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Post #524921  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:32 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
It’s a fact that Xhaka has conceded more penalties than any other player since 2016.

Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/granit- ... d-25519331

Plus others, obviously he’s given away more since this article too :58big-emoticons:

If you actually type “xhaka sets new record “ into a search engine it brings up quite a lot of content for all the wrong reasons

The sky is red .... the sky is red !


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Post #524922  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:38 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.

https://onefootball.com/en/news/granit- ... d-25519331

Plus others, obviously he’s given away more since this article too :58big-emoticons:

If you actually type “xhaka sets new record “ into a search engine it brings up quite a lot of content for all the wrong reasons

The sky is red .... the sky is red !

Deflection alert! Answer Haz's question: 'Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.'

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Post #524923  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:39 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
https://onefootball.com/en/news/granit-xhaka-sets-new-penalty-conceded-record-25519331

Ah, this article didn't dispute the stats from premierleague.com so probably using the same base stats then.


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Post #524924  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:45 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
https://onefootball.com/en/news/granit- ... d-25519331

Plus others, obviously he’s given away more since this article too :58big-emoticons:

If you actually type “xhaka sets new record “ into a search engine it brings up quite a lot of content for all the wrong reasons

The sky is red .... the sky is red !

Deflection alert! Answer Haz's question: 'Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.'


Not deflecting at all. That’s where I read the detail. If Luiz has managed to “outclown” Xhaka since I take my hat off to him squire :58big-emoticons:

I’m a person who complies with quantum theory and observational reality


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Post #524925  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:49 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
mcquilkie wrote:
Deflection alert! Answer Haz's question: 'Where is that stat from? On premierleague.com they have Xhaka down for five conceded penalties since 16/17. David Luiz had that many last season alone.'


Not deflecting at all. That’s where I read the detail. If Luiz has managed to “outclown” Xhaka since I take my hat off to him squire :58big-emoticons:

I’m a person who complies with quantum theory and observational reality


Ah, okay, you were reporting from 2019. Crikey, have you got a fun couple of years ahead of you. How do you feel about face masks?

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Post #524926  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:29 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Rich wrote:


Is Xhaka good enough to start for us to get us in the top 4? Currently no, but if you buy quality players around him of course he can be. .


Now this IS a subjective opinion but I don’t think he can. I don’t think any of the top 5 clubs would touch him with a barge pole and he when would have been available for transfer due to his previous meltdown with the fans the only club that showed interest was her Hertha Berlin which is probably his actual level.

His game is littered with errors and I think Gary Neville summed him Up perfectly when he said “he’s the least experienced experienced player of all time”

In hypothetical world if we bought Oblak, Halland, Mbappe, Varane, De Bruyne etc then I think10 of those players plus Xhaka would finish top 4. He might stick out a bit in that company but there are worse players who have been regulars in top 4 teams who have been dragged there because of the quality of others.
More realistically do I think Arsenal can get top 4 with 4-5 quality additions in the positions we need and keeping Xhaka, yes I do.


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Post #524927  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:35 am 
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Rich wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Now this IS a subjective opinion but I don’t think he can. I don’t think any of the top 5 clubs would touch him with a barge pole and he when would have been available for transfer due to his previous meltdown with the fans the only club that showed interest was her Hertha Berlin which is probably his actual level.

His game is littered with errors and I think Gary Neville summed him Up perfectly when he said “he’s the least experienced experienced player of all time”

In hypothetical world if we bought Oblak, Halland, Mbappe, Varane, De Bruyne etc then I think10 of those players plus Xhaka would finish top 4. He might stick out a bit in that company but there are worse players who have been regulars in top 4 teams who have been dragged there because of the quality of others.
More realistically do I think Arsenal can get top 4 with 4-5 quality additions in the positions we need and keeping Xhaka, yes I do.


Top 4 maybe but no team with genuine aspirations of winning the title can have a midfielder in the middle of the park who is less mobile than Stephen Hawking.


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Post #524928  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:36 am 
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I mean, we don't have to look far to find worse players than Xhaka in a top four team. Man Utd look like a pretty safe bet for top four this year, and their two most used central midfielders are Fred and McTominay who are both miles below Xhaka.


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Post #524929  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:39 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
I mean, we don't have to look far to find worse players than Xhaka in a top four team. Man Utd look like a pretty safe bet for top four this year, and their two most used central midfielders are Fred and McTominay who are both miles below Xhaka.

No I’d take them, certainly mctominay

Chelsea ? Kante and Jorginho nah they are both better

City, erm no point doing that it’s obvious

Liverpool Fabinho, henderson and Tiago.

No, really just no.


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Post #524930  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:44 am 
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https://www.football365.com/news/sven-m ... i-torreira

Thoughts on this?
Mislintat transfers
Aubameyang - undoubted success
Mkhitaryan - not good for us but doing very well at Roma
Mavrapanos - we should be able to make a healthy profit on his future sale
Leno - Undoubted success - in my opinion the best GK we've had since Lehmann
Sokratis - plugged a gap but for £20m and at his age, zero resale it was £20m that could have been spent more wisely
Guendouzi - I still see flaws to his game inn terms of awareness and head up play, plus a lack of pace. We should make a profit on him. doesn't fit right now but was still a good purchase for the age and cost
Torreira - has to be a failure based on what was promised and he should have slotted straight in for £25m. Physically not suited to the league
Lichsteiner - plugged a gap for a year but wasn't ever good enough

A pretty mixed bag with more fails than hits for me


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Post #524931  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:01 pm 
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Rich wrote:
A pretty mixed bag with more fails than hits for me

Yeah, I would pretty much agree with all of your assesments there. One thing that strikes me is that Guendouzi is the only real hidden gem of the bunch. Aubameyang and Leno have been great, but Aubameyang was already a top class striker, and Leno had a reputation of being one of Germany's best keepers. Sokratis and Torreira had good spells but never exceeded expectations.

Apart from getting it right with your big buys, I think you need to fill out the squad with cheaper (relatively speaking) players or players who are more of an unknown quantity but who rises to the challenge - Robertson or Wijnaldum at Liverpool, Son at Tottenham and so on. From our current squad, it looks like we're on the right track in that department too; Gabriel, Tierney, Martinelli, Pablo Mari and Cédric are all players who have performed well without costing astronomical fees or having much previous experience with football at the very top level.


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Post #524932  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:01 pm 
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Totally nailed on

https://youtu.be/RZoNaFcB7fo


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Post #524933  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:46 pm 
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I can't quite believe it, but with Smith-Rowe returning to full training today Arsenal officially have ZERO injuries in the entire first team squad.


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Post #524934  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:34 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
old man of hoy wrote:
"Nobody's right if everybody's wrong."

Great lines, brilliant song. Amazing hat, ridiculous sideburns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-q78jiGoA
Enjoy - no sideburns but a good beard.

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Post #524935  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:10 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
No I’d take them, certainly mctominay

.


Really? Get glasses. Xhaka is better than Fred or McTominay.

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Post #524936  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:40 pm 
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Gunfire wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
No I’d take them, certainly mctominay

.


Really? Get glasses. Xhaka is better than Fred or McTominay.

Nope he’s a complete liability. I’d take either of them.

We have better players out on loan


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Post #524937  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:58 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I can't quite believe it, but with Smith-Rowe returning to full training today Arsenal officially have ZERO injuries in the entire first team squad.

Therefore it follows the manager has absolutely no excuses in the league for the rest of the year. Every game is winnable. There is not one game coming up that on our day we should not win. There are numerous games that we would have no excuse if we did not win.

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Post #524938  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 pm 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Great lines, brilliant song. Amazing hat, ridiculous sideburns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-q78jiGoA
Enjoy - no sideburns but a good beard.

:58big-emoticons: Great stuff.

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Post #524939  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:26 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
I can't quite believe it, but with Smith-Rowe returning to full training today Arsenal officially have ZERO injuries in the entire first team squad.

Therefore it follows the manager has absolutely no excuses in the league for the rest of the year. Every game is winnable. There is not one game coming up that on our day we should not win. There are numerous games that we would have no excuse if we did not win.

Except for the fact that the other teams are also trying to win.

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Post #524940  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I can't quite believe it, but with Smith-Rowe returning to full training today Arsenal officially have ZERO injuries in the entire first team squad.

Even this unpromising material can be fashioned into a rod to beat Arteta with.

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Post #524941  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:33 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Therefore it follows the manager has absolutely no excuses in the league for the rest of the year. Every game is winnable. There is not one game coming up that on our day we should not win. There are numerous games that we would have no excuse if we did not win.

Except for the fact that the other teams are also trying to win.

In terms of the league games we would be:
1) strong favourites for the games vs, Sheff U (a), Fulham (h), Newcastle (a) West Brom(h), Brighton (h)
2) We'd be favourites for Palace (a) and Everton (h) .....and Liverpool (h) in their current form
3) Fairly even odds for Spurs (h) and West Ham (a)
4) We wouldn't be favourites for Chelsea (a)

It isn't the worst run in, especially once we're past the spurs, west ham, liverpool games in our next 3.
I see the top 5 as must win. I'd want to win 2 of the next 3 and then realistically taking draws in the final 2 groups wouldn't be the worst results. 7 wins and 4 draws might just sneak in to a European place but that is a big ask


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Post #524942  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:36 pm 
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Wonderful goal from Messi tonight (then missed a penalty) but back to his goal. I have never seen a player score goals so consistently from outside the box in open play. He must have a highlights reel that shows them all. We know he's scored a ridiculous amount of goals but even if we ignore the overall quantum and compare to the types of goals all the greatest goalscorers in history have scored I doubt any would come even close to the number he's scored from outside the box.


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Post #524943  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:41 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Wonderful goal from Messi tonight (then missed a penalty) but back to his goal. I have never seen a player score goals so consistently from outside the box in open play. He must have a highlights reel that shows them all. We know he's scored a ridiculous amount of goals but even if we ignore the overall quantum and compare to the types of goals all the greatest goalscorers in history have scored I doubt any would come even close to the number he's scored from outside the box.

Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?


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Post #524944  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:53 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Wonderful goal from Messi tonight (then missed a penalty) but back to his goal. I have never seen a player score goals so consistently from outside the box in open play. He must have a highlights reel that shows them all. We know he's scored a ridiculous amount of goals but even if we ignore the overall quantum and compare to the types of goals all the greatest goalscorers in history have scored I doubt any would come even close to the number he's scored from outside the box.

Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?

His contract is up in the summer so he can leave as a free agent. Barca totally screwed up in not selling him to City last summer. They will lose their best player by miles and get nothing.

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Post #524945  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:02 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Except for the fact that the other teams are also trying to win.

In terms of the league games we would be:
1) strong favourites for the games vs, Sheff U (a), Fulham (h), Newcastle (a) West Brom(h), Brighton (h)
2) We'd be favourites for Palace (a) and Everton (h) .....and Liverpool (h) in their current form
3) Fairly even odds for Spurs (h) and West Ham (a)
4) We wouldn't be favourites for Chelsea (a)

It isn't the worst run in, especially once we're past the spurs, west ham, liverpool games in our next 3.
I see the top 5 as must win. I'd want to win 2 of the next 3 and then realistically taking draws in the final 2 groups wouldn't be the worst results. 7 wins and 4 draws might just sneak in to a European place but that is a big ask

Fair summary. On our day all games are there for us to lose. We are capable of this. Let’s see where we get to.

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Post #524946  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:08 pm 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?

His contract is up in the summer so he can leave as a free agent. Barca totally screwed up in not selling him to City last summer. They will lose their best player by miles and get nothing.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that. As you say, in that case Barcelona made a big error in not selling him last summer. Good!


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Post #524947  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:15 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
Rich wrote:
In terms of the league games we would be:
1) strong favourites for the games vs, Sheff U (a), Fulham (h), Newcastle (a) West Brom(h), Brighton (h)
2) We'd be favourites for Palace (a) and Everton (h) .....and Liverpool (h) in their current form
3) Fairly even odds for Spurs (h) and West Ham (a)
4) We wouldn't be favourites for Chelsea (a)

It isn't the worst run in, especially once we're past the spurs, west ham, liverpool games in our next 3.
I see the top 5 as must win. I'd want to win 2 of the next 3 and then realistically taking draws in the final 2 groups wouldn't be the worst results. 7 wins and 4 draws might just sneak in to a European place but that is a big ask

Fair summary. On our day all games are there for us to lose. We are capable of this. Let’s see where we get to.

An unbeaten run to the end of the season? We have lost 11 of our 27 league games. It will take some uplift in form to go the next 11 unbeaten.

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Post #524948  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:35 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Rich wrote:
I can't quite believe it, but with Smith-Rowe returning to full training today Arsenal officially have ZERO injuries in the entire first team squad.

Even this unpromising material can be fashioned into a rod to beat Arteta with.

And your expectations or should I say excuses are :

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Post #524949  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:38 pm 
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dec wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Fair summary. On our day all games are there for us to lose. We are capable of this. Let’s see where we get to.

An unbeaten run to the end of the season? We have lost 11 of our 27 league games. It will take some uplift in form to go the next 11 unbeaten.

I agree but we should knock a lot of points out of this run in if we are improving. The players need to demonstrate they want to win and put the cruise mentality behind them.

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Post #524950  Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:41 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
dec wrote:
His contract is up in the summer so he can leave as a free agent. Barca totally screwed up in not selling him to City last summer. They will lose their best player by miles and get nothing.

Fair enough, I didn’t know that. As you say, in that case Barcelona made a big error in not selling him last summer. Good!
Having Messi in your team is hardly an error!

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Post #524951  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:37 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Decaf wrote:
Great lines, brilliant song. Amazing hat, ridiculous sideburns!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io-q78jiGoA
Enjoy - no sideburns but a good beard.


That little girl will make it big time in the showbiz or music scene one day. Full of energy.

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Post #524952  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:39 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Rich wrote:
Wonderful goal from Messi tonight (then missed a penalty) but back to his goal. I have never seen a player score goals so consistently from outside the box in open play. He must have a highlights reel that shows them all. We know he's scored a ridiculous amount of goals but even if we ignore the overall quantum and compare to the types of goals all the greatest goalscorers in history have scored I doubt any would come even close to the number he's scored from outside the box.

Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?


I am also rooting Atletico for the title

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Post #524953  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:39 am 
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dec wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?

His contract is up in the summer so he can leave as a free agent. Barca totally screwed up in not selling him to City last summer. They will lose their best player by miles and get nothing.


Worry not, he will be at Arsenal :42laughter:

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Post #524954  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:17 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Having Messi in your team is hardly an error!

:42laughter:

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Post #524955  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:24 am 
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Rich wrote:
In terms of the league games we would be:
1) strong favourites for the games vs, Sheff U (a), Fulham (h), Newcastle (a) West Brom(h), Brighton (h)
2) We'd be favourites for Palace (a) and Everton (h) .....and Liverpool (h) in their current form
3) Fairly even odds for Spurs (h) and West Ham (a)
4) We wouldn't be favourites for Chelsea (a)

It isn't the worst run in, especially once we're past the spurs, west ham, liverpool games in our next 3.
I see the top 5 as must win. I'd want to win 2 of the next 3 and then realistically taking draws in the final 2 groups wouldn't be the worst results. 7 wins and 4 draws might just sneak in to a European place but that is a big ask


Love your optimism. I wouldn't back up the truck loaded down with 1000 pound notes with armed guards at the back of Ladbrokes but its 'doable', in theory. I don't expect we'll get close to it, a surprise win or two possibly (Sperz, Chelsea, West Ham) and a surprise/disappointing loss or two (Blades away, Everton home, and I'd contend a loss to Liverpool wouldn't surprise many).

Overall, I do agree its not the worst run in.

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Post #524956  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:10 am 
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gooner7 wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Still pleased that Barcelona were knocked out. It’s a club I find impossible to like. I really hope Atletico beat them to the La Liga title. Messi is 34 in June. If he leaves them, it’ll be interesting to see how much they’ll get for him? Will even City pay an extraordinary amount for a player of that age? 34 before he can even kick a ball for them?


I am also rooting Atletico for the title

Good on you mate. In Australia, your comments mean something a little different. Still that is the great thing about the internet and this forum.

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Post #524957  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:23 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Having Messi in your team is hardly an error!

...also, I can see a side paying way over what a near mid 30s Messi is worth or able to do for you (he's still very, very good, better than most).
I can see a club doing what Real Madrid did in buying Becks. They didn't need him and shoe horned him into the side, but the thinking was he'd sell so much merchandise its worth it. They'd win anyway, in their minds.

I can easily see the Chinese offering him a massive contract to come. One can only imagine the money they'd make domestically at the gate, tv, merchandise, etc.

So, two reasons a club would have, first, not many players are better than him even now in that position. Mbappe, Lewandowski....? Maybe people can come up with 3 or 4 names and I'd say 1 or 2 would be debatable and second, the revenue.

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Post #524958  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:11 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Fair enough, I didn’t know that. As you say, in that case Barcelona made a big error in not selling him last summer. Good!
Having Messi in your team is hardly an error!

Well Messi definitely isn’t going to win the Champions League for Barcelona this season. I think it’s extremely debatable whether missing out on whatever transfer fee City would have paid for him last year, if he does leave them for nothing this summer, wasn’t an error? Especially if Atletico do win La Liga this season.

Furthermore, if Atletico do win La Liga this season, is it debatable how much they’ve missed Partey this season?


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Post #524959  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:54 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
I am also rooting Atletico for the title

Good on you mate. In Australia, your comments mean something a little different. Still that is the great thing about the internet and this forum.

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Post #524960  Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:11 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Bernard wrote:
Top Gun, if you are using the mistakes leading to goals stat to say it’s a fact that Xhaka is the biggest liability then as Rich explains the definition of what is used to measure that, the gravity of an error, can only be based at least in part on subjectivity. That can only mean it isn’t a fact, surely?

Also, if any aggregate totals are measured since the start of the 2016/17 season, when Xhaka first became an Arsenal player, does it take account of games played, so average mistakes per game compared to everyone else? If not, it could be taken as an inadequate stat.

If you’re having a bit of trouble grasping what I mean, hopefully this will make it clearer. When I was a young kid Arsenal had a useless back-up keeper called Malcolm Webster. But he only played six games, one of which was a clean sheet. In his other five games I bet he gave away fewer goals because of errors than David Seaman did. But David Seaman gave away his goals from errors in 564 games. So it’s not surprising that in 564 games David Seaman gave away more goals from errors than Malcolm Webster did in the five games in which he conceded.

Alongside your alleged fact being based on no more than one single stat for errors leading to goals (which as Rich pointed out are also subjective viewpoints), it can only confirm your fact is a viewpoint. It ignores other criteria that are usable for assessing players, like forward passes in the final third making him the eighth best in Europe. Is it a fact he’s the eighth best midfielder in Europe? No of course it isn’t. Just like it isn’t a fact he’s the worst in England. Both claims would ignore other relevant measures.

In your case it is clearly a very firmly held opinion. But you claim it is a fact, and it isn’t. It’s an opinion, albeit as I said a firmly held one. It is not a fact.


Not it’s a fact. If you pass the ball to an opposing player in your own penalty area that’s an individual mistake. Xhaka has made more individual mistakes than any other player for the last 4 years. All fact. Not opinion a fact. To ignore it is denying the truth and obvious

Was the ball being passed to him on that occasion not a mistake then?


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