Guess what game wenger is talking about here....

Arsene Wenger: "I felt defensively we were very poor and made big mistakes. It's better not to talk about the second or third goals.

"Swansea were sharp, disciplined and hungry. Unfortunately I believe we were not good enough, I believe we were not disciplined enough.

"I don't want to talk about second or third goals."

Also I don’t care if the Everton game might be Aubameyang debut, keep the planned protests going and make them loud.

Support the team whilst the match is on but I’d love a full crowd for 15 mins before after and at half time to chant wenger out in unison!

Ha ha. I reckon that you're right.

That sounds like a set of good suggestions. Instead I've just done an hour in the gym and then followed that heap of dross. I need help.

How excruciatingly appropriate.

Sad really what we've become. Obviously Jenkinson Perez and Joel Campbell aren't up to it (but the latter 2 couldn't have done much worse tonight. Per is retiring and Santi's done.
Akpom and Reine Adelaide haven't made the grade. Čech and Ospina are not up to what our standard should be (think Seaman Lehmann or De Gea Courtois)
Nor are Debuchy Xhaka Mustafi Ramsey Holding Chambers Iwobi. These players are just not good enough for Arsenal. It's not a necessarily good comparison because of the wealth of some of the following clubs but how many of these would get in Man City Man U Liverpool Chelsea or Liverpool's first team (which should be our minimum criteria...we are The Arsenal after all for f... sake).
If I was brutally honest with myself I'd add Kolasinac Welbeck and Elneny . Maybe even Kos (deteriorating fast) Monreal (same) That's a lot of footballers. None of the youngsters look ready especially after the Notts Forest game.

So that leaves me with Özil (3 months left on his contract) Bellerin Maitland Niles (who might both struggle to get in any of the top 5 teams) Wilshere Giroud (who could be on his bike) Aubameyang(who probably wishes he could be on a bike...anywhere) and Mkhitaryan. Bit of a problem there lads.
I don't know if the Board will get rid of Wenger but whomever is in charge needs to go back to the classic composition of a successful competitive football team.....a strong spine ....absolute quality at GK CH Centre Mid and CF plus an inspiring Captain( a la Frank Mc or big Tone) Build from the back with a strong back 5 and then go from there. Easy for me to type!!

Anyhow my beloved Arsenal are currently on a downer right now but I still love this club....its been part of the fabric of my life for over 50 years..... and I wait patiently for brighter days.

I keep starting to type something really thoughtful and incisive , then think why bother ,

We have all said it before
We can all see the faults
We all know what is wrong
We all know the remedy ..... so why **&&^% bother

This Arsenal team remind me of a bus load of tourists all enjoying the countryside views , music playing , all chatting sipping fine [ no don't there ] ..... er ahmmm guzzling beer having a great time .

No-one wants to do the nitty gritty like Swansea did , drive the bus , check the oil , fill it up with gas , change a tyre , fix a puncture .

Probably the most graphic example of how a well organised nuts and bolts team can overcome a highly paid bunch of poofters .

I'm off to do the vacuum cleaning probably more fun .....can't wait for the Wenger post match ...perhaps "we were a lieeetle naive at the back "

when you say you think "why bother" what you actually mean is you can't think of anything really thoughtful and incisive.

Exactly Rich. As you imply, who bought Xhaka, who trains him, who makes him play in the position he does, and who keeps him in the team? It is WENGER's fault, not Xhaka.

I think it's shortsighted to say all the players should go. Whoever they're replaced with, nothing will change for as long as Wenger is manager. If we sign Aubameyang, he may start well. But my money is on you calling him bang average next season. Same with Mkhitaryan.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you because Wenger is hopeless but quite simply if a player can't be bothered to track a runner from midfield then that individual is displaying a total lack of professional application and is totally culpable. I have no idea how many goals Xhaka has cost us this year but it could be close to half a dozen. Wengers only crime is to keep playing him if he can't get the message.

Also technically he is nowhere near good enough to play for us. He has a cross field pass in his game and absolutely nothing else. I bet he is loaned out next year or moved on. This isn't a case of a player being "wengerised" this bloke is simply not up to it.

I'm curious because I really don't know. Do the Manchester clubs or Chelsea let the contracts of key players, their two or three best players run down to the point where we have with Sanchez and Özil? I recall we used to tie guys down. Fabregas would get re-signed 2 years out. It wasn't till near the end that Henry had his down to that point. Did Vieira run his down to that point?

Anyway, Wenger refuses to spend big on defenders. He just doesn't see the use of spending money on proven big name defenders. He inherited the back line and Sol was only going to come to us at the time (wanted CL football, a title and to stay in London near his family). Pers and Gallas are the only well known defenders I can think of in the last dozen years or so. Gallas only because of circumstances at the time.

We stopped trying to buy known quality defensive center mids since Diarra and we ran him off.

We won big games, the few we have (Chelsea) by playing good team defense. That doesn't happen every match. When we had to rely on the defense they have repeatedly come up short no matter what pairing we had in there.

Sorry that's crap. He was bloody good in Germany and should have been a good signing. With the right training, in a position and system that suits him, Xhaka could have been a good signing and has good technical ability. He's been Wengerised. As has Lacazette, who now looks to use Rich's phrase bang average. So will Mkhitaryan and, if he joins, Aubameyang. Look at Bellerin and Iwobi when they first came into the side. Bloody good. Now bang average at best. Wenger's management is fast becoming a disaster for Arsenal Football Club.

Agree for some of those but Not Xhaka mate. He's dreadful and hasn't impressed at any point unlike those players.

If it was evident he was being played out of position like you could legitimately suggest for Ramsey you could give him the benefit of the doubt but his overall game is just so poor. What is his best position because I assure you he's not a box to box midfielder either.

I must admit I didn’t watch any of Xhaka’s games in Germany. Can anyone that did answer whether he made these mistakes then? Was he better protected? At the moment he must go down as one of wengers worst ever signings.

Having said all that, and similar about many players in our squad, I’d like to see them all under mourinho or Conte or simeone or Allardyce!

Another good stat for you. We have conceded more goals in the league than the team who are bottom of the league.

What chances of finishing with a negative goal difference this season?

Xhaka mentioned here ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mFgZhUmK8Sw

Blimey us arsenal fans really do have it tough.
We have an owner we hate and who whilst being a billionaire puts no money in to the club
We have a manager we all want sacked but it is more likely he gets a new deal than that happening
We play uninspiring boring football that creates very few moments of actual enjoyment and excitement in a game
We also have any excitement of transfers sucked out of us because we know everything stays the same whilst the manager and owner are here
We pay the highest ticket prices in the country
We are the 5th richest club in the world but refuse to properly invest
We see the same story unfold every season and every time our team takes to the pitch.

We have ‘put up’ with this for 10 years. Maybe the fans can make a difference and enforce change, our chief executive can’t get rid of the manager but maybe the fans can if the protests are organised and loud enough.

Enough is enough. Time for change. Whatever other slogan we want to use. Give the fans what the deserve and something we can be proud of rather than embarrassed of

You've hit the nail on the head. I'm very worried that Mkhitaryan could end up being another Alan Hudson. Stunning ability but no real drive to perform. And with Wenger he'll keep his place in the team despite that. What a disappointing header with that clear chance he missed.

Wenger “We made unusual massive mistakes. That was the killer.”

Unusual mistakes! Haha

Here we have two blokes who haven't got a bloody clue ...... first day on any new job your nerves are strung out like a bow string .

Jesus H Christ ... remember one instance I couldn't figure out how to turn the welder ON ...another job had to do a tune up on a Rover 3500 .. couldn't figure how to get the bonnet open

....and on your first day you sure as hell don't want to ask anyone these simple questions you'd get crucified .

Give the poor pr*ck a chance to settle in , I'd say on the same wavelength but I wouldn't want him replicating his team mates .

Let's face it Aubemyang or No ....WE ARE DOOMED ..... sh**t football for the next 15 months

Claptrap. Under Arsene, Mkhitaryan will be Wengerised. If you can't see it, tough.

Jesus - I know we are all pissed off at the mo, but putting videos of those morons on here just makes me want to disagree with you!

I don't know why people are talking about Wenger-isation. What does that even mean any more?

Until maybe 2 1/2 years ago we at least had a style that we attempted to play and until maybe 5 years ago it was at least reasonably clear, coherent and more often than not pretty effective.

Now? Does anyone even know what the team is trying to do now? I see lots of good footballers who don't have a clue about what to do in terms of structure, defensive positioning or attacking patterns of play, bar give it to Özil and hope something amazing happens.

As most of you know, I've been stupendously patient with the manager. But last year I felt he should be encouraged to walk on a high, but an FA Cup win against London rivals is no small thing, particularly as it was such a brilliant and convincing win. This year, unless we somehow win the Europa League (which selling Giroud would massively undermine), I want him out the door. I always said in cold hard analysis, despite the stagnation, his achievements had plateaued at just about good enough to keep his job. Last year was pushing that with the Cup Final an excuse for the board to cover their own passivity and cowardice. This year, if he doesn't win the Europa League it has to be seen as a failure by every objective criteria, and the credit in the bank is no longer recent enough to preach patience.

This isn't wanting 'My Arsenal' back or thinking we should necessarily be winning the big prizes. But our resources mean we should be able to compete with anyone other than Utd, City, PSG, Real Madrid, Barca & perhaps Bayern on an equal footing. And quite apart from that, and rather more damning, I see this team and see most players performance levels deteriorating and a total lack of clarity about what the aim is on the pitch. The players look lost, and there is only person who can take responsibility for that.

Guardiola may be a wee bit of a fraud, in that he has only ever managed the super rich with obscene levels of domestic competitive advantage and having been bequeathed some of the best players in the world in each case, but he undoubtedly improves players en masse. Wenger hasn't really done that with more than a few here and there since circa 2010.

Its not even a case of being angry. He's brought us a lot of pleasure overall, and done his best. Its just that there is increasingly no point in him being here other than as an ever declining tribute act to himself and as stooge to boardroom parsimony.

I have seldom seen Xhaka done any type of defensive tackles which we see from Gilberto of days past. Gilberto will not let off esily. Xhaka likes to stand around and watch. This has cost us many times. His forward passes are minimal, and most times, inaccurate. He has also made too many careless passes resulting in swift counters. Xhaka is nothing but a peg in the field to relay the ball to, and he relays it to somebody else. He cannot make things happen. That said, most of our midfield players are like that.

The question in the short term is if we do finish outside the top 4 again and it seems likely (although I remain hopeful and I am crazy enough to think CL eligibility its doable), what will Kroenke do? My guess is he'll keep Wenger. If we go by his other teams, he seems loyal to coaches. Wenger has what seems to be a good enough excuse for him if he's questioned. The excuse and I'm not saying its legitimate or not, but Wenger will use the amount of money Chelsea and the Manchester sides have as swell as the willingness of Liverpool to spend money as well.

Finally, The Arsenal remains a profitable investment and are in the black financially. Unless that changes, I don't think Kroenke will think of replacing Wenger. So we can pretty much remove any idea that where he ends up on the table, save relegation, will have any bearing on his employment status.

There is the difference - you tried to turn the welder on and tried to open the bonnet. He looked around saw that everyone could not give a flying f... and did the same. We were one down, try a dribble, chase down the other team, break your arse to try and score. Did you see Alexis debut for Man U. A million miles of difference.

If AW had been your supervisor you would still be waiting to turn on the welder or open the bonnet.

No .... when I say think ... it means I'm giving the matter a little thought

Whereas you , young upstart ; in spite of your avatar desperately trying to portray some learned presence have your brain 'hard wired' to your knee

Mama Mia .... Do you ever read other people's posts or just constantly premature ejaculate ........ what on earth are you talking about ?

You seem so obsessed with having the word "Wengerised" formally recognised on Gleiber , you mention it every other **&^^%$ post .

The guy had played twenty minutes of football and you expect him to take Swansea apart single handed

Yes you're right there is a difference .. but comparing Sanchez to Mkhitaryan is like comparing apples to grapefruit , the former is a busy bee type player who can create something even when the rest of the team is cr*p , lucky for Man U

We having totally **&^** up as per usual in the transfer market and had to trolley grab someone from the Utd squad .

We should have held out for de Gea . Sanchez had the boost of starting the game , not a cameo appearance .

Mkhitaryan seems [ I've never seen him play to be honest ] to be more of an Özil , but anyone expecting him to make some ground shaking difference in his first appearance , playing twenty minutes

...ESPECIALLY under Arsene's guidance is living in Cloud Cockoo Land .

Just for the record , I did get the welder turned on , the switch was in a separate room and the bonnet catch for the Rover .. had the bloody pull lever located inside a locked glove box .

I'll continue to say the big surprise in the top 6 club league are Spurs. Everyone thought they'd be challenging for the for title and be in the top 2 or 3 and they are sitting in 5th. Had we won, we'd have been level with them. The fact we have played so badly and lost so many matches and gave up so many goals and are only 3 points behind them says much more about how badly Spurs have been playing than how badly we have been playing. They are 5 points from CL qualification and Liverpool are playing decently without Coutinho.

Maybe Spurs will eke out a CL place but it will be touch and go. We may even finish above them when all is said and done.

Lom to clarify its complete meaning for clarity

Wengerised



noun
1.
A professional footballer with plenty of excellent raw technical attributes unable to fulfil its potential due to lack of coaching direction at management level.
2.
E.g "oi mate that Aaron Ramsey has been properly facking wengerised"

We are exceptionally horrible away from home this season. Past seasons we would at least secure 30 points away. Our home record remains to be very good. Not sure why the players can't replicate home form...

Yeah, that was really bad.

I had a thought last night that the only thing keeping us in 6th place rather than lower down the tBle is the individual quality o our players. By that I mean, imagine wenger in charge of any of the teams in the bottom half? I really think he would get them relegated.

Utterly baffling what we are trying to do on the pitch anymore. The only thing I can think is that we have wenger’s plan A1 which is short quick incisive passing, lots of off the ball movement and passing to a better placed team mate for tap in goals. Except this plan A1 comes off so rarely simply because the players aren’t good enough to do it. So why persist - and why have no alternative way of attacking? I can only think that is the sole thing we work on in training

Keep Giroud.

Sell Lacazette.

Wenger out.

I didn't think Mikhi had a bad cameo like some. I liked his whipped cross across the penalty area at pace something we NEVER do at all and can forgive him for being slightly offside in the penalty area for that header because he had got himself into a good position. He must be wondering what he has got himself into.

I think we may be about to see the consequences of selling ox, Sanchez and Theo at once and only bringing in one wide player with pace to replace them as we may be about to see our play become more pedestrian and in front of opposing defences.

Apart from you, who else did? Playing at Wembley was always going to be an issue for them. I think they'll be fighting for fourth place with Liverpool. My own guess on the end-of-season order around the top is: 1. City 2. Man Utd 3. Chelsea 4. Tottenham 5. Liverpool 6. Arsenal.

I think City top and Arsenal sixth are the most certain bets, in that order of certainty. Utd second and Chelsea third look the next two most certain, again in that order (meaning I'm more confident Utd will be second than Chelsea third). Tottenham fourth and Liverpool fifth I'm much less confident about. Could easily be the other way round. But if Tottenham were still playing at WHL I'd have fancied them for second.

Not all Arsenal cock-ups are bad though - apparently arsenal.com uploaded the wrong video to the article about Wenger's post-match press conference, and instead people could see the video where Wenger talked about signing Aubameyang. Didn't see it myself, but it was up there long enough.

Also reports from Bild that Özil has agreed a new contract with Arsenal.

I was quite excited about the signing of Aubameyang until last night's debacle just reiterated what an absolute shambles we now are.

Even with Aubameyang we won't finish top four, he can't play in the europa league and we are about to lose Giroud who may have had a big role in our attempts to win the Europa League which is now our only hope of a top four spot. Given Lacazette's form, he was appalling last night (as they all were), Giroud might well have found himself the main man again. Several inviting crosses fizzed across the 6 yard box last night and Lacazette was nowhere to be seen. Bizarre.

Even in the midst of signing a top player we still can't help but find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Hi Soc; my earlier post was a bit of a rant but I believe that based on evidence seen so far, Giroud offers quite a bit more than Lacazette. Some may say Lacazette's not getting the service (as I did a few weeks back in terms of getting passes to him for runs into the channels), but good/great players make things happen themselves. I don't think Lacazette is up to it.