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Post #486361  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 pm 
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dec wrote:
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Did you think we would have as much of the ball as we did tonight and have as many great situations to put in a quality final ball. I thought we played better tonight than I thought we would but as I said earlier we somehow contrived to lose a game where we had enough possession and good situations to at least draw the game. Athletico are a great defensive side but they aren't worldbeaters.

When it comes to defending, they are worldbeaters. They are the best defensive team in the world, and have been for several years. Arsenal put in a decent effort tonight but couldn't break them down. Godin was superb. Watching the CL games in the last few weeks, Godin is like a player from another era. Atletico are farire than just a defence too. Gabi and Koke are very good midfielders while Costa and Griezmann are world class.


We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks. Why do Monreal and Bellerin underhit and overhit so many crosses? If they can't cross then why have them as overlapping fullbacks because ultimately they are the main crossers in the team and both are average crossers at best.

Monreal and Bellerin both have good engines and get up and down the pitch but are both pretty poor at both ends.


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Post #486362  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I have today there were times tonight when a final cross or pass was relatively simple and we messed it up. These were moments I would expect a decent championship level player to get right 8/10 times. So often it seems to me that arsenal players are very good at playing 5-10 yard passes with a first touch but ask them to dribble, shield a ball, cross a ball, shoot with power and accuracy, shoot at all! And they look like they haven’t really played football at the top level at all.


One man to blame for all these. Good riddance that he is finally leaving.

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Post #486363  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
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They aren't worldbeaters Haz or they wouldn't have dropped into the Europa League in the first place. They are an extremely well drilled defensive side but Barcelona they are not.

Well, they're ahead of Real Madrid in La Liga so I'd say they're pretty close to being a world class team. There are not many teams I'd fancy over them over two games.

Agree that we could've done more with a bit more quality in the final third, but it's just not there this season. There's no belief in the team.


All I ask is that when Monreal and Bellerin get into a crossing position they hit a reasonal ball into the box, not pinpoint accuracy but don't hit the first defender or balloon it beyond the far post. Is it really that difficult to hit a ball somewhere around the area between the penalty spot and the 6 yard box. It must be because they can't seem to do it.

Having said that our players seem to prefer to stand on the edge of the box rather than take a gamble and get on the end of a cross (apart from Ramsey) so perhaps its pretty futile crossing the ball in anyway.


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Post #486364  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Goonie wrote:
Time to rebuild. We need leaders along the spine. A new CB, DCM and GK, and more importantly a new defensive system.

I think it’s a long road back. If Wenger had been sacked when he should have 3-5 years ago we had a decent base to build from and CL football.

No doubt in my mind that wenger has left us in a worse place than when he found us.

6thin the league. Humiliated in the league cup final. Dumped out of the fa Cup by conceding 4 to lower league opposition. Completely outclassed by 10 Man Atletico and setting records left, right and centre for defeats, low pours totals, streaks etc.

A season to forget. The new manager has a tough tough task on his hands


I think it's fair to expect the new manager to get us into top four in a couple of seasons. Make us defensively solid would the first order of the day.


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Post #486365  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:40 pm 
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socrates wrote:
We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks.

I think you're making it sound way too easy. First of all, their defensive organization makes some crosses look poor simply because they deal with them effectively. Second, it's not like they have all the time in the world to take aim and hit any number of available Arsenal players. Some of the crosses were really poor but if it was that easy Atlético would've conceded a lot more goals this season.


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Post #486366  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:41 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Rich wrote:
I have today there were times tonight when a final cross or pass was relatively simple and we messed it up. These were moments I would expect a decent championship level player to get right 8/10 times. So often it seems to me that arsenal players are very good at playing 5-10 yard passes with a first touch but ask them to dribble, shield a ball, cross a ball, shoot with power and accuracy, shoot at all! And they look like they haven’t really played football at the top level at all.


One man to blame for all these. Good riddance that he is finally leaving.


Didn't watch the game, I knew the result

I did get texts from mates though which I'll read

"Ramsey captain material second half ". (I agree I'm starting to think Wenger wasted him" )

"Chambers did well" ( I really rate Chambers )

"Typical Wenger performance "

"It's over mate"


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Post #486367  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:42 pm 
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DHD wrote:
Keown giving Özil an absolute coating.

“Not fit to wear the shirt”

“Lost count of how many times he’s gone sick this season”

“Bet he’ll have a breakdown and won’t play again the season”

I enjoyed that. Does talk bollox a lot of the time but he is spot on with this assessment.
In a funny way the desperation in January to pacify the fans really cost us in this competition. We ended up with a big money player who could only play in a run of nothing league matches and to get him we lost Giroud.
Ospina was a disgrace for that goal.


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Post #486368  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
socrates wrote:
We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks.

I think you're making it sound way too easy. First of all, their defensive organization makes some crosses look poor simply because they deal with them effectively. Second, it's not like they have all the time in the world to take aim and hit any number of available Arsenal players. Some of the crosses were really poor but if it was that easy Atlético would've conceded a lot more goals this season.


Do other La Liga teams have as much possession and as many great situations as we have had over the two legs though?


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Post #486369  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:47 pm 
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socrates wrote:
dec wrote:
When it comes to defending, they are worldbeaters. They are the best defensive team in the world, and have been for several years. Arsenal put in a decent effort tonight but couldn't break them down. Godin was superb. Watching the CL games in the last few weeks, Godin is like a player from another era. Atletico are farire than just a defence too. Gabi and Koke are very good midfielders while Costa and Griezmann are world class.


We had numerous great situations tonight but our final ball was atrocious, that's not down to great defending its down to poor decisionmaking and poor execution of relatively routine tasks. Why do Monreal and Bellerin underhit and overhit so many crosses? If they can't cross then why have them as overlapping fullbacks because ultimately they are the main crossers in the team and both are average crossers at best.

Monreal and Bellerin both have good engines and get up and down the pitch but are both pretty poor at both ends.

Monreal has contributed a lot this season offensively but he had a terrible game tonight. It happens. Bellerin had a few poor crosses but a lot of the balls across the box were defended really well by Atletico.

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Post #486370  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

As I've stated previously, Özil in the side slows the team down. And he has been less effective for a long time. Wenger again relied heavily on a man who is either past it, or unwillingly to bring on his best.

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Post #486371  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Monreal has scored some goals this season but he's not a great crosser of the ball. So often he gets into good crossing positions and hits a poor ball in, usually a low one that hits the first defender although tonight he was massively overhitting some as well.


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Post #486372  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:51 pm 

I've become a fan of Monreal but the only positive thing I can say about him tonight is that he wasn't quite as bad as Bellerin. Ospina being employed as a professional goalkeeper is like the world's ugliest woman being employed as a supermodel. I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

Very disappointing result. But at least Wenger's nearly gone. Good riddance you old git.


  
 
 
Post #486373  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Given we just lost a European semi final I'm nowhere near as disappointed as I should be. We got knocked out by a better team who were incredibly well organised, and unfortunately we just lacked the requisite quality to turn our promising positions into something more threatening. I think we missed Giroud given the amount of crosses we played to little effect. For a game of this magnitude, Özil was disappointingly ineffective. All grace and poise on the ball yet was unable to break down their water tight defensive formation.


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Post #486374  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season and Sanchez was desperate to leave. What are you on about?


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Post #486375  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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I think we all have to agree the balance of the side is just not right. We tried but its hard to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I wouldn't question the effort tonight, far from it I thought the players put a shift in and actually played quite well. It's just the two ends of the pitch that let us down and have been doing for a long time.


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Post #486376  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:55 pm 
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From F365. Some should be sold this summer, but plenty need a helping hand rather than a push out the door. There is talent in this squad, but someone needs to coax it out of them. With the right manager and a handful of suitable signings, Arsenal can become relevant again

Become relevant again. That’s exactly how it feels


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Post #486377  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:56 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
I think you're making it sound way too easy. First of all, their defensive organization makes some crosses look poor simply because they deal with them effectively. Second, it's not like they have all the time in the world to take aim and hit any number of available Arsenal players. Some of the crosses were really poor but if it was that easy Atlético would've conceded a lot more goals this season.


Do other La Liga teams have as much possession and as many great situations as we have had over the two legs though?

Barcelona have struggled to break them down, let alone a relatively weak Arsenal side.

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Post #486378  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:56 pm 
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If he’s ruptured his achilles, as it seems he has, Koscielny is unlikely to play for 8-10 months. The new Manager’s plans won’t include Kos.


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Post #486379  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:03 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season


On occasions he has been, Haz, but on too many other occasions, he hasn’t.

Keown accused him of hiding tonight.


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Post #486380  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

To be fair, I said that before he went and ruptured his achilles! Think he might be done at this level now.


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Post #486381  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:04 pm 
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socrates wrote:
I think we all have to agree the balance of the side is just not right. We tried but its hard to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I wouldn't question the effort tonight, far from it I thought the players put a shift in and actually played quite well. It's just the two ends of the pitch that let us down and have been doing for a long time.

I completely agree with regard to the balance of the team. Defensively we are very disorganised and added to that, we have Mustafi who is basically just a bad defender. I think we have a lot going for us in terms of attackers. Midfield is dysfunctional though. Ramsey is good but we need two more high quality midfielders to go with him.

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Post #486382  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Rich wrote:
From F365. Some should be sold this summer, but plenty need a helping hand rather than a push out the door. There is talent in this squad, but someone needs to coax it out of them. With the right manager and a handful of suitable signings, Arsenal can become relevant again

Become relevant again. That’s exactly how it feels


I always believe we have a good squad. The outs should be Mertesacker, Cazorla and Koscielny. If they are replaced with players like when they were in their prime, we'd be very strong again.

Plus Ospina out if we can get a new GK.


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Post #486383  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:10 pm 

gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

To be fair Sanchez wouldn't have stayed at Arsenal if we'd paid him way more than Özil. Sanchez had decided to go, full stop.


  
 
 
Post #486384  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Bernard wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

To be fair Sanchez wouldn't have stayed at Arsenal if we'd paid him way more than Özil. Sanchez had decided to go, full stop.

Indeed, and he has done very little at Man Utd.

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Post #486385  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Feel bad for Kos missing the World Cup. He’s obviously been playing through the pain and on the edge with that Achilles for some time. The constant injury problem has clearly taken his level down dramatically this season.

Chambers, holding and Mavropanos have long deals but a minimum of 2 senior CB are required in the summer.

Kos will miss 6 months with an Achilles year. Not as long as a knee tear and far easier to recover from and should be no long standing issues related to the tear. Ive done both and I’d take an Achilles year over a knee injury any day


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Post #486386  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:28 pm 
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You have to wonder how many of this squad will be here next season?

I struggle to see much to really build a squad around. Some good players in attack but woefully unbalanced with all the players playing centrally.

How we could have done with a natural wide left player tonight to attack the rookie RB


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Post #486387  Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 10:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
You have to wonder how many of this squad will be here next season?

I struggle to see much to really build a squad around. Some good players in attack but woefully unbalanced with all the players playing centrally.

How we could have done with a natural wide left player tonight to attack the rookie RB


A fair few will be because you can’t get rid of too many in one transfer window, too much upheaval. But look at the squad 12 -18 months on and it will be very different


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Post #486388  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:19 am 
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Goonie wrote:
Rich wrote:
From F365. Some should be sold this summer, but plenty need a helping hand rather than a push out the door. There is talent in this squad, but someone needs to coax it out of them. With the right manager and a handful of suitable signings, Arsenal can become relevant again

Become relevant again. That’s exactly how it feels


I always believe we have a good squad. The outs should be Mertesacker, Cazorla and Koscielny. If they are replaced with players like when they were in their prime, we'd be very strong again.

Plus Ospina out if we can get a new GK.

The words 'out' along with players names and its shocking Mustafi's name isnt' anywhere in the preceding two posts...lolol. I'd Keep Kos before I keep Mustafi, and I really want to get rid of Kos.

I don't know the details of Cazorla's contract but as long as he's been out, surely he's kept on for sympathetic reasons.

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Post #486389  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:24 am 
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This match, no, this tie, is a reminder of why Wenger had to go. Completely winnable with the red card and the players come out in the second leg without much indication that it wasn't only about the possibility of playing CL football next season, a European cup final but also sentimental reasons. And Wenger couldn't get them up for it.

He simply can't motivate them anywhere near consistent enough to win much. Literally the only thing left to play for is to keep Burnley at bay.

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Post #486390  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:58 am 
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I love Martin Keown, but he was out of order and wide of the mark tonight. As per usual Özil covered a Lot of distance, but he also created the most chances, completed that most passes in the final third, made the joint most successful tackles and joint most ball recoveries. He also played 3 passes that against most defences would have led to goals

Athletico are the best defensive side in Europe anyway, and had an advantage that meant they didn't need to commit any players forward. They've conceded 4 home league goals all season and are on target to have the best ever home defensive record in top flight football in a major league.

People complain about him not being as effictive as for Germany or Madrid, but compare the team-mates. Xhaka would look like a genius playing for Madrid.


As for the game more broadly, the only surprise is that we didn't miss more chances. Everything else was almost scripted, right down to the personal tragedy for Kos, who rather than playing for one of the favourites in the World Cup is now facing a battle to save his career.

Ultimately we were beaten by the only team bettter than us in the tournament who were among the favourites for the champions league before two freak results demoted them. And on balance we probably should have beaten them. Typical Arsenal of the latter Wenger period, except last years cup final.

Looking ahead we need at least one, possibly 2 centre backs, another goalkeeper, a proper wide player who can cross and a midfielder with althleticism and defensive capacity, unless AMN is ready to step up.

I do think that alongside someone like Kante or Gilberto, Xhaka would be a much better player and less exposed.

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Post #486391  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:51 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
gooner7 wrote:
Wenger paid the wrong star player top wages to stay. Alexis would have been busting his gut out there tonight. Athletico would have somebody to keep eyes on. Another error of judgment from Wenger, and a very expensive one. Stan's son wouldn't have been very happy about that.

Özil has been one of our best offensive players this season and Sanchez was desperate to leave. What are you on about?


If Wenger had not been anal with Alexis, he would not have been gunning to leave. Alexis rightfully called out on the lack of attitude in the team. Wenger closed ranks with his softies and Alexis lost heart from there on. I blame Wenger for keeping the culture, thus keeping a team of softies lacking in fight. Özil has not been effective for months already. He had his change of heart too. He stayed on because Wenger gave him the bumper deal. But see what he dishes out?

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Post #486392  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:55 am 
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Xhaka and Özil have a gulf of difference in ability. Xhaka is playing far closer to his talent than Özil is. The sense of urgency for the squad was no where close to what it should be. Attacking players went missing at times. Lacazette was sometimes the only one willing to mix it up around the 6 yard box. Welbeck, a striker, supposed to have that selfish, striker's instinct seemed scared of the responsibility too often.

Of course Özil is going to have the ball and cover ground, he's supposed to be the best talent on the pitch for both sides. Arsenal goes through him for its set up so he's supposed to cover some distance. He was lackadaisical. It wasn't just just Keown, pretty much ever former pro pundit echoed similar thoughts.

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Post #486393  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:24 am 
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After a 1-1 draw with Burnley this weekend. “I think we suffered a little bit mentally from the big disappointment from Thursday”


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Post #486394  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:48 am 
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Wenger’s send off against Burnley is going to be awful. I think there will be a lot of the crowd who may leave before the ‘lap of appreciation’ and everything that goes with wenger’s last home game.


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Post #486395  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:46 am 
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Imo Özil is always ineffective when he stays on the right. He should be on the left halfway into their end from where he usually distributes good balls.

Why is he told to stay deep on the right? Is he there to help Bellerin because he doesn't do much other than act as a link man?

Does nobody else see this?


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Post #486396  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:47 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
Bernard wrote:
I'm afraid that I think Hazuki was being way over-optimistic about Koscielny having another good year or two in him if we sign another central defender who could organise him, like I believe Mertesacker used to. Even if we did, my guess is he's close to being finished due to injury problems.

To be fair, I said that before he went and ruptured his achilles! Think he might be done at this level now.

It does seem that so many of our players drop off a cliff with either form and/or injuries when they reach 31-32 ish. There are plenty of clubs who manage to get players playing well in to their mid 30’s l, they are declining but not at such a dramatic rate, and these clubs get good minutes out of these players who prove valuable squad members.

It seems a far cry from when wenger arrived and he was credited with adding at least 2 years to the back 4


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Post #486397  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:49 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Imo Özil is always ineffective when he stays on the right. He should be on the left halfway into their end from where he usually distributes good balls.

Why is he told to stay deep on the right? Is he there to help Bellerin because he doesn't do much other than act as a link man?

Does nobody else see this?

The whole shape of the team has been unbalanced for years. Wenger has built a completely unbalanced squad. Bellerin has had to be RB, RWB and right-wing for 90% of games he’s played in the last couple of years. When we played a proper 4-3-3 with wide forwards he was far more effective.


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Post #486398  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:02 am 
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Keown is out of order coating Özil when he's sucked arsenes Wally for years.

Özil needs to be played as a free spirit in the centre not wide where he would have a responsibility to track back, everyone with a brain knows this.


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Post #486399  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:28 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Keown is out of order coating Özil when he's sucked arsenes Wally for years.

Özil needs to be played as a free spirit in the centre not wide where he would have a responsibility to track back, everyone with a brain knows this.

Too many ex Wenger players from the early years have refused to criticise him. They see him as a father figure who was brilliant. Well he was once but if you’re going to be a pundit you have to call things thruthfully, you don’t have to be rude, any idiot can see that it has been wenger’s refusal to change and address our weaknesses as the biggest reason for our decline.


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Post #486400  Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:31 am 
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Looking forward to ridding ourselves of the useless excuse we call a manager. His lap of appreciation is going to be interesting with nobody in the ground and if the club intend on giving him the comments book the fans will be writing on in the armoury then they will need a lot of tipp exx


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