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Post #510761  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:45 pm 
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To Judith,
Lovely to have 15 years strong of this forum. Steve looking down is thrilled no doubt. Keep it going. Ups/downs, different moods, banter, some come, some go. All for one club and that The Arsenal. :26encouragement:

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Post #510762  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:49 pm 
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Odysseus wrote:
Wow, don't know why but the whole 'End of the World' thing made me think of this place again after so many years. Being in self-isolation and full of red wine I thought I'd say hi. Hope all you Gooners are doing well.

Hello again. Blimey, how long is it since you’ve been here?


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Post #510763  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:11 am 
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I love seeing great assists. One of the things I loved about Bergkamp was his eye for a great pass. One of the things I loved about Fabregas as well. Henry was known as a scorer but he provided a lot and is not recognized nearly enough for that part of his game.


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Post #510764  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:15 am 
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david.d wrote:
Just catching up with the forum.
Dec Sorry to hear about your father. I wish him a speedy recovery and hope things get better for him and you.
Brom/Darren. I hope you and your families are recovering well and that it is just the normal flu which will pass quickly.
Judith , 15 years!
What Steve did all those years ago resonates to this present day. As DHD eloquently(as ever) put it this forum transcends time zones and continents.
It is a bit like a fellowship and a group of people 'down the pub'.
We may never probably meet but I love being part of this forum.
The amount of times this place has been a healing place for a defeat or to vent some frustrations. Thank you Steve. God rest your soul.

Me....
I was 50 yesterday. Spent it with my Princess who is now 14(going on 24) and we also visited family. I feel very loved and appreciated. My Princess made me 4 layers of photos of us and the family which all turn into a box with several lids. As you take a lid off the photos all splay out. Was so touched , She went to so much trouble.
Been a tough time recently on a personal level. 18 months with a woman who you put your heart and soul into it(who seemed to be on the same page) and then dumped a week after valentines day....
Oh well as my Sister succinctly put it you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your true woman.
A lot of pain shed but i'm getting there day by day.


Happy Birthday!

Sorry to hear of your break-up

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Post #510765  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:54 am 
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Zed wrote:
david.d wrote:
Just catching up with the forum.
Dec Sorry to hear about your father. I wish him a speedy recovery and hope things get better for him and you.
Brom/Darren. I hope you and your families are recovering well and that it is just the normal flu which will pass quickly.
Judith , 15 years!
What Steve did all those years ago resonates to this present day. As DHD eloquently(as ever) put it this forum transcends time zones and continents.
It is a bit like a fellowship and a group of people 'down the pub'.
We may never probably meet but I love being part of this forum.
The amount of times this place has been a healing place for a defeat or to vent some frustrations. Thank you Steve. God rest your soul.

Me....
I was 50 yesterday. Spent it with my Princess who is now 14(going on 24) and we also visited family. I feel very loved and appreciated. My Princess made me 4 layers of photos of us and the family which all turn into a box with several lids. As you take a lid off the photos all splay out. Was so touched , She went to so much trouble.
Been a tough time recently on a personal level. 18 months with a woman who you put your heart and soul into it(who seemed to be on the same page) and then dumped a week after valentines day....
Oh well as my Sister succinctly put it you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your true woman.
A lot of pain shed but i'm getting there day by day.

Happy Birthday David. You'll find your Princess. Yes, chin up. It's all good.

Many thanks Zed.


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Post #510766  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:55 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
david.d wrote:
Just catching up with the forum.
Dec Sorry to hear about your father. I wish him a speedy recovery and hope things get better for him and you.
Brom/Darren. I hope you and your families are recovering well and that it is just the normal flu which will pass quickly.
Judith , 15 years!
What Steve did all those years ago resonates to this present day. As DHD eloquently(as ever) put it this forum transcends time zones and continents.
It is a bit like a fellowship and a group of people 'down the pub'.
We may never probably meet but I love being part of this forum.
The amount of times this place has been a healing place for a defeat or to vent some frustrations. Thank you Steve. God rest your soul.

Me....
I was 50 yesterday. Spent it with my Princess who is now 14(going on 24) and we also visited family. I feel very loved and appreciated. My Princess made me 4 layers of photos of us and the family which all turn into a box with several lids. As you take a lid off the photos all splay out. Was so touched , She went to so much trouble.
Been a tough time recently on a personal level. 18 months with a woman who you put your heart and soul into it(who seemed to be on the same page) and then dumped a week after valentines day....
Oh well as my Sister succinctly put it you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your true woman.
A lot of pain shed but i'm getting there day by day.


Happy Birthday!

Sorry to hear of your break-up

Thank you Gooner!


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Post #510767  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:05 am 
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Rich wrote:
For the league to be voided this season (or for any divisive decision) there needs to be 14 of the 20 prem clubs to vote for it.
On the assumption that voiding the season means no relegation, no title and going back to last seasons positions for European places then you are going to get the vote from any club threatened with relegation which could be the bottom 8 teams. You wouldn’t get Liverpool’s vote as it would mean no title, you probably wouldn’t get Man U or Leicester’s vote as they sit in champions league spots (if 5th gets CL) but you would get the vote of chelsea, spurs and arsenal - if we revert to last season for allocation of CL spots Arsenal get CL for finishing 5th.

It could happen.

The fair thing is finding a way to finish the season even if it is behind closed doors but who knows what’s going to happen.

If I was a betting man I would say there is a 10% chance of the season finishing. I don’t see how clubs, being aware of work health and safety issues, could expose players and staff at the club to the risk they will catch the virus from others even if they were playing behind closed doors. It’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t happen. Let’s just worry about ordinary people first.

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Post #510768  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:26 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
For the league to be voided this season (or for any divisive decision) there needs to be 14 of the 20 prem clubs to vote for it.
On the assumption that voiding the season means no relegation, no title and going back to last seasons positions for European places then you are going to get the vote from any club threatened with relegation which could be the bottom 8 teams. You wouldn’t get Liverpool’s vote as it would mean no title, you probably wouldn’t get Man U or Leicester’s vote as they sit in champions league spots (if 5th gets CL) but you would get the vote of chelsea, spurs and arsenal - if we revert to last season for allocation of CL spots Arsenal get CL for finishing 5th.

It could happen.

The fair thing is finding a way to finish the season even if it is behind closed doors but who knows what’s going to happen.

If I was a betting man I would say there is a 10% chance of the season finishing. I don’t see how clubs, being aware of work health and safety issues, could expose players and staff at the club to the risk they will catch the virus from others even if they were playing behind closed doors. It’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t happen. Let’s just worry about ordinary people first.


I’m shocked people are still debating what will happen this football season! Never mind finishing this season I’d suggest there’s a 50% chance next season won’t start on time in August.

You will need infection numbers in the UK back to the hundreds and at the moment you have 1500 tested positive with the rumour being that up to 35000 could have it. This is going to ground everything for months and I don’t see the UK government being willing enough to introduce the extreme measures China used to combat the disease.


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Post #510769  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:12 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
If I was a betting man I would say there is a 10% chance of the season finishing. I don’t see how clubs, being aware of work health and safety issues, could expose players and staff at the club to the risk they will catch the virus from others even if they were playing behind closed doors. It’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t happen. Let’s just worry about ordinary people first.

I heard a guy from one of the top Russian teams interviewed on TalkSPORT yesterday. Zenit St Petersburg I think, without being sure. He said a domestic Russian league game, which might have involved Spartak Moscow but I’m not sure, had 1,600 people there who are not part of the crowd or fans attending the game. Staff of both teams, media reporters, television crew, police and so on.

There’s no reason to think Premier League matches will have any less. Indeed, my guess would be there’s even more at a Premier League game than at a Russian league match. If that’s the case, it surely means games cannot be played behind closed doors. The same number of stewards might not be needed, but I would imagine there would have to be a presence of some sort. That surely means the season won’t be completed. Bad luck for Liverpool if the season is voided, but my own view is stuff them.


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Post #510770  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:20 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I love seeing great assists. One of the things I loved about Bergkamp was his eye for a great pass. One of the things I loved about Fabregas as well. Henry was known as a scorer but he provided a lot and is not recognized nearly enough for that part of his game.

Everyone will presumably know Henry scored more goals for Arsenal than Bergkamp. What might not be realised so commonly is that Henry also provided more assists for Arsenal than Bergkamp.


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Post #510771  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
I’m shocked people are still debating what will happen this football season.

Stuck at home I've listened to some Talksport like Bernard. Given that it's a 24 hour sport radio station there's not much else for them to talk/speculate about! By the way, I'm with Bernard, stuff Liverpool. I wouldn't shed a single tear if the season was null and voided but I expect they'll find some way to either complete it or otherwise award the title to the scousers.


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Post #510772  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:47 am 
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Hello, hope you're all doing well in these weird times. To all of you directly affected (bromley, Darren, and anyone else I might've missed), best wishes to you and your families.

I never thought I'd be sort of defending Boris Johnson (the absolute cock), but I have to say I think the criticism aimed at the UK government has been extremely harsh. Their course of action is quite similiar to the one we've taken in Sweden. Believe me when I say I have no time for our current government, but I think their handling of this crisis has been excellent so far; calm, level-headed, and any measure that has been taken has been a direct suggestion from the experts and not just a political decision. From what I've seen the decisions being made in the UK has been made after advise from experts, which I think is extremely important right now.

Like it or not, social distancing to flatten the curve is probably our best bet at this point. It's tempting to just shut everything down, but what if this last for two months? Or more? It's simply not possible to close an entire country down for several months, and that's why drastic measures such shouldn't be taken until they have to.

Most have probably seen this already, but I think it's a very educational video to explain the thought process behind it all: https://youtu.be/nl6tTwxzCi8

Stay safe, and if you're feeling gloomy - Liverpool just had their best season ever and will probably not even get to lift a trophy.


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Post #510773  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:47 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
I’m shocked people are still debating what will happen this football season.

Stuck at home I've listened to some Talksport like Bernard. Given that it's a 24 hour sport radio station there's not much else for them to talk/speculate about! By the way, I'm with Bernard, stuff Liverpool. I wouldn't shed a single tear if the season was null and voided but I expect they'll find some way to either complete it or otherwise award the title to the scousers.


To be honest all laughing and joking aside I don’t really get the desire to strip Liverpool of a deserved title. It’s funny that they are run away title winners and this could happen and yes if they do win the title you won’t hear the end of it but really ? It’s all a bit unfortunate and let’s be honest they were far and away the best side in the league this year.

Also I would add that Arsenal aside if there’s any football club that could probably understand and empathise with the human tragedy involved in the situation its probably Liverpool.


Would I feel differently if it was Spurs ? Absolutely :1laughter:


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Post #510774  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:53 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Everyone will presumably know Henry scored more goals for Arsenal than Bergkamp. What might not be realised so commonly is that Henry also provided more assists for Arsenal than Bergkamp.


You wouldn't mention if Bergkamp was a kraut

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Post #510775  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:05 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Hello, hope you're all doing well in these weird times. To all of you directly affected (bromley, Darren, and anyone else I might've missed), best wishes to you and your families.

I never thought I'd be sort of defending Boris Johnson (the absolute cock), but I have to say I think the criticism aimed at the UK government has been extremely harsh. Their course of action is quite similiar to the one we've taken in Sweden. Believe me when I say I have no time for our current government, but I think their handling of this crisis has been excellent so far; calm, level-headed, and any measure that has been taken has been a direct suggestion from the experts and not just a political decision. From what I've seen the decisions being made in the UK has been made after advise from experts, which I think is extremely important right now.

y.


Sorry mate I disagree.

They have wasted 7 weeks. Came up with a ludicrous plan that suggested infecting 40 million people and killing hundreds of thousands because they were not prepared to damage the economy. The plan would have made Britain “infection land” to the rest of the world and nobody would have been able to come here, That was clearly a decision made by business and not science. The plan was ludicrous and unworkable.

We are back on the right track now but even now they are just offering best practice advice rather than legislating and enforcing decisions due to lobbying from the insurance industry so people can’t make small claims.


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Post #510776  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:15 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
They have wasted 7 weeks. Came up with a ludicrous plan that suggested infecting 40 million people and killing hundreds of thousands because they were not prepared to damage the economy.

But the plan wasn't to infect 40 million at once, clearly that would be bonkers from a humane, medical but also economic sense. They way I interpret the comments about herd immunity is just a resignation to the fact that most people will catch this disease at some point or another. Now it's just a matter of trying to control the situation enough so we can spread it out over a long period of time so as to not put an unnecessary strain on the hospitals.

I'm obviously not 100% up to date on the situation in the UK, it's more than enough just trying to follow what's happening here in Sweden. But in concrete terms, what are the measures people would've wanted to see that haven't been implemented? Here, a lot of people are complaining about schools being open, but I think there are very good arguments for why they should be. Some are suggesting we close our borders, but the experts are saying it won't make any difference.

It's a delicate balance obviously, but from my perspective the response in the UK and Sweden seems more fact-based than a lot of other places where politicians are making decisions to show strength rather than because they're advised to do so.


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Post #510777  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:22 am 
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Dutch government have chosen to try to control the virus rather than a draconian lockdown, which I think is the right decision. I don't really get the criticism of the UK government, I mean rationally what more can you do?

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Post #510778  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:25 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Hello, hope you're all doing well in these weird times. To all of you directly affected (bromley, Darren, and anyone else I might've missed), best wishes to you and your families.

I never thought I'd be sort of defending Boris Johnson (the absolute cock), but I have to say I think the criticism aimed at the UK government has been extremely harsh. Their course of action is quite similiar to the one we've taken in Sweden. Believe me when I say I have no time for our current government, but I think their handling of this crisis has been excellent so far; calm, level-headed, and any measure that has been taken has been a direct suggestion from the experts and not just a political decision. From what I've seen the decisions being made in the UK has been made after advise from experts, which I think is extremely important right now.

Like it or not, social distancing to flatten the curve is probably our best bet at this point. It's tempting to just shut everything down, but what if this last for two months? Or more? It's simply not possible to close an entire country down for several months, and that's why drastic measures such shouldn't be taken until they have to.

Most have probably seen this already, but I think it's a very educational video to explain the thought process behind it all: https://youtu.be/nl6tTwxzCi8

Stay safe, and if you're feeling gloomy - Liverpool just had their best season ever and will probably not even get to lift a trophy.


Hi Hazuki,

Good to hear from you again.

I remain to be convinced by UK govt policy on this. I hope you are right, and I am wrong, but I do wonder if there's an element of policy being influenced by lobbyists for business, especially the insurance industry. Having a policy which asks people to make a choice (please stay at home where possible, don't go to pubs, clubs etc), as opposed to shutting down all but essential activity smacks a little of trying to avoid insurance companies and the govt having to make payouts for claims and ssp for example.

Also another point worth raising I think. Advice from experts is, no matter how sincere, obviously predicated on the factors at play at any given time. An important point that seems to be missing from this debate is the absolutely chronic underinvestment in the NHS that has been happening for a number of years. We've found massive amounts of money for Trident, for HS2, for bankers bailouts etc etc, we've allowed the super rich to take the p*ss in terms of not paying a fair share of taxes, but the NHS has had to make due with empty promises of £350m extra a week and putting up with the burden of social care because this govt (and previous to be fair) has failed to provide a policy for it. Factor in the numbers of EU staff that have gone home in the wake of Brexit, and of course expert advice is going to be influenced by those factors. An NHS with 30% more beds and staff is an entirely different beast to the one we currently have, and would have allowed the experts more room for manouevre.

With regard to the video, I have 3 questions and a couple of observations:

1. Who is he?
2. Why has he made such a video?
3. How did it go viral (sorry) so quickly?

(I've asked him those questions direct on twitter, but no response)

As for my observations; his theory assumes that our NHS (the bottle) is currently empty and sat there waiting for these Covid patients. In reality, that bottle is already at capacity, even before this situation. Secondly, if he was really wanting to be informative, using that bottle to illustrate NHS capacity means his bucket should have been at least the size of a bus to illustrate the potential number who could fall ill. (A moot point perhaps, until you consider my first two questions).

Anyway, time will obviously tell.

Sorry for being a bit ranty everybody.

Stay safe.

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Post #510779  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:26 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
They have wasted 7 weeks. Came up with a ludicrous plan that suggested infecting 40 million people and killing hundreds of thousands because they were not prepared to damage the economy.

But the plan wasn't to infect 40 million at once, clearly that would be bonkers from a humane, medical but also economic sense. They way I interpret the comments about herd immunity is just a resignation to the fact that most people will catch this disease at some point or another


There was no effort to contain the spread at all. We had Cheltenham races, stereophonics gigs and mass gatherings all over the place. The pace of the spread should have been reduced to a halt. Wether they were trying to not infect everyone or not is irrelevant as isolation and recovery is the only thing that stops the numbers of deaths increasing from the virus.


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Post #510780  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:26 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Hello, hope you're all doing well in these weird times. To all of you directly affected (bromley, Darren, and anyone else I might've missed), best wishes to you and your families.

I never thought I'd be sort of defending Boris Johnson (the absolute cock), but I have to say I think the criticism aimed at the UK government has been extremely harsh. Their course of action is quite similiar to the one we've taken in Sweden. Believe me when I say I have no time for our current government, but I think their handling of this crisis has been excellent so far; calm, level-headed, and any measure that has been taken has been a direct suggestion from the experts and not just a political decision. From what I've seen the decisions being made in the UK has been made after advise from experts, which I think is extremely important right now.

y.


Sorry mate I disagree.

They have wasted 7 weeks. Came up with a ludicrous plan that suggested infecting 40 million people and killing hundreds of thousands because they were not prepared to damage the economy. The plan would have made Britain “infection land” to the rest of the world and nobody would have been able to come here, That was clearly a decision made by business and not science. The plan was ludicrous and unworkable.

We are back on the right track now but even now they are just offering best practice advice rather than legislating and enforcing decisions due to lobbying from the insurance industry so people can’t make small claims.


Beat me to it

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Post #510781  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:31 am 
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Finish the season however long it takes. So we could resume it July/August as an example. Then start afresh again August 2021. It would simplify things if the Euros were just cancelled and not rescheduled. Or just terminate the season immediately. No champions or promotion or relegation and start again in August if at all possible.

Either way, some big decisions need to be made.

I'm not sure why the police would need to be present at a behind closed doors match?

Whatever happens now, the gloss will be taken off Liverpool's title win anyway if they somehow were to win it.


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Post #510782  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:31 am 
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Odysseus wrote:
Wow, don't know why but the whole 'End of the World' thing made me think of this place again after so many years. Being in self-isolation and full of red wine I thought I'd say hi. Hope all you Gooners are doing well.

Hey stranger! Hope you're good. Would be good to see you back on here more frequently. I know we used to stay in touch via FB but I deleted my account a year or two back. Would be good to keep in touch.

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Post #510783  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:43 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
But the plan wasn't to infect 40 million at once, clearly that would be bonkers from a humane, medical but also economic sense. They way I interpret the comments about herd immunity is just a resignation to the fact that most people will catch this disease at some point or another


There was no effort to contain the spread at all. We had Cheltenham races, stereophonics gigs and mass gatherings all over the place. The pace of the spread should have been reduced to a halt. Wether they were trying to not infect everyone or not is irrelevant as isolation and recovery is the only thing that stops the numbers of deaths increasing from the virus.

There is still no attempt to curtail mass gatherings. Don't forget, it was the PL who made the decision to cancel the matches of their own volition. As you say, Cheltenham carried on regardless. In Ireland, the government said no mass gatherings over 100 indoors and 500 outdoors and have really ramped up the social distancing by overtly practicing it themselves - political tv shows with no audience and the contributors sitting 2 metres apart. That might be simplistic and look like gesturing but it is visually effective and gets the message across.

When people.ignored the advice and some pubs were still packed last weekend, the government closed all the pubs. That wasn't some.grand political gesture. The Vintners Federations in Ireland is a very powerful lobby group. It was a bloody tough call and put 50k people out of work overnight.

Closing schools is also a key part of social distancing. It has caused huge upheaval but, scientifically, is totally logical.

Finally, on the testing, the UK seems.to be doing the bare minimum. That on it's own keeps the reported numbers down.

I'm not saying for a minute that we are getting it right over here and the behaviour of some Irish people is quite frankly disgusting, but I think the UK government's approach has been reckless at best.

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Post #510784  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:43 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
There was no effort to contain the spread at all. We had Cheltenham races, stereophonics gigs and mass gatherings all over the place. The pace of the spread should have been reduced to a halt. Wether they were trying to not infect everyone or not is irrelevant as isolation and recovery is the only thing that stops the numbers of deaths increasing from the virus.

Yeah, can't argue with this. Mass gatherings of this kind should've probably been banned in most places a lot sooner than they were.


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Post #510785  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:44 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
If I was a betting man I would say there is a 10% chance of the season finishing. I don’t see how clubs, being aware of work health and safety issues, could expose players and staff at the club to the risk they will catch the virus from others even if they were playing behind closed doors. It’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t happen. Let’s just worry about ordinary people first.

I heard a guy from one of the top Russian teams interviewed on TalkSPORT yesterday. Zenit St Petersburg I think, without being sure. He said a domestic Russian league game, which might have involved Spartak Moscow but I’m not sure, had 1,600 people there who are not part of the crowd or fans attending the game. Staff of both teams, media reporters, television crew, police and so on.

There’s no reason to think Premier League matches will have any less. Indeed, my guess would be there’s even more at a Premier League game than at a Russian league match. If that’s the case, it surely means games cannot be played behind closed doors. The same number of stewards might not be needed, but I would imagine there would have to be a presence of some sort. That surely means the season won’t be completed. Bad luck for Liverpool if the season is voided, but my own view is stuff them.

For starters you would have to have security to stop people from illegally entering the game. You can’t imagine Liverpool fans obeying a ban on spectators just for starters. Then medical staff referees etc etc - going to be well above the 500 number which is current in Aust and about to be reduced. I think the FA should just call it and stop the silly speculation. The number of ordinary businesses and people that will financially sink across the world is scary. Does anyone think this will be over in three months? I was offered some travel credits that had to be taken in 12 months and I rejected them. I don’t think travel overseas is viable for at least 2 years. We need a vaccine to be discovered and then tested.

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Post #510786  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:48 am 
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john1 wrote:
Hi Hazuki,

Good to hear from you again.

Thanks John. It's been a depressing season for Arsenal, which decreased my interest in the forum a bit. Then it started getting interesting again after Arteta arrived, and then we quickly jumped to a stage where football suddenly feels more irrelevant than ever. Strange times for sure.

Again, I reiterate what I said to TG, I haven't followed the situation in the UK 100%. More importantly, I'm not claiming to be an expert on these matters, and the spread of the virus has proven to be extremely difficult to predict even for those who are experts. With that being said, I certainly feel you about the state of your health care! Sweden has the same problem, where too many years of bad policies and budget cuts has left us extremely vulnerable to a crisis like this. I'm hoping one good thing to come out of all of this is that we as a country set our priorities straight again.

With regards to the video; the guy is just a podiatrist, but I don't think the point is that he's some sort of authority figure who knows it all. He says himself we should be listening to the real experts (virologists and such), I think what he's doing is just trying to show in a simple way the thought process behind it all.

For me, the most important point illustrated in the video is this; if you take drastic measures like a complete lockdown (shutting down schools, non-essential work places etc) too soon, you risk just putting the whole thing off. It's impossible to keep that kind of lockdown up for several months at a time, meaning timing becomes hugely important. Otherwise what will happen is just that you will slow down the spread temporarily, and then when it's gone down and you open society up again it will start all over again. I think that part is being missed by many who are calling for different types of lockdowns.


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Post #510787  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:52 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I heard a guy from one of the top Russian teams interviewed on TalkSPORT yesterday. Zenit St Petersburg I think, without being sure. He said a domestic Russian league game, which might have involved Spartak Moscow but I’m not sure, had 1,600 people there who are not part of the crowd or fans attending the game. Staff of both teams, media reporters, television crew, police and so on.

There’s no reason to think Premier League matches will have any less. Indeed, my guess would be there’s even more at a Premier League game than at a Russian league match. If that’s the case, it surely means games cannot be played behind closed doors. The same number of stewards might not be needed, but I would imagine there would have to be a presence of some sort. That surely means the season won’t be completed. Bad luck for Liverpool if the season is voided, but my own view is stuff them.

For starters you would have to have security to stop people from illegally entering the game. You can’t imagine Liverpool fans obeying a ban on spectators just for starters. Then medical staff referees etc etc - going to be well above the 500 number which is current in Aust and about to be reduced. I think the FA should just call it and stop the silly speculation. The number of ordinary businesses and people that will financially sink across the world is scary. Does anyone think this will be over in three months? I was offered some travel credits that had to be taken in 12 months and I rejected them. I don’t think travel overseas is viable for at least 2 years. We need a vaccine to be discovered and then tested.

If nothing else, the players wont agree to it and it goes against the social distancing guidelines. Wayne Rooney said last weekend that he was hugely uncomfortable playing a match at the moment for fear of catching it.

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Post #510788  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:03 am 
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Hazuki wrote:

For me, the most important point illustrated in the video is this; if you take drastic measures like a complete lockdown (shutting down schools, non-essential work places etc) too soon, you risk just putting the whole thing off. It's impossible to keep that kind of lockdown up for several months at a time, meaning timing becomes hugely important. Otherwise what will happen is just that you will slow down the spread temporarily, and then when it's gone down and you open society up again it will start all over again. I think that part is being missed by many who are calling for different types of lockdowns.


Yes this is what I was wanting to say, there’s clearly thinking behind the tactic that wasn’t Boris, the cabinet and the scientists sitting in a circle cackling. The only thing about the shut down ‘delay’ in theory is that it brings you closer, slightly, to a time where there might be a vaccine, which I’m sure like you I read is beginning human trials in the US.


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Post #510789  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:04 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
.
For me, the most important point illustrated in the video is this; if you take drastic measures like a complete lockdown (shutting down schools, non-essential work places etc) too soon, you risk just putting the whole thing off. It's impossible to keep that kind of lockdown up for several months at a time, meaning timing becomes hugely important. Otherwise what will happen is just that you will slow down the spread temporarily, and then when it's gone down and you open society up again it will start all over again. I think that part is being missed by many who are calling for different types of lockdowns.

Hi Haz,

I don't think people are missing the point about a potential spike when restrictions are lifted. It's all about slowing the spread as much as possible to buy time to resource the health service, flatten the curve, and hopefully give some time for an effective anti-virus treatment and vaccine to be developed.

To me it seems really counter-productive to bring in measures on mass gatherings but then leave the schools open, as kids will be the worst when it comes to hygiene and you can't operate a school with social distancing in place. This thing has changed the way we live.

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Post #510790  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:12 am 
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dec wrote:
Closing schools is also a key part of social distancing. It has caused huge upheaval but, scientifically, is totally logical.

Finally, on the testing, the UK seems.to be doing the bare minimum. That on it's own keeps the reported numbers down.

Not sure about these two, to be honest. In Sweden we have about a million kids age 0-10. If we close all schools these children would need supervision, meaning parents would need to stay home - including doctors, nurses, police officers etc. Another risk is that in the cases where parents can't stay home for different reasons, the kids would be looked after by relatives, including grandparents who might be at risk. Children are not primarily the ones spreading the virus, so it's not even certain that clsoing the schools would have much of an effect.

As for the testing, there's an argument that once you have the kind of spread we see in a lot of countries, it becomes pointless to test every single possible case simply because you get no new information from it. All it would show is that we have one more person carrying the virus, without it being possible to determine when or where that person was infected. Let's not forget that extensive testing costs a lot of money and resources that might be better served elsewhere.

There are clearly dividing opinions about all of this, even among experts. But on the whole, I do think a lot of people are underestimating just how difficult and taxing these drastic measures are.


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Post #510791  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:08 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
dec wrote:
Closing schools is also a key part of social distancing. It has caused huge upheaval but, scientifically, is totally logical.

Finally, on the testing, the UK seems.to be doing the bare minimum. That on it's own keeps the reported numbers down.

Not sure about these two, to be honest. In Sweden we have about a million kids age 0-10. If we close all schools these children would need supervision, meaning parents would need to stay home - including doctors, nurses, police officers etc. Another risk is that in the cases where parents can't stay home for different reasons, the kids would be looked after by relatives, including grandparents who might be at risk. Children are not primarily the ones spreading the virus, so it's not even certain that clsoing the schools would have much of an effect.

As for the testing, there's an argument that once you have the kind of spread we see in a lot of countries, it becomes pointless to test every single possible case simply because you get no new information from it. All it would show is that we have one more person carrying the virus, without it being possible to determine when or where that person was infected. Let's not forget that extensive testing costs a lot of money and resources that might be better served elsewhere.

There are clearly dividing opinions about all of this, even among experts. But on the whole, I do think a lot of people are underestimating just how difficult and taxing these drastic measures are.

The government here has announced emergency measures to provide childcare to those working in the health sector - full details yet to be published but I expect select childcare facilities to be used. I work for a bank. Anyone who has a partner in the health sector can take leave to cover the childcare and on full pay. I expect this could be rolled out across the public sector. These are not perfect solutions but they attempt to stop the spread. BTW, not sure why you are saying that children are not primarily carrying the virus. The medical position on this is that they are vectors- unlikely to suffer the symptoms but can certainly.transmit it.

We have a lot of the severe measures in place here and it is ramping up. Believe me, people understand it. Some are feckless assholes who don't give a *%^@ and there is certainly a cohort who think it is being blown out of proportion, but by and large people are very worried about their loved ones and are supportive of the restrictions.

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Post #510792  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:20 am 
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dec wrote:
BTW, not sure why you are saying that children are not primarily carrying the virus. The medical position on this is that they are vectors- unlikely to suffer the symptoms but can certainly.transmit it.

Just to clarify this – I’m not saying children aren’t carrying the viruses, but they are not the ones primarily spreading it, as they don’t move around in society as much as adults. They don’t go to pubs, they don’t have business meetings in different locations, they don’t travel around during the day etc. Small children especially spend most of their time in school or at home, with a lot less exposure to different people.

Anyway, they've announced in Sweden just now that they're recommending all upper secondary schools (age 16-19 roughly) to close tomorrow. Seems reasonable, considering these kids are fine by themselves and can study from home.

I'm actually expecting all schools to close sooner or later, but that one is a lot more complicated with a lot of following issues. That's why it's probably a good idea to wait until it's completely necessary.


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Post #510793  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:02 am 
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dec wrote:
Brom and Darren. Speedy recovery and let's hope it is just regular flu and that your loved ones are not impacted.

David, thanks for your kind words. It sounds like you are already well on the way to moving on. Good for you.

Hi Dec.
You are very welcome.
I'm definitely on the way there.
Many thanks for your kind words.


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Post #510794  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:08 am 
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DHD wrote:
david.d wrote:
Just catching up with the forum.
Dec Sorry to hear about your father. I wish him a speedy recovery and hope things get better for him and you.
Brom/Darren. I hope you and your families are recovering well and that it is just the normal flu which will pass quickly.
Judith , 15 years!
What Steve did all those years ago resonates to this present day. As DHD eloquently(as ever) put it this forum transcends time zones and continents.
It is a bit like a fellowship and a group of people 'down the pub'.
We may never probably meet but I love being part of this forum.
The amount of times this place has been a healing place for a defeat or to vent some frustrations. Thank you Steve. God rest your soul.

Me....
I was 50 yesterday. Spent it with my Princess who is now 14(going on 24) and we also visited family. I feel very loved and appreciated. My Princess made me 4 layers of photos of us and the family which all turn into a box with several lids. As you take a lid off the photos all splay out. Was so touched , She went to so much trouble.
Been a tough time recently on a personal level. 18 months with a woman who you put your heart and soul into it(who seemed to be on the same page) and then dumped a week after valentines day....
Oh well as my Sister succinctly put it you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your true woman.
A lot of pain shed but i'm getting there day by day.


Hi DD - bit of a bummer, that. Hasn’t happened to me for many years but I remember (every time) when it did. I’m still here though.

Your Princess sounds like a gem. A nugget. A credit.

Get a shed. xx

Hi DHD.
Princess certainly is all those nice words.
Thank you for your kind words.


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Post #510795  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 am 
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richie wrote:
I'm not sure why the police would need to be present at a behind closed doors match?

In case opposition fans still turn up, I guess. For example, I bet some Tottenham and Arsenal supporters would still turn up at the North London Derby even if they couldn’t get inside the ground.


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Post #510796  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:01 pm 
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My whole family is now quarantined due to me being unwell. The wife's work has told her she can't come in and the kids have been told not to come into school. My cough is getting worse and my temperature is still up and down. I'm told by my work I have to assume I have it and act accordingly due to the lack of testing.

It's the poor *%^@ers who work in bars, theatres, pubs, restaurants, retail that I'm gutted for. Until Johnson stops his semantic b%*&s%*^ and enforces closures they can't claim insurance.

Nice to see you back Haz. I was coming to Sweden over easter for a break which is now cancelled, obviously. Was heading to Stockholm then visiting someone in Gävle. Never been so was really looking forward to it.

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Post #510797  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:16 pm 
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Darren wrote:
My whole family is now quarantined due to me being unwell. The wife's work has told her she can't come in and the kids have been told not to come into school. My cough is getting worse and my temperature is still up and down. I'm told by my work I have to assume I have it and act accordingly due to the lack of testing.

It's the poor *%^@ers who work in bars, theatres, pubs, restaurants, retail that I'm gutted for. Until Johnson stops his semantic b%*&s%*^ and enforces closures they can't claim insurance.

Nice to see you back Haz. I was coming to Sweden over easter for a break which is now cancelled, obviously. Was heading to Stockholm then visiting someone in Gävle. Never been so was really looking forward to it.

Best wishes to you and the family Darren.


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Post #510798  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:17 pm 
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Darren wrote:
My whole family is now quarantined due to me being unwell. The wife's work has told her she can't come in and the kids have been told not to come into school. My cough is getting worse and my temperature is still up and down. I'm told by my work I have to assume I have it and act accordingly due to the lack of testing.

It's the poor *%^@ers who work in bars, theatres, pubs, restaurants, retail that I'm gutted for. Until Johnson stops his semantic b%*&s%*^ and enforces closures they can't claim insurance.

Nice to see you back Haz. I was coming to Sweden over easter for a break which is now cancelled, obviously. Was heading to Stockholm then visiting someone in Gävle. Never been so was really looking forward to it.

Self isolation is the right thing to do, Darren. We had a nonsense reaction from my workplace when a partner of one of my colleagues tested positive. Hopefully, it's not COVID 19. Take care of yourself and get well soon.

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Post #510799  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:00 pm 
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Darren wrote:
My whole family is now quarantined due to me being unwell. The wife's work has told her she can't come in and the kids have been told not to come into school. My cough is getting worse and my temperature is still up and down. I'm told by my work I have to assume I have it and act accordingly due to the lack of testing.

It's the poor *%^@ers who work in bars, theatres, pubs, restaurants, retail that I'm gutted for. Until Johnson stops his semantic b%*&s%*^ and enforces closures they can't claim insurance.

Nice to see you back Haz. I was coming to Sweden over easter for a break which is now cancelled, obviously. Was heading to Stockholm then visiting someone in Gävle. Never been so was really looking forward to it.


So sorry to hear that. Take care, and to your family too.

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Post #510800  Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Darren wrote:
My whole family is now quarantined due to me being unwell. The wife's work has told her she can't come in and the kids have been told not to come into school. My cough is getting worse and my temperature is still up and down. I'm told by my work I have to assume I have it and act accordingly due to the lack of testing.

It's the poor *%^@ers who work in bars, theatres, pubs, restaurants, retail that I'm gutted for. Until Johnson stops his semantic b%*&s%*^ and enforces closures they can't claim insurance.

Nice to see you back Haz. I was coming to Sweden over easter for a break which is now cancelled, obviously. Was heading to Stockholm then visiting someone in Gävle. Never been so was really looking forward to it.

Ah. Interesting Times (to quote Terry Pratchett). The very best of wishes to you and yours for the coming period.

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