Fixtures March 31st - Manchester City - Etihad Stadium - 3:30 Pm

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Post #479721  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
We are underperforming. Financially only Man City are ahead of us.

http://www.espnfc.com.au/english-premie ... rsenal-psg


EPSN can do one on this. What the hall do fixed assets (massively inflated for Arsenal due to having a stadium on some of the most expensive land in the world) have to do with spending power? Not only is this misleading as it implies the value of the stadium is linked to spending power, but also it totally fails to take into account the hundreds of millions pumped into certain teams every year by their owners.

We do underspend, but any suggestion we can compete with City, Utd, Chelsea, PSG, or the spanish giants (or indeed Bayern) is total cloud cuckoo land. We simply can't unless Stan puts his own money in. This isn't to excuse our under-performance compared to Spurs, Monaco or Dortmund (until recently) or our underspending compared to Liverpool, but we do need to be honest.

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Post #479722  Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Just watched the highlights again and counting the big chances for both teams. I counted it to eight each until Chelsea had those last two after we equalized (Moratas attempt and then Zappacosta hitting the crossbar). So roughly equal on chances, a couple of good saves from both keepers although Courtois clearly made the most difficult saves.

What stood out to me was how our big chances came after intricate play and excellent combinations that are hard to defend against for any team, while several of Chelsea's big chances were gifted by us. It's been said many times before, but it's frustrating how hard we need to work for scoring opportunities compared to our opponents who are simply gifted a couple of chances per game.

Exactly right, I've been moaning about this for year. Put Chelsea's back 5 with our front 5 and we would be 20 points better off at the end of this season


For sure. And its been the case for 7 or 8 years.

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Post #479723  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:39 am 
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lomekian wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
We are underperforming. Financially only Man City are ahead of us.

http://www.espnfc.com.au/english-premie ... rsenal-psg


EPSN can do one on this. What the hall do fixed assets (massively inflated for Arsenal due to having a stadium on some of the most expensive land in the world) have to do with spending power? Not only is this misleading as it implies the value of the stadium is linked to spending power, but also it totally fails to take into account the hundreds of millions pumped into certain teams every year by their owners.

We do underspend, but any suggestion we can compete with City, Utd, Chelsea, PSG, or the spanish giants (or indeed Bayern) is total cloud cuckoo land. We simply can't unless Stan puts his own money in. This isn't to excuse our under-performance compared to Spurs, Monaco or Dortmund (until recently) or our underspending compared to Liverpool, but we do need to be honest.

Probably need some clarification from N5er but it is about what you can leverage out of your assets. A well run organisation should have a percentage of debt of their assets. Say 20 percent. If you own an asset including stadium or players you should be able to comfortably borrow 20 percent of that amount.

If however you owe 4 billion to a Russian millionaire then banks should not lend to you. But as you say you can have a cash injection. It means they are not a well run organisation.

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Post #479724  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:41 am 
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23 points to Man City. 23 points to the bottom club. Mid table.

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Post #479725  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:14 am 
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Apparently Aubameyang is not a target

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/ ... aubameyang

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Post #479726  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Daz wrote:
THIS is how to do a post-match interview I imagine it will be right up kiwi's strasse.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_AeszKJ-yI[/youtube]

.

:laughing7: fractionally abrupt but definetly my sort of guy ... always liked straight shooters , that's why Wenger gets on my tits big time with his mealy mouthed arse backwards drivel .

Wonder what the name Jock is short for .... Jocular


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Post #479727  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Funny how the media are falling over themselves to tell us that any contact in the box is a foul, but quite a few we’re on the opposite side when Ramsey was pushed in the back v Burnley. I don’t remember Dyche getting a ban for implying that the ref was biased for arsenal and against Burnley because of what had happened previously between the teams.
It’s almost as though ‘arsenal rob poor little burnley’ is a better story than ‘clear foul wins the game for arsenal’

I think more than a few arsenal fans will be watching every penalty area action with increased scrutiny this weekend. You’ll probably find at least 2-3 of the Bellerin type pens not given in tonight’s Merseyside derby


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Post #479728  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Funny how the media are falling over themselves to tell us that any contact in the box is a foul, but quite a few we’re on the opposite side when Ramsey was pushed in the back v Burnley. I don’t remember Dyche getting a ban for implying that the ref was biased for arsenal and against Burnley because of what had happened previously between the teams.
It’s almost as though ‘arsenal rob poor little burnley’ is a better story than ‘clear foul wins the game for arsenal’

I think more than a few arsenal fans will be watching every penalty area action with increased scrutiny this weekend. You’ll probably find at least 2-3 of the Bellerin type pens not given in tonight’s Merseyside derby


Isn't t always the same. Dennis's booking, or was it a red, against Liverpool, the first for intent. Eduardo given a red for diving. The fine for surrounding the ref which we never do as much as other teams. There were many many more but my memory lets me down nowadays.

There isn't a level playing field........................


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Post #479729  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Very soft penalty against Everton. Can't wait to hear what Sam has to say. Then an incident involving Holgate who gave it away and the ref bottles it and does nothing.

Comms agree, no penalty, Lallana goes down for no reason but he bought the ref. The ref, the incompetent Robert Madley.


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Post #479730  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:24 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
Very soft penalty against Everton. Can't wait to hear what Sam has to say. Then an incident involving Holgate who gave it away and the ref bottles it and does nothing.

Comms agree, no penalty, Lallana goes down for no reason but he bought the ref. The ref, the incompetent Robert Madley.


Doesn't matter whether it's soft or not ; he put an arm out to block Lallana's progress ; so he [ Lall ] made a meal of it but the defender shouldn't have stuck his arm out pure and simple .

That same bloke is lucky to be still on the field after his two handed shove in the back sent Fillino [ sp ? ] into the crowd .

Problem these days is there is so much shoving , grappling , shirt pulling in the box , a penalty could be given every time there is a corner . .... watch a game from the 70s / 80s .... none of that happened .

I wouldn't blame refs for being biased against us [ I'm not saying they are ] but the thought of p***sing off Arsene Wenger would be hard to resist .


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Post #479731  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:29 pm 
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kiwipete wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
Very soft penalty against Everton. Can't wait to hear what Sam has to say. Then an incident involving Holgate who gave it away and the ref bottles it and does nothing.

Comms agree, no penalty, Lallana goes down for no reason but he bought the ref. The ref, the incompetent Robert Madley.


Doesn't matter whether it's soft or not ; he put an arm out to block Lallana's progress ; so he [ LLall ] made a meal of it but the defender shouldn't have stuck his arm out pure and simple .

That same bloke is lucky to be still on the field after his two handed shove in the back sent Fillino [ sp ? ] into the crowd .

Problem these days is there is so much shoving , grappling , shirt pulling in the box , a penalty could be given any time there is a corner . .... watch a game from the 70s / 80s .... none of that happened .

I wouldn't blame refs for being biased against us [ I'm not saying they are ] but the thought of p***sing off Arsene Wenger would be hard to resist .


Another apologist for refs. Look at it again he made no attemt to pull or push Lallana, the touch was very light and no foul was intended. Then when Holgate is nowhere near Lallana he makes out as if he's being fouled and fooled the ref.

What Holgate does after is another matter and if I was reffing I'd have given him a red.


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Post #479732  Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:13 pm 
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3 match ban for Wenger.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 43866.html

This would also suggest that Wenger is being given a new system for management of the club and he appears not to like it. If I can read anything in to his comments he did not approve of the latest signing. While Wenger is there I bet he never plays for the club. What is interesting is we will sign an exceptional player in January.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/arsenal/story/ ... fer-set-up

Also in this article Wenger has prepared us for a shocking performance against Forrest. Sorry Arsene this is what you get paid a *%^@ load of money to do - motivate and prepare players.
"A Championship team is more difficult to play sometimes than a Premiership team coming out of the Christmas period. Because the Championship teams are prepared to fight for it, and the Premiership teams sometimes ease off a little bit when they play not to go down," he said.

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Post #479733  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:33 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Problem these days is there is so much shoving , grappling , shirt pulling in the box , a penalty could be given every time there is a corner . .....

And yet we rarely seem to get these soft ones. I’m convinced our players aren’t savvy enough in the box. Look at how vardy wins penalties, run past a defender, or cut across him and engineer contact. Sometimes won’t get them but never booked. It is a risk worth taking and one I wish our players would do more.
Who in this team is throwing themselves to the ground and rolling around under the slightest contact? (Ospina!)....not even Sanchez as he wants the ball he doesn’t want the free kick. Sadly we need to join them and force refs to make decisions.
I feel we are an easy team to make bad decisions against


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Post #479734  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:10 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
3 match ban for Wenger.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 43866.html

This would also suggest that Wenger is being given a new system for management of the club and he appears not to like it. If I can read anything in to his comments he did not approve of the latest signing. While Wenger is there I bet he never plays for the club. What is interesting is we will sign an exceptional player in January.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/arsenal/story/ ... fer-set-up

Also in this article Wenger has prepared us for a shocking performance against Forrest. Sorry Arsene this is what you get paid a *%^@ load of money to do - motivate and prepare players.
"A Championship team is more difficult to play sometimes than a Premiership team coming out of the Christmas period. Because the Championship teams are prepared to fight for it, and the Premiership teams sometimes ease off a little bit when they play not to go down," he said.


Wenger blames his players for lack of mental fortitude, but guess who is putting these into them. He really should just leave the EPL altogether. He irritates the FA, the referees, his own fans, and I am sure quite a majority of his players (at least those who really want to win something). Poor guy is way way past it, and still trying to impose himself. Longevity in management and in the EPL doesn't mean you are fantastic. You used to be. The gulf between Ferguson and you is huge. Give the new managers at City, Spurs and Pool a few more years, and they will exceed you in achievements too. Mourinho has already exceeded you, despite being in the EPL for much much fewer years. Your star has dimmed for nearly a decade now. Leave before the light extinguishes itself permanently.

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Post #479735  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:35 am 
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bubblechris wrote:

Another apologist for refs. Look at it again he made no attemt to pull or push Lallana, the touch was very light and no foul was intended. .

I'm not apologising for anyone .... when I watched it , it seemed he put an arm out to stop Lallana and that's confirmed in the photo ... ... of course there was never enough there to make Lallana fall in a big heap like he did .

Jurgen reckons wasn't a penalty so I guess you were right ... Big tick next to your name .


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Post #479736  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:49 am 
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Rich wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Problem these days is there is so much shoving , grappling , shirt pulling in the box , a penalty could be given every time there is a corner . .....

And yet we rarely seem to get these soft ones. I’m convinced our players aren’t savvy enough in the box. Look at how vardy wins penalties, run past a defender, or cut across him and engineer contact. Sometimes won’t get them but never booked. It is a risk worth taking and one I wish our players would do more.
Who in this team is throwing themselves to the ground and rolling around under the slightest contact? (Ospina!)....not even Sanchez as he wants the ball he doesn’t want the free kick. Sadly we need to join them and force refs to make decisions.
I feel we are an easy team to make bad decisions against



Yes ...but hear yourself here Rich ...you are moaning about refs giving soft penalties and in the next breath advocating our players should get more savvy and do it too .

That's not the answer ...what these fairy floosed w****king players need to do is ......... stop cheating .


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Post #479737  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:02 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
3 match ban for Wenger.
.

Banned from the country would have been more appropriate

........ :26encouragement: but who cares just been out and bought a 350 Gen 2 Chevvy ..extractors runs like a top , good price , probably chuck the TBI away and convert it to 4 barrel carb .

Sounds like the this sucker .......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHpGxnS8yA.... Sugar my neighbours are in for a treat .


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Post #479738  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:17 am 
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I get videos like this on my FB feed a lot. My response is always the same .Why are you mad at Trump? He wasn't Senator Palpatine ala Star Wars fame who changed once he got power. He was a known commodity. Every country has a version of Trump but they don't bleeding make him the leader. Not even the small, developing , desperate countries. Anyone within that category got there by coup or some such similar means. Not by popular vote.

Americans don't won't to attribute the true blame. Because it would remove a narrative we have repeated to ourselves and to the world. This whole notion of 'Amercan exceptionalism'. 'World leader'. World cop. The fact is that we are primarily made up of xenophobic rubes who wouldn't know the state Georgia from the former Soviet republic of the same name.

This whole exceptionalism meme, which I've never uttered because I know my history and its as close to Nazi nationalism than I dare want to imagine, is probably the complete opposite. That vast region between New York and California is called 'fly over states' for a reason.

You reap what you sew and the reaping will rightfully include those that wear that MAGA red cap but unjustly include those who didn't want him or like him but are vulnerable to his actions. But in a larger sense we are to blame as a collective. The old saying about good people not doing anything or in our case enough. For even some Democratic voters to hold their nose and vote for him as millions did in the last election speaks volumes on how badly run and rudderless the Democratic party is. What should have been the easiest national election to win ever turned into their biggest shame and embarrassment.

You all across pond won't go unscathed either. If or when that crash happens, we'll drag our biggest trading partners with us close that abyss. Or worse yet, that old but proven ruse of some contrived war to take the focus off how bad a President is. Its been used to perfection in the past, so why change now?

https://www.facebook.com/Ali.AzharFateh ... ofyz3PB7HQ

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Post #479739  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:55 am 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
I get videos like this on my FB feed a lot. My response is always the same .Why are you mad at Trump? He wasn't Senator Palpatine ala Star Wars fame who changed once he got power. He was a known commodity. Every country has a version of Trump but they don't bleeding make him the leader. Not even the small, developing , desperate countries. Anyone within that category got there by coup or some such similar means. Not by popular vote.

Americans don't won't to attribute the true blame. Because it would remove a narrative we have repeated to ourselves and to the world. This whole notion of 'Amercan exceptionalism'. 'World leader'. World cop. The fact is that we are primarily made up of xenophobic rubes who wouldn't know the state Georgia from the former Soviet republic of the same name.

This whole exceptionalism meme, which I've never uttered because I know my history and its as close to Nazi nationalism than I dare want to imagine, is probably the complete opposite. That vast region between New York and California is called 'fly over states' for a reason.

You reap what you sew and the reaping will rightfully include those that wear that MAGA red cap but unjustly include those who didn't want him or like him but are vulnerable to his actions. But in a larger sense we are to blame as a collective. The old saying about good people not doing anything or in our case enough. For even some Democratic voters to hold their nose and vote for him as millions did in the last election speaks volumes on how badly run and rudderless the Democratic party is. What should have been the easiest national election to win ever turned into their biggest shame and embarrassment.

You all across pond won't go unscathed either. If or when that crash happens, we'll drag our biggest trading partners with us close that abyss. Or worse yet, that old but proven ruse of some contrived war to take the focus off how bad a President is. Its been used to perfection in the past, so why change now?

https://www.facebook.com/Ali.AzharFateh ... ofyz3PB7HQ



Yawn ..........stretch .............Well let's just hope the lucky half dozen you still have diplomatic relations with .......... are interested in American politics .


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Post #479740  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:36 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
3 match ban for Wenger.
.

Banned from the country would have been more appropriate

........ :26encouragement: but who cares just been out and bought a 350 Gen 2 Chevvy ..extractors runs like a top , good price , probably chuck the TBI away and convert it to 4 barrel carb .

Sounds like the this sucker .......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHpGxnS8yA.... Sugar my neighbours are in for a treat .

Jeez the kids will have to figure a good couple of weeks into cleanup when you go. I can hear them now 'what was he doing with all these unfinished projects and what do we do with them now.' Keep them guessing I say.

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Post #479741  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:22 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
kiwipete wrote:
Banned from the country would have been more appropriate

........ :26encouragement: but who cares just been out and bought a 350 Gen 2 Chevvy ..extractors runs like a top , good price , probably chuck the TBI away and convert it to 4 barrel carb .

Sounds like the this sucker .......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOHpGxnS8yA.... Sugar my neighbours are in for a treat .

Jeez the kids will have to figure a good couple of weeks into cleanup when you go. I can hear them now 'what was he doing with all these unfinished projects and what do we do with them now.' Keep them guessing I say.

:laughing7: The youngest son has been instrumental in me accumulating all this cr........ er ahhmmm treasure .

We'll flick the Pontiac 350 off as soon as I can get it running .

Got a bid in on a 4 barrel Edelbrock manifold ....... the junk just keeps on arriving

Other son who wanted the long line transporter ...after I'd accumulated wheels , axle , bearings , starter motor , chains , frame and belts ....... everything neccessary to do the job ..... suddenly decides he'll buy a quad bike to do the job .


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Post #479742  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:55 am 
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Gaz from Oz wrote:
3 match ban for Wenger.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 43866.html

This would also suggest that Wenger is being given a new system for management of the club and he appears not to like it. If I can read anything in to his comments he did not approve of the latest signing. While Wenger is there I bet he never plays for the club. What is interesting is we will sign an exceptional player in January.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/arsenal/story/ ... fer-set-up

Also in this article Wenger has prepared us for a shocking performance against Forrest. Sorry Arsene this is what you get paid a *%^@ load of money to do - motivate and prepare players.
"A Championship team is more difficult to play sometimes than a Premiership team coming out of the Christmas period. Because the Championship teams are prepared to fight for it, and the Premiership teams sometimes ease off a little bit when they play not to go down," he said.


Do we care if he objects, he's one for the future?

You're blinkers are stopping you seeing the truth. He's actually spot on in what he says. would you have preferred a team from the lower half of the Prem? I would have.


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Post #479743  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:00 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
bubblechris wrote:

Another apologist for refs. Look at it again he made no attemt to pull or push Lallana, the touch was very light and no foul was intended. .

I'm not apologising for anyone .... when I watched it , it seemed he put an arm out to stop Lallana and that's confirmed in the photo ... ... of course there was never enough there to make Lallana fall in a big heap like he did .

Jurgen reckons wasn't a penalty so I guess you were right ... Big tick next to your name .


It comes to something when people that know what they are talking about criticise the refs yet the FA take no notice.

Not to worry Kiwi you did exactly what some of the so called top refs do ie not look at the whole picture. I hope the video evidence works but fear they will make it so lumbersome it won't be taken up.


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Post #479744  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:31 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Rich wrote:
And yet we rarely seem to get these soft ones. I’m convinced our players aren’t savvy enough in the box. Look at how vardy wins penalties, run past a defender, or cut across him and engineer contact. Sometimes won’t get them but never booked. It is a risk worth taking and one I wish our players would do more.
Who in this team is throwing themselves to the ground and rolling around under the slightest contact? (Ospina!)....not even Sanchez as he wants the ball he doesn’t want the free kick. Sadly we need to join them and force refs to make decisions.
I feel we are an easy team to make bad decisions against



Yes ...but hear yourself here Rich ...you are moaning about refs giving soft penalties and in the next breath advocating our players should get more savvy and do it too .

That's not the answer ...what these fairy floosed w****king players need to do is ......... stop cheating .

I agree I’d much rather stop the cheating and the soft penalties, but I can’t see that happening anytime soon. So what is the point being the only choirboys amongst all the naughty kids when the naughty kids aren’t being punished? If no one is enforcing the rules then we need to adapt and give ourselves a better advantage.

Players don’t make it easy for refs but sometimes refs are their own worst enemy by, as a collective not being strict enough. What happened to the respect campaign, not surrounding refs, holding in the box etc....these things happen for a couple of weeks then they go back to normal because refs don’t enforce it


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Post #479745  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:53 am 
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I envy those of you who were around in Forest's hey day. They were winning titles and European championships, we were winning cups. I would guess if this tie was played 40 years ago, it would have been huge. For obvious reasons, I loved that name and Americans who take up the sport are bemused there is actually a club with that name. Images of late night movies starting Errol Flynn come to mind.

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Post #479746  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:57 am 
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kiwipete wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
Jeez the kids will have to figure a good couple of weeks into cleanup when you go. I can hear them now 'what was he doing with all these unfinished projects and what do we do with them now.' Keep them guessing I say.

:laughing7: The youngest son has been instrumental in me accumulating all this cr........ er ahhmmm treasure .

We'll flick the Pontiac 350 off as soon as I can get it running .

Got a bid in on a 4 barrel Edelbrock manifold ....... the junk just keeps on arriving

Other son who wanted the long line transporter ...after I'd accumulated wheels , axle , bearings , starter motor , chains , frame and belts ....... everything neccessary to do the job ..... suddenly decides he'll buy a quad bike to do the job .

I suppose its still illegal in NZ to choke the living shite out of him.

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Post #479747  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:01 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
Gaz from Oz wrote:
3 match ban for Wenger.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 43866.html

This would also suggest that Wenger is being given a new system for management of the club and he appears not to like it. If I can read anything in to his comments he did not approve of the latest signing. While Wenger is there I bet he never plays for the club. What is interesting is we will sign an exceptional player in January.
http://www.espnfc.com.au/arsenal/story/ ... fer-set-up

Also in this article Wenger has prepared us for a shocking performance against Forrest. Sorry Arsene this is what you get paid a *%^@ load of money to do - motivate and prepare players.
"A Championship team is more difficult to play sometimes than a Premiership team coming out of the Christmas period. Because the Championship teams are prepared to fight for it, and the Premiership teams sometimes ease off a little bit when they play not to go down," he said.


Do we care if he objects, he's one for the future?

You're blinkers are stopping you seeing the truth. He's actually spot on in what he says. would you have preferred a team from the lower half of the Prem? I would have.

1. You have assumed Wenger will go.
2. You miss my point. Wenger should be able to motivate the players. Our players should not 'ease off a little bit when they play.' In fact they should never be easing off no matter who they play. It is part of the problem.

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Post #479748  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:07 am 
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Rich wrote:
So what is the point being the only choirboys amongst all the naughty kids when the naughty kids aren’t being punished?


But we're not as Wilshere clearly shows. I've seen loads of Arsenal players fannying around in the box trying to get penalties. All players - by and large - do it.

And all teams get "soft" (I prefer debatable) penalties. The bigger ones probably get more but again this isn't necessarily direct bias. This idea that we are more sinned against than sinning lies principally in the minds of Arsenal fans.

I think there was a case for both pens recently actually. Bellerin stretches and kicks Hazard instead of the ball. This obsession with which part of his leg Hazard held going down seems totally overcooked to me - he can't hold the bottom of his boot very easily, he makes the most of it because he feels he has been fouled and wants the pen but I didn't see it as entirely fraudulent since he WAS kicked while competing for a ball he was likely to win.

Holgate did impede the Liverpool player but it was still harsh.

I totally accept that they were not nailed-on but calling them farcical or suggesting there is some weird conspiracy against us I just find really embarrassing, especially coming from our manager in his increasingly ludicrous tin-foil hat post-match statements. Also I wish people would stop saying that anybody arguing they were legitimate decisions is operating on the premiss that any contact is a foul (followed by the "football is a contact sport" corrective pronouncement). I don't. I have never said that.

The rules use phrases like intentional, reckless or excessive and it is that the refs have the difficult job of interpreting. Do you think they ENJOY having their decisions picked over and vilified? They get it both ways as well since NOT giving pens also earns them an unmerciful slagging and suggestions that they are bent from the likes of Mourinho and Wenger - easily the two worst offenders here. I think it's a bit pathetic but hopefully video will go some way to addressing this issue.


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Post #479749  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:25 am 
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Daz wrote:
Rich wrote:
So what is the point being the only choirboys amongst all the naughty kids when the naughty kids aren’t being punished?


But we're not as Wilshere clearly shows. I've seen loads of Arsenal players fannying around in the box trying to get penalties. All players - by and large - do it.

And all teams get "soft" (I prefer debatable) penalties. The bigger ones probably get more but again this isn't necessarily direct bias. This idea that we are more sinned against than sinning lies principally in the minds of Arsenal fans.

I think there was a case for both pens recently actually. Bellerin stretches and kicks Hazard instead of the ball. This obsession with which part of his leg Hazard held going down seems totally overcooked to me - he can't hold the bottom of his boot very easily, he makes the most of it because he feels he has been fouled and wants the pen but I didn't see it as entirely fraudulent since he WAS kicked while competing for a ball he was likely to win.

Holgate did impede the Liverpool player but it was still harsh.

I totally accept that they were not nailed-on but calling them farcical or suggesting there is some weird conspiracy against us I just find really embarrassing, especially coming from our manager in his increasingly ludicrous tin-foil hat post-match statements. Also I wish people would stop saying that anybody arguing they were legitimate decisions is operating on the premiss that any contact is a foul (followed by the "football is a contact sport" corrective pronouncement). I don't. I have never said that.

The rules use phrases like intentional, reckless or excessive and it is that the refs have the difficult job of interpreting. Do you think they ENJOY having their decisions picked over and vilified? They get it both ways as well since NOT giving pens also earns them an unmerciful slagging and suggestions that they are bent from the likes of Mourinho and Wenger - easily the two worst offenders here. I think it's a bit pathetic but hopefully video will go some way to addressing this issue.


With respect mate your views are about as questionable as AG's posts and are clearly tempered by the hatred you have for AW. That or you've clearly never played football.


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Post #479750  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:08 am 
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bubblechris wrote:
With respect mate your views are about as questionable as AG's posts and are clearly tempered by the hatred you have for AW. That or you've clearly never played football.


And with equal respect, mate, you do not have a single actual point to back that up with just more braying of the same opinion and an irrelevant insult.

1) Was there contact?

2) Do the rules (that's the actual rules not makey-uppy concepts in your head) use terms like reckless, intentional or excessive?

3) Is it the difficult job of refs to interpret that?

4) Do our players dive or simulate much less than other teams?

5) Is there a conspiracy against Arsenal, what is based on and how is it enforced?

6) Why did the biased media almost unanimously condemn the penalty against us at WBA while almost as unanimously conclude that the one against Chelsea was a legitimate call by the ref? (I'm afraid Tony Gale as a dissenting opinion doesn't quite cut it for me by the way).

Unless you want to address any of those points, it's just you mouthing off really.


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Post #479751  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:22 pm 
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Daz wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
With respect mate your views are about as questionable as AG's posts and are clearly tempered by the hatred you have for AW. That or you've clearly never played football.


And with equal respect, mate, you do not have a single actual point to back that up with just more braying of the same opinion and an irrelevant insult.

1) Was there contact?

2) Do the rules (that's the actual rules not makey-uppy concepts in your head) use terms like reckless, intentional or excessive?

3) Is it the difficult job of refs to interpret that?

4) Do our players dive or simulate much less than other teams?

5) Is there a conspiracy against Arsenal, what is based on and how is it enforced?

6) Why did the biased media almost unanimously condemn the penalty against us at WBA while almost as unanimously conclude that the one against Chelsea was a legitimate call by the ref? (I'm afraid Tony Gale as a dissenting opinion doesn't quite cut it for me by the way).

Unless you want to address any of those points, it's just you mouthing off really.


Respectfully I'd refer you to the Everton penalty that never was and the 100% criticism of it by a number of notable footballers who all condemned the overacting of Lallana.

It has to be cut out and refs have to sop believing everything they think they see. If they do not see it all they should not give it.

Trot on my friend...................


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Post #479752  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:29 pm 
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What do you think a debatable penalty against Everton adds to your argument?


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Post #479753  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:36 pm 
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In response to your belief that laying a hand on an opponent is not illegal nor is contact contact game ffs. Look at the exaggerated falls and consider that when say it is or is not a penalty.


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Post #479754  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:49 pm 
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I wasn’t aware that was my belief but it’s quite hard to tell - do me a favour and start using your fingers to type.


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Post #479755  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:13 pm 
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You mean this one .................. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/331577591291772547/


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Post #479756  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:33 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
It has to be cut out and refs have to sop believing everything they think they see. If they do not see it all they should not give it.

I think everyone agrees with this, refs should not give a penalty if they don't see a foul. But as Bellerin clearly did kick Hazard, and the ref was well positioned to see it, I don't understand what relevance it has to the discussion about Chelsea's penalty against us.


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Post #479757  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Yes they’re the ones.


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Post #479758  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
bubblechris wrote:
It has to be cut out and refs have to sop believing everything they think they see. If they do not see it all they should not give it.

I think everyone agrees with this, refs should not give a penalty if they don't see a foul. But as Bellerin clearly did kick Hazard, and the ref was well positioned to see it, I don't understand what relevance it has to the discussion about Chelsea's penalty against us.


Relevance. If I stick my finger on your nose that is GBH or is it ABH. Would you expect me to be charged and taken to Court?

If the FA can't take this into account when punishing the act then why do they take into account the level of violence when considering the difference between say contact and violent contact when deciding if the contact merited a yellow or a red card?


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Post #479759  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:29 pm 
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bubblechris wrote:
If I stick my finger on your nose that is GBH or is it ABH.


Actually it's neither.

Apart from that though this is a killer argument.

Why do you keep assuming that the ref did not clearly see what was also obvious on TV - namely, that Bellerin stretched, missed the ball and kicked Hazard instead?


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Post #479760  Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Being reported that Liverpool have got £142M for Coutinho. Or to put it another way, £70M plus Van Dijk.
That sounds like good business to me.


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