Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #479761  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:02 pm 
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£142m Coutinho to Barca has been agreed.
Transfer fees have gone mental, what exactly has Coutinho won?

I remember when Ronaldo went to Real for £85m, having just dominated the prem, won a few titles, cups and the champions league.

Liverpool have recouped £320m from the sales of Torres, Suarez, sterling and now Coutinho.....and are no closer to winning anything....but at least they seem to be showing some ambition. I expect them to go big for Lemar and/or Mahrez now.


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Post #479762  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:03 pm 
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Whereas we will get *%^@ all for Sanchez.


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Post #479763  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Daz wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
If I stick my finger on your nose that is GBH or is it ABH.


Actually it's neither.

Apart from that though this is a killer argument.

Why do you keep assuming that the ref did not clearly see what was also obvious on TV - namely, that Bellerin stretched, missed the ball and kicked Hazard instead?

Daz, you have no chance taking on bubblechris and his world-class debating skills.


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Post #479764  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Daz wrote:
Rich wrote:
So what is the point being the only choirboys amongst all the naughty kids when the naughty kids aren’t being punished?


But we're not as Wilshere clearly shows. I've seen loads of Arsenal players fannying around in the box trying to get penalties. All players - by and large - do it.

And all teams get "soft" (I prefer debatable) penalties. The bigger ones probably get more but again this isn't necessarily direct bias. This idea that we are more sinned against than sinning lies principally in the minds of Arsenal fans.

I think there was a case for both pens recently actually. Bellerin stretches and kicks Hazard instead of the ball. This obsession with which part of his leg Hazard held going down seems totally overcooked to me - he can't hold the bottom of his boot very easily, he makes the most of it because he feels he has been fouled and wants the pen but I didn't see it as entirely fraudulent since he WAS kicked while competing for a ball he was likely to win.

Holgate did impede the Liverpool player but it was still harsh.

I totally accept that they were not nailed-on but calling them farcical or suggesting there is some weird conspiracy against us I just find really embarrassing, especially coming from our manager in his increasingly ludicrous tin-foil hat post-match statements. Also I wish people would stop saying that anybody arguing they were legitimate decisions is operating on the premiss that any contact is a foul (followed by the "football is a contact sport" corrective pronouncement). I don't. I have never said that.

The rules use phrases like intentional, reckless or excessive and it is that the refs have the difficult job of interpreting. Do you think they ENJOY having their decisions picked over and vilified? They get it both ways as well since NOT giving pens also earns them an unmerciful slagging and suggestions that they are bent from the likes of Mourinho and Wenger - easily the two worst offenders here. I think it's a bit pathetic but hopefully video will go some way to addressing this issue.


Not sure both points of view have to be exclusive.

Hazard may have dived but his movement was still impeded, so a pen is fair. (as potentially would have booking him for embellishment as they do the equivalent of in other sports).

It was certainly more of a pen than the one that Liverpool got last night.

But despite Wenger's unhelpful comments after he was entirely justified against WBA, every single statistical analysis undertaken that I've seen shows that these things DON'T even themselves out and teams get very differing rubs of the green. Because as I've said before, all refs are human, and all humans are biased, despite their best intentions.

Not all as bad as the egomaniac cheat Mike Dean who has proved himself utterly incapable of applying the rules equally when reffing Arsenal games.
As you say, Arsenal spend plenty of time fannying around in the box.

Yet Dean has given us 3 penalties in 64 matches over 18 years. This is despite being the ref that has given the most penalties per game over the time he's been in the league. As illustrated by giving 4 times as many to our opponents. And more than twice as many to every team he's reffed more than 35 times, and between 3 & 5 times as many to every other top 6 side.

Likewise we have a lower winning % with him as ref than any other ref with more than 2 years top flight officiating. It is 19% lower than our average winning % over the same time. Over 18 years.

Most damning is that he actually reffed us in more games, with Arsenal enjoying a significantly lower winning % when we challenging for titles every year. So despite being almost 20% lower than the average now, it was 30% lower than the average win rate when we a top 2-3 team (and that was over a decade period).

Can you honesty, heart on heart, say that this doesn't suggest bias beyond the usual regular incompetence displayed by people like Jon Moss?

Or will you, as usual, stick to ridiculing me and anyone who suggests that we get a raw deal with certain refs without responding to black and white statistical fact (which in this case has the largest sample size possible over my lifetime)

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Post #479765  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:26 pm 
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lomekian wrote:
Or will you, as usual, stick to ridiculing me and anyone who suggests that we get a raw deal with certain refs without responding to black and white statistical fact (which in this case has the largest sample size possible over my lifetime)


That really isn't why I ridicule you though!

I am more likely to TEASE you for a being a little cockeyed and partial at times plus obsessional based on your in-match comments. Mike Dean is a dick and the WBA penalty was ridiculous as pretty much everybody agreed. *%^@ like that really DOES happen to all teams though whoever the ref on the day happens to be.

Pleased that you agree the penalty was a legitimate decision (I don't say it was the only possible one just that it was neither farcical nor evidence of a conspiracy against us), and I'm still not really sure Hazard's "simulation" was quite as bad as people say given that he WAS kicked. It wasn't a dive really, more an exaggerated effort to ensure the ref penalised what he had clearly seen anyway.


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Post #479766  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Also I think there is little difference between Wenger and Mourinho now on this issue. Both sound like entitled monomaniacal wankers on the topic. Wenger's post Chelsea comments were ridiculous in the extreme.

Just frozen my bollocks off to watch Brentford get knocked out of the cup by a club two divisions below us.

It's a painful business being an impatient noisy minority Zionist glory hunter.


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Post #479767  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Put yourself in Taylor's place. Taylor who's incompetence knows no bounds, look at the tackles that went on in the game that he allowed to pass, saw two players go for a ball at the same time. He could not have had a clear view of the incident from where he was standing but he did have a clear view of Hazard going down like he'd been shot.

He was taken in by Hazard and gave the penalty imo.

Nothing can be done about the score now but surely both should have to explain their part in the incident and if found to be the incompetents that I believe them to be they should be punished.

I'll leave it at that despite the cheap shots from both Bromley and Daz.


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Post #479768  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:51 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
He could not have had a clear view of the incident from where he was standing but he did have a clear view of Hazard going down like he'd been shot.


That makes absolute sense to me. Good point, well made.


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Post #479769  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Also I apologise for the cheap shot of suggesting you were talking utter bollocks - I don't know how I could have come to such a conclusion sorry again.


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Post #479770  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:04 pm 
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What an underwhelming 3rd round Saturday this has been.


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Post #479771  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:07 pm 
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As an increasingly soft plastic it does not bother me in the slightest that we'll get 0 for Sanchez & Özil. Not like they'd do *%^@ all with it anyway.


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Post #479772  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:12 pm 
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John wrote:
As an increasingly soft plastic it does not bother me in the slightest that we'll get 0 for Sanchez & Özil. Not like they'd do *%^@ all with it anyway.


Zionist.


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Post #479773  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:14 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:

It comes to something when people that know what they are talking about criticise the refs yet the FA take no notice.

Not to worry Kiwi you did exactly what some of the so called top refs do ie not look at the whole picture.


" people who know what they are talking about " who are these people .... ?

Football isn't an exact science like physics or maths it's all about passion , views get distorted ........ maybe it's you who should remove the blinkers , climb down from the lofty position of the forum's High Priest on rules / regulations and realise this .

Martin Tyler and Stewart Robson said that was a penalty on Lallana .

Arsene moaning about "non penalties" given against us but I guarantee if the players involved had swapped shirts he'd be screaming ........ PENALTY .


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Post #479774  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Who rattled your cage? :20hospitals:


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Post #479775  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:

You're blinkers are stopping you seeing the truth

Blinkers don't stop you seeing .......

.... they are used on horses to stop them being distracted by other horses alongside , they have full vision out front

...... always here to help :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:


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Post #479776  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:23 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Who rattled your cage? :20hospitals:


:icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: Er ...ahhmmm ....... replying to your post


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Post #479777  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Rich wrote:
kiwipete wrote:


Yes ...but hear yourself here Rich ...you are moaning about refs giving soft penalties and in the next breath advocating our players should get more savvy and do it too .

That's not the answer ...what these fairy floosed w****king players need to do is ......... stop cheating .

I agree I’d much rather stop the cheating and the soft penalties, but I can’t see that happening anytime soon. So what is the point being the only choirboys amongst all the naughty kids when the naughty kids aren’t being punished? If no one is enforcing the rules then

...... we need to adapt and give ourselves a better advantage.

:laughing7: " we need to adapt and give ourselves a better advantage " ..... wonderful blousy prose for CHEAT .

I agree it wont change , because authorities shy away from tough decisions .... they went as far as coin a non threatening word for diving ....... simulation .

What a bunch of wet soft cocks ... with Jock Wallace alongside I'd love to be addressing the Professional Footballers Association end of year function . Three game ban for diving .

Grunting stopped at Wimbledon ...you grunt you lose a point , grunt again .... the game ..third grunt .... the match . Too easy


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Post #479778  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:01 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
:laughing7: " we need to adapt and give ourselves a better advantage " ..... wonderful blousy prose for CHEAT .


Times like this I just think: what would Richie do?


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Post #479779  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:54 pm 
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http://dailycannon.com/2018/01/eden-haz ... t-arsenal/

At least he's admitted it.

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Post #479780  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Good news. Mark Hughes is available for a managers position.

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Post #479781  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:12 pm 

Niall wrote:
http://dailycannon.com/2018/01/eden-hazard-admits-to-diving-against-arsenal/

At least he's admitted it.

He also said a penalty was the right decision. Even if he went down theatrically to make sure he got a penalty, it doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.


  
 
 
Post #479782  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:16 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Niall wrote:
http://dailycannon.com/2018/01/eden-hazard-admits-to-diving-against-arsenal/

At least he's admitted it.

He also said a penalty was the right decision. Even if he went down theatrically to make sure he got a penalty, it doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.

Hazard has of course publicly claimed it was a penalty otherwise he would be opening himself up to the simulation charge. The rest seems to be the opinion of the author.

By his own admission to Auclair, Hazard has dived to win this penalty as the contact from Bellerin was not sufficient to bring him down. He has conned the referee into making that call. Cheating it used to be called. Chelsea have form for it.

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Post #479783  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:16 am 
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Bernard wrote:
Niall wrote:
http://dailycannon.com/2018/01/eden-hazard-admits-to-diving-against-arsenal/

At least he's admitted it.

He also said a penalty was the right decision. Even if he went down theatrically to make sure he got a penalty, it doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.

Exactly Bernard ........ the little coot from Northern Ireland missed that small detail .


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Post #479784  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:20 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Bernard wrote:
He also said a penalty was the right decision. Even if he went down theatrically to make sure he got a penalty, it doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.

Exactly Bernard ........ the little coot from Northern Ireland missed that small detail .

Who pulled your chain? :)
No, I had seen that earlier and knew someone would treat it as a lifeline....money was on Daz but with Bernard bouncing in I'm afraid this one still has years to run!!

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Post #479785  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:39 am 

Niall wrote:
No, I had seen that earlier and knew someone would treat it as a lifeline....money was on Daz but with Bernard bouncing in I'm afraid this one still has years to run!!

Not at all. I still haven't seen a replay of it. But practically everyone apart from you, bubblechris and Wenger seem to think it was a penalty because Bellerin kicked Hazard, which was a foul. That Hazard went down theatrically to make sure he got the penalty seems little more than a side issue. If he kicked him, and has anyone denied Bellerin did, then it was surely both a foul and a penalty?


  
 
 
Post #479786  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:48 am 
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Rich wrote:
£142m Coutinho to Barca has been agreed.
Transfer fees have gone mental, what exactly has Coutinho won?

I remember when Ronaldo went to Real for £85m, having just dominated the prem, won a few titles, cups and the champions league.

Liverpool have recouped £320m from the sales of Torres, Suarez, sterling and now Coutinho.....and are no closer to winning anything....but at least they seem to be showing some ambition. I expect them to go big for Lemar and/or Mahrez now.


I was about to post this as well. Crazy money. Not worth it but 100 mil plus may start being the figure for top players is almost there now. 75-90 million is not an outrageous amount any longer.

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Post #479787  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:11 am 
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Niall wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Exactly Bernard ........ the little coot from Northern Ireland missed that small detail .

Who pulled your chain? :)
No, I had seen that earlier and knew someone would treat it as a lifeline....money was on Daz but with Bernard bouncing in I'm afraid this one still has years to run!!

Gee shucks Niall I didn't see you lurking in the background ....... no disrespect intended especially to an administrator .... touches his forlock furiously .....

The poxy little country fresh from sorting out the West indies in the cricket , set about demolishing the Pakistanis yesterday , they were in all sorts of trouble before rain halted proceedings .


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Post #479788  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:35 am 
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Of the current 18 Premiership referees seven came up through Lancashire, Cheshire and Manchester football, and four through Yorkshire. The remaining seven come from Birmingham (2), Wiltshire (2), and one each from Northumberland, Leicestershire and Berkshire/Bucks. So, not one of them came up through the London FA or the adjoining county FAs, and not one was born in or very near to London - Graham Scott of Oxford being the closest. A remarkably unbalanced state of affairs in the running of the game.

Even assuming they do their best to exercise professional judgement in as honest a way as possible, refs are only too human, and will surely have from their backgrounds personal likes and dislikes of certain football clubs, probably developed in childhood? We all know how London is not beloved by people from the midlands and north, so it is quite possible there is some institutional bias against the capital's teams. When you consider the age of most of the Premiership men in black, Arsenal was the predominant London team in their formative years, so it is feasible our club attracts a disproportionate level of wrong decisions, even compared to other London sides. In years to come Chelsea may have that honour!

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Post #479789  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:59 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gee shucks Niall I didn't see you lurking in the background ....... no disrespect intended especially to an administrator .... touches his forlock furiously .....

Image


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Post #479790  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:55 am 
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Jack Wilshere is officially the most fouled player in the Premier League

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... layer.html


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Post #479791  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:01 am 
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47 degrees C here today. A record temperature ...


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Post #479792  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:49 am 
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old man of hoy wrote:
Of the current 18 Premiership referees seven came up through Lancashire, Cheshire and Manchester football, and four through Yorkshire. The remaining seven come from Birmingham (2), Wiltshire (2), and one each from Northumberland, Leicestershire and Berkshire/Bucks. So, not one of them came up through the London FA or the adjoining county FAs, and not one was born in or very near to London - Graham Scott of Oxford being the closest. A remarkably unbalanced state of affairs in the running of the game.

Even assuming they do their best to exercise professional judgement in as honest a way as possible, refs are only too human, and will surely have from their backgrounds personal likes and dislikes of certain football clubs, probably developed in childhood? We all know how London is not beloved by people from the midlands and north, so it is quite possible there is some institutional bias against the capital's teams. When you consider the age of most of the Premiership men in black, Arsenal was the predominant London team in their formative years, so it is feasible our club attracts a disproportionate level of wrong decisions, even compared to other London sides. In years to come Chelsea may have that honour!


This being football I suppose it is fine to just deploy your hypothesis and rely on "surelys" and "it is feasible" and "we all know" to back it up. The chippy Northerner theory has of course hidden dangers as I am quite sure a moments reflection will tell you. "They" don't like "Us".


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Post #479793  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:56 am 
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What about when a Yorkshire ref is in charge of a Lancashire club? You may not know this from your vantage point dahn the Old Kent Road but there's no great love lost there. Could Mourinho have a point - is it principally an anti red rose bias from those bastards across the Penines? Where does the West Midlands stand in all of this geographical bias - I imagine any ref from Sutton Coldfield will take a dim view of the Blues and who knows where the Black Country stands when it comes to giving soft pens? Even among the soft southern refs what if one of them had an unfortunate experience with a jellied eel in Rotherhithe which has solidified into a particular hostility towards clubs from south-east London.

It won't be long before we find out - I imagine killer evidence like "refs are only human" will be on its way very shortly.


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Post #479794  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:02 am 
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Anthony Taylor is from Wythenshawe in Manchester. You don't get much chippier than THAT so let's crunch those numbers.

Hmm. OK so he sent off Moses in the cup final. He had a set-to with Wenger (these northerners are pretty uncosmopolitan as well and often don't get modern abstract art in the way Arsene does so that makes sense). He gave Chelsea a penalty against us OK that doesn't quite fit but everybody knows that exceptions prove the rule and under the law of averages then surely it is feasible for one or two rogue decisions to find their way through.

Yes it's all falling into place now, you just need to do the geog!


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Post #479795  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:06 am 
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Craig Joubert...a Saffer in love with NZ ...


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Post #479796  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:34 am 
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Taylor shocks the comms yet again. Gives a red for a trip when it should have been a yellow.

Why always him?


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Post #479797  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:52 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Taylor shocks the comms yet again. Gives a red for a trip when it should have been a yellow.

Why always him?


He didn't shock the comms against Chelsea though. Everybody in the studio felt it was OK to award a penalty including the notoriously anti-Arsenal Thierry Henry. As did Dermot Gallagher (Irish so hates all English clubs equally) with the benefit of several slo-mo replays. As did the commentators for the Times, the Telegraph and the Guardian...


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Post #479798  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 am 
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warrior wrote:
47 degrees C here today. A record temperature ...

I'm currently in Manila and its gorgeous weather here...at least for me. A slight hint of rain so its gray clouds, breezy, not hot at all. Night time warm with a nice breeze. Don't have to run the AC at all. Hope it holds up till I leave here for my next destination (Malaysia).

Its summer there right? I have never been to any of the Oceana countries (Oz, NZ but will visit for sure, thinking of NZ to settle down in permanently actually) but from what I understand its summer when places like America and England are in their traditional 'winter months' like December and January, right?

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Post #479799  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:24 am 
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Hmm..interesting regarding England, the economy and this stats impact on politics. True?
http://www.businessinsider.com/falling- ... byn-2018-1

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Post #479800  Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:24 am 
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Daz wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Taylor shocks the comms yet again. Gives a red for a trip when it should have been a yellow.

Why always him?


He didn't shock the comms against Chelsea though. Everybody in the studio felt it was OK to award a penalty including the notoriously anti-Arsenal Thierry Henry. As did Dermot Gallagher (Irish so hates all English clubs equally) with the benefit of several slo-mo replays. As did the commentators for the Times, the Telegraph and the Guardian...


It wasn't that long ago you were going to do your centennial flounce. Why don't you sod off and support another team or chat on their forum.

Back to Arsenal matters......................


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