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Post #524401  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:07 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Without wishing to incur the wrath of the resident forum troll, I was wondering what was the point of giving Aubameyang 10 mins when he could have given Martinelli a little run-out. I genuinely have no idea why he chose to do that. Answers on a postcard.


This is a parody. This is not serious

You must be joking :14laughter:


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Post #524402  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:07 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Without wishing to incur the wrath of the resident forum troll, I was wondering what was the point of giving Aubameyang 10 mins when he could have given Martinelli a little run-out. I genuinely have no idea why he chose to do that. Answers on a postcard.


Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had. And it’s looking to pay off so that’s good, but it’s certainly cost us. I think Martinelli’s time must come surely, but I look at Nelson and Saliba and I honestly wonder.

He can be ruthless which we’ve wanted in managers, it’s just a head scratcher when he’s ruthless with players you rate and like, or players who are young and look like they could be really good.


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Post #524403  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:08 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
david.d wrote:
Utter utter tosh.
It seems the forum has been renamed the Top Gun Arsenal forum.
If you dont agree with his point of view then your opinion is utter gash


Well I’m sorry but your opinion is utter gash though :laughing7:

Great performance today despite your earlier fears

Btw your moment will come as Arteta will definitely get booted because our fans are trying to resemble the spurs fans attitudes from 15 years ago before they realised the issue,

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Post #524404  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:09 pm 
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I can certainly understand the frustration at times with either the manager or the club. We can seem like world beaters one match and relegation zone quality the next.

Games like this, which are to far and inbetween for my liking is a good feeling and we all hope it carries into the next game(s). It is no crime to question Arteta because of the inconsistency we are seeing. Willian had a great game but not consistent...there goes that word again. We can only hope he continues this form. Rich nailed it I think when he said Pépé seems a confidence player. Again, consistency, is needed.

We definitely need more players, but for the remainder of the season we have a good enough squad to be much better than our present place in the table. And who knows what could happen in the ECL.

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Post #524405  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:10 pm 
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david.d wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:

Well I’m sorry but your opinion is utter gash though :laughing7:

Great performance today despite your earlier fears

Btw your moment will come as Arteta will definitely get booted because our fans are trying to resemble the spurs fans attitudes from 15 years ago before they realised the issue,

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Post #524406  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:13 pm 
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Chelsea vs Man Utd? A draw is the best result probably. Hate both. Perhaps Man Utd a wee bit more.

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Post #524407  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Ash wrote:
socrates wrote:
Without wishing to incur the wrath of the resident forum troll, I was wondering what was the point of giving Aubameyang 10 mins when he could have given Martinelli a little run-out. I genuinely have no idea why he chose to do that. Answers on a postcard.


Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had. And it’s looking to pay off so that’s good, but it’s certainly cost us. I think Martinelli’s time must come surely, but I look at Nelson and Saliba and I honestly wonder.

He can be ruthless which we’ve wanted in managers, it’s just a head scratcher when he’s ruthless with players you rate and like, or players who are young and look like they could be really good.


Hi Ash,

I just thought it was an ideal time to give him a few minutes in his legs, he could certainly do with it if he might be needed over the next few games, whilst Aubameyang probably could have done without a 10 min cameo.

Nketiah was flavor of the month at one time and got plenty of minutes but now he's nowhere to be seen. Martinelli isn't even getting plenty of minutes.


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Post #524408  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:17 pm 
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Willian finally kicks on and has a great game and we have people moaning about the manager giving our captain 10 minutes instead of martinelli

Take a look at yourselves and get a grip :58big-emoticons:


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Post #524409  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:18 pm 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Willian finally kicks on and has a great game and we have people moaning about the manager giving our captain 10 minutes instead of martinelli

Take a look at yourselves and get a grip :58big-emoticons:


TOP GUN and David Brent.....separated at birth.


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Post #524410  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:21 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Ash wrote:

Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had. And it’s looking to pay off so that’s good, but it’s certainly cost us. I think Martinelli’s time must come surely, but I look at Nelson and Saliba and I honestly wonder.

He can be ruthless which we’ve wanted in managers, it’s just a head scratcher when he’s ruthless with players you rate and like, or players who are young and look like they could be really good.


Hi Ash,

I just thought it was an ideal time to give him a few minutes in his legs, he could certainly do with it if he might be needed over the next few games, whilst Aubameyang probably could have done without a 10 min cameo.


Absolutely, there have been a few times in the last few months where you think perfect to get him some minutes. The obvious conclusion is he isn’t bothered about getting him those minutes. In his defence I think there’s been an element of firefighting and stuff like developing players having patience etc could fall by the wayside. Aubameyang is his bread and butter and he’s keeping him sweet. Basically short termism.


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Post #524411  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:23 pm 
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socrates wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Willian finally kicks on and has a great game and we have people moaning about the manager giving our captain 10 minutes instead of martinelli

Take a look at yourselves and get a grip :58big-emoticons:


TOP GUN and David Brent.....separated at birth.

Your twinned with Matt Hancock and Liz truss :58big-emoticons:


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Post #524412  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:33 pm 
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Willian played well on the left, Pépé played well on the right. Good job Arteta does this not me because I would have 100% played them the other way round.

Pépé does so much better when he has a natural over-lapping full-back. Must be a pretty thankless task overlapping Pépé so he can cut inside and cause problems but that is exactly what you need from your full-back. Lots of selfless running and support up and down the pitch.


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Post #524413  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:35 pm 
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AmericanGooner wrote:
Chelsea vs Man Utd? A draw is the best result probably. Hate both. Perhaps Man Utd a wee bit more.

We're 6 points behind Chelsea and 12 behind Man U - with our outside chance of European football we have to want a certain amount of the teams at the top to keep winning so we stand a chance of catching the ones just above us.


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Post #524414  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:38 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Willian played well on the left, Pépé played well on the right. Good job Arteta does this not me because I would have 100% played them the other way round.

Was thinking the same thing at the start of the game. Willian linked up quite well with Tierney when he came on against Benfica, so maybe Arteta thought it best to let them continue working on that partnership?


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Post #524415  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:39 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Ash wrote:

Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had. And it’s looking to pay off so that’s good, but it’s certainly cost us. I think Martinelli’s time must come surely, but I look at Nelson and Saliba and I honestly wonder.

He can be ruthless which we’ve wanted in managers, it’s just a head scratcher when he’s ruthless with players you rate and like, or players who are young and look like they could be really good.


Hi Ash,

I just thought it was an ideal time to give him a few minutes in his legs, he could certainly do with it if he might be needed over the next few games, whilst Aubameyang probably could have done without a 10 min cameo.

Nketiah was flavor of the month at one time and got plenty of minutes but now he's nowhere to be seen. Martinelli isn't even getting plenty of minutes.

I would also like to see Martinelli given a run. However, all of the other forwards are fit, and I think at least some credit should go to Arteta for managing to keep them all on the boil. I was very happy to see Pépé, Lacazette, and Willian start today. All look on form and keen to contribute to the team effort. I'm pretty sure that Martinelli will get his chance.

Also we're not playing again until next week, so giving Aubameyang 10 minute to give Lacazette a well deserved rest doesn't quite rise to the level of a hanging offence, in my view. I will defer on this point to Bernard, who knows more about capital punishment.

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Post #524416  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:56 pm 
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Ash wrote:
socrates wrote:
Without wishing to incur the wrath of the resident forum troll, I was wondering what was the point of giving Aubameyang 10 mins when he could have given Martinelli a little run-out. I genuinely have no idea why he chose to do that. Answers on a postcard.


Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had.

That is a bit sour.

Young players who look like they could be great ... I've noticed that people seldom eat humble pie when the young players they advocate don't turn out so great. Ntekiah and Willock to name two.

On the other hand, I can understand why Arteta feels its worth persisting with a player of proven class like Willian.

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Post #524417  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
Emile Smith Rowe was forced out of the game through injury.

And Arteta added: "It was a muscular injury, he wasn't feeling very comfortable to carry on playing so we have decided to take him out.

"Hopefully it is not too [serious] much."


https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... ier-League


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Post #524418  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:07 pm 
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Willock has had a few good performances since going to Newcastle. I'm not convinced he can make it in our team but in a team like Newcastle it sort of suits his game a bit. Tireless work off the ball and being that support runner for a lone striker arriving in the box at key moments. If he is to leave in the summer I expect a few lower half Prem clubs will be looking to sign him and I think we should be looking for £15-20m


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Post #524419  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:09 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
socrates wrote:

Hi Ash,

I just thought it was an ideal time to give him a few minutes in his legs, he could certainly do with it if he might be needed over the next few games, whilst Aubameyang probably could have done without a 10 min cameo.

Nketiah was flavor of the month at one time and got plenty of minutes but now he's nowhere to be seen. Martinelli isn't even getting plenty of minutes.

I would also like to see Martinelli given a run. However, all of the other forwards are fit, and I think at least some credit should go to Arteta for managing to keep them all on the boil. I was very happy to see Pépé, Lacazette, and Willian start today. All look on form and keen to contribute to the team effort. I'm pretty sure that Martinelli will get his chance.

Also we're not playing again until next week, so giving Aubameyang 10 minute to give Lacazette a well deserved rest doesn't quite rise to the level of a hanging offence, in my view. I will defer on this point to Bernard, who knows more about capital punishment.


Hi Decaf,

The substitution itself was not the issue, 3-1 up just seemed like the perfect time to give Martinelli some playing time if there ever was going to be a perfect time.

I would have thought it would have been of more use to have given Nelli 20 mins rather than give Aubameyang 10 mins, which he doesn't need.


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Post #524420  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:10 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Ash wrote:

Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had.

That is a bit sour.

Young players who look like they could be great ... I've noticed that people seldom eat humble pie when the young players they advocate don't turn out so great. Ntekiah and Willock to name two.

On the other hand, I can understand why Arteta feels its worth persisting with a player of proven class like Willian.

I can remember thinking that Bendtner was going to be the next Alan Shearer.

(Mind you, so did he).

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Post #524421  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:14 pm 
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Rich wrote:
AmericanGooner wrote:
Chelsea vs Man Utd? A draw is the best result probably. Hate both. Perhaps Man Utd a wee bit more.

We're 6 points behind Chelsea and 12 behind Man U - with our outside chance of European football we have to want a certain amount of the teams at the top to keep winning so we stand a chance of catching the ones just above us.

I see what you're saying, I understand the logic...but growing up in the 90s with seemingly everyone around me supporting Man Utd, it's hard for me to not want to see them lose every game they're playing. A draw would do nicely today though, I guess.


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Post #524422  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:22 pm 
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Such is the bunched up nature of 4th-10th, every defeat feels like you can write off top 4 and even european chances whilst every win has you optimistically looking up the league again.

12 games to go and we're 8 points off 4th place - just using that as a barometer not saying we can finish 4th. With the up and down nature of our team this is unrealistic but perform like today and we should be aiming for somewhere like 25-28 points from the 36 available. That would take us to 62-65 points and I'm sure that would be good enough for european football next season. Our run in isn't the worst I could pick 8 games we should win burnley (a), sheff utd (a), fulham (h), everton (h), newcastle (a), west brom (h), palace (a), brighton (h). Play like we did today and we will win those 8.


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Post #524423  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:24 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Hi Decaf,

The substitution itself was not the issue, 3-1 up just seemed like the perfect time to give Martinelli some playing time if there ever was going to be a perfect time.

I would have thought it would have been of more use to have given Nelli 20 mins rather than give Aubameyang 10 mins, which he doesn't need.

I think we all want to see more of Martinelli, such an exciting young player. But Arteta has given him some chances since he came back, started him against Man Utd with Willian available. I think we just need to be patient, judging by Arteta's post-game comments he does rate the player:

'Well, he needs to keep working and making it difficult for us. He is a player that is going to give us a lot, but we need some time to find the right games for him and the right connections with him on the pitch so that he can do what he does best. But the way he is and the way he trains every day, he is going to be a really important player for us, no doubt. But when you have many options, it is difficult when you look for certain qualities in certain games.'


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Post #524424  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:25 pm 
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Hazuki wrote:
Rich wrote:
We're 6 points behind Chelsea and 12 behind Man U - with our outside chance of European football we have to want a certain amount of the teams at the top to keep winning so we stand a chance of catching the ones just above us.

I see what you're saying, I understand the logic...but growing up in the 90s with seemingly everyone around me supporting Man Utd, it's hard for me to not want to see them lose every game they're playing. A draw would do nicely today though, I guess.

Yeah, a draw is fine - there is something nice about picking up 2 points on both teams - but we're never going to catch Man U. We might just catch Chelsea.
I'd take a draw with a few red cards and injuries. Not to wish injury on a player but a long term one to Bruno Fernandes would be very interesting.
Spurs get Kane injured and their form drops off a cliff
Liverpool get Van Dijk injured and their form drops off a cliff

City and Chelsea have huge squads and don't seem to have that single talisman that everything goes through. Man U are different though - Bruno is right up there for player of the season - his record is incredible. At the moment Dias at City pips him but only because City will probably win the league


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Post #524425  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:35 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Ash wrote:

Part of it at least for me is that Martinelli isn’t Arteta’s signing. If Arteta hadn’t signed Willian I don’t think he would have persevered with him half as much as he had.

That is a bit sour.

Young players who look like they could be great ... I've noticed that people seldom eat humble pie when the young players they advocate don't turn out so great. Ntekiah and Willock to name two.

On the other hand, I can understand why Arteta feels its worth persisting with a player of proven class like Willian.


I don’t think so. And I did say part of it not all of it. It’s true of all managers with players they sign and don’t sign. I’m trying to remember but did not Martinelli’s more electrifying moments come before Arteta arrived? And He wasn’t doing this in the u23s. He’s made it as far as I’m concerned certainly in terms of his basic value to the team, “great” clearly isn’t the bar looking at certain players performances over the past 6-9 months.


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Post #524426  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:42 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Such is the bunched up nature of 4th-10th, every defeat feels like you can write off top 4 and even european chances whilst every win has you optimistically looking up the league again.

12 games to go and we're 8 points off 4th place - just using that as a barometer not saying we can finish 4th. With the up and down nature of our team this is unrealistic but perform like today and we should be aiming for somewhere like 25-28 points from the 36 available. That would take us to 62-65 points and I'm sure that would be good enough for european football next season. Our run in isn't the worst I could pick 8 games we should win burnley (a), sheff utd (a), fulham (h), everton (h), newcastle (a), west brom (h), palace (a), brighton (h). Play like we did today and we will win those 8.

I just don't see fourth happening. Chelsea are picking up and I'm sure Liverpool will too.

Fifth or sixth of the other hand ... Leicester look to be in trouble with injuries and the hammers are likely to fade. Spurs finally making the most of Bale is a concern though.

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Post #524427  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:49 pm 
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socrates wrote:
Decaf wrote:
I would also like to see Martinelli given a run. However, all of the other forwards are fit, and I think at least some credit should go to Arteta for managing to keep them all on the boil. I was very happy to see Pépé, Lacazette, and Willian start today. All look on form and keen to contribute to the team effort. I'm pretty sure that Martinelli will get his chance.

Also we're not playing again until next week, so giving Aubameyang 10 minute to give Lacazette a well deserved rest doesn't quite rise to the level of a hanging offence, in my view. I will defer on this point to Bernard, who knows more about capital punishment.


Hi Decaf,

The substitution itself was not the issue, 3-1 up just seemed like the perfect time to give Martinelli some playing time if there ever was going to be a perfect time.

I would have thought it would have been of more use to have given Nelli 20 mins rather than give Aubameyang 10 mins, which he doesn't need.

I don't disagree with that.

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Post #524428  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:44 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Also we're not playing again until next week, so giving Aubameyang 10 minute to give Lacazette a well deserved rest doesn't quite rise to the level of a hanging offence, in my view. I will defer on this point to Bernard, who knows more about capital punishment.
:53big-emoticons: :53big-emoticons:

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Post #524429  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:31 pm 
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Well that was a good all round performance. The fact Leicester were not defensive helped us.

On another issue - I thought VAR worked properly for a change. That is what it should be like.

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Post #524430  Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:30 pm 
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Decaf wrote:
Abu wrote:

*%^@

"Choosing to ignore things" is a policy that should be used judiciously at best. It's healthy to chose to ignore some unpleasant things: for example, neighbour's barking dog, a snoring spouse, that someone has broken wind at a funeral, Donald Trump Jr, Jose Mourinho.

Ignoring all aspects of reality that causes the least cognitive dissonance, is another matter entirely.

AG,
Well being you did say Arsenal had never been relegated, did prompt me to post the "history" lesson.
That's your choice to choose ignore a 1913 reality. Also, my post was in response to another poster's suggestion for anyone to say Arsenal had been relegated.

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Post #524431  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:14 am 
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In the VAR review for the Man U penalty yesterday there were a number of Man U and Chelsea players only a few yards behind the referee as he watched the replays on his pitchside monitor. This is not allowed in the rules. Both sets of players should have been moved away by one of the officials and then yellow carded if they didn't.

I see Man U are whinging that an article on the Chelsea website before the game influenced the referee - the website basically said Maguire was lucky not to concede a penalty when the two teams last played each other, which is absolutely true and of course very partisan as a club official website is going to be - does Ole really think that a) the ref read that article and if he did b) was therefore influenced by it to not give a handball against Hudson-Odoi?

Luke Shaw also complained saying the ref told Maguire he can't give the penalty because it would cause too much controversy. I think Man U and their fans have taken that to mean it would cause controversy because everyone already thinks Man U get too many penalties - whereas the more logical explanation if that is what the ref said would be that he doesn't think it is a penalty so it would be controversial to give it.


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Post #524432  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:19 am 
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Since Arteta bought Smith Rowe in to the side at home to Chelsea Arsenal are 3rd in the form table, behind City who have 12 wins from 12 and also behind West Ham by a point.

First 13 games of the season - 14 points
Second 13 games of the season - 23 points

The last 13 games extrapolates in to 73 points across the season. Good enough for top 4.


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Post #524433  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:10 am 
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Rich wrote:
Since Arteta bought Smith Rowe in to the side at home to Chelsea Arsenal are 3rd in the form table, behind City who have 12 wins from 12 and also behind West Ham by a point.

First 13 games of the season - 14 points
Second 13 games of the season - 23 points

The last 13 games extrapolates in to 73 points across the season. Good enough for top 4.


So we are factually heading in the right direction. 2 or 3 new players in the right areas may allow us to push on next year.

Inconsequential details about the timing of substitutions and the like are an irrelevance.


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Post #524434  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:25 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Inconsequential details about the timing of substitutions and the like are an irrelevance.

Or details about whether our central midfielders passes the ball forward at a high enough rate?


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Post #524435  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:28 am 
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Hazuki wrote:
TOP GUN wrote:
Inconsequential details about the timing of substitutions and the like are an irrelevance.

Or details about whether our central midfielders passes the ball forward at a high enough rate?

No that’s pretty consequential


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Post #524436  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:33 am 
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TOP GUN wrote:
Hazuki wrote:
Or details about whether our central midfielders passes the ball forward at a high enough rate?

No that’s pretty consequential

Well, apparently we're making progress anyway.


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Post #524437  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:51 am 
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... s-23583442

There is Piers Morgan, who is quick to judge and rant. And then there is Piers Morgan, who is man enough to immediately apologise and admit he was wrong to judge too strongly.

Respect to him, to dare to judge without fear of being shot down from those differing his views. And respect to him for quickly admitting when he knows he was wrong.

We are all humans
We are all with our own egos
We all have opinions
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We love to be right, and know when we are wrong
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Post #524438  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:14 am 
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Rich wrote:
Since Arteta bought Smith Rowe in to the side at home to Chelsea Arsenal are 3rd in the form table, behind City who have 12 wins from 12 and also behind West Ham by a point.

First 13 games of the season - 14 points
Second 13 games of the season - 23 points

The last 13 games extrapolates in to 73 points across the season. Good enough for top 4.

It might be worth noting that four of those first 13 games were away to members of the Big Six, which was always likely to make our start to the season look disproportionately bad.

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Post #524439  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:40 am 
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Interesting graphs to show the times in games when we score and concede.
It seems to struggle to score early or late and conversely tend to concede early or late and also that horrible period just before half time.

Things to improve:
Concentration to not concede at these 3 vital points in games
Motivation to hit the ground running in games and get earlier goals
Fitness levels to keep going late on in games


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Post #524440  Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:45 am 
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mcquilkie wrote:
Rich wrote:
Since Arteta bought Smith Rowe in to the side at home to Chelsea Arsenal are 3rd in the form table, behind City who have 12 wins from 12 and also behind West Ham by a point.

First 13 games of the season - 14 points
Second 13 games of the season - 23 points

The last 13 games extrapolates in to 73 points across the season. Good enough for top 4.

It might be worth noting that four of those first 13 games were away to members of the Big Six, which was always likely to make our start to the season look disproportionately bad.

True, although this is any season has far less reliance on home-away bias for teams. In fact our away record is better than our home record this year.
The 4 big 6 games we played in the first 13 we picked up 3 points away to Man U (lost to liverpool, spurs and city). Since then we've played 3 top 6 games and picked up 4 points at home to chelsea and home to man U (loss to City) So I don't think there is too much weight to be added to the quirk of the fixtures.

Of course lets see where we are after 38 games if we want true half season analysis and improvement, but for me the performances now and then are so different even in games we are losing now.


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