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Post #510681  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:17 pm 
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I was reading the comments on the video and the early posts were going in on Jenas. One of the funniest was Norwich vs Ipswich, the 'Old Farm derby...LOLOLOLOL

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Post #510682  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:42 pm 
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They mention, of course, Sol's transfer. I do feel for them in that regard, you can't blame Tottenham to feel hard done by. Not the popular thing to say on this forum but its true.


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Post #510683  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:14 pm 
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*%^@* sake......3590 new coronavirus cases in Italy. 368 dead in one day.

This has to be airborne doesn't it?


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Post #510684  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:19 pm 
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socrates wrote:
*%^@* sake......3590 new coronavirus cases in Italy. 368 dead in one day.

This has to be airborne doesn't it?

It is. But since it's in the respiratory tract and viruses are so unbelievably tiny, they just float out with water vapour when you talk (if you're infected obviously). So it spreads incredibly easily, especially as it takes so long for the infected to show any symptoms.


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Post #510685  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:53 pm 
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socrates wrote:
*%^@* sake......3590 new coronavirus cases in Italy. 368 dead in one day.

This has to be airborne doesn't it?


What? I'll turn to the news. Countries demographic issues (top heavy with the elderly...Italy, Japan Korea) are going to be hit hard. Italy probably has one of if not the biggest demographic issue in Europe.

There are whole small towns with hardly any young people. The country is practically giving away homes to anyone who will live and renovate them. All the young people have left, lack of jobs, boredom, etc, so in a way it makes sense, sadly enough, that Italy would be hit fairly hard.

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Post #510686  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:55 pm 
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Also 'reported' cases means only that. The unknown is the scary part. The number out there affected passing it on. I feel like I'm in real time in the beginning of one of those Hollywood movies.

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Post #510687  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:56 pm 
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bromley gooner wrote:
john1 wrote:

Hi Brom,

Just for clarity's sake, I don't mean Cummings is responsible for the actual virus, but his ideas on eugenics may well be a driving force behind our govt's policy.

As I said, I hope I'm wrong and I'm not usually one for conspiracy theories. But there's a lot about Cummings that is to say the least, questionable.

If anyone can reassure me on this, please do.

Hi John
I understand that some of Cummings' ideas are very questionable. I just think that the idea that there's any kind of link between Cummings' thoughts on genetics and UK coronavirus response is very far fetched.
But, obviously, what do I know.

Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.

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Post #510688  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:01 pm 
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dec wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Hi John
I understand that some of Cummings' ideas are very questionable. I just think that the idea that there's any kind of link between Cummings' thoughts on genetics and UK coronavirus response is very far fetched.
But, obviously, what do I know.

Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.


Hi Dec,

If this goes horribly wrong, and it could, the country will never forgive Boris and his cronies.


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Post #510689  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:03 pm 
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dec wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
Hi John
I understand that some of Cummings' ideas are very questionable. I just think that the idea that there's any kind of link between Cummings' thoughts on genetics and UK coronavirus response is very far fetched.
But, obviously, what do I know.

Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.



I genuinely believe they are putting the needs of the economy above the needs of the health and lives of the population.

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Post #510690  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:06 pm 
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Wirral Gooner wrote:
dec wrote:
Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.



I genuinely believe they are putting the needs of the economy above the needs of the health and lives of the population.


And we are just about the only European country adopting this approach. I demand to see the science that they are basing their political decisions on.

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Post #510691  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Wirral Gooner wrote:
Wirral Gooner wrote:


I genuinely believe they are putting the needs of the economy above the needs of the health and lives of the population.


And we are just about the only European country adopting this approach. I demand to see the science that they are basing their political decisions on.

Communities will become immune to it and it’s going to be important part of controlling this. About 60pc is figure you need to get herd immunity’
-CSO Sir Patrick Vallance Mar14

So when Boris Johnson emerges tomorrow first question must be: is that still policy because now everyone knows that approach kills a couple hundred thousand of us.

The truth is the strategy has nothing to do with science. It’s about money.


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Post #510692  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:16 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
socrates wrote:
*%^@* sake......3590 new coronavirus cases in Italy. 368 dead in one day.

This has to be airborne doesn't it?


What? I'll turn to the news. Countries demographic issues (top heavy with the elderly...Italy, Japan Korea) are going to be hit hard. Italy probably has one of if not the biggest demographic issue in Europe.

There are whole small towns with hardly any young people. The country is practically giving away homes to anyone who will live and renovate them. All the young people have left, lack of jobs, boredom, etc, so in a way it makes sense, sadly enough, that Italy would be hit fairly hard.

Approximately 50% of the deaths in Italy are in Lombardy. Lombardy is Italy's wealthiest region contributing c20% of the country's GDP. It's capital is Milan. This isn't some fictional Godfather/old town of Corleone we are talking about.

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Post #510693  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:48 pm 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.


Hi Dec,

If this goes horribly wrong, and it could, the country will never forgive Boris and his cronies.

Hi Soc,

If it goes wrong, the backlash against Boris will be an afterthought in comparison to the devastation to be dealt with.

I agree with Top Gun. This is about putting money ahead of people.

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Post #510694  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:21 pm 
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So alone in the world, our policy is to go for ‘herd immunity’. This requires at least 40,000,000 people to catch the virus, the assumption being that 98-99% will recover relatively quicky with no particular dramas and will achieve immunity to the current strain of the Coronavirus, though this immune status cannot yet be relied upon. The survival rate is probably reasonable but to achieve it, up to 10% of those infected will probably require Intensive Care treatment on ventilators. That’s up to 4,000,000 patients in intensive care. They won’t all be there at the same time but think about that number.

Advantages of the ‘herd immunity’ strategy:
1. By allowing the population to become infected by natural transmission with few interventions, it gets us through the infection stage quickly and doesn’t lay the country open to successive waves of infection, the worry being that once any lockdown is relaxed, infection rates will immediately spike again and we get into a cycle of infection/lockdown/infection ad nauseum.
2. Apart from the cost of equipping the NHS to deal with 4,000,000 ITU cases, this is a relatively low-cost strategy since no particular restraints are placed on commerce so there shouldn’t be much compensation to pay. No massive civil or armed forces interventions are required as most normal activities will continue, albeit many people will be choose to be less active for obvious reasons.
3. A lot of older people will sadly die. Whilst they’re unfortunate collateral damage, at this point, this is an advantage since the Care system is completely broken and a significant reduction in the number of Clients will make further planning easier and cheaper.
4. Similarly, fewer old and infirm people means fewer bed-blockers and less pressure on the NHS, which is good.

Disadvantages:
1. An awful lot of older people and people with underlying conditions will die - effectively they’ll be culled by Government policy.
2. Because we all know that the NHS will receive nothing like the help it needs to deal with the expected up to 4,000,000 ITU cases, the mortality rate will be higher, going from 1-2% to maybe 3-4%. At the lower end, that’s 120,000 older people and people with underlying conditions. It could be a lot more.
3. Whist the loss of those 120,000 will create useful capacity in the Care system and the NHS, it will also mean the loss of a great number of ’Captains of Industry’, wealth creators, acedemics, educators, legislators, the judiciary etc. I could go on for a while here but this country to a large extent is owned, managed, governed and sustained by people in the vulnerable age bracket.
4. This august forum would be a quieter place.

Some gamble, eh? I wonder why the rest of the world chooses to protect its citizens as a first priority. What does Boris and his government know that the rest of the world has missed?

I agree we should be told.


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Post #510695  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:42 pm 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
Just to give an external view, in Ireland we can't understand the UK government's approach. It looks like an almighty gamble. An experiment on a national level. It is directly contravening the WHO advice.


Hi Dec,

If this goes horribly wrong, and it could, the country will never forgive Boris and his cronies.


I disagree with this.

Another lie will be constructed akin to the one that convinced british people to damage our GDP by up to 14 % and remove their freedom of movement.

It will be the fault of the EU, previous government policies, the Chinese or the one armed man.

And you know what ? ..... the people will buy it and drink the kool aid again.


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Post #510696  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:12 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Dec,

If this goes horribly wrong, and it could, the country will never forgive Boris and his cronies.


I disagree with this.

Another lie will be constructed akin to the one that convinced british people to damage our GDP by up to 14 % and remove their freedom of movement.

It will be the fault of the EU, previous government policies, the Chinese or the one armed man.

And you know what ? ..... the people will buy it and drink the kool aid again.

They will just say - we followed medical advice. Game set & match. Throw in the words fake news and avoid responsibility.

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Post #510697  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:22 pm 
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Very sobering reading. The coronavirus could last until Spring 2021.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... SApp_Other


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Post #510698  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:00 pm 
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Wall Street Journal headline (subscription to read link..sorry). Which makes sense as I thought. They have an aging population so unfortunately more people susceptible.

Italy, With Aging Population, Has World’s Highest Daily Deaths From Virus

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Post #510699  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:02 pm 
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5-6 percent kill rate reported in parts of Italy, that's an insanely high rate. 2 percent is pandemic level. Nationally they have a serious, serious issue on their hands.

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Post #510700  Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:10 pm 
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For the record I think you’re jumping to conclusions you can’t really justify, but if you want to do something about it, here’s a petition for lockdown.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/301397

There are coherent arguments against a lockdown, closing schools and work places, etc.

Personally I just don’t think there’s going to be anything like the hundreds of thousands of deaths this year from this. But what do I know, thats just more speculation.


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Post #510701  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:10 am 
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Please give one minute special remembrance today, as it is 15 years that my Son Steve,
the founder of this wonderful Forum has passed away!
I am very grateful to Roger and a few others who have kept it going and bring pleasure
to so many Arsenal lovers all over the world!
Steve would be so happy to see his beloved site going strong after so many years!
Thanks to ALL of you, without you all, his dream would of died with him!
Look after yourselves in these traitorous times!


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Post #510702  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:42 am 
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All the best to you and the family. Always in remembrance. I try to (but sometimes fail) to remember that when posting on here. And my conduct. I'm happy to be part of his continued legacy via this forum. Stay blessed, and please above all with the current events, stay safe!

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Post #510703  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:50 am 
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:12hello-bye: Steve
Thanks for this wonderful forum! :58big-emoticons:

Take care Judith & family :12hello-bye:

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Post #510704  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:12 am 
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Judith wrote:
Please give one minute special remembrance today, as it is 15 years that my Son Steve,
the founder of this wonderful Forum has passed away!
I am very grateful to Roger and a few others who have kept it going and bring pleasure
to so many Arsenal lovers all over the world!
Steve would be so happy to see his beloved site going strong after so many years!
Thanks to ALL of you, without you all, his dream would of died with him!
Look after yourselves in these traitorous times!


My word Judith - 15 years!! Has it really been that long?

Steve did something very special, but you know that. Your lad’s name and his legacy endures, despite Rog’s surly indolence over pay rates.

It was a great privilege to meet with you all those years ago at the Arse. I hope you are well? I also hope I reflect the views of all who contribute to this still vibrant and vital forum when I say we all give thanks for Steve’s prescience. He did a remarkable thing from which we have all benefitted.

Currently, we face a global issue that was never anticipated back then, but this forum draws us all together nonetheless. We are a group, a fellowship, a gathering that spans continents and time zones. Our common interest is the Arse - but there’s so much more. Long may it continue.

All of it thanks to Steve Gleiber.

You should be proud - I know you are.

xx


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Post #510705  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:25 am 
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The FA continues to read this forum for my advice.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-liv ... 51465.html

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Post #510706  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:40 am 
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DHD wrote:
Judith wrote:
Please give one minute special remembrance today, as it is 15 years that my Son Steve,
the founder of this wonderful Forum has passed away!
I am very grateful to Roger and a few others who have kept it going and bring pleasure
to so many Arsenal lovers all over the world!
Steve would be so happy to see his beloved site going strong after so many years!
Thanks to ALL of you, without you all, his dream would of died with him!
Look after yourselves in these traitorous times!


My word Judith - 15 years!! Has it really been that long?

Steve did something very special, but you know that. Your lad’s name and his legacy endures, despite Rog’s surly indolence over pay rates.

It was a great privilege to meet with you all those years ago at the Arse. I hope you are well? I also hope I reflect the views of all who contribute to this still vibrant and vital forum when I say we all give thanks for Steve’s prescience. He did a remarkable thing from which we have all benefitted.

Currently, we face a global issue that was never anticipated back then, but this forum draws us all together nonetheless. We are a group, a fellowship, a gathering that spans continents and time zones. Our common interest is the Arse - but there’s so much more. Long may it continue.

All of it thanks to Steve Gleiber.

You should be proud - I know you are.

xx

I join with these sentiments.

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Post #510707  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:21 am 
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Judith wrote:
Please give one minute special remembrance today, as it is 15 years that my Son Steve,
the founder of this wonderful Forum has passed away!
I am very grateful to Roger and a few others who have kept it going and bring pleasure
to so many Arsenal lovers all over the world!
Steve would be so happy to see his beloved site going strong after so many years!
Thanks to ALL of you, without you all, his dream would of died with him!
Look after yourselves in these traitorous times!

Thanks Judith !


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Post #510708  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:08 am 
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Thanks Judith for your lovely message. Wishing you and your family all the best wishes, and RIP Steve - unbelievable it's been 15 years.


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Post #510709  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:12 am 
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OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.


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Post #510710  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:38 am 
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Judith, I’ll join others in expressing my gratitude to Steve for this forum, and of course to all those who have kept it going. Your son will be remembered by many for a very long time.


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Post #510711  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:40 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.

Best wishes to you and your family.


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Post #510712  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:41 am 
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Thanks Judith. Steve will always be remembered. He created something lovely.

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Post #510713  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:56 am 
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Judith wrote:
Please give one minute special remembrance today, as it is 15 years that my Son Steve,
the founder of this wonderful Forum has passed away!
I am very grateful to Roger and a few others who have kept it going and bring pleasure
to so many Arsenal lovers all over the world!
Steve would be so happy to see his beloved site going strong after so many years!
Thanks to ALL of you, without you all, his dream would of died with him!
Look after yourselves in these traitorous times!


Hi Judith,

Thank you for the message and timely reminder.

I am sure that is still a very sad time for you all even though you have wonderful memories and I am thinking of you on this day.

The forum is an amazing place, bringing together fans from different countries and all walks of life and you should be very proud that your son's vision has endured the passage of time and remains the best Arsenal forum around. If it was judged in terms of titles it would have won 15 in a row!.

Regards.....Soc


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Post #510714  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:43 am 
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Bernard wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.

Best wishes to you and your family.

Thank you Bernard.


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Post #510715  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:49 am 
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bromley gooner wrote:
OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.

Same here. Started feeling unwell on Friday evening when I was gigging. Nothing too drastic, aches, pains coughing and bit of a temp. I work from home anyway during the week so doesn't really change much for me.

Wishing you all better Bromley.

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Post #510716  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:01 am 
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Brom and Darren...........I'm sure your symptoms are just a bit of seasonal flu/cold.


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Post #510717  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:12 am 
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Darren wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.

Same here. Started feeling unwell on Friday evening when I was gigging. Nothing too drastic, aches, pains coughing and bit of a temp. I work from home anyway during the week so doesn't really change much for me.

Wishing you all better Bromley.

Best wishes to you and your family as well Darren. Hopefully socrates is right as not every incident of feeling a bit under the weather will be the Coronavirus. Good luck anyway.


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Post #510718  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:24 am 
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Darren wrote:
bromley gooner wrote:
OK so me, the wife and son have all come down with flu symptoms over the weekend. We're not at deaths door or anything but we have decided to keep locked away and self-isolate for the next week as per government guidelines. So if I'm posting more rubbish than normal please excuse me I'm sitting around bored at home.

Same here. Started feeling unwell on Friday evening when I was gigging. Nothing too drastic, aches, pains coughing and bit of a temp. I work from home anyway during the week so doesn't really change much for me.

Wishing you all better Bromley.

And to you Darren.


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Post #510719  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:26 am 
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socrates wrote:
Brom and Darren...........I'm sure your symptoms are just a bit of seasonal flu/cold.

Probably Soc, but a bit freaked out with what's going on. Bit of an overreaction, thinking better safe than sorry.


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Post #510720  Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:41 am 
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The more right wing your Government the less likely a lockdown will be and it will be met with extreme resistance. I.e look at the US and UK

Basically socialism looks after all (maybe too much but that’s another argument) capitalism looks after the strong only. It’s a very simple problem with the answer being somewhere in the middle.

Now we have reached a moment where temporarily and only temporarily extreme socialism is required to combat a common evil for a short period of time and the government don’t have the answer built into their belief system.


That’s it, if you are wondering why you don’t understand the UK response it’s entirely this.

Take care of your families and make the decisions based on what you feel is right for you as it’s beyond the government.


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