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Post #480921  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:38 am 
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HoddGooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
Per will be a good addition to the youth team staff.

On what basis do you make this conclusion?


It entirely depends on the specifics of his role I'd assume? He clearly would be learning on the job, so you'd want him bedded in slowly and with as much quality support as possible. Naturally it would be better if this wasn't his first non-playing role, but in terms of character and the way his own career developed, the long term potential is there. Would I have been more comfortable if he'd been brought in alongside someone more experienced! Yes...hopefully this is where the chap from Reading comes in?

Has Luke Hobbs been a popular & successful interim?

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Post #480922  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:19 am 
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lomekian wrote:
It entirely depends on the specifics of his role I'd assume? He clearly would be learning on the job, so you'd want him bedded in slowly and with as much quality support as possible. Naturally it would be better if this wasn't his first non-playing role, but in terms of character and the way his own career developed, the long term potential is there. Would I have been more comfortable if he'd been brought in alongside someone more experienced! Yes...hopefully this is where the chap from Reading comes in?
Unless Per is completely useless with people, which doesn't seem thee case, then surely any young player would benefit from the knowledge of a man with his experience? He may be slow on his tootsies these days but he has forgotten more about defending than most Premiership players ever knew. The more Germans in our set-up the better. They know the business.

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Post #480923  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:54 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Still - a member of the 100 club despite playing no more than 25 games up front is not to be sniffed at. He leaves us with a sense of frustrated, appreciative minor disappointment.

Building on this, and mainly just to rile upp the anti Walcott crowd a bit, here are his league numbers leading up to what should’ve been his prime years (goals and assists only, as that’s pretty much all he’s been about as a footballer):

10/11 - 21 years old: 28 matches, 9 goals, 7 assists
11/12 - 22 years old: 35 matches, 8 goals, 8 assists
12/13 - 23 years old: 32 matches, 14 goals, 10 assists

Say what you want about his limitations as a player, those are excellent numbers for a young wide forward. Sadly, the following two seasons were ruined by injuries (he had two straight seasons where he didn’t reach 15 league appearances) and he never really got back to his best. 13/14 was the season we signed Özil as well, whose game is perfect for players like Walcott.

As I said, time for him to go, but he was never as bad as some claimed.


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Post #480924  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:

but he was never as bad as some claimed.


Ah Haz, I’m afraid he was. He really really was.


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Post #480925  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
lomekian wrote:
Still - a member of the 100 club despite playing no more than 25 games up front is not to be sniffed at. He leaves us with a sense of frustrated, appreciative minor disappointment.

Building on this, and mainly just to rile upp the anti Walcott crowd a bit, here are his league numbers leading up to what should’ve been his prime years (goals and assists only, as that’s pretty much all he’s been about as a footballer):

10/11 - 21 years old: 28 matches, 9 goals, 7 assists
11/12 - 22 years old: 35 matches, 8 goals, 8 assists
12/13 - 23 years old: 32 matches, 14 goals, 10 assists

Say what you want about his limitations as a player, those are excellent numbers for a young wide forward. Sadly, the following two seasons were ruined by injuries (he had two straight seasons where he didn’t reach 15 league appearances) and he never really got back to his best. 13/14 was the season we signed Özil as well, whose game is perfect for players like Walcott.

As I said, time for him to go, but he was never as bad as some claimed.

His goal scoring stats are very impressive. His general play was very weak though. There were games where he got lots of the ball and frightened the opposition with his pace, but they were far too infrequent.

Also, while it has become the norm to ridicule Wenger and label him as useless in every aspect of the game, I think he probably got as much out of Walcott as could be expected, given the injuries. Walcott has no natural ability to beat a player. He has very limited ability to see a through pass. His pace is exceptional and he developed into a quite good finisher. His first touch improved over the years with us. I'm not sure what more he could have added to his game apart from maybe more defensive awareness but that is hardly a high priority for a forward.

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Post #480926  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:37 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Ah Haz, I’m afraid he was. He really really was.

But at some point, doesn’t the numbers speak for themselves? I will never dispute the criticism leveled at Walcott for his work rate or defensive play, but at the same time I don’t see why it matters so much. Nobody is talking about how Sanchez is playing defensively. Or Hazard, or De Bruyne, or Salah. What you expect from them is to create chances and score goals, and a wide forward who scores 10-15 goals per year while contributing 5-10 assists as well (which for a while looked like numbers Walcott was capable of) has done his job as far as I’m concerned.


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Post #480927  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:06 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
DHD wrote:
Ah Haz, I’m afraid he was. He really really was.

But at some point, doesn’t the numbers speak for themselves? I will never dispute the criticism leveled at Walcott for his work rate or defensive play, but at the same time I don’t see why it matters so much. Nobody is talking about how Sanchez is playing defensively. Or Hazard, or De Bruyne, or Salah. What you expect from them is to create chances and score goals, and a wide forward who scores 10-15 goals per year while contributing 5-10 assists as well (which for a while looked like numbers Walcott was capable of) has done his job as far as I’m concerned.


I think he's a case of delivering way less than he promised. I also think that you could see the player he could have been when he played on INSTINCT, but when he had to stop and think it all fell apart. Not sure what a coach can do about that.

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Post #480928  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:19 pm 
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john1 wrote:
I think he's a case of delivering way less than he promised. I also think that you could see the player he could have been when he played on INSTINCT, but when he had to stop and think it all fell apart. Not sure what a coach can do about that.

Yeah, that I agree with. It's clear now that he was never going to be the player he was hyped up to be, because the hype wasn't based on a fair assessment of his talents. Think a lot of young players struggle with this, especially players from big football nations who are desperate for the next big thing.


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Post #480929  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:24 pm 
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HoddGooner wrote:
Rich wrote:
Per will be a good addition to the youth team staff.

On what basis do you make this conclusion?

Well I don't know anything about his coaching capabilities so the only way I can form a good/bad opinion is that he seems well respected by everyone at the club, he seems to 'get' what it means to play for Arsenal, that he is young enough and close enough to the game to be able to realise the way the modern player has to play and that we've let far too many potential former players slip through our fingers.

Obviously it is all just an opinion based on what little I know, but that's all I have to go on. For example I can imagine Per being a better coach than a Pires for example. Some players seem a better natural fit for a coaching role.


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Post #480930  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Theo Walcott passes Everton medical and agrees personal terms ahead of move from Arsenal

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11210090/theo-walcott-passes-everton-medical-and-agrees-personal-terms-ahead-of-move-from-arsenal


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Post #480931  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:54 pm 
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socrates wrote:
It all seems like a typical transfer window for us........vague links with players (not substantiated by the selling clubs) but nothing really that concrete. The usual murmers of lowball bids with little chance of success.

It's as if we are waiting for some wonderful opportunity to just magically transpire.

I used to get excited by the thought of players coming in. Now I couldn't care less who comes and goes player wise. It makes no odds anyway with that old goat as manager.

Wenger really is becoming a thoroughly unlikeable man.


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Post #480932  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:36 pm 
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All I'd say on Theo is that i feel he hasn't deserved the criticism levelled at him but was something of a dysfunctional player. He may be a candidate for most wengerised player we have had.

If you play a system with one up front then you need each wide player to cough up with 10-15 goals per season if you want to challenge and if played regularly Theo is capable of that as he's an excellent finisher. Unfortunately he didn't add enough to his game generally to contribute to the team as a whole. If he could have worked on his crossing and link up play he would have been a real force. I think he is probably the player who has suffered the most from Wengers lack of direct coaching


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Post #480933  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:58 pm 
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http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... -year-deal

-------

Goodbye and good luck Theo.

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Post #480934  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:00 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Unless Per is completely useless with people, which doesn't seem the case, then surely any young player would benefit from the knowledge of a man with his experience? ..... but he has forgotten more about defending than most Premiership players ever knew. The more Germans in our set-up the better. They know the business.

More than Keown , Adams , Bould ... I think Per would be a disastrous appointment blighted by Wenger association , he'd be genuflecting , busily tugging his forlock every time Arsene paid a visit .

Promoting someone on the grounds of being a loyal servant seems ludicrous to me , what if he is useless he stuffs the whole youth programme .
Why gamble ....... get someone from outside with proven credentials .

"Germans know their business "...well they managed to lose two world wars . :icon_mrgreen1:


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Post #480935  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:22 pm 
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Wilts-Gooner wrote:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/11211390/theo-walcott-joins-everton-from-arsenal-on-three-and-a-half-year-deal

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Goodbye and good luck Theo.

Halleluhah ...along with Oxo another huge lump of dead pinus radiata off our books .

Wenger mismanaged Walcott but also Walcott could have gone a hell of long way to improving himself .

Success came too easy , fast tracked into the England squad at a young age , enormous wages before fully mastering his trade .

High speed , flashes of brilliance but all too often a passenger .................... Where's the rum bottle :3to-drink:


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Post #480936  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
But at some point, doesn’t the numbers speak for themselves? I will never dispute the criticism leveled at Walcott for his work rate or defensive play, but at the same time I don’t see why it matters so much. Nobody is talking about how Sanchez is playing defensively. Or Hazard, or De Bruyne, or Salah. What you expect from them is to create chances and score goals, and a wide forward who scores 10-15 goals per year while contributing 5-10 assists as well (which for a while looked like numbers Walcott was capable of) has done his job as far as I’m concerned.
I agree. He never got the chance to play centrally, which is what he apparently wanted, so we never found out if he is a good striker. Wonder how Sam will play him? I hope Theo gets the backing of the Everton fans - they usually warm to an attacking player, and they have not seen much of that recently. Theo was a credit to Arsenal so I wish him well.

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Post #480937  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:37 pm 
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tomc wrote:
socrates wrote:
It all seems like a typical transfer window for us........vague links with players (not substantiated by the selling clubs) but nothing really that concrete. The usual murmers of lowball bids with little chance of success.

It's as if we are waiting for some wonderful opportunity to just magically transpire.

I used to get excited by the thought of players coming in. Now I couldn't care less who comes and goes player wise. It makes no odds anyway with that old goat as manager.

Wenger really is becoming a thoroughly unlikeable man.
ZZZZ

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Post #480938  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Rich wrote:
HoddGooner wrote:
On what basis do you make this conclusion?

Well I don't know anything about his coaching capabilities so the only way I can form a good/bad opinion is that he seems well respected by everyone at the club, he seems to 'get' what it means to play for Arsenal, that he is young enough and close enough to the game to be able to realise the way the modern player has to play and that we've let far too many potential former players slip through our fingers.

Obviously it is all just an opinion based on what little I know, but that's all I have to go on. For example I can imagine Per being a better coach than a Pires for example. Some players seem a better natural fit for a coaching role.

:laughing7: Hands down to win the Candy Floss post of 2018 ...... plenty of air and no substance . You should be writing for one of papers .

You shouldn't make an appointment on the basis because someone is a nice respected guy .

Because of our reluctance to spend big money , the youth team could be the conduit for us to compete well in the League eg .. Neketiah , Maitland
... and as I said to Old man why take the risk ...?

It's not as innocuous as promoting an unskilled favourite nephew to oversee a branch of the family bakery .


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Post #480939  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:55 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
More than Keown , Adams , Bould ... I think Per would be a disastrous appointment blighted by Wenger association , he'd be genuflecting , busily tugging his forlock every time Arsene paid a visit . Promoting someone on the grounds of being a loyal servant seems ludicrous to me , what if he is useless he stuffs the whole youth programme . Why gamble ....... get someone from outside with proven credentials .

"Germans know their business "...well they managed to lose two world wars . :icon_mrgreen1:
I might have been referring to football where they have done a little bit. And as far as Per goes I was thinking less 'loyal servant' and more a zillion German caps and a shed full of medals, including the World Cup.

Also, in case you don't realise you are now officially Wenger obsessed. Ask the other monomaniacs on this site for the club membership form. Its not too late to escape. In the meantime...
https://youtu.be/vSyhOPVjqDw

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Post #480940  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:20 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
More than Keown , Adams , Bould ... I think Per would be a disastrous appointment blighted by Wenger association , he'd be genuflecting , busily tugging his forlock every time Arsene paid a visit . Promoting someone on the grounds of being a loyal servant seems ludicrous to me , what if he is useless he stuffs the whole youth programme . Why gamble ....... get someone from outside with proven credentials .

"Germans know their business "...well they managed to lose two world wars . :icon_mrgreen1:
I might have been referring to football where they have done a little bit. And as far as Per goes I was thinking less 'loyal servant' and more a zillion German caps and a shed full of medals, including the World Cup.

Also, in case you don't realise you are now officially Wenger obsessed. Ask the other monomaniacs on this site for the club membership form. Its not too late to escape. In the meantime...
https://youtu.be/vSyhOPVjqDw

Let's take the sledgehammer to this flimsy effort ... Roy Keane also has a zillion caps and never mind the shed ... a warehouse and two barns full of medals , cups , trophies , Ryan Giggs , Gary Neville , Tony Adams all with the same credentials ; fell short in what you are proposing the Lump of Granite should do .

On to the Wenger obsession .... I'd calmly ask the question do you think Arsene should stay on .... ?

I'd already burnt this version for my car CD listening ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBTHu9JSB0

have a bit of ancient Aussie you dithering old bedwetter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSmSERQakY


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Post #480941  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Theo only a three and a half year contract!

Strangely short?


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Post #480942  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Interesting article in The Times about the new power structure at Arsenal. There's a lot of talk from reporters about how our three big transfer targets in January have been picked by Sven Mislintat, and how he's the one really pursuing them as head of recruitment rather than just chief scout.

We'll see what comes of it, but it could be the first sign of Wenger actually losing power at Arsenal.


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Post #480943  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Chelsea go to penalties. Hope this doesn't happen next week or I'll miss them. Taking the grandsons and promised we'd not keep them out too late.

Brill if they lose. Conte really doesn't look happy with his team.


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Post #480944  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:11 pm 
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I for one won't miss Theo. He's been consistently poor in my opinion whatever the 'numbers' say. I've also been reading (on Twitter admittedly) that he's a 'legend'. What a load of old rubbish that is.


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Post #480945  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:12 pm 
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I can only quote Edward I when I wake up to this news.

A man does good business when....

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Post #480946  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:15 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
tomc wrote:
I used to get excited by the thought of players coming in. Now I couldn't care less who comes and goes player wise. It makes no odds anyway with that old goat as manager.

Wenger really is becoming a thoroughly unlikeable man.
ZZZZ

Maybe when you eventually wake up Hoy you'll see what's staring me, and almost everybody else including tomc, in the face.


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Post #480947  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:21 pm 
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I see that Bournemouth were not as good as Arsenal made them look. Out of the F A Cup 3-0

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Post #480948  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:32 pm 
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Two red cards for Chelsea. Mad stuff.

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Post #480949  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:38 pm 
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dec wrote:
Two red cards for Chelsea. Mad stuff.

How do Pedro and morata’s bans work? Will they be banned for the next league game or for our cup semi? I’m sure I’ve seen it before where suspensions only kick in a week after the incident meaning players can sometimes still play the next game. Always seemed odd


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Post #480950  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dec wrote:
Two red cards for Chelsea. Mad stuff.

How do Pedro and morata’s bans work? Will they be banned for the next league game or for our cup semi? I’m sure I’ve seen it before where suspensions only kick in a week after the incident meaning players can sometimes still play the next game. Always seemed odd

I presume it is the next match, so they will be available to play against us.

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Post #480951  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Why we are even considering him is beyond me.

He was really good for Dortmund, not only in his last year. I have my reservations about him based on how mediocre he's been for United, but at the same time Mourinho is to attacking players what Wenger is for defenders. He just doesn't have a clue how to get the best out of them most of the time.

As long as he's accompanied by other signings I'm fine with it, wouldn't be the first time a player benefitted from a change of scenery.


In his last 2 years in the Ukraine he scored almost a goal a game and assisted plenty as a number 10 as well. 2 footed, can dribble, shoot and pass...will fit Arsenal so much more than utd. Maybe we can even make him the new Santi?

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Post #480952  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:04 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
I for one won't miss Theo. He's been consistently poor in my opinion whatever the 'numbers' say. I've also been reading (on Twitter admittedly) that he's a 'legend'. What a load of old rubbish that is.


Meh. He's a guy who could be devastating when the team played to his strengths and he was feeling confident, but equally could be rather pathetic and invisible when not. He's had runs of really impressive form and runs of shockingly bad form, and a lot of Ok in between. Had he been luckier with injuries and shown the mentally he had in the first half of last season and in 2012/13 with greater consistency he could have been a very very good player for us. As it happened he was an average player who did have the handy knack of scoring goals.

Time was right to part for both parties, but I will miss the fact he had a good goalscoring record against Chelsea and a decent one against City, Utd & Spurs.

Amazing pace, decent first touch, good finisher and did that one run between Centre-back and full back as well as any wide player I've seen. Sadly did precious little else except an assist flurry when RVP turned gold and they developed an understanding.

A decent Arsenal career, but one that leaves all parties slightly disappointed.

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Post #480953  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:09 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
ZZZZ

Maybe when you eventually wake up Hoy you'll see what's staring me, and almost everybody else including tomc, in the face.
That he is an unlikeable man? That is rot. ZZZZ

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Post #480954  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Glad to see Morata finally getting pinged for his endless flopping. The guy has a lot of talent, but he makes Bobby Pires look like Akinfenwa...its been getting more and more embarrassing in recent weeks.

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Post #480955  Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:36 pm 
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Good luck Theo. In retrospect a great goal record considering he was playing out of position, his injury record notwithstanding as well. Yes, he was played out of position. He was never a true winger. The original selling point that was made to him was that he would play on the wing before being migrated to a forward position. Similar to Henry, his hero. For whatever reason Wenger didn't let him play much at his favored position. I saw a Michael Owen type player in him. Others didn't, fair enough. However, when used as a primary striker I believe he was used incorrectly. Often as a lone striker and that is not how you use him. Like Owen he should have partner up front, Owen had Heskey I think he and Giroud would have made a decent partnership but the fact is that we don't play 4-4-2 so he wasn't going to be effective for us and relegated to the wing where he drifted in and out of games with occasional brilliant performances.

I hate seeing him go to Fat Sam. I truly do. He hates Wenger, so hates us. Hate seeing him benefit from any of our players. Mixed emotions because I wish Theo well but want Fat Sam to fail.

Anyway, I'm hoping this allows one of the youngsters to either start or be first off the bench. We have some wonderful talent that just needs minutes. Not that I don't want us to buy a replacement if a great one becomes available but I do think we have the talent to replace Walcott internally. The tough part is that we are fighting for a CL position and need someone who can come in and contribute. Maybe that can happen with a youngster, but its a big ask at this level.

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Post #480956  Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:13 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Maybe when you eventually wake up Hoy you'll see what's staring me, and almost everybody else including tomc, in the face.
That he is an unlikeable man? That is rot. ZZZZ


It's surely a matter of opinion and taste.

I share tom's. I think Wenger is selfish, elitist, affected, petulant and small-minded. None of which are qualities that particularly appeal to me. He has the unattractive type of greed of men who lack the imagination to think of ways to indulge the fortunes they accumulate. And to hold a club in hock to his inability to face up to retirement is almost singularly pathetic.

Plus he dresses like a *%^@ and has a weird-shaped head.

It must be tricky for you though - a member of the massive silent majority who can see all Wenger's great qualities and has to watch through disapprovingly pursed lips at the way an "Arsenal man through and through" has his skilful stewardship of the club rewarded. So much racket from that noisy minority of pretty much every observer (including the vast majority of Arsenal fans venturing an opinion) in alliance with the mainstream media and northern refs!

To be honest, if I had come up with the utter nonsense you did on our enemies in the north hating us successful sophisticated southerners so much they were unable to restrain their bias against our top club (even though we aren't) I might keep my finger away from the Z key for an Atlee-esque period of time and go and listen to some Sibelius.


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Post #480957  Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 am 
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Posts: 16415
Location: Stockholm

AmericanGooner wrote:
Good luck Theo. In retrospect a great goal record considering he was playing out of position

Have to wonder how the position he's played for basically his entire professional career is not considered his right one.


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Post #480958  Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:50 am 
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Posts: 26750

£60m profit in the transfer market this season, with any fee for Sanchez to be added to that.
I would bet arsenal go and spend that £60m this window and dress it up as a success and a sign that we are ambitious “look we spent £60m on Aubameyang!” Totally ignoring a net spend of zero when even average teams around us are shelling out £50-60m minimum

Leicester have spent £110m net in the last 2 seasons. Nobody can tell me Arsenal can’t match that kind of spending


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Post #480959  Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 12633
Location: Rotorua New Zealand

Hazuki wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Good luck Theo. In retrospect a great goal record considering he was playing out of position

Have to wonder how the position he's played for basically his entire professional career is not considered his right one.

:53big-emoticons: top marks to Bjorn Borg ... thought myself before frantic activities took me away .... "Oh he's playing out of position " :laughing7: .......... who decided that .....?

Well in between trimming his beard , fitting a new earring , wondering what sort of tattoo would make him look mean , admiring the new Porsche Theo apparently decided

...... "I dont want to be Marc Overmars I'll be Thierry Henry "

.... unfortunately he never remotely did enough work to match either but suddenly our American friend in between cleaning the .357 , bazooka and M16 .......feels Theo's been hard done by .


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Post #480960  Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:26 am 
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Posts: 18417

Rich wrote:
£60m profit in the transfer market this season, with any fee for Sanchez to be added to that.
I would bet arsenal go and spend that £60m this window and dress it up as a success and a sign that we are ambitious “look we spent £60m on Aubameyang!” Totally ignoring a net spend of zero when even average teams around us are shelling out £50-60m minimum

Leicester have spent £110m net in the last 2 seasons. Nobody can tell me Arsenal can’t match that kind of spending


Wenger has said we won't sign Malcolm so it's Aubameyang and Mickey. Exactly what you have said here will happen. Wenger should be putting serious pressure on the board to invest more. We just don't have enough talent in the squad, you can't depend on the same 2 players to bail us out every week. I'm wondering if they know a massive rebuilding process is required coming up and they want a new manager to conduct it and are holding back cash


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