479611  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Niall wrote:
Here's a question.

Why doesn't Wenger buy a decent central defensive midfielder and a couple of kick-ass centre-halfs?

I like these easy ones ..... a hard arse ...think Roy Keane , Alan Ball , Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Dennis Wise will have strong opinions and likely to express them .

...... that isn't the Wenger way .... harps playing gently , water feature noises ...... no angry home truths in our dressing room


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Post #479612  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm 
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As for tonight...an absorbing game, alternating between fantastic quality and dross. Taylor managed to get the big calls right and a lot of little ones wrong, which on balance probably just favoured us. Neither team is that good. Chelsea's midfield looks worse than ours, despite 3 of them being there, and our makeshift back line was poor even by our own standards.

Morata on form would have won the game comfortably for Chelsea. But equally without Courtois we would have won comfortably. A draw a far result between two flawed teams...

Haven't read Wenger's post match comments, but dreading them. Re refs, he's in danger of going all D-Fens, and that's coming from me.

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Post #479613  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Haven't read Wenger's post match comments, but dreading them. Re refs, he's in danger of going all D-Fens, and that's coming from me.


You're right to do so. You could perhaps say that it was harsh but it wasn't farcical. All the pundits concurred that it was a penalty, correctly in my opinion as Bellerin clearly kicks Hazard's foot instead of the ball. What annoys me so much about Wenger is that he tries to portray it as ludicrous and beyond belief just as he did with the Lacazette offside. It was marginal and had Bellerin got away with it I would have thought "bit lucky there but fair play". Wenger insisting it is a travesty of justice reveals how pathetic he has become.


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Post #479614  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Daz wrote:
lomekian wrote:

I don't feel as strongly as you, but I share the overall feeling. His departure will be relief tinged with sadness...the sadness being that someone who was so brilliant, and still has some great managerial qualities, allowed time to pass him by through stubbornness, where a little more flexibility, delegation and expenditure augmented with his own positive qualities might have seen us win much more than we have.

But anyone angry that he gets a big pat on the back when he goes is just being a prick themselves. He may have served himself as much, but he has certainly served this club, just not always as effectively as it once appeared.


I would have definitely agreed with you until the end of last season. Not now. I think he is an utter embarrassment and has forfeited the right for a dignified departure that was totally open to him after the FA cup final. I feel nothing but contempt for him.


Do you honestly think the club were remotely prepped for him to leave? His self-indulgence was disappointing, but had he actually left last summer we would have had such a power vacuum, where we would have just created another Wenger power figure. Now we have specialists in sports science, scouting, negotiations and a Director of Football in waiting, and by the end of the season we are in, a structure will be in place that will make the manager expendable.

We needed him to stay as a club, even though the team suffered. Now we need him to either pull out a late season miraculous change or leave in the summer. The latter is rather more likely than the former. A one year contract would have been more honest, but that would have left him a lame duck.

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Post #479615  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:32 pm 
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So, does anyone subscribe to Wenger's view that the penalty was soft? He commented that there would be 10 penalties a game if all those types are given. I think it's the use of the word "farcical" that did sound a little embarrassing - but then Wenger has always liked a whinge and he's nicer about it than that arse Mourinho.

It's definitely a soft penalty.

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Post #479616  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:33 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
That's the thing I know I will struggle with.

When wenger does finally leave the furore will be spectacular with sky, BBC and all news outlets claiming he was a visionary who changed football, built Arsenal football club, created the emirates blah blah blah, ex players praising him, maybe even a huge send off after a game with a huge public display of gratitude

It won't reflect the true nature of his tenureship, the damage he caused Arsenal, the bollocks he said, the nonsense about how he sacrificed his life for Arsenal, his bollocks about morality (from a man who cheated on his wife) etc etc etc

Listening to the acclaim will be one bitter pill


The taste of the pill will be determined by your own level of grace.


Nah the guy is a complete fukpuffin of the highest order and it doesn't make me graceless in saying I prefer him booted out rather than carried out by unicorns in a chorus of adulation that will occur


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Post #479617  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Niall wrote:
So, does anyone subscribe to Wenger's view that the penalty was soft? He commented that there would be 10 penalties a game if all those types are given. I think it's the use of the word "farcical" that did sound a little embarrassing - but then Wenger has always liked a whinge and he's nicer about it than that arse Mourinho.

It's definitely a soft penalty.


It wasn't a penalty Hazard conned the ref but Chelsea missed some absolute sitters so I don't really feel cheated, actually I'm not sure anybody gives a *%^@ anymore :laughing7:


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Post #479618  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Niall wrote:
It's definitely a soft penalty.

I would say soft but correct. Bellerin makes no contact with the ball, and enough contact with Hazards heel to justify the decision. Ridiculous to call it farcical. The one against WBA was farcical, but not this one.


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Post #479619  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm 
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The game is alien to me these days. It seems contact now justifies a penalty kick. 5 or 6 years ago that was a dive, plain and simple. I couldn't understand the one Everton got against Liverpool a few weeks ago and this was worse. It has effectively got to the stage where you cannot touch a player in the box.

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Post #479620  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Daz wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Haven't read Wenger's post match comments, but dreading them. Re refs, he's in danger of going all D-Fens, and that's coming from me.


You're right to do so. You could perhaps say that it was harsh but it wasn't farcical. All the pundits concurred that it was a penalty, correctly in my opinion as Bellerin clearly kicks Hazard's foot instead of the ball. What annoys me so much about Wenger is that he tries to portray it as ludicrous and beyond belief just as he did with the Lacazette offside. It was marginal and had Bellerin got away with it I would have thought "bit lucky there but fair play". Wenger insisting it is a travesty of justice reveals how pathetic he has become.


What annoys me is how he always plays the persecution card (or in other words it's always someone else's fault) whilst refusing to acknowledge that the vast majority of our poor performances/results over the last decade has been a direct result of his own inability to address the alarming and very obvious deficiences in his own teams.


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Post #479621  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Went to the match tonight. Gives a totally different perspective than on tv.
Both teams very evenly matched, the clear difference being Chelsea have a well drilled back line who make the opposition play well for their chances. Our defence is a total shambles that gifts chances left right and centre.
The number of times a simple lofted ball beat our entire back 5 was frightening. It is also noticeable how arsenal simply aren’t switched on at any opposition restart in play, so many short corners, easy ‘outs’ from goal kicks. One free kick saw a man free down the left from the moment the free kick was given and no one picked him up, it lead to a dangerous cross. Just take the same players and someone to tell them what to do without the ball and we improve by 10-15 points each season.
It seems the penalty was a soft one. My gripe is more that we never seem to get away with anything in our own box, every foul is a pen, even 50/50 ones are given. At the other end we don’t seem to get the 50/50s. Even if all decisions for and against are correct you would expect the statistical anomalies of the odd lucky decision for you. I can think of the one v West Brom at Home but so many other pens given or not.
Draw was a fair result. The game pretty much summed up this current arsenal team in a nutshell.
Injuries to big players for a big game.
Dominate but fail to score
Gift guilt edged opportunities when on top
Score but throw away the lead immediately......to a penalty
Confidence drained concede again
Late rally and goal to install just enough hope going forward
And still time to nearly gift the opposition a winner!


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Post #479622  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:46 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Daz wrote:

You're right to do so. You could perhaps say that it was harsh but it wasn't farcical. All the pundits concurred that it was a penalty, correctly in my opinion as Bellerin clearly kicks Hazard's foot instead of the ball. What annoys me so much about Wenger is that he tries to portray it as ludicrous and beyond belief just as he did with the Lacazette offside. It was marginal and had Bellerin got away with it I would have thought "bit lucky there but fair play". Wenger insisting it is a travesty of justice reveals how pathetic he has become.


What annoys me is how he always plays the persecution card (or in other words it's always someone else's fault) whilst refusing to acknowledge that the vast majority of our poor performances/results over the last decade has been a direct result of his own inability to address the alarming and very obvious deficiences in his own teams.

Like all the other managers do.

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Post #479623  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Interesting - Bein sports saying both Hazard and AMN should have had pens, G Neville saying neither were....I'm more in agreement with the ref than the commentators...that must be a first...

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Post #479624  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:49 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Daz wrote:

I would have definitely agreed with you until the end of last season. Not now. I think he is an utter embarrassment and has forfeited the right for a dignified departure that was totally open to him after the FA cup final. I feel nothing but contempt for him.


Do you honestly think the club were remotely prepped for him to leave? His self-indulgence was disappointing, but had he actually left last summer we would have had such a power vacuum, where we would have just created another Wenger power figure. Now we have specialists in sports science, scouting, negotiations and a Director of Football in waiting, and by the end of the season we are in, a structure will be in place that will make the manager expendable.

We needed him to stay as a club, even though the team suffered. Now we need him to either pull out a late season miraculous change or leave in the summer. The latter is rather more likely than the former. A one year contract would have been more honest, but that would have left him a lame duck.

We are likely to finish 6th. So unless a replacement for Wenger was a total disaster, we are no better off in retaining him for another two years. Football managers come and go at other clubs all the time. We are the screaming example of a club that would benefit from a new manager while having so much else going for us.

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Post #479625  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:52 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Niall wrote:
It's definitely a soft penalty.

I would say soft but correct. Bellerin makes no contact with the ball, and enough contact with Hazards heel to justify the decision. Ridiculous to call it farcical. The one against WBA was farcical, but not this one.

Ok, but following from that... it is understandable that Wenger is feeling outraged that we have been denied four points (possibly) in a few days by farcical (WBA) and soft (Chelsea) penalty calls. Especially, as we rarely seem to get these in our favour.

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Post #479626  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Niall wrote:
socrates wrote:

What annoys me is how he always plays the persecution card (or in other words it's always someone else's fault) whilst refusing to acknowledge that the vast majority of our poor performances/results over the last decade has been a direct result of his own inability to address the alarming and very obvious deficiences in his own teams.

Like all the other managers do.


Not 100% of the time , other managers come out from time time admitting their teams weren't good enough. Mourinho, pep, sralex.

Wenger spins it 95% percent of the time


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Post #479627  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Maitland-Niles has a decent game, albeit he was beaten 1v1 for the cross for 2-1. Give him a game in his natural position.
Wilshere deserves a new contract. He wants to stay, we can’t throw away a player like that for £0, particularly with the position we’re in.

Look at the squad and we are going to need an overhaul in every position considering those who are ageing, leaving and not good enough
2 new gk needed
Perhaps 3 CB and a RB required
At least 2 in central mid
And at least 2/3 in attack


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Post #479628  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:59 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Niall wrote:
Like all the other managers do.


Not 100% of the time , other managers come out from time time admitting their teams weren't good enough. Mourinho, pep, sralex.

Wenger spins it 95% percent of the time

Wenger has criticised the team a fair few times recently.

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Post #479629  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Why didn’t Čech just stand up and stay in the middle for the penalty. Every man and his dog knows how hazard takes his pens, he is slow, calm and waits for the gk to move before placing a pen with no pace. Stand up and force him to panic, with no pace on the shot you can afford to dive late.
That said Čech did save us with a number of good saves today, a couple of 1 on 1s and a fantastic double save at the start of the second half


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Post #479630  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:16 pm 
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The next 4 in the league are must wins. We probably will win all 4 before losing to spurs and city in the next two after that

Quite simply nothing has changed this season at all. Who we won, lose draw against and even how we score and concede is all exactly the same


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Post #479631  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:23 pm 
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dec wrote:
lomekian wrote:

Do you honestly think the club were remotely prepped for him to leave? His self-indulgence was disappointing, but had he actually left last summer we would have had such a power vacuum, where we would have just created another Wenger power figure. Now we have specialists in sports science, scouting, negotiations and a Director of Football in waiting, and by the end of the season we are in, a structure will be in place that will make the manager expendable.

We needed him to stay as a club, even though the team suffered. Now we need him to either pull out a late season miraculous change or leave in the summer. The latter is rather more likely than the former. A one year contract would have been more honest, but that would have left him a lame duck.

We are likely to finish 6th. So unless a replacement for Wenger was a total disaster, we are no better off in retaining him for another two years. Football managers come and go at other clubs all the time. We are the screaming example of a club that would benefit from a new manager while having so much else going for us.


Most other football clubs have at least one person running the show who knows a damn thing about football....now we actually have the beginnings of a brain trust, I'm a lot more optimistic about any future hire.

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Post #479632  Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:53 pm 
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Conte's post match interview is great...any difficult question he says he didn't see it, pretends not to understand the question etc...straight out of the early years Wenger playbook!

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Post #479633  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:24 am 

If John Lennon had been shot by Morata, he'd probably still be alive.


  
 
 
Post #479634  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:24 am 
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I said earlier to expect such types of signing, and here it is. Very Arsenal. I guess pretty much everyone in this forum would have expected the same.

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/01/boss-c ... ws+site%29

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Post #479635  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Niall wrote:
So, does anyone subscribe to Wenger's view that the penalty was soft? He commented that there would be 10 penalties a game if all those types are given. I think it's the use of the word "farcical" that did sound a little embarrassing - but then Wenger has always liked a whinge and he's nicer about it than that arse Mourinho.

It's definitely a soft penalty.


It wasn't a penalty Hazard conned the ref but Chelsea missed some absolute sitters so I don't really feel cheated, actually I'm not sure anybody gives a *%^@ anymore :laughing7:

No it was a penalty. The ref pointed to the spot and they scored. Maybe you think it should not have been awarded but if Wenger and you have VAR in the future it will be a penalty then as well. Because I expect with VAR, once awarded there was no reason to overturn it. There was contact. You and Wenger might be on the minority on this view.

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Post #479636  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:16 am 
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I cannot let Wengers press conference pass without comment.

Farcical is a term that can be used in conjunction with Arsenal but in relation to the overall management of the team not referee decisions. If I put my key concerns.
Contracts expiring over the next 18 months of many key positions. Forget the next 6 months - look further ahead and start to worry.
Following from that of course is that Wenger will buy or promote players of his ilk. We will be stuck with more players being paid a *%^@ load of cash who will not want to move because they will never be paid that much again by even a chinese club. The USSR socialist experiment failed. it also failed at our club.
A defense that needs improvement in quality and training about their roles.
A failure to jettison the failures.
A failure to properly succession plan.
Wenger continually shifting blame away from the players. Players never taking responsibility.
Lack of strong leaders. He likes peace and tranquility and achieves it with finding and promoting placid players.

January 4 - 23 points behind the leading club in the EPL. Farcical

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Post #479637  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:19 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
I said earlier to expect such types of signing, and here it is. Very Arsenal. I guess pretty much everyone in this forum would have expected the same.

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/01/boss-c ... ws+site%29

Going to cost a lot of extra cash to get his name put on the back of a jersey.

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Post #479638  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:56 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I said earlier to expect such types of signing, and here it is. Very Arsenal. I guess pretty much everyone in this forum would have expected the same.

http://news.arseblog.com/2018/01/boss-c ... ws+site%29

Going to cost a lot of extra cash to get his name put on the back of a jersey.


There is a cheaper option, simply put "The One". Indication of Wenger's well researched value buy.

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Post #479639  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:59 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
I cannot let Wengers press conference pass without comment.

Farcical is a term that can be used in conjunction with Arsenal but in relation to the overall management of the team not referee decisions. If I put my key concerns.
Contracts expiring over the next 18 months of many key positions. Forget the next 6 months - look further ahead and start to worry.
Following from that of course is that Wenger will buy or promote players of his ilk. We will be stuck with more players being paid a *%^@ load of cash who will not want to move because they will never be paid that much again by even a chinese club. The USSR socialist experiment failed. it also failed at our club.
A defense that needs improvement in quality and training about their roles.
A failure to jettison the failures.
A failure to properly succession plan.
Wenger continually shifting blame away from the players. Players never taking responsibility.
Lack of strong leaders. He likes peace and tranquility and achieves it with finding and promoting placid players.

January 4 - 23 points behind the leading club in the EPL. Farcical


23 points ????
Did you miss a punctuation mark somewhere? Did you mean be 2 - 3 points, because it is only January :icon_mrgreen:

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Post #479640  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:31 pm
Posts: 4213
Location: Turnford, Broxbourne, Herts

The penalty or non penalty imo.

Would it have been given against Spurs or Man City. No chance in hell.

Considering the way he allowed the game to flow, credit to him, he would not have given a free kick if it had happened outside the area. No way.

It was not a penalty as Hazard was not in control of the ball.


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